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View Full Version : One of the worst racing incidents and displays of poor sportsmanship I can recall.



Paul Pless
11-07-2011, 05:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDBd0CLjOwc

The Bigfella
11-07-2011, 05:55 PM
Yeah - I saw that one live.... a little bit of road rage going on there. Take his race licence off him and rip it up.

B_B
11-07-2011, 06:04 PM
"Ya cain't put all the blame on one purson, there wuz two guys got into it at the beginning and two guys that ended it at the end." Classy guy that Kyle Busch.

Waddie
11-07-2011, 06:08 PM
"Ya cain't put all the blame on one purson, there wuz two guys got into it at the beginning and two guys that ended it at the end." Classy guy that Kyle Busch.

Busch definitely took it to the next level. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Busch needs to be out of the kitchen for a while.

regards,
Waddie

B_B
11-07-2011, 06:14 PM
It's ridiculous to call those things "trucks."
I've always hated tonneau covers.

MiddleAgesMan
11-07-2011, 06:16 PM
One word for Busch--but I'm too friggin' polite to say it.

Paul Pless
11-07-2011, 06:22 PM
After the race, Hornaday said he'd be "really upset" if NASCAR didn't park Busch. He also said he'd be at Busch's house Monday morning if NASCAR didn't handle the situation.. . .

Glen Longino
11-07-2011, 06:28 PM
...sniff...I wuz drivin along about 140 in mah truk mindin my own bidness...moan...when out of nowheres...whine... comes this arsehole...sniff...and he...wail...well you seen whut he done...waaaaaaaaaaaah!

Dan McCosh
11-07-2011, 07:50 PM
I thought they were supposed to duke it out on the infield. Where is Junior Johnson when you need him?

Mrleft8
11-07-2011, 07:53 PM
Football is such a weird sport.....

RichKrough
11-07-2011, 08:05 PM
Funny thing is millions of people used to cheer Dale Earnhardt for doing the same sheot nearly every week. To quote Rusty Wallace "Just one of dem racin' deals!"
,

Paul Pless
11-07-2011, 08:11 PM
Funny thing is millions of people used to cheer Dale Earnhardt for doing the same sheot nearly every week.
,No I don't think so. Busch's incident was retaliatory and it occurred under caution. I don't think Earnhardt ever wrecked anybody while the caution was out. To be fair, there's countless incidents of Dale Earnhardt leaning on somebody like Ron Hornaday did before Busch wrecked him, and many times countless incidents of Earnhardt 'taking the air off someone' but that's different then what Busch did here.

Another thing, Earnhardt never wrecked himself trying to wreck somebody else on purpose.:d

johnw
11-07-2011, 08:15 PM
Funny thing is millions of people used to cheer Dale Earnhardt for doing the same sheot nearly every week. To quote Rusty Wallace "Just one of dem racin' deals!"
,Earnhardt did it in such a way that he could keep going and win the race after he made the other guy crash.

Phillip Allen
11-07-2011, 08:18 PM
It's ridiculous to call those things "trucks."

... or sportsmen :)

Paul Pless
11-07-2011, 08:24 PM
... or sportsmen :)Like any sport there's all types of personalities and characters, but auto racing has a high percentage of pretty stand up folks it seem, on and off the track. In the modern age, it has a lot to do with corporate sponsorship and their desire for uncontroversial and clean images on the folks that are wearing their logos.

Chris Coose
11-07-2011, 08:27 PM
That 4 minute clip delivered to me all the race car drivin action I've missed over the past 20 years and will bring me till I take a dirt nap. I am fully satisfied I have not missed a thing, nor will I in car racing action.

The Bigfella
11-07-2011, 08:44 PM
That's not what I call car racing action.

You need F1

pcford
11-07-2011, 08:58 PM
A lot twang going on with them racin' trucks.

Mrleft8
11-07-2011, 08:58 PM
It's a waste of precious resources, and bad for the environment. Of course we don't need to worry about all the brain cells that could be at risk in those smog pits, because it's unlikely that there are many in attendance anyway.

The Bigfella
11-07-2011, 09:00 PM
It's a waste of precious resources, and bad for the environment. Of course we don't need to worry about all the brain cells that could be at risk in those smog pits, because it's unlikely that there are many in attendance anyway.

Quite the contrary. Racing has been the main driver of improved fuel consumption and safety advances over the years

RichKrough
11-07-2011, 09:03 PM
Another thing, Earnhardt never wrecked himself trying to wreck somebody else on purpose.:d

Ha! good point! Y>

RichKrough
11-07-2011, 09:07 PM
.........Of course we don't need to worry about all the brain cells that could be at risk in those smog pits, because it's unlikely that there are many in attendance anyway.

Thats BullSheot! I raced karts and autocrossed various cars for quite a few years and I am just as dumb as when I started !

Phillip Allen
11-07-2011, 09:15 PM
Thats BullSheot! I raced karts and autocrossed various cars for quite a few years and I am just as dumb as when I started !

:) .

Phillip Allen
11-07-2011, 09:17 PM
Quite the contrary. Racing has been the main driver of improved fuel consumption and safety advances over the years

one in 41 race nuts don't care about anyone's gas milage but their own

The Bigfella
11-07-2011, 10:00 PM
one in 41 race nuts don't care about anyone's gas milage but their own

Is "milage" ground oats?

Glen Longino
11-07-2011, 10:03 PM
Is "milage" ground oats?

That's silage!

The Bigfella
11-07-2011, 10:05 PM
That's silage!

Ahh... that confirms my suspicions. He doesn't know what he's writing about.

purri
11-07-2011, 11:05 PM
That's not what I call car racing action.

You need F1

complete with Michael "win at all costs" Schumacher.

B_B
11-07-2011, 11:42 PM
OK, bringing it back on track - Busch fined $50,000 and 'on probation' for rest of season. Drop in the bucket for a guy worth about $40 million...

T.W.
11-08-2011, 02:46 PM
http://youtu.be/mnutXjBt6LU

htom
11-08-2011, 03:54 PM
Maybe he'll get some growing up done ... if he doesn't, he should be banned from the sport.

brad9798
11-08-2011, 03:58 PM
He is not worth 40 million ... but you are correct that 50k fine is not a big deal ...

What you missed, or forgot to mention, is that he had to sit out the Nationwide AND the Sprint races over the weekend ... THAT is punishment for a competitor ... more than money or shame.

NASCAR should park him for the rest of the season ... THAT would make a BIG statement on many levels:

1) he would lose a few hundred grand in income, more than likely
2) it will send a strong message to everyone else
3) his SPONSORS will demand a lot of money back from his race team ... and some will take a walk to another pit stall!

B

B_B
11-08-2011, 04:05 PM
He is not worth 40 million ...
You probably know more than these guys do - so how much is he worth?


http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/kyle-busch-net-worth/

Kyle Busch is one of Nascars top race drivers and has a net worth of $40 million. Kyle Busch has earned his net worth through his racing career and ownership of his own team, Kyle Busch Motorsports. He was born in Las Vegas Nevada and is the younger brother of Kurt Busch.

Paul Pless
11-08-2011, 04:08 PM
I think Brad's right. there'll be further off track consequences for Kyle. Coincidentally and ironically given how straight up Joe Gibbs is, he went through this with Tony Stewart for an off track fistfight. Home Depot came down pretty hard on Tony for that and I suspect Kyle Busch will face similar consequences including loss of sponsorship money, charity work and anger management counseling (which Tony went through for more than a year)

John Meachen
11-08-2011, 04:11 PM
The sponsors might be considering whether they really want to be associated with the guy.After all,the people who buy their products may desert them in droves if they believe the company is happy to continue supporting s driver who indulges in such antics.It may be more sharply focused after the recent tragic death of Dan Wheldon in a genuine accident.

PhaseLockedLoop
11-08-2011, 04:38 PM
When you consider all the good he's done, it'd be too bad if one little tantrum derailed a marvelous career. Oh, wait--has he done any good?

B_B
11-08-2011, 04:44 PM
When you consider all the good he's done, it'd be too bad if one little tantrum derailed a marvelous career. Oh, wait--has he done any good?
Lost his driver's license for going 128 mph in a 45...does that count?

brad9798
11-08-2011, 05:05 PM
Sure, he's done a LOT of good charity work ... including LOTS OF $$$$$$$$ given.

But if you or I did that in our cars, we'd be charged with a ton of crimes ... not the least of which would be attempted murder! :eek:

Chip-skiff
11-09-2011, 01:07 AM
What do you expect?

It's NASCAR, not f-ing polo. Think ice hockey in cars.

brad9798
11-09-2011, 09:24 PM
Polo is EVEN worse ... trust me. :(

johnw
11-09-2011, 09:28 PM
Ever heard of the million-dollar shot? What's in it for the horse?

brad9798
11-09-2011, 10:25 PM
Not much, johnw ... NOT MUCH!

Ted Hoppe
11-10-2011, 02:18 AM
I think NASCAR is a rigged sport set up as a soap opera for corporate messaging and identity. Much like professional wrestling. One only needs to look at the restricter plates on the cars, the inspection of winning vehicles and the way the officlals will dismiss obvious violations that are counter to fair racing.

What we are missing is throwing chairs on to the track, a gold belt and card carrying strippers...

purri
11-10-2011, 03:59 AM
^nailed it. Same as here; 2 "brands" piss poor racing at the expense of commercial branding and media froth.

Paul Pless
11-10-2011, 05:44 AM
I think NASCAR is a rigged sport set up as a soap opera for corporate messaging and identity. Much like professional wrestling. One only needs to look at the restricter plates on the cars, the inspection of winning vehicles and the way the officlals will dismiss obvious violations that are counter to fair racing.

What we are missing is throwing chairs on to the track, a gold belt and card carrying strippers...How are restrictor plates any different than the inlet restrictors on cars that compete at Le Mans or the rule limiting the size of the air intake on F1 cars?

Provide me with an example of 'an obvious violation that is counter to fair racing' that was ignored by NASCAR.


Speaking of rigged how do you feel about the additional ballast and reduced inlet restrictor size that Corvettes have to carry compared to to Porsches in the ALMS series?

Bobby of Tulsa
11-10-2011, 06:09 AM
You know that the politics of NASCAR changes daily, almost. First it was no fights then no cussin then no wrecking. Fans dropped off and money was short. So they told the drivers to go back to the old ways. Now some one whines about someone being to mean?? I think you been in the north to long.:)

Paul Pless
11-10-2011, 11:36 AM
Bump for Ted, waiting for a response to post #46. . .

B_B
11-10-2011, 11:51 AM
Bump for Ted, waiting for a response to post #46. . .
Still sick and crabby, eh? ;)

Ted Hoppe
11-10-2011, 12:30 PM
All the cars are identical, the most influential thing today is the pit crew and the small minute adjustments that are made on pit stops. The drivers have less control over the outcomes than they did compared to 10 years ago. A slight modification to a restricter plate on a large oval track... You can make up your own conclussions on who can win. I do know the Nascar race at California's Sonoma's road course is interesting but is quite challenging for the drivers and officials - whom have a harder time working out who will win. As a camera man on that course and in the pits, i have seen things that made me question the corporate racing sport. It isn't Richard Petty running from the Revenuers any more...

One needs only to look at the 2004 Dale Earnhardt Jr. win at Daytona for clear indication when he had more power to make a come from behind several lap victory from a leading Tony Stewart. Earnhardt's winning car was never looked at or broken down by race officials after the race and was boxed up for immedate removal.

And don't get me started on the Gibbs racing team and efforts. Too many people want to see a live action movie of the Disney classic cartoon Car movies...

brad9798
11-10-2011, 01:04 PM
The cars are CERTAINLY not the same, Ted ... :rolleyes:

Paul Pless
11-10-2011, 01:19 PM
All the cars are identical, the most influential thing today is the pit crew and the small minute adjustments that are made on pit stops. The drivers have less control over the outcomes than they did compared to 10 years ago. A slight modification to a restricter plate on a large oval track... You can make up your own conclussions on who can win. I do know the Nascar race at California's Sonoma's road course is interesting but is quite challenging for the drivers and officials - whom have a harder time working out who will win. As a camera man on that course and in the pits, i have seen things that made me question the corporate racing sport. It isn't Richard Petty running from the Revenuers any more...

One needs only to look at the 2004 Dale Earnhardt Jr. win at Daytona for clear indication when he had more power to make a come from behind several lap victory from a leading Tony Stewart. Earnhardt's winning car was never looked at or broken down by race officials after the race and was boxed up for immedate removal.

And don't get me started on the Gibbs racing team and efforts. Too many people want to see a live action movie of the Disney classic cartoon Car movies...So basically NASCAR cheats with their restrictor plates and the other racing sanctioning bodies do not with their 'inlet restrictors'. Despite the fact that NASCAR only uses the plates at two venues, they are the organization that is rigging the wins; while organizations like the American Le Mans Series are completely unbiased when they penalize the faster Corvettes with ballast and smaller inlet restrictors.

brad9798
11-10-2011, 02:21 PM
I hear crickets on this topic, Paul!!! :D

Ted Hoppe
11-10-2011, 07:32 PM
The chip on my shoulder is that NASCAR has dominated air time from other racing events. NASCAR did change the face of coverage of other motorized racing events whether on national broadcast or on SPEED TV.

It is a sorry thing to have the Le Mans coverage, Formula 1, AMA and MOTO GP motorcycle racing so diminished for a Home Depot billboard event. I would even venture to suggest that the various forms racing we had in the mid century post war to the 1980 can now be considered the golden age of racing. It has been a long time since the great cars such as the fabled Cobras, Ford GT40s ran at Sebring & Daytona in hopes of competing head to head against the Ferraris, Porsches and Jaguars at the fabled tracks of Monza and LeMans.

Lets face it... If Steve McQueen was around he wouldn't be going to see a NASCAR event.

johnw
11-10-2011, 07:34 PM
So, what would it take to get a new golden age?

Paul Pless
11-10-2011, 07:40 PM
I will certainly agree with you Ted that NASCAR's affiliation most especially with The Speed Network has diminished coverage of other events that I would much rather see. But one bihg contributor to NASCAR's dominance was Tony George ******* up the best racing series on the planet (CART) and turning it into a spec car series. CART for years upon years raced at great venues: high speed ovals, bull rings, natural terrain road courses, airports, and street courses with some of the greatest drivers in the world at a very high yet sustainable level. Multiple competitive chassis builders, and engine manufacturers and even a few privateers like Penske, and Trusports, and Dan Gurneys's All American Eagle Racers. When that folded NASCAR just took completely over.

Ted Hoppe
11-10-2011, 07:52 PM
So, what would it take to get a new golden age?

How about some young regular guys who liked sports cars, could build them up in their own garages and race them in sanctioned tracks. The desire goes hand in hand with the passion, lust and affordability to the common guy. Auto manufactures (both Foreign and domestic) forgot the young middle class guys who really wanted a sporty car on a budget. Instead they made POS Cameros and Mustangs that really didn't ignite the passions and imaginations of two American generations. Road and Track left the large portion of the segment to track the super cars and the middle aged lawyers and accountants that bought them...

Build, make available and race cars that fire up a young man lust then you will get the return we once saw.

I believe interestingly similar to sail and power boat trends we have seen since the public move away in the mid 80s.

Ted Hoppe
11-10-2011, 07:58 PM
I will certainly agree with you Ted that NASCAR's affiliation most especially with The Speed Network has diminished coverage of other events that I would much rather see. But one bihg contributor to NASCAR's dominance was Tony George ******* up the best racing series on the planet (CART) and turning it into a spec car series. CART for years upon years raced at great venues: high speed ovals, bull rings, natural terrain road courses, airports, and street courses with some of the greatest drivers in the world at a very high yet sustainable level. Multiple competitive chassis builders, and engine manufacturers and even a few privateers like Penske, and Trusports, and Dan Gurneys's All American Eagle Racers. When that folded NASCAR just took completely over.

It is a shame.

I want to see me in the folks involved in the racing sport. I would be the first to return to the track and renew my interest if they invited us again to be a participant rather than a removed spectator watching a rerun or reiterations of Tom Cruise's Days of Thunder.

Paul Pless
11-10-2011, 08:02 PM
So, what would it take to get a new golden age?


Build, make available and race cars that fire up a young man lust then you will get the return we once saw.John, I'm gonna disagree with Ted a little. While I agree that there needs to be a vibrant grassroots level of racing. I think the main problem wit racing at the highest levels now is that much of it is 'spec racing'. NASCAR's 'Car of Tomorrow' virtually ensures identical performance from the chassis and body, only serious wind tunnel time differentiates the cars on the fastest of tracks. The IRL just sucks on this as well. All the chassis are identical as are the engines, WTF??? Daytona protoypes have to share a common greenhouse for 'safety and cost' considerations. So the top tier of racing in America in three different types of racing: stock cars, open wheelers, and sport cars; have all made moves in the last ten years to contain costs, and its been to the detriment of the sport.

johnw
11-10-2011, 08:18 PM
The cars on the Nascar tracks are pretty much funny cars, not much relationship to "stock cars."

As it happened, I had cable when the speed network first came on, no big contracts, no real source of programs. They showed a lot of what amounted to home movies of races in the '50s and '60s and it was great! Then they started showing modern racing and it sucked. Watching a Morgan stay ahead of a Stingray on a tight road course was a lot more fun than watching a bunch of jerks run each other off the track on purpose.

Of course, I'm not the target audience, and they've become far more profitable doing what they've been doing. No doubt there are courses where amateurs race what they brung, and have a blast doing it, there just isn't a channel for it. Of course, I could get off my butt and make it to Pacific Raceways, but most of the action there is drag racing, which has never had much appeal for me. I think IRDC has like four road races a year.

Ted Hoppe
11-10-2011, 08:19 PM
We aren't that far apart Paul. Spec Racing really has put a damper on the can do and self wrenching racing we grew up on. Identical car racing was a novelty and was limited to the times you had a fellow racer on your team. Now it is the norm. As a fan, what difference does it make if you are a ford, chevy or dodge fan... it is the same car with plastic differences and corporate sponsorship decals.

To make a weak comparison... Race on Sunday and sell on Monday still works for 10k super motorbikes. Though a poor team may not be able to blue print the engine and run the best gear, most riders are still able to mix it up skill level to skill level when it comes to broadly respected racing.

John Meachen
11-11-2011, 05:57 PM
I will certainly agree with you Ted that NASCAR's affiliation most especially with The Speed Network has diminished coverage of other events that I would much rather see. But one bihg contributor to NASCAR's dominance was Tony George ******* up the best racing series on the planet (CART) and turning it into a spec car series. CART for years upon years raced at great venues: high speed ovals, bull rings, natural terrain road courses, airports, and street courses with some of the greatest drivers in the world at a very high yet sustainable level. Multiple competitive chassis builders, and engine manufacturers and even a few privateers like Penske, and Trusports, and Dan Gurneys's All American Eagle Racers. When that folded NASCAR just took completely over.

I agree with every word.The Cleveland CART race was normally the best race of the year and I recommend seeking a video of either 1993 or 1997 to anybody who enjoys a good race.Beautiful cars.

Beowolf
11-11-2011, 07:06 PM
All the cars are identical, the most influential thing today is the pit crew and the small minute adjustments that are made on pit stops. The drivers have less control over the outcomes than they did compared to 10 years ago. A slight modification to a restricter plate on a large oval track... You can make up your own conclussions on who can win. I do know the Nascar race at California's Sonoma's road course is interesting but is quite challenging for the drivers and officials - whom have a harder time working out who will win. As a camera man on that course and in the pits, i have seen things that made me question the corporate racing sport. It isn't Richard Petty running from the Revenuers any more...

One needs only to look at the 2004 Dale Earnhardt Jr. win at Daytona for clear indication when he had more power to make a come from behind several lap victory from a leading Tony Stewart. Earnhardt's winning car was never looked at or broken down by race officials after the race and was boxed up for immedate removal.

And don't get me started on the Gibbs racing team and efforts. Too many people want to see a live action movie of the Disney classic cartoon Car movies...


I believe the Daytona 500 winner is always crated up and put on display at the Daytona Museum for the year. All other race cars in all other races must pass a post race inspection.

As for the identical car issue. I can't remember when they used when they used to weld roll cages into stock chassis and bodies and I'm not that young anymore. Although I'm not a fan of the "cookie cutter" cars that they field now, I can understand the reasons for them. Namely, safety and corporate equality, at least as far as the automakers are concerned. I think that when Ford used the Taurus as there base car, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. They enjoyed the aerodynamic advantages of a long roofline, yet they were able to modify it to a coupe configuration to look more "racecarish."

ChrisBen
11-12-2011, 07:09 AM
Mars/M&Ms pulled from the 18 car for the remainder of the season (2 races), returning for the 2012 season.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
11-12-2011, 07:46 AM
Of course, such things never happen in F1...do they, Herr Schumacher?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jmKbGW7OmVg

Ross M
11-12-2011, 10:25 AM
I will certainly agree with you Ted that NASCAR's affiliation most especially with The Speed Network has diminished coverage of other events that I would much rather see. But one bihg contributor to NASCAR's dominance was Tony George ******* up the best racing series on the planet (CART) and turning it into a spec car series. CART for years upon years raced at great venues: high speed ovals, bull rings, natural terrain road courses, airports, and street courses with some of the greatest drivers in the world at a very high yet sustainable level. Multiple competitive chassis builders, and engine manufacturers and even a few privateers like Penske, and Trusports, and Dan Gurneys's All American Eagle Racers. When that folded NASCAR just took completely over.

Far too correct; it was truly brilliant racing.

I would add that the invention of Grand Am and the subsequent loss of Daytona on the IMSA (now ALMS) calendar didn't help the US racing scene much, either. They tell me the Grand Am racing is great, but I can't bring myself to watch sportscars purposely made to look like a fleet of taxi cabs.

At least international sportscar (AMLS/ACO) racing retains some competitive variety. While I cannot imagine it will be competive, the Gurney/Highcroft Racing "Delta Wing" Le Mans entry, should it actually take to the field, will certainly provide variety :-)

brad9798
11-13-2011, 10:44 PM
Kasey Kahne today ... :eek: