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ChaseKenyon
11-08-2011, 06:19 AM
I know someone, a very nice down to earth person who when I was a kid, and mom was running his NW CT campaign, took the time to talk to this kid and asked me what things I liked. Since I knew who he was I told him I really like dad's helicopters (Kaman Huski) because they could go straight up from parked like an elevater you can see out of. Brother Craig knows his brother and says the whole family is down to earth and unpretentious that way.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/374307_10100503260803144_3320023_57026460_11139135 08_n.jpg



I think this spells out the problem we are facing fairly clearly.

And this can not be ignored even if it is not precisely accurate it covers the whole cloth of it fairly well.

Since the GOP win in the year twenty and ten.......................

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/315551_250834048297763_132284120152757_687011_2101 329262_n.jpg

ChaseKenyon
11-08-2011, 06:28 AM
and

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/298521_250659398317113_200068713376182_657290_2968 32231_n.jpg

James McMullen
11-08-2011, 09:54 AM
Alas, Chase, I think you are absolutely right. The Christian theocrats have totally run away with and hijacked the Republican party, and that is one reason I doubt I will ever again vote for any self-identified Republican for any office whatsoever. I fear it may well be too late, regardless.

David W Pratt
11-08-2011, 11:35 AM
After LBJ won the joke was, they told me if I voted for Goldwater we'd have 1,000,000,000 men in Viet Nam. I did, and we do.

Nicholas Carey
11-08-2011, 01:11 PM
Senator Goldwater said that in November 1994, according to John Dean in his 2006 book Conservatives Without Conscience (http://www.amazon.com/Conservatives-Without-Conscience-John-Dean/dp/0670037745). Some more of "Mr. Conservative" on the Christian Right (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/11/02/barry-goldwater-true-conservative/):



"On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God’s name on one’s behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.

I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?

And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."

Goldwater refused to march lockstep with the Christian Right as conservatives do today. The Republican Party of today has surrendered to the Christian Right and ignore the real issues facing the country as a result. Goldwater knew how dangerous this is.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."

Goldwater was a strong supporter of separation of church and state and was a passionate advocate for religious freedom. He would not support the Christian Right’s crusade against non-Christian religions.

"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives."

TANSTAF1
11-08-2011, 02:13 PM
Here's some info on bills to help in job creation and the status so you may get the false record cited above corrected:

Empower Small Business Owners
Small business owners are being bogged down by burdensome regulations from Washington that prevent job creation and hinder economic growth. We must remove onerous regulations that are redundant, harm small businesses, and impede private sector investment and job creation.

Review of Federal Regulations
H.Res. 72 - Passed by the House (391-28) on February 11, 2011


The Reducing Regulatory Burdens Act
H.R. 872 - Senate has taken no action to date



The Energy Tax Prevention Act
H.R. 910 - Senate has taken no action to date



Disapproval of FCC's Net Neutrality Regulations
H.J.Res. 37 - Senate has taken no action to date



The Clean Water Cooperative Federalism Act
H.R. 2018 - Senate has taken no action to date



Consumer Financial Protection & Soundness Improvement Act
H.R. 1315 - Senate has taken no action to date



Protecting Jobs From Government Interference Act
H.R. 2587 - Senate has taken no action to date



Transparency In Regulatory Analysis Of Impacts On The Nation
H.R. 2401 - Senate has taken no action to date



Cement Sector Regulatory Relief Act
H.R. 2681 - Senate has taken no action to date



EPA Regulatory Relief Act
H.R. 2250 - Senate has taken no action to date



Coal Residuals Reuse and Management Act
H.R. 2273 - Senate has taken no action to date




Fix The Tax Code To Help Job Creators
America’s tax code has grown too complicated and cumbersome. We need a tax code that is flatter, fairer, and simpler to ensure that everyone pays their fair share, lessen the burden on families, generate economic expansion, and create jobs by making America more competitive.

The Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act
H.R. 4 - Signed into law by the President on April 14, 2011


3% Withholding Rule Repeal
H.R. 674 - Senate has taken no action to date





Increase Competitiveness for U.S. Manufacturers
The more that American businesses export, the more they produce. The more businesses produce, the more workers they need. This means job creation. Expanding market access for U.S. made products will be a shot in the arm for businesses small and large and will create jobs.

U.S.-Colombia Trade Promotion Agreement Implementation Act
H.R. 3078 - Signed by the Preisdent on October 21, 2011


U.S.-Panama Trade Promotion Agreement Implementation Act
H.R. 3079 - Signed by the Preisdent on October 21, 2011


U.S.-Korea Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
H.R. 3080 - Signed by the Preisdent on October 21, 2011


Southeast Arizona Resource Utilization & Conservation Act
H.R. 1904 - Senate has taken no action to date






Encourage Entrepreneurship and Growth
America has historically been on the cutting edge of innovation and technological development, but we are increasingly falling behind our global competitors. We must make it easier for existing businesses to grow and allow more start-up companies to flourish.

The America Invents Act
H.R. 1249 - Signed into law by the President on September 16, 2011


Veterans Opportunity to Work Act
H.R. 2433 - Senate has taken no action to date



Small Company Capital Formation Act
H.R. 1070 - Senate has taken no action to date



Community Bank Resource Improvement Act
H.R. 1965 - Senate has taken no action to date



Entrepreneur Access to Capital Act
H.R. 2930 - Senate has taken no action to date



Access to Capital for Job Creators Act
H.R. 2940 - Senate has taken no action to date





Maximize Domestic Energy Production
The energy sector is crucial to our economic growth, and high energy costs have a major impact on job creation. We need policies that allow us to harness our abundant supply of natural resources in America, develop new sources of energy, and create jobs here at home.

Restarting American Offshore Leasing Now Act
H.R. 1230 - Senate has taken no action to date



Putting the Gulf of Mexico Back to Work Act
H.R. 1229 - Senate has taken no action to date



Reversing President Obama’s Offshore Moratorium Act
H.R. 1231 - Senate has taken no action to date



The Jobs and Energy Permitting Act of 2011
H.R. 2021 - Senate has taken no action to date



North American-Made Energy Security Act
H.R. 1938 - Senate has taken no action to date





Pay Down America's Unsustainable Debt Burden
The federal government is spending and borrowing so much that the United States will soon go broke. Washington’s spending binge has put our nation in debt, eroded economic confidence, and caused massive uncertainty for private sector job creators. It's time to live within our means.

Budget for Fiscal Year 2012
H.Con.Res. 34 - Senate has not yet considered a budget of its own

skuthorp
11-08-2011, 02:26 PM
Interesting, half the US political sphere devolving to a theocracy, OBL wins again. He's doing well lately.

ccmanuals
11-08-2011, 02:30 PM
Here's some info on bills to help in job creation and the status so you may get the false record cited above corrected:

Empower Small Business Owners
Small business owners are being bogged down by burdensome regulations from Washington that prevent job creation and hinder economic growth. We must remove onerous regulations that are redundant, harm small businesses, and impede private sector investment and job creation.

Review of Federal Regulations
H.Res. 72 - Passed by the House (391-28) on February 11, 2011


The Reducing Regulatory Burdens Act
H.R. 872 - Senate has taken no action to date



The Energy Tax Prevention Act
H.R. 910 - Senate has taken no action to date



Disapproval of FCC's Net Neutrality Regulations
H.J.Res. 37 - Senate has taken no action to date



The Clean Water Cooperative Federalism Act
H.R. 2018 - Senate has taken no action to date



Consumer Financial Protection & Soundness Improvement Act
H.R. 1315 - Senate has taken no action to date



Protecting Jobs From Government Interference Act
H.R. 2587 - Senate has taken no action to date



Transparency In Regulatory Analysis Of Impacts On The Nation
H.R. 2401 - Senate has taken no action to date



Cement Sector Regulatory Relief Act
H.R. 2681 - Senate has taken no action to date



EPA Regulatory Relief Act
H.R. 2250 - Senate has taken no action to date



Coal Residuals Reuse and Management Act
H.R. 2273 - Senate has taken no action to date




Fix The Tax Code To Help Job Creators
America’s tax code has grown too complicated and cumbersome. We need a tax code that is flatter, fairer, and simpler to ensure that everyone pays their fair share, lessen the burden on families, generate economic expansion, and create jobs by making America more competitive.

The Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act
H.R. 4 - Signed into law by the President on April 14, 2011


3% Withholding Rule Repeal
H.R. 674 - Senate has taken no action to date





Increase Competitiveness for U.S. Manufacturers
The more that American businesses export, the more they produce. The more businesses produce, the more workers they need. This means job creation. Expanding market access for U.S. made products will be a shot in the arm for businesses small and large and will create jobs.

U.S.-Colombia Trade Promotion Agreement Implementation Act
H.R. 3078 - Signed by the Preisdent on October 21, 2011


U.S.-Panama Trade Promotion Agreement Implementation Act
H.R. 3079 - Signed by the Preisdent on October 21, 2011


U.S.-Korea Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
H.R. 3080 - Signed by the Preisdent on October 21, 2011


Southeast Arizona Resource Utilization & Conservation Act
H.R. 1904 - Senate has taken no action to date






Encourage Entrepreneurship and Growth
America has historically been on the cutting edge of innovation and technological development, but we are increasingly falling behind our global competitors. We must make it easier for existing businesses to grow and allow more start-up companies to flourish.

The America Invents Act
H.R. 1249 - Signed into law by the President on September 16, 2011


Veterans Opportunity to Work Act
H.R. 2433 - Senate has taken no action to date



Small Company Capital Formation Act
H.R. 1070 - Senate has taken no action to date



Community Bank Resource Improvement Act
H.R. 1965 - Senate has taken no action to date



Entrepreneur Access to Capital Act
H.R. 2930 - Senate has taken no action to date



Access to Capital for Job Creators Act
H.R. 2940 - Senate has taken no action to date





Maximize Domestic Energy Production
The energy sector is crucial to our economic growth, and high energy costs have a major impact on job creation. We need policies that allow us to harness our abundant supply of natural resources in America, develop new sources of energy, and create jobs here at home.

Restarting American Offshore Leasing Now Act
H.R. 1230 - Senate has taken no action to date



Putting the Gulf of Mexico Back to Work Act
H.R. 1229 - Senate has taken no action to date



Reversing President Obama’s Offshore Moratorium Act
H.R. 1231 - Senate has taken no action to date



The Jobs and Energy Permitting Act of 2011
H.R. 2021 - Senate has taken no action to date



North American-Made Energy Security Act
H.R. 1938 - Senate has taken no action to date





Pay Down America's Unsustainable Debt Burden
The federal government is spending and borrowing so much that the United States will soon go broke. Washington’s spending binge has put our nation in debt, eroded economic confidence, and caused massive uncertainty for private sector job creators. It's time to live within our means.

Budget for Fiscal Year 2012
H.Con.Res. 34 - Senate has not yet considered a budget of its own

Congress is way to busy debating laws dealing with women's health issues, abortion, NPR, and of course the all important in God we Trust motto to deal with this type of trivial stuff.

TANSTAF1
11-08-2011, 02:33 PM
Congress is way to busy debating laws dealing with women's health issues, abortion, NPR, and of course the all important in God we Trust motto to deal with this type of trivial stuff.

It may not be evident from what I posted as I could not do a full C&P, but all the ones with the comment "Senate has taken no action to date" means it's passed the House. So when you say Cognress is too busy, you really are referring to Harry Reid's Senate. The House has done a great job.

John Smith
11-08-2011, 02:34 PM
Alas, Chase, I think you are absolutely right. The Christian theocrats have totally run away with and hijacked the Republican party, and that is one reason I doubt I will ever again vote for any self-identified Republican for any office whatsoever. I fear it may well be too late, regardless.
It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for another Republican.

Today's vote in Ohio may show us how that "tide" is doing.

S.V. Airlie
11-08-2011, 02:37 PM
Fine with me John. I can understand why some people follow the lead ram in the flock. I will still and always vote for the person not the party mantra. And I don't care whose party he represents.I can not vote for a dem or a republican just because. More to it than that.

pefjr
11-08-2011, 02:38 PM
Alas, Chase, I think you are absolutely right. The Christian theocrats have totally run away with and hijacked the Republican party, and that is one reason I doubt I will ever again vote for any self-identified Republican for any office whatsoever. I fear it may well be too late, regardless.BS, did you two miss the vote on the motto? 396-9. There ain't that many Repubs in Congress. Listen carefully to his exit line next time Obama talks to the nation.

ccmanuals
11-08-2011, 02:40 PM
I think the rest of the country probably disagrees with you on the job that the House is doing.

John Smith
11-08-2011, 02:46 PM
Fine with me John. I can understand why some people follow the lead ram in the flock. I will still and always vote for the person not the party mantra. And I don't care whose party he represents.

I used to think that way, but today's republicans are different from republicans past. They continue to boast about being better for both defense and finances, but this side of WWII, history proves neither is true. Pretty much everything the Republicans have told us about the health care reform bill has turned out to be patently false. Very damned few of them were willing to openly admit Obama was born here. In states where they are in control, contracts for public employees are there to be broken, but the CEO's had to get their bonuses, as they had contracts. Some states are voting today on anti-abortion laws that will actually make most birth control illegal. Republicans have been passing laws in states they control to make it harder for minorities and the elderly to vote.

Anyone who alligns himself with that party is not to be trusted. They ran on "jobs", but the chart above shows what they've done.

pefjr
11-08-2011, 02:48 PM
In a speech touting his $447 billion American Jobs Act in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday, Obama jabbed, "I trust in God, but God wants to see us help ourselves by putting people back to work."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/president-obama-slams-gop-decision-vote-god-trust-motto-job-creation-bill-article-1.971640#ixzz1d95uVGER

Obama can even tell us what god wants.

wardd
11-08-2011, 02:50 PM
gun nuts, social zealots and wealthy tax cut nuts

each is not too adversely affected by the other two, so they have formed an alliance

S.V. Airlie
11-08-2011, 02:52 PM
I used to think that way, but today's republicans are different from republicans past. They continue to boast about being better for both defense and finances, but this side of WWII, history proves neither is true. Pretty much everything the Republicans have told us about the health care reform bill has turned out to be patently false. Very damned few of them were willing to openly admit Obama was born here. In states where they are in control, contracts for public employees are there to be broken, but the CEO's had to get their bonuses, as they had contracts. Some states are voting today on anti-abortion laws that will actually make most birth control illegal. Republicans have been passing laws in states they control to make it harder for minorities and the elderly to vote.

Anyone who alligns himself with that party is not to be trusted. They ran on "jobs", but the chart above shows what they've done.Funny that I think overall, the dems are the same way.

pefjr
11-08-2011, 03:32 PM
I used to think that way, but today's republicans are different from republicans past. They continue to boast about being better for both defense and finances, but this side of WWII, history proves neither is true. Pretty much everything the Republicans have told us about the health care reform bill has turned out to be patently false. Very damned few of them were willing to openly admit Obama was born here. In states where they are in control, contracts for public employees are there to be broken, but the CEO's had to get their bonuses, as they had contracts. Some states are voting today on anti-abortion laws that will actually make most birth control illegal. Republicans have been passing laws in states they control to make it harder for minorities and the elderly to vote.

Anyone who alligns himself with that party is not to be trusted. They ran on "jobs", but the chart above shows what they've done.Where are my boots?

htom
11-08-2011, 03:46 PM
The "Christian Statists"; the Democrats are run by the "Anti-Christian Statists". That is, the Statist Party.

TANSTAF1
11-08-2011, 03:52 PM
You're just looking for your boots now? Now????!!!! I've had mine on for a long time.

Mrleft8
11-08-2011, 03:55 PM
The flock follows the Bellwether.... Which, of course, is castrated. One can tell where the flock is headed by listening for the bell. Right now, I'd say the flock is headed into a deep, dark morass.

pefjr
11-08-2011, 04:27 PM
You're just looking for your boots now? Now????!!!! I've had mine on for a long time.Well, you are right, anytime John Smith is in the bilge I should put my boots on. Where does he get this BS?


Very damned few of them(Repubs)were willing to openly admit Obama was born here.Where are the numbers? Links and verification? John, this is so old and mildewy, jeez ....


In states where they are in control, contracts for public employees are there to be broken, but the CEO's had to get their bonuses, as they had contracts.What states are they in control of? And what and what is this breach of contract? Do they have any Dem lawyers there that need a job?


Some states are voting today on anti-abortion laws that will actually make most birth control illegal.You mean those states(what states John?) can override the SCOTUS? and what does it have to do with most birth control and the legality of uh say.... the morning after pill?


Republicans have been passing laws in states they control to make it harder for minorities and the elderly to vote.Again a ridiculous claim. I'm shaking my head John.


Anyone who alligns himself with that party is not to be trusted.Is this a "rally the troops" John?

ChaseKenyon
11-08-2011, 05:48 PM
Here's some info on bills to help in job creation and the status so you may get the false record cited above corrected:








Lets take just the one in red that I randomly picked.


H.R.2940 -- Access to Capital for Job Creators Act (Reported in House - RH)


HR 2940 RH




Union Calendar No. 176112th CONGRESS1st SessionH. R. 2940[Report No. 112-263]


[Report No. 112-263]
To direct the Securities and Exchange Commission to eliminate the prohibition against general solicitation as a requirement for a certain exemption under Regulation D.




IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVESSeptember 15, 2011


Mr. MCCARTHY of California introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Financial Services



October 31, 2011



Additional sponsors: Mr. DOLD and Ms. HAYWORTH




October 31, 2011

Reported with an amendment, committed to the Committee of the Whole House on the State of the Union, and ordered to be printed


SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Access to Capital for Job Creators Act'.

In other words even though it has nothing to do with jobs, and actually gives more freedom to the wall streeters do bag us even worse on a second round, Instead of telling the truth and calling it a remove restriction on securities and derivatives, which probably would cause riots from even the Tea baggers, we will call it a capital for jobs and a job creation act. Wy worry the dumb public will believe it if all the GOP keeps repeating this. Hey when I was a used car dealer the samne coulple walked by the lot every afternoon. I pointed out the nice red Ferrari four door at the front of the line. They finally let me take hem for a ride In the painted with a brush 200,000 mile ford Taurus and bought it for a Ferrari price. The citizens of the USA don't need to or have a right to know anything except what we tell them. If we all keep saying capital for jobs act often enough and our captive right wing media join in they will believe us. Just look at how long the birther thing is still going on.
hSEC. 2. MODIFICATION OF EXEMPTION.




SEC. 2. MODIFICATION OF EXEMPTION.

(a) Removal of Restriction- Section 4(2) of the Securities Act of 1933 (15 U.S.C. 77d(2)) is amended by adding before the period the following: `, whether or not such transactions involve general solicitation or general advertising'.


(b) Modification of Rules- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Securities and Exchange Commission shall revise its rules issued in section 230.506 of title 17, Code of Federal Regulations, to provide that the prohibition against general solicitation or general advertising contained in section 230.502(c) of such title shall not apply to offers and sales of securities made pursuant to section 230.506, provided that all purchasers of the securities are accredited investors. Such rules shall require the issuer to take reasonable steps to verify that purchasers of the securities are accredited investors, using such methods as determined by the Commission.

Union Calendar No. 176




112th CONGRESS1st SessionH. R. 2940[Report No. 112-263]A BILLTo direct the Securities and Exchange Commission to eliminate the prohibition against general solicitation as a requirement for a certain exemption under Regulation D.

THis act has absolutely nothing to do with job creators Jobs or the general economy. As an ex securities broker in training (I had the highest final exam score in the class of 60 and did not get to take the test on my at date when I shattered my heel needing 11 screws and a metal plate for reconstruction) All this does is remove one of the restrictions on blatant advertising wars to sell and to not have prospectus and or truthful statements. In other words it removes the last restriction on say anything totally misrepresent something and no penalty. Even sleazy used (not all are many are really good upfront folks) car delers have restrictions on false advertising and many state also have a three day rescission of contract clause.


NOw I fail to see any connection with making job creation capital available. Where is this capital coming from ? How is it accessible for to and from whom?

All this jobs act does is make an intentional misrepresentation to buyers legal and a freebie. Now this is like derivatives sold by some investment banks as good when the bank was making bets on the "derivative" property failing. scandal . What they did on wall street was illegal. Now it is legal to lie about your stocks and securities and you can not be prosecuted. You and I do that with just about anything and it's jail time. But if you are a broker and you are lying and selling securities under false representation that will be legal.

This act has absolutely nothing to do with capital of any kind from anywhere and nothing to do with jobs. If anything it would be likely to foster another investment banking overreach which would destroy another 30 percent or what ever it is of the nations people's wealth. As an example you saw your 401 k retirement funds go from say an even 1,000,000 dollars to 500, 000 dollars as some did during the crash.

Now with this act you can look for another round with the restriction on misrepresentation via solicitation removed they will have a real field day.

Watch the country's wealth get dropped by 60 or more percent this time. So now your $1,000,000 nest egg will drop to 200,000 in real dollars of buying power (we may have other than dollars for trade by then). So if the investment banks and securities brokers do this again (and this act actually encourages them to act that way) You will have less money for jobs creation. THe IBs and SBs do not create jobs. They remove money, THE Capital, from the pool of wealth that individuals and small business and even corporations have to sustain them selves let alone invest in creating jobs.

I suspect as this has become REpublican modus operandi in the last ten years, most of the rest on your list will if pursued, come out as just as much of a decietfull sham as this "HR 2940 act". I am still a middling conservative in most things. I am a gun owner and believe in individual rights. I have been a registered republican my whole voting life.

I am totaly disgusted with the clown circus of the campaign.
I am totaly disgusted with the loony bin excuse for house and senate members Republicans devolved themselves into.

I personally believe signing anything in advance of facts an motions and acts and bills as to how they will vote is a violation of their oath of office. Ludicrous, we will vote no even on our own bills we have written if they come up so the president can not have a chance to sign any thing of importance. I sincerely believe their signing their vote away in advance is an act of Treason against the USA.
I further believe mister Nordquist's efforts to buy or coerce and or get such signatures of pledge to vote as he has requested in advance of all issues to come before the house and senate is blatant treason of the highest order.

To put party before country and states and to proudly announce on the senate floor that the GOP will vote in all cases to make this president only have one term by not allowing him to accomplish anything. Announcing to vote not for country but to hold the country as hostage against voting every time to hurt the POTUS no matter how much it hurts the country or their own states is treasonous by most world standards in most countries.

They make me ashamed to be a republican. To say you have a black man on your team so we will not let you accomplish anything till we get rid of the black man you have on our team. That is our reason for making him losing the next election a higher priority than country or jobless or economy or military it is more important than everything.


Would they act this way if President Obama looked more white? Maybe like Vin Diesel, who considers himself a man of color. The rage the have against the President is way beyond normal and or any realistic challenges by and to political parties.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-08-2011, 06:11 PM
It may not be evident from what I posted as I could not do a full C&P, but all the ones with the comment "Senate has taken no action to date" means it's passed the House. So when you say Cognress is too busy, you really are referring to Harry Reid's Senate. The House has done a great job.

A lot of nice titles and feel good summaries but judging a bill on it's summary is a suckers game.

John Smith
11-08-2011, 06:55 PM
Funny that I think overall, the dems are the same way.

I can link to Republicans lying about the healthcare reform bill. I can link to Glen Beck caught lying. I can link to FOX NEWS substituting file footage to make rallies look bigger.

Can you link to some democrats lying about such issues? I'm talking recently. like in the last 3 decades.

John Smith
11-08-2011, 06:59 PM
Well, you are right, anytime John Smith is in the bilge I should put my boots on. Where does he get this BS?

Where are the numbers? Links and verification? John, this is so old and mildewy, jeez ....

What states are they in control of? And what and what is this breach of contract? Do they have any Dem lawyers there that need a job?

You mean those states(what states John?) can override the SCOTUS? and what does it have to do with most birth control and the legality of uh say.... the morning after pill?

Again a ridiculous claim. I'm shaking my head John.

Is this a "rally the troops" John?

There are states passing legislation that defines life as beginning at conception. These new laws will be laws until/unless the supreme court overturns them. If you understand how birth control actually works, these laws would make it illegal. A miscarriage could be reason for criminal charges under them.

Every time you insult me, it simply tells me that you cannot answer whatever point it is I am making.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
11-08-2011, 06:59 PM
Obama can even tell us what god wants.

Yep, and God wants you to stop being a pig around women.;)

Waddie
11-08-2011, 07:00 PM
It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for another Republican.

You do see the irony in your condemning the opposition because they're unwilling to compromise when you are the same way?

It reminds me of the phrase; "the pot calling the kettle black"..... :)

Criticize the opposition on any other issue but this one.....regarding compromising, you don't own the high ground.

regards,
Waddie

PS. I would say more, but Perldog stole my thunder.....

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-08-2011, 07:45 PM
You do see the irony in your condemning the opposition because they're unwilling to compromise when you are the same way?



He gets to play his own hand, Wad. It's the American way.
BTW, that's a declarative sentence with a question mark after it.

pefjr
11-08-2011, 08:03 PM
Every time you insult me, it simply tells me that you cannot answer whatever point it is I am making.You insulted yourself. You have not made any point, you are slinging hash, without cites. It will be a cold day in hell when I waste any more time with you.

Gerarddm
11-08-2011, 08:08 PM
O there is no question who is running the Republicans at the moment: the modern Know-Nothings, backed by reactionary plutocrats and state's-rights diehards.

Meanwhile, I still maintain that the reason why Obama is in so much trouble is that he didn't carpe diem. What we got was Bush Lite instead of a combination of Teddy Roosevelt and Bobby Kennedy. Like Bill Clinton, a fine opportunity going down the drain. Sad.

pefjr
11-08-2011, 08:09 PM
Yep, and God wants you to stop being a pig around women.;)Hog, I was a hog. But what about ol Tx? There are some tall tales coming out of Austin Texas. What about Chase? I may see them both in Hell, then we will know the truth.

Waddie
11-08-2011, 08:35 PM
He gets to play his own hand, Wad. It's the American way.
BTW, that's a declarative sentence with a question mark after it.

WOW, you really like pissing contests, don't you? Are you sure you want to go there, again?

God, I only hope those two questions are grammatically correct. I wouldn't want to offend a grammar Nazi.

regards,
Waddie

Chip-skiff
11-08-2011, 08:46 PM
The flock follows the Bellwether.... Which, of course, is castrated. One can tell where the flock is headed by listening for the bell. Right now, I'd say the flock is headed into a deep, dark morass.

I agree on politics, but disagree on actual sheep. I herded some, and they follow the old, headstrong ewes. The bellwethers (or black sheep) are markers, that help you figure out where the herd is or how it's split up. Since the wethers are also meat-on-the-hoof for the herders, it's sort of like the dinner bell.

Lew Barrett
11-08-2011, 09:15 PM
Here's some info on bills to help in job creation and the status so you may get the false record cited above corrected:

Empower Small Business Owners
Small business owners are being bogged down by burdensome regulations from Washington that prevent job creation and hinder economic growth. We must remove onerous regulations that are redundant, harm small businesses, and impede private sector investment and job creation.

Review of Federal Regulations
H.Res. 72 - Passed by the House (391-28) on February 11, 2011


The Reducing Regulatory Burdens Act
H.R. 872 - Senate has taken no action to date



The Energy Tax Prevention Act
H.R. 910 - Senate has taken no action to date



Disapproval of FCC's Net Neutrality Regulations
H.J.Res. 37 - Senate has taken no action to date



The Clean Water Cooperative Federalism Act
H.R. 2018 - Senate has taken no action to date



Consumer Financial Protection & Soundness Improvement Act
H.R. 1315 - Senate has taken no action to date



Protecting Jobs From Government Interference Act
H.R. 2587 - Senate has taken no action to date



Transparency In Regulatory Analysis Of Impacts On The Nation
H.R. 2401 - Senate has taken no action to date



Cement Sector Regulatory Relief Act
H.R. 2681 - Senate has taken no action to date



EPA Regulatory Relief Act
H.R. 2250 - Senate has taken no action to date



Coal Residuals Reuse and Management Act
H.R. 2273 - Senate has taken no action to date




Fix The Tax Code To Help Job Creators
America’s tax code has grown too complicated and cumbersome. We need a tax code that is flatter, fairer, and simpler to ensure that everyone pays their fair share, lessen the burden on families, generate economic expansion, and create jobs by making America more competitive.

The Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act


H.R. 4 - Signed into law by the President on April 14, 2011


3% Withholding Rule Repeal
H.R. 674 - Senate has taken no action to date





Increase Competitiveness for U.S. Manufacturers
The more that American businesses export, the more they produce. The more businesses produce, the more workers they need. This means job creation. Expanding market access for U.S. made products will be a shot in the arm for businesses small and large and will create jobs.

U.S.-Colombia Trade Promotion Agreement Implementation Act
H.R. 3078 - Signed by the Preisdent on October 21, 2011


U.S.-Panama Trade Promotion Agreement Implementation Act
H.R. 3079 - Signed by the Preisdent on October 21, 2011


U.S.-Korea Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
H.R. 3080 - Signed by the Preisdent on October 21, 2011


Southeast Arizona Resource Utilization & Conservation Act
H.R. 1904 - Senate has taken no action to date






Encourage Entrepreneurship and Growth
America has historically been on the cutting edge of innovation and technological development, but we are increasingly falling behind our global competitors. We must make it easier for existing businesses to grow and allow more start-up companies to flourish.

The America Invents Act
H.R. 1249 - Signed into law by the President on September 16, 2011


Veterans Opportunity to Work Act
H.R. 2433 - Senate has taken no action to date



Small Company Capital Formation Act
H.R. 1070 - Senate has taken no action to date



Community Bank Resource Improvement Act
H.R. 1965 - Senate has taken no action to date



Entrepreneur Access to Capital Act
H.R. 2930 - Senate has taken no action to date



Access to Capital for Job Creators Act
H.R. 2940 - Senate has taken no action to date





Maximize Domestic Energy Production
The energy sector is crucial to our economic growth, and high energy costs have a major impact on job creation. We need policies that allow us to harness our abundant supply of natural resources in America, develop new sources of energy, and create jobs here at home.

Restarting American Offshore Leasing Now Act
H.R. 1230 - Senate has taken no action to date



Putting the Gulf of Mexico Back to Work Act
H.R. 1229 - Senate has taken no action to date



Reversing President Obama’s Offshore Moratorium Act
H.R. 1231 - Senate has taken no action to date



The Jobs and Energy Permitting Act of 2011
H.R. 2021 - Senate has taken no action to date



North American-Made Energy Security Act
H.R. 1938 - Senate has taken no action to date





Pay Down America's Unsustainable Debt Burden
The federal government is spending and borrowing so much that the United States will soon go broke. Washington’s spending binge has put our nation in debt, eroded economic confidence, and caused massive uncertainty for private sector job creators. It's time to live within our means.

Budget for Fiscal Year 2012
H.Con.Res. 34 - Senate has not yet considered a budget of its own

Have you read the content of any of these bills you count as positive actions? Why would we think they are automatically good and deserving of passage? Let's take one example of many:

HR872: Reducing Regulatory Burdens Act. You know what burdens this one reduces? Let me C&P for you the
"burdens" involved in this otherwise nice sounding bit:

Reducing Regulatory Burdens Act of 2011 - Amends the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) and the Federal Water Pollution Control Act (commonly known as the Clean Water Act [CWA]) to prohibit the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) or a state from requiring a permit under the CWA for a discharge from a point source into navigable waters of a pesticide authorized for sale, distribution, or use under FIFRA, or the residue of such a pesticide, resulting from the application of such pesticide. Exempts from such prohibition the following discharges containing a pesticide or pesticide residue: (1) a discharge resulting from the application of a pesticide in violation of FIFRA that is relevant to protecting water quality, if the discharge would not have occurred but for the violation or the amount of pesticide or pesticide residue contained in the discharge is greater than would have occurred without the violation; (2) stormwater discharges regulated under the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES); and (3) discharges regulated under NPDES of manufacturing or industrial effluent or treatment works effluent and discharges incidental to the normal operation of a vessel, including a discharge resulting from ballasting operations or vessel biofouling prevention.


Shall we examine some more of these proposals? Let's!
Shall it be random? Why not. Let's pick a pretty sounding one:

HR 910: The energy Tax Prevention Act.


"To amend the Clean Air Act to prohibit the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency from promulgating any regulation concerning, taking action relating to, or taking into consideration the emission of a greenhouse gas to address climate change, and for other purposes."


Is there some reason these (among others) should be acted upon in haste by the US Senate? May we assume you read all these resolutions to determine that they are in fact healthful for the nation, and that this body of proposals is other than largely comprised of self serving non science? There may be very good reasons not to pass on all or indeed many of these resolutions. You supply them to us as if they are positive goods, when in fact many of them bear all the requirements for full debate.

John Smith
11-08-2011, 09:35 PM
You do see the irony in your condemning the opposition because they're unwilling to compromise when you are the same way?

It reminds me of the phrase; "the pot calling the kettle black"..... :)

Criticize the opposition on any other issue but this one.....regarding compromising, you don't own the high ground.

regards,
Waddie

PS. I would say more, but Perldog stole my thunder.....

I think many compromises have been made by this president. That's what's put his base support in question. The Republicans have signed a pledge not to raise taxes in any way, shape, or form for any reason. On that they have refused to compromise. Extended the Bush tax cuts was a compromise. How many bills have died in the senate because the Republicans, voting in lock step, have filibustered them?

Find some lies the democrats have told us about the Affordable Care Act. Just, please, make sure you fact check them.

John Smith
11-08-2011, 09:38 PM
You insulted yourself. You have not made any point, you are slinging hash, without cites. It will be a cold day in hell when I waste any more time with you.

Actually, I've posted links often. I just posted the video of Franken calling Thune on his lack of facts.

I posted an entire page of Fact Checking on lies told about the health care bill.


I guess you haven't noticed.

pefjr
11-08-2011, 11:23 PM
Actually, I've posted links often. I just posted the video of Franken calling Thune on his lack of facts.

I posted an entire page of Fact Checking on lies told about the health care bill.

I guess you haven't noticed.I noticed. Those were different subjects, nothing to do with your post here.

RodSBT
11-08-2011, 11:44 PM
Wake up kids, the same forces that control the democrats control the republicans when you distill the mash and that first run comes out doubled and twisted. That is to say pure. What you have in this case is not corn liquor nearly 100 proof, but power and greed. Money and Power.

Understand this, and it's all clear. One side will wrap themselves in this ideology the other that. They both want the same thing. They combination to the safe and the alarm code for the store.

It's all a matter of personal taste, would you like to have your nuggets stepped on by big government or big corporations? ( a bit over simplified, but when trying to illuminate out such an obvious point so overlooked..... ) Choose one then spend all of your idle time flingin' th' poo at the other as our bilge brothers have taught us.

We're looking for a who? What difference does that make? I still say we pin it on this dude:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/307777_100156790094485_100152733428224_261_1707812 110_n.jpg

I mean gosh golly! We have a confession there. Yep.

Have a nice evening :)

This is the most concise and accurate post of this entire thread.
The only thing that could be added would be the twin thread for the Demicans?

Chip-skiff
11-09-2011, 12:50 AM
Both parties have contributed to the current slate of problems.

But at least the Democrats have the decency to be ashamed of caving in to greed, corruption, thievery, and vile self-serving.

The Republicans are shameless. What their Bible calls evil, they trumpet as virtuous. Given the latest rejection by voters of "pure conservativism" they might need to recalculate their strategy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/us/politics/votes-across-the-nation-could-serve-as-a-political-barometer.html

Bigoted, paranoid, superstitious gobbledygook does not qualify one to govern.

bobbys
11-09-2011, 01:34 AM
I would like to see Pat Robertson rule America but if he is to busy i would like the POPE and i think he could bring his bishops and Vatican guard and a big plus would be the POPE MOBILE.

Chip-skiff
11-09-2011, 01:38 AM
I would like to see Pat Robertson rule America but if he is to busy i would like the POPE and i think he could bring his bishops and Vatican guard and a big plus would be the POPE MOBILE.

Another conservative thinker weighs in. . .

skuthorp
11-09-2011, 01:38 AM
A Pope mobile? You mean one of those things with string and wire and little figures of the Pope, cardinals and Vatican guards swinging about in the wind? Where can you get one of those?

bobbys
11-09-2011, 01:46 AM
Another conservative thinker weighs in. . ..

O come now even Norm likes Conservative Judge;s now...

bobbys
11-09-2011, 01:48 AM
A Pope mobile? You mean one of those things with string and wire and little figures of the Pope, cardinals and Vatican guards swinging about in the wind? Where can you get one of those?.

They do not give then out anymore cause people were putting them on their rear view mirrors and were being distracted while driving.

Chip-skiff
11-09-2011, 01:50 AM
.

O come now even Norm likes Conservative Judge;s now...

So you're making progress in in your ESL class. Congratulations.

TANSTAF1
11-09-2011, 10:13 AM
Yeah, if he could just add an "h" after the "O," add a comma after "now," make the "C" and "J" lower case and turn the semicolon into an apostrophe he could get up to "A" level in his ESL course.

Lew Barrett
11-09-2011, 10:36 AM
To the moment there has been no response from Tanstaf to Chase's (or my) allegations that the list of bills currently "awaiting approval" in the Senate are not uniformly what they have been represented to be. There were presented as if they were a compilation of thoughtful and well considered referendums to move the country forward, create jobs and aid in the general good. What they are upon examination is a long string of questionable and debatable complications. In some cases, they cynically masquerade as efforts to simplify certain legal codes. In others, they pretend to be job makers. In reality, many don't even bother to hide the fact that they are shills for special interests.

I wonder how this tiresome argument about the House's efficacy will be argued next? This shouldn't be taken as a blanket endorsement of Senate behavior, but neither is it a valid argument in support of the integrity of the Republican House. An empty and poorly considered offering from a
highly partisan source that can be discounted following the most basic online research, it puts into question many of the suppositions this poster offers and further suggests why discussion at this level is not fruitful.

ccmanuals
11-09-2011, 10:46 AM
Lew, were you really expecting an honest response?

TANSTAF1
11-09-2011, 11:03 AM
Lets take just the one in red that I randomly picked.

THis act has absolutely nothing to do with job creators Jobs or the general economy. As an ex securities broker in training (I had the highest final exam score in the class of 60 and did not get to take the test on my at date when I shattered my heel needing 11 screws and a metal plate for reconstruction) All this does is remove one of the restrictions on blatant advertising wars to sell and to not have prospectus and or truthful statements. In other words it removes the last restriction on say anything totally misrepresent something and no penalty. Even sleazy used (not all are many are really good upfront folks) car delers have restrictions on false advertising and many state also have a three day rescission of contract clause.

NOw I fail to see any connection with making job creation capital available. Where is this capital coming from ? How is it accessible for to and from whom?

All this jobs act does is make an intentional misrepresentation to buyers legal and a freebie. Now this is like derivatives sold by some investment banks as good when the bank was making bets on the "derivative" property failing. scandal . What they did on wall street was illegal. Now it is legal to lie about your stocks and securities and you can not be prosecuted. You and I do that with just about anything and it's jail time. But if you are a broker and you are lying and selling securities under false representation that will be legal.

This act has absolutely nothing to do with capital of any kind from anywhere and nothing to do with jobs. If anything it would be likely to foster another investment banking overreach which would destroy another 30 percent or what ever it is of the nations people's wealth. As an example you saw your 401 k retirement funds go from say an even 1,000,000 dollars to 500, 000 dollars as some did during the crash.

Now with this act you can look for another round with the restriction on misrepresentation via solicitation removed they will have a real field day.

Watch the country's wealth get dropped by 60 or more percent this time. So now your $1,000,000 nest egg will drop to 200,000 in real dollars of buying power (we may have other than dollars for trade by then). So if the investment banks and securities brokers do this again (and this act actually encourages them to act that way) You will have less money for jobs creation. THe IBs and SBs do not create jobs. They remove money, THE Capital, from the pool of wealth that individuals and small business and even corporations have to sustain them selves let alone invest in creating jobs.

I suspect as this has become REpublican modus operandi in the last ten years, most of the rest on your list will if pursued, come out as just as much of a decietfull sham as this "HR 2940 act". I am still a middling conservative in most things. I am a gun owner and believe in individual rights. I have been a registered republican my whole voting life.

I am totaly disgusted with the clown circus of the campaign.
I am totaly disgusted with the loony bin excuse for house and senate members Republicans devolved themselves into.

I personally believe signing anything in advance of facts an motions and acts and bills as to how they will vote is a violation of their oath of office. Ludicrous, we will vote no even on our own bills we have written if they come up so the president can not have a chance to sign any thing of importance. I sincerely believe their signing their vote away in advance is an act of Treason against the USA.
I further believe mister Nordquist's efforts to buy or coerce and or get such signatures of pledge to vote as he has requested in advance of all issues to come before the house and senate is blatant treason of the highest order.

To put party before country and states and to proudly announce on the senate floor that the GOP will vote in all cases to make this president only have one term by not allowing him to accomplish anything. Announcing to vote not for country but to hold the country as hostage against voting every time to hurt the POTUS no matter how much it hurts the country or their own states is treasonous by most world standards in most countries.

They make me ashamed to be a republican. To say you have a black man on your team so we will not let you accomplish anything till we get rid of the black man you have on our team. That is our reason for making him losing the next election a higher priority than country or jobless or economy or military it is more important than everything.

Would they act this way if President Obama looked more white? Maybe like Vin Diesel, who considers himself a man of color. The rage the have against the President is way beyond normal and or any realistic challenges by and to political parties.

Why wouldn't accredited investors know BS and why do accredited investors need protection byt he government?

TANSTAF1
11-09-2011, 11:12 AM
Have you read the content of any of these bills you count as positive actions? Why would we think they are automatically good and deserving of passage? Let's take one example of many:

HR872: Reducing Regulatory Burdens Act. You know what burdens this one reduces? Let me C&P for you the
"burdens" involved in this otherwise nice sounding bit:

Reducing Regulatory Burdens Act of 2011 - Amends the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) and the Federal Water Pollution Control Act (commonly known as the Clean Water Act [CWA]) to prohibit the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) or a state from requiring a permit under the CWA for a discharge from a point source into navigable waters of a pesticide authorized for sale, distribution, or use under FIFRA, or the residue of such a pesticide, resulting from the application of such pesticide. Exempts from such prohibition the following discharges containing a pesticide or pesticide residue: (1) a discharge resulting from the application of a pesticide in violation of FIFRA that is relevant to protecting water quality, if the discharge would not have occurred but for the violation or the amount of pesticide or pesticide residue contained in the discharge is greater than would have occurred without the violation; (2) stormwater discharges regulated under the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES); and (3) discharges regulated under NPDES of manufacturing or industrial effluent or treatment works effluent and discharges incidental to the normal operation of a vessel, including a discharge resulting from ballasting operations or vessel biofouling prevention.


Shall we examine some more of these proposals? Let's!
Shall it be random? Why not. Let's pick a pretty sounding one:

HR 910: The energy Tax Prevention Act.


"To amend the Clean Air Act to prohibit the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency from promulgating any regulation concerning, taking action relating to, or taking into consideration the emission of a greenhouse gas to address climate change, and for other purposes."


Is there some reason these (among others) should be acted upon in haste by the US Senate? May we assume you read all these resolutions to determine that they are in fact healthful for the nation, and that this body of proposals is other than largely comprised of self serving non science? There may be very good reasons not to pass on all or indeed many of these resolutions. You supply them to us as if they are positive goods, when in fact many of them bear all the requirements for full debate.

I like mosquitoes and don't care if they cause diseases.

CO2 is naturally emitted and not a pollutant.

TANSTAF1
11-09-2011, 11:17 AM
To the moment there has been no response from Tanstaf to Chase's (or my) allegations that the list of bills currently "awaiting approval" in the Senate are not uniformly what they have been represented to be. There were presented as if they were a compilation of thoughtful and well considered referendums to move the country forward, create jobs and aid in the general good. What they are upon examination is a long string of questionable and debatable complications. In some cases, they cynically masquerade as efforts to simplify certain legal codes. In others, they pretend to be job makers. In reality, many don't even bother to hide the fact that they are shills for special interests.

I wonder how this tiresome argument about the House's efficacy will be argued next? This shouldn't be taken as a blanket endorsement of Senate behavior, but neither is it a valid argument in support of the integrity of the Republican House. An empty and poorly considered offering from a
highly partisan source that can be discounted following the most basic online research, it puts into question many of the suppositions this poster offers and further suggests why discussion at this level is not fruitful.

I did not personally select the list of bills that passed the House or are being considered by them. They were a cut and paste as a quick rebuttal to the original highly partisan and totally inaccurate post by Chase that the GOP/House has done nothing to stimulate job creation.

John Smith
11-09-2011, 12:58 PM
Why wouldn't accredited investors know BS and why do accredited investors need protection byt he government?

Because they are gambling with other peoples' money.

Talk to some folks who've lost their pensions or their homes, or both.

Lew Barrett
11-09-2011, 01:16 PM
I like mosquitoes and don't carry if they cause diseases.

CO2 is naturally emitted and not a pollutant.

Read it. It suggests that spraying and dumping (of toxics) shouldn't require permitting. It has nothing to do with banning or not banning mosquito sprays, just removing regulation requirements. Talk to bee keepers about this!

I can't talk to you about C02 emissions sensibly. I will have to pass on that one. It becomes a question of climate change science; there are far better people on this forum to argue that point with you in any case.


I did not personally select the list of bills that passed the House or are being considered by them. They were a cut and paste as a quick rebuttal to the original highly partisan and totally inaccurate post by Chase that the GOP/House has done nothing to stimulate job creation.

You have agreed with my premise that your post was an un-vetted C&P. That's what I (and, I think, Chase) was really trying to suggest anyway. Throw enough spaghetti on the wall and hope some sticks! Your C&P rebuttal failed the sniff test because you didn't have enough respect for your own credibility to read and understand it's implications before posting it.

As you were!

TANSTAF1
11-09-2011, 03:39 PM
Read it. It suggests that spraying and dumping (of toxics) shouldn't require permitting. It has nothing to do with banning or not banning mosquito sprays, just removing regulation requirements. Talk to bee keepers about this!

I can't talk to you about C02 emissions sensibly. I will have to pass on that one. It becomes a question of climate change science; there are far better people on this forum to argue that point with you in any case.



You have agreed with my premise that your post was an un-vetted C&P. That's what I (and, I think, Chase) was really trying to suggest anyway. Throw enough spaghetti on the wall and hope some sticks! Your C&P rebuttal failed the sniff test because you didn't have enough respect for your own credibility to read and understand it's implications before posting it.

As you were!

I plead guilty. However i do wish to point that Chase's original post was an unvetted C&P trolling image so one unvetted C&P deserves another.

Lew Barrett
11-09-2011, 04:58 PM
I plead guilty. However i do wish to point that Chase's original post was an unvetted C&P trolling image so one unvetted C&P deserves another.

But they don't. That would be like saying two wrongs make a right. One's credibility is always a valuable commodity, which isn't to say we don't all make mistakes, you, me and Chase. Speaking of which, your guilty plea stands in your favor and is to be commended. So, commendation noted!

ChaseKenyon
11-09-2011, 07:33 PM
I did not personally select the list of bills that passed the House or are being considered by them. They were a cut and paste as a quick rebuttal to the original highly partisan and totally inaccurate post by Chase that the GOP/House has done nothing to stimulate job creation.

accredited investors or not are not the issue. The issue is that the list you gave which you have admitted was a quickie C&P to rebut me, Contains many if not mostly charade bills by the house republicans. Unfortunately the facts of these bills are that they are masking as Jobs and other bills when they have nothing to do with those things. Calling a bill that makes it legal for securities brokers and banks to intentionally mislead buyers gives them a pass on laws that if any other industry or group or persons tried to get away with they would face serious jail time. Calling that a jobs bill does not make it one. in fact it is a jobs reduction (in the final long term picture) bill.


My post was not partisian.

For my post to be partisian as you have accused would require by definition me to be a left wing liberal Democrat.

I am not such person and resent our calling by implication me as such.

Since 1969 ( a period of 42 years) I have been a registered republican even though I consider myself to be conservative with centrist and pragmatic tendencies.

So I do take umbrage at your partisian labeling of me as a partisian commentor.

My problem with the current crop of GOP in the house and senate is their lack of doing the job they were sworn to do, on behalf of this country and the people they represent.

They have for all practical purposes allow a minority faction of self declared extreme conservatives (who seem to be mostly concerned with Moral issues from reconfirming "in god we trust" (which has only been on USA currency since 1957) as the official slogan going back to our founding fathers, something that confirms their lack of government and historical knowledge, to take control of the government in that they can stall everything they disagree with just for the sake of stalling. If you read the Bill that you have listed the number of them that are based on religious philosophies (even saying that the founders "no religion except that all Christian religions are OK as the founders meant". The actual fact is that most of the founders were Deists like myself not Christians. Ben Franklin was an anti Semite who wanted the constitution to proscribe Jews from being allowed into the country at all let alone as citizens.). The number of bills with parts trying to take away rights like abortion that have existed and been tested by the supreme court is mind boggling if you read the fine print in the Jobs bills they have put forth.

We have a situation here in the USA where a small faction of "self declared Tea Party members of the House and Senate are along with their mentor NOT Elected Leader Grover Nordquist controlling the government in our way or the Nothing can get done Highway.

I seriously doubt if that was something the founding father would approve of, as they went so far as to create the Electoral college not because of lack of communication as some say, but to prevent populous states from having everything in their way to the detriment of other less populous states.

So far I believe my comments have been accurate and my big upset is that those jpgs i c&pd are closer to the truth than the list you posted.

THis is the dilemma facing us as citizens of this nation.

The people, in general, like your self assume that like the one single one of your list as a random pick are masquerading as job bills and other things when they are something if anything almost the opposite of the Called by or referenced by the name "XXX" as I have shown.

Just for the record: I am a proud gun owner with a small but effective if need arsenal. I believe in the 2nd and more in favor of gun rights.

And vote and support many other so called right wing ideas. I consider them as pragmatic centrist conservative ideas.


I believe in the best possible government is the least possible government (Thomas Jefferson). But I also believe in pragmatically we need a very large and extensive government to take care of each other to protect each other and to go forth and do bigger things for the benefit of us all. Things like Social security and the dams and the TVA and and and.....

TANSTAF1
11-10-2011, 06:40 AM
accredited investors or not are not the issue. The issue is that the list you gave which you have admitted was a quickie C&P to rebut me, Contains many if not mostly charade bills by the house republicans. Unfortunately the facts of these bills are that they are masking as Jobs and other bills when they have nothing to do with those things. Calling a bill that makes it legal for securities brokers and banks to intentionally mislead buyers gives them a pass on laws that if any other industry or group or persons tried to get away with they would face serious jail time. Calling that a jobs bill does not make it one. in fact it is a jobs reduction (in the final long term picture) bill.


My post was not partisian.

For my post to be partisian as you have accused would require by definition me to be a left wing liberal Democrat.

I am not such person and resent our calling by implication me as such.

Since 1969 ( a period of 42 years) I have been a registered republican even though I consider myself to be conservative with centrist and pragmatic tendencies.

So I do take umbrage at your partisian labeling of me as a partisian commentor.

My problem with the current crop of GOP in the house and senate is their lack of doing the job they were sworn to do, on behalf of this country and the people they represent.

They have for all practical purposes allow a minority faction of self declared extreme conservatives (who seem to be mostly concerned with Moral issues from reconfirming "in god we trust" (which has only been on USA currency since 1957) as the official slogan going back to our founding fathers, something that confirms their lack of government and historical knowledge, to take control of the government in that they can stall everything they disagree with just for the sake of stalling. If you read the Bill that you have listed the number of them that are based on religious philosophies (even saying that the founders "no religion except that all Christian religions are OK as the founders meant". The actual fact is that most of the founders were Deists like myself not Christians. Ben Franklin was an anti Semite who wanted the constitution to proscribe Jews from being allowed into the country at all let alone as citizens.). The number of bills with parts trying to take away rights like abortion that have existed and been tested by the supreme court is mind boggling if you read the fine print in the Jobs bills they have put forth.

We have a situation here in the USA where a small faction of "self declared Tea Party members of the House and Senate are along with their mentor NOT Elected Leader Grover Nordquist controlling the government in our way or the Nothing can get done Highway.

I seriously doubt if that was something the founding father would approve of, as they went so far as to create the Electoral college not because of lack of communication as some say, but to prevent populous states from having everything in their way to the detriment of other less populous states.

So far I believe my comments have been accurate and my big upset is that those jpgs i c&pd are closer to the truth than the list you posted.

THis is the dilemma facing us as citizens of this nation.

The people, in general, like your self assume that like the one single one of your list as a random pick are masquerading as job bills and other things when they are something if anything almost the opposite of the Called by or referenced by the name "XXX" as I have shown.

Just for the record: I am a proud gun owner with a small but effective if need arsenal. I believe in the 2nd and more in favor of gun rights.

And vote and support many other so called right wing ideas. I consider them as pragmatic centrist conservative ideas.


I believe in the best possible government is the least possible government (Thomas Jefferson). But I also believe in pragmatically we need a very large and extensive government to take care of each other to protect each other and to go forth and do bigger things for the benefit of us all. Things like Social security and the dams and the TVA and and and.....

The exception in the bill which you criticized only applies to accredited investors.

To me a jobs bill is not one in which the government takes money from me and gives most of it to a crony or a bureaucrat and a little to someone else and calls that job creation.

Your post was highly partisan. I will say I was surprised by it as it seems out of the norm for you. For Norm it would be norm.

I will endeavor to follow more closely what congressional Tea Partiers are doing. The Tea Party itself tries to focus on fiscal matters and to avoid social ones, but they do not control the congresscritters they support.

Lew Barrett
11-10-2011, 11:26 AM
The Tea Party itself tries to focus on fiscal matters and to avoid social ones, but they do not control the congresscritters they support.

They may not, but they have seemingly controlled the agenda of the "critters" they have elected, right down to nonsense like the no new taxes pledge. Whereas the impact of the TP in respect to actual accomplishment is yet to be seen, their impact on the discourse has been considerable, and in my opinion not generally positive. That last part is certainly subject to debate, but the first part is I think demonstrable.

When elected officials, specifically Republican congresspeople, identify the TP for what it is, a significant, vocal minority, we will make some progress. As long as the TP drives the visual agenda of the Republican Party, the Party is less likely to improve on it's position vis a vis national elections. The answer to the OP's question, to me seems plain. Whoever runs the Republican Party in reality the public agenda has been set by the Tea Party and other extreme elements of right.

ChaseKenyon
11-12-2011, 01:08 PM
The exception in the bill which you criticized only applies to accredited investors.

To me a jobs bill is not one in which the government takes money from me and gives most of it to a crony or a bureaucrat and a little to someone else and calls that job creation.

Your post was highly partisan. I will say I was surprised by it as it seems out of the norm for you. For Norm it would be norm.

I will endeavor to follow more closely what congressional Tea Partiers are doing. The Tea Party itself tries to focus on fiscal matters and to avoid social ones, but they do not control the congresscritters they support.

THis should clarify it for you as to who is an accredited Investor. Pretty much everyone who invests via a bank 401k or any other avenue.

http://www.sec.gov/answers/accred.htm

(http://www.sec.gov/answers/accred.htm)



Accredited Investors

Under the Securities Act of 1933, a company that offers or sells its securities must register the securities with the SEC or find an exemption from the registration requirements. The Act provides companies with a number of exemptions. For some of the exemptions, such as rules 505 (http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/goodbye.cgi?www.law.uc.edu/CCL/33ActRls/rule505.html) and506 (http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/goodbye.cgi?www.law.uc.edu/CCL/33ActRls/rule506.html) of Regulation D (http://www.sec.gov/answers/regd.htm), a company may sell its securities to what are known as "accredited investors."
The federal securities laws define the term accredited investor in Rule 501 of Regulation D (http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/goodbye.cgi?www.law.uc.edu/CCL/33ActRls/rule501.html) as:
a bank, insurance company, registered investment company, business development company, or small business investment company;
an employee benefit plan, within the meaning of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act, if a bank, insurance company, or registered investment adviser makes the investment decisions, or if the plan has total assets in excess of $5 million;
so your bank branch manager who is not a full time securities broker has four funds that he/she is told are hot and sells them to you. The next year the lies and ridiculous claims of a fund become known and you just lost half of your retirement value out of your 401k or Ira and so on. People are allowed to believe the totally falsified prospectus and such of securities and funds and such. Do you believe your bank branch manager has the time to study the offerings and avoid the lies like the toxic securities that crashed the world? Most Branch managers don't even have a securities license, they just fill out your paperwork and then someone at the home office or the regional office who signs it all.

This is known as "trickle down fraud". the bill I happened to stomp on means that to those folks who's business is selling an investment product to YOU, they can lie and misrepresent and not ever be held legally for a crime. They are exempt from all the federal and state fraud laws.
a charitable organization, corporation, or partnership with assets exceeding $5 million;
a director, executive officer, or general partner of the company selling the securities;
a business in which all the equity owners are accredited investors;
a natural person who has individual net worth, or joint net worth with the person’s spouse, that exceeds $1 million at the time of the purchase, excluding the value of the primary residence of such person;
Growing up in Simsbury we had a whole bunch of smart teachers who lived modestly in small houses and both parents taught. They would then invest in rundown "beachhouses", full sized even twice the size of their Simsbury house, not a cabin or camp. Most of these were as the plan spread amongst themselves between Westerly and Narragansett on the RI coast. So over the years they had values skyrocket on the beach house which was by law not their primary residence. THat would have made them "accredited investors".
a natural person with income exceeding $200,000 in each of the two most recent years or joint income with a spouse exceeding $300,000 for those years and a reasonable expectation of the same income level in the current year; or
a trust with assets in excess of $5 million, not formed to acquire the securities offered, whose purchases a sophisticated person makes.
For more information about the SEC’s registration requirements and common exemptions, read our brochure, Q&A: Small Business & the SEC (http://www.sec.gov/info/smallbus/qasbsec.htm).
http://www.sec.gov/answers/accred.htm








(http://www.sec.gov/answers/accred.htm)

Before a whole life salesman stole it into an annuity which he annuitized the following week I had set my parents up with solid tech and other assets in mutual funds of mutual funds and they had a net assets that went from 450k to 1.3m in just five years. So if you count all of someones assets including retirement plans total net worth of 1 mil is not that unusual. I had them set to be able to live off the interest and my dad's navy retirement checks. All of the investments I put them in rebalanced every single day. By doing that they did not rebalance and have to pay taxes and so on to move value from say small companies to large and so on. Most investment advisors will tell you to rebalance everytime say your 3 bases get so that 1 is under 20% and or one is over 42% or so.
(I can't seem to get the bold turned off on that text above)



Accredited investor is a term defined by various securities laws that delineates investors permitted to invest in certain types of higher risk investments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment) including seed money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_money),limited partnerships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_partnership), hedge funds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_fund), and angel investor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_investor) networks. The term generally includes wealthy individuals and organizations such as a corporation, endowment, or retirement plans.
In the United States, for an individual to be considered an accredited investor, they must have a net worth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_worth) of at least one million US dollars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_dollar) not including the value of one's residence or have made at least $200,000 each year for the last two years ($300,000 with his or her spouse if married) and have the expectation to make the same amount this year."[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accredited_investor#cite_note-sec.gov-0) This rule came into effect in 1933 by way of the Securities Act of 1933 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_Act_of_1933).

I hope this clarifies how really dangerous this bill is and how it gives some a free ride in that that can not be charged with the standing fedral and state fraud laws.

.THat bill really upsets me as a past trained securities broker. It hurts the people and it hurts the honest brokers by underselling them which is easy with a false security package.

And yes as I have seen the whole securities industry go from keep your eyes open to rampant fraud on all sides. So I feel I made a good decision to not join Smith Barney when it was part of Travelers.


CHK

WI-Tom
11-12-2011, 05:42 PM
But they don't. That would be like saying two wrongs make a right. One's credibility is always a valuable commodity, which isn't to say we don't all make mistakes, you, me and Chase. Speaking of which, your guilty plea stands in your favor and is to be commended. So, commendation noted!

Lew,

I liked you after meeting you in Port Townsend this September. I like you even more after reading your posts here--rational, thoughtful analysis.

And I like your boat a lot, too!

Tom

Lew Barrett
11-12-2011, 07:05 PM
Thanks, Tom That's awful nice of you to say, and the feeling is entirely mutual.