Apparently Progressives and Religionists were nto always at odds.

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  • Ray Frechette Jr
    Great Falls Boat Works
    • Jun 2002
    • 971

    Apparently Progressives and Religionists were nto always at odds.

    Been catching bits and pieces of Ken Burns Prohibition and did some studying a bit on the computer during some down time.

    fascinating that the Progressives of the time linked with the religious temperance societies to bring us Prohibition.

    And not all religious groups supported Prohibition. The Lutherans and Episcopalians and Catholics by and large were opposed to prohibition.

    Also of note the progressive goal of giving the vote to women made passing prohibition easier as more women were opposed to alcohol than men.
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  • Ray Frechette Jr
    Great Falls Boat Works
    • Jun 2002
    • 971

    #2
    Re: Apparently Progressives and Religionists were nto always at odds.

    Yes, but the religionist of the time working with the progressives of the time were the Baptists conventions, Methodists and such.
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    • Nicholas Carey
      Flâneur • Seattle
      • Feb 2001
      • 20369

      #3
      Re: Apparently Progressives and Religionists were nto always at odds.

      It's more complicated on that. The Temperance movement cut a deal with the pro-income tax people (you scratch my back; I'll scratch yours) to get the 16th Amendment passed. At the time (1913) the excise on alcohol provided about 1/3 of the Federal Government's entire revenue stream. The temperance folk were smart enough to realize that without a revenue stream to replace that of the excise on alcohol, prohibition was DOA in the Congress. That's one.

      Similarly, a man named Wayne B Wheeler, of the Anti-Saloon League, did the math and figured out that it would behoove the temperance movement to support the sufferage movement, calculating that female voters would be far more likely to vote for prohibition than would male voters and could come close to tipping the tide.

      The temperance movement and the anti-immigrant movement likewise found common ground: in the cities where immigrants clustered, the biergartens, bierstuben and saloons served as community centers for recent immigrants. The owner often served as a de-facto community organizer and carried some political influence. The anti-immigrant people figured that if you got rid of the saloons, you'd lessen the political power of immigrants.

      And, WWI, of course, was another force helping prohibition: distilleries were largely run by Jews; breweries by Germans.

      Daniel Okrent's book Last Call: the Rise and Fall of Prohibition goes into, I think, rather more detail about the history of Prohibition that does Ken Burns' film. Here's a quote from the NY Times review:


      The 18th Amendment was a rarity in that it limited the rights of the individual rather than the activities of the government, thereby guaranteeing a hostile reception. As such, it holds the distinction of being the only constitutional amendment ever to be repealed. Which leads one to ask: How did this happen in the first place? Why would Americans curtail their precious right to drink?

      "Last Call," by Daniel Okrent, provides the sobering answers. Okrent, the author of four previous books and the first public editor of The New York Times, views Prohibition as one skirmish in a larger war waged by small-town white Protestants who felt besieged by the forces of change then sweeping their nation — a theory first proposed by the historian Richard Hofstadter more than five decades ago. Though much has been written about Prohibition since then, Okrent offers a remarkably original account, showing how its proponents combined the nativist fears of many Americans with legitimate concerns about the evils of alcohol to mold a movement powerful enough to amend the United States Constitution



      Sound familiar?
      “The big joke on democracy is that it gives its mortal enemies the tools to its own destruction,” Goebbels said as the Nazis rose to power—one of those quotes that sound apocryphal but are not.​
      — Adam Gopnik

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      • Ray Frechette Jr
        Great Falls Boat Works
        • Jun 2002
        • 971

        #4
        Re: Apparently Progressives and Religionists were nto always at odds.

        ""Although it was highly controversial, Prohibition was widely supported by diverse groups. Progressives believed that it would improve society as generally did women, southerners, those living in rural areas and African-Americans. There were a few exceptions such as the Woman’s Organization for Prohibition Reform who fought against it. Will Rogers often joked about the southern pro-prohibitionists: "The South is dry and will vote dry. That is, everybody sober enough to stagger to the polls."""
        Wikipedia article

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        • Ray Frechette Jr
          Great Falls Boat Works
          • Jun 2002
          • 971

          #5
          Re: Apparently Progressives and Religionists were nto always at odds.

          I also found it interesting that Soda Manufacturers and Tea sellers were behind the push for Prohibition since they figured it would grow "their " business.

          Apparently it was legal to ferment your own wine and hard cider at home for home use during prohibition.

          "While the manufacture, sale and transport of alcohol was illegal in the U.S., Section 29 of the Volstead Act allowed the making at home of wine and cider from fruit (but not beer). Up to 200 gallons per year could be made, and some vineyards grew grapes for home use. "

          And I wonder why it is still illegal to distill your own hard liquor yourself for personal consumption....

          US per capita consumption of whiskey was 5 gallons per person pre prohibition. Wow. I can't imagine drinking 1 gallon of whiskey per year.
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