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David W Pratt
09-29-2011, 04:40 PM
Well, once more I come before you, intellectual hat in hand. In History and the Sea, next week we will be talking about the Lusitania, I am sure some of you have wonderful guidance to offer.
Thanks in advance.

S.V. Airlie
09-29-2011, 04:45 PM
What can we ague about? Be specific...:)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-29-2011, 04:57 PM
Can I talk about the Mauretania, instead?

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/mystery12-1.jpg


Launching...




http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/mystery13-1.jpg?t=1253542520

fitting out...

note the Scotch boiler going in on the floating crane..




http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/Mystery14.jpg?t=1253542098

fitting out... lifeboats still being painted in the boatshop...

S.V. Airlie
09-29-2011, 04:58 PM
Yup...

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-29-2011, 05:03 PM
more Mauretania:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Mauretaniastabbs.jpg


trials:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Mauretania.jpg
maiden voyage...

AndyG
09-29-2011, 05:04 PM
One of the best models of the Mauretania I've seen was this one (http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/misc/liners/600-Mauretania-jb/jb-review.html) made by Jim Baumann at 1/600th scale. 40cm. In dazzle camouflage (http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/misc/liners/600-Mauretania-jb/Img_4677.jpg), no less!

Andy

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-29-2011, 05:06 PM
The End:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Olympic_and_Mauretania.jpg

of the two Good Sisters; that's the Olympic ahead of her, on the lay up berth at Southampton waiting for their final voyages to the breakers' yards.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-29-2011, 05:08 PM
and in Cunard Line advertising:

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/Mystery16.jpg

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-29-2011, 05:25 PM
Sorry for hijacking your thread; I've stopped now.

But they were a wonderful pair of ships.

Aquitania ("The Ship Beautiful") even more so, of course...

ishmael
09-29-2011, 05:49 PM
The British built some magnificent ships; emblems of a worldwide empire.

I've only travelled by ship once, and that was just a car ferry across Lake Michigan, but it was special. Out of sight of land a different ethos takes hold. As the Rose character says of Titanic, "She was a ship of dreams."

I have no interest in the floating hotels that pass for ships these days, but give me a chance at one of the great Atlantic liners and I'm there.

P.S. My father, who travelled a great deal by both ship and plane for his work, once passed on to me a beautiful model of what was probably the last great Atlantic liner, the SS United States. I wish I still had it, but you know how kids are with toys. This was maybe two and half feet long, with a plexiglass case, and belonged on a mantel not in some careless boy's toy bin.

Gerarddm
09-30-2011, 12:08 AM
One conspiracy theory is that Churchill, then head of the Admiralty, dangled her as a fat target in order to ensure she was sunk and Americans killed, therby goading America in war against the Kaiser.

WX
09-30-2011, 12:41 AM
The Normandie stole the limelight of the inter war big ships with her clean lines and lack of deck clutter.
http://www.oceanlinermuseum.co.uk/SS%20Normandie.jpg

varadero
09-30-2011, 01:14 AM
When my father moved to South Africa for work in 1970, The family travelled with dog, packed tea chests, etc. on board the S.A.Vaal, at the time part of the Union Castle line. We returned 5 years later by the same metheod. The two passages are a strong part of my childhood memory. Sitting aft watching the wake stretch out, the boarding and departure from Southampton waving to the family as the lines were cast off. My life would be missing somthing had those trips not been taken.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-30-2011, 01:45 AM
One conspiracy theory is that Churchill, then head of the Admiralty, dangled her as a fat target in order to ensure she was sunk and Americans killed, therby goading America in war against the Kaiser.

Absolute bollox of the lowest sort. Churchill had no control over merchant ship sailings - there was no convoy system, remember? She sailed according to her owners' schedule. And Churchill being half American himself and extremelypro-American at a time when such views were popular less popular than now, was unlikely to deliberately murder several hundred women and children.

Just to forestall the next canard - the reason that she sank so quickly was not that she was carrying vast amounts of munitions but that her system of internal subdivision was very much inferior to that of the TITANIC, BRITTANIC and OLYMPIC.

WX
09-30-2011, 02:58 AM
Also the torpedo hit and empty coal bunker and the igniting gas/ coal dust help blow a good sized hole in her.
http://www.maritimequest.com/liners/lusitania/15_lusitania.JPG

Larks
09-30-2011, 04:06 AM
that's an amazing image!!!

PeterSibley
09-30-2011, 04:20 AM
Seeing we seem to be experiencing a bit of thread drift I'll post a photo of the ship on which I learned to walk at one year then recrossed the Tasman at age twelve .MS Wanganella, a tiny 9500 ton but outfitted like a Edwardian hotel when I was aboard her. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Wanganella.

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL282/9443996/17245530/398707643.jpg

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-30-2011, 04:50 AM
Drifting a bit further in the same direction, here's my equivalent, the "Britannia" of Swedish Lloyd, which, with her identical sister, "Suecia", ran the Tilbury/ Gothenburg service from 1929 until 1966, with a six year break of course. At the age of 37 they were both sold to Hellenic Mediterranean Lines and ran till 1973. The last ship that I was seasick aboard - I was four and I remember very clearly breaking a glass of orange juice in the oak panelled dining saloon by taking a bite shaped piece out of the rim, then feeling, and being, seasick, probably due to the shock. Half the size of the Wanganella at 4661 GT and 376 ft long. My parents commuted to Sweden, where they were posted, aboard her, until I was five.

http://www.timetableimages.com/maritime/images/svl50i2.jpg

Phillip Allen
09-30-2011, 05:13 AM
apparently she was used as a depth charge target (practice) somewhere along the way

WX
09-30-2011, 07:46 AM
She carried rifle ammunition and small arms cargo. The info on the coal bunker explosion came from a documentary on an exploratory dive of the wreck.

S.V. Airlie
09-30-2011, 07:50 AM
Coal dust was obviously explosive and if there is any kind of spark or small incendiary device, boom..Any analogies wit the US Maine? Comparisions...? There have been documentaries on her too. If nothing else, both precipitated a war in part. Don't forget the German communications with Mexico.

WX
09-30-2011, 08:01 AM
Coal dust was obviously explosive and if there is any kind of spark or small incendiary device, boom..Any analogies wit the US Maine? Comparisions...? There have been documentaries on her too. If nothing else, both precipitated a war in part. Don't forget the German communications with Mexico.
Yes and didn't they do that badly?

S.V. Airlie
09-30-2011, 08:04 AM
I'd call it a backfire...LOL

SamSam
09-30-2011, 02:46 PM
One conspiracy theory is that Churchill, then head of the Admiralty, dangled her as a fat target in order to ensure she was sunk and Americans killed, therby goading America in war against the Kaiser.I was going to comment on how often ships seemed to be used as bait...Remember the Maine, the Maddox, Pearl Harbor. I'm sure there were others.

S.V. Airlie
09-30-2011, 02:53 PM
The Maine is a better comparison..

Phillip Allen
09-30-2011, 06:16 PM
I was going to comment on how often ships seemed to be used as bait...Remember the Maine, the Maddox, Pearl Harbor. I'm sure there were others.
I kain't spell the name but it was HMS Lepord what did the deed..."Remember sthe USS Whatsit"

SamSam
09-30-2011, 10:28 PM
I kain't seill the mame but it was HMS Leport what did the deed..."Remember sthe USS Whatsit"??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake–Leopard_Affair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake%E2%80%93Leopard_Affair)

Phillip Allen
10-01-2011, 08:04 AM
??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake–Leopard_Affair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake%E2%80%93Leopard_Affair)

I have terrible problems with my shakey hands these days... I forgot to pdroof read I guess (note the way "proof" is spelled, a direct result of a too sensitive keyboard)

David W Pratt
10-01-2011, 10:15 AM
Thanks all.
It seems that the pattern of suspected, but unproven sacrifice of a major ship to influence public opinion is wide spread.

S.V. Airlie
10-01-2011, 10:19 AM
Yellow Journalism at its best...

SamSam
10-01-2011, 12:47 PM
Thanks all.
It seems that the pattern of suspected, but unproven sacrifice of a major ship to influence public opinion is wide spread.Hmmm. Not quite sure what you mean as far as serious/sarcasm. We're you looking for physical history of the ship, like how many rivets, voyages made, owners, etc or is political history what you're after, or a mix?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-01-2011, 01:05 PM
Also my thought. She was a pretty good ship and spent eight years doing what she was designed to do. The technical breakthrough represented by these ships, much the biggest turbine ships built at a time when the turbine was in its infancy, was huge. They were Boeing 707s competing with DC4s. Also worth noting was JP Morgan's attempt to obtain a monopoly of the North Atlantic passenger trade and the national responses to that of Germany and Britain, including the "soft loan" finance for the Lusitania and the Mauretania and the operating subsidy paid for them, as well as the mail contract. This was because Morgan had terrified everybody by snapping up Leyland, White Star and CGM and then bidding for Cunard.

ishmael
10-01-2011, 04:18 PM
That's a nice artist's rendition of a ROV (remote operated vehicle) sniffing around the wreck of the Lusitania.

I'm sure I can Google it, but any news on the attempt to revive "United States?" She has probably gone off to the wrecking yard.

Who wants to spend five days at sea, when you can spend five hours in a plane?

Each generation always suffers the losses of the last, and they are often false lamentations, but the loss of these ships should be heeded.

Bob Adams
10-01-2011, 04:25 PM
I'm sure I can Google it, but any news on the attempt to revive "United States?" She has probably gone off to the wrecking yard.



She has not. A group of preservationists have bought her. Something special about a ship that big that can do 22 knots in reverse!