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Bobcat
09-26-2011, 12:18 PM
I have a small 8 x 12 foot shed that I use as a shop. It's got electricity, but not a lot. What say you about a heat source for when I am working there? I would like to keep as much floor space as possible.

Marine bulkhead heater? If so, what fuel?

Paul Pless
09-26-2011, 12:23 PM
ceiling or wall mount gas fired infrared radiant heater

yzer
09-26-2011, 12:42 PM
Low cost solution? Mr Heater (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/Mr-Heater-Wall-Mount-Buddy-Heater.aspx?a=405027&pm2d=CSE-SPG-3-GOOGLE&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse) wall mount version (non vented) with an outboard propane bottle. Downside: moisture production from burning propane.

Bobcat
09-26-2011, 12:59 PM
Mr. Heater may be the way to go

How much water does it make in the air

Is there a similar device that is vented

Norman, I think I would be tripping over the torpedo heater

yzer
09-26-2011, 01:04 PM
Moisture from Mr. Heater has never been a problem for me but I use the floor model in a two car garage and don't need for more than several hours of heating at a time. They can put out a lot of heat. I usually run mine on the low heat setting.

Canoez
09-26-2011, 01:14 PM
Gaseous or liquid fuel heaters will produce excess moisture if they are non-vented items. Small wood stoves (because they are vented) tend to be "dry heat".

Don't forget to think about safety when using solvents and such around the flames!

Norm - I thought the use of any kerosene heaters was verboten in Massachusetts?

Canoez
09-26-2011, 01:31 PM
FYI :
Unvented kerosene heaters are illegal in Massachusetts because they are so dangerous, but if you shop in neighboring states they may be for sale legally. Be safe and leave them out of state. They pose not only a fire risk, but also produce carbon monoxide (http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopsterminal&L=8&L0=Home&L1=Public+Safety+Agencies&L2=Massachusetts+Department+of+Fire+Services&L3=Department+of+Fire+Services&L4=Office+of+the+State+Fire+Marshal&L5=Public+Education&L6=Fire+Safety+Topics&L7=FS+Topics&sid=Eeops&b=terminalcontent&f=dfs_osfm_pubed_firesafetytopics_co_pubed&csid=Eeops). - Office of Public Safety and Security (http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopsterminal&L=8&L0=Home&L1=Public+Safety+Agencies&L2=Massachusetts+Department+of+Fire+Services&L3=Department+of+Fire+Services&L4=Office+of+the+State+Fire+Marshal&L5=Public+Education&L6=Fire+Safety+Topics&L7=FS+Topics&sid=Eeops&b=terminalcontent&f=dfs_osfm_pubed_firesafetytopics_keep_warm_keep_s afe&csid=Eeops)

I'm sure their concern is regularly occupied residential dwellings, not so much "auxiliary spaces", but that's the way the statement reads.

yzer
09-26-2011, 01:36 PM
There are quite a few Mr. Heater models available now. Some will do 400K BTU.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_mr.-heater?seeAll=1&cm_sp=See%20All%20Links-_-Brands-_-Mr.%20Heater

Bobcat
09-26-2011, 01:36 PM
Thanks for the information. It rarely gets cold, really cold in Seattle, but it's damp, very damp. A vented heater would be better, but not if I have to hire a plumber or installer.

yzer
09-26-2011, 01:55 PM
If a damp climate is an issue it might make more sense to run a dedicated circuit out to the shed that will handle the load. Install a wall mounted electric ceramic heater or such.

Bobcat
09-26-2011, 02:15 PM
If a damp climate is an issue it might make more sense to run a dedicated circuit out to the shed that will handle the load. Install a wall mounted electric ceramic heater or such.

Without going into details, let me just say that this is not an option.

Tylerdurden
09-26-2011, 03:21 PM
Lp or kero unvented dump moisture into the air. I would consider a modine forced Lp heater or a Infared tube heater . For your purpose you could get 30-40 k Btu for under a grand. Venting and install would set you back some more.

ishmael
09-26-2011, 05:49 PM
That's a pretty small space. Um, a small wood stove tucked into a corner might work. With proper shielding you can put one quite close to the wall, and depending on how much scrap you are generating you'd have a ready source of fuel.

Monkey Butler
09-26-2011, 06:56 PM
Thanks, I was unaware of that... although I'm going to have to presume that their sale is not technically illegal, since they can still be purchased in Massachusetts. I can easily see the overwhelming hazard of some idiot trying to use one of these things inside a home...which has gotta be a really dumb move.

I think I'll be even MORE careful this winter!

Nope, they are downright illegal to sell in Mass. and I think you will find that they have disappeared from the shelves. Funny thing is that when I needed a part for my 60k Reddy I found a rental place in Milford that had it in stock, as well as plenty of complete heaters available to rent.

Bobcat
09-26-2011, 07:04 PM
That's a pretty small space. Um, a small wood stove tucked into a corner might work. With proper shielding you can put one quite close to the wall, and depending on how much scrap you are generating you'd have a ready source of fuel.

I agree that a wood stove would work, but they're frowned upon in the city. And I found out that you can't just go buy a cheap stove like I used to do 30 years ago. They're now certified to reduce air pollution. The days of buying a $25 sheet metal airtight or a $20 cast iron potbelly stove are gone

Canoeyawl
09-26-2011, 07:13 PM
Take a look at Graingers.
I have a much larger version of this one (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HOUSEWARMER-Wall-Furnace-2RCH4?Pid=search) in my 1000sf shop.
But, For your tiny shop and the same money, a diesel fired bulkhead mounted boat stove would be a good way to go I think.

http://images.grainger.com/B343_23/images/products/250x250/Wall-Furnace-2RCH3_AS01.JPG

Bobcat
09-26-2011, 07:16 PM
Take a look at Graingers.
I have a much larger version of this one (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HOUSEWARMER-Wall-Furnace-2RCH4?Pid=search) in my 1000sf shop.
But, For your tiny shop and the same money, a diesel fired bulkhead mounted boat stove would be a good way to go I think.


http://images.grainger.com/B343_23/images/products/250x250/Wall-Furnace-2RCH3_AS01.JPG


Not only that, but it would be cool, adding a bit of nautical flare

Paul Pless
09-27-2011, 11:59 AM
And I found out that you can't just go buy a cheap stove like I used to do 30 years ago. They're now certified to reduce air pollution. The days of buying a $25 sheet metal airtight or a $20 cast iron potbelly stove are goneCraigslist. Katherine and I have bought three wood burning stove in the last two years off of craigslist. The most expensive of the three was $100.00. One, my 150,000 btu forced air shop stove was free.

Bobcat
09-27-2011, 12:25 PM
Craigslist. Katherine and I have bought three wood burning stove in the last two years off of craigslist. The most expensive of the three was $100.00. One, my 150,000 btu forced air shop stove was free.

I agree they're out there. You just can't buy one at the local hardware store like you could in the '70's

Paul Pless
09-27-2011, 12:30 PM
Tractor Supply has these cast iron stoves starting at around $150.00.

http://akamai.edeal.com/images/catalog16754/folder105282/img9652697med.jpg

They have a reasonable looking pot belly stove for around $400.00. They also have sheet metal and barrel stoves available assembled or as kits for much less.

brad9798
09-27-2011, 12:33 PM
Anything but kerosene ... kerosene makes me sick after a while ...

SMARTINSEN
09-27-2011, 12:43 PM
Tractor Supply is one of my favorite stores :) Having said that, I believe that the state of Washington has very strict regulations about wood stoves that basically say that they have to be EPA certified for emissions if one is to get a building permit for installation.

That 75,000 BTU blast furnace that Norman shows above works well but blows dust all over the place--I had one in CT, but it is overkill for a tiny shop in Seattle's relatively warm winters weather. I am thinking that the Mr. Heater option is the way to go. You can run it with a 5lb propane tank, too if you like, it would last you all winter.

Bobcat
09-27-2011, 12:45 PM
Tractor Supply is one of my favorite stores :) Having said that, I believe that the state of Washington has very strict regulations about wood stoves that basically say that they have to be EPA certified for emissions if one is to get a building permit for installation.

That 75,000 BTU blast furnace that Norman shows above works well but blows dust all over the place--I had one in CT, but it is overkill for a tiny shop in Seattle's relatively warm winters weather. I am thinking that the Mr. Heater option is the way to go. You can run it with a 5lb propane tank, too if you like, it would last you all winter.

Correct about the regulations and permits.

I am thinking that Mr. Heater will be the way to go, unless I can find a 2nd hand bulkhead heater.

Canoeyawl
09-27-2011, 01:11 PM
http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/for/2617610977.html

Force10 kerosene / diesel marine bulkhead heater.

Includes 2 gallon pressurized tank, fittings, tank strap, and approximately 2' of 1" diameter stainless exhaust standpipe. Deck fitting is not included

$250 for all - FIRM

http://images.craigslist.org/5V25Z55X03k33mf3p4b9pd5c919462b6f1f78.jpg

Bobcat
09-27-2011, 01:35 PM
http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/for/2617610977.html

Force10 kerosene / diesel marine bulkhead heater.

Includes 2 gallon pressurized tank, fittings, tank strap, and approximately 2' of 1" diameter stainless exhaust standpipe. Deck fitting is not included

$250 for all - FIRM

http://images.craigslist.org/5V25Z55X03k33mf3p4b9pd5c919462b6f1f78.jpg


Thanks I missed that one because it was not listed in "boats"

That may do it.

Canoeyawl
09-27-2011, 02:40 PM
I hope you get it, it looks perfect for your little shop...

brad9798
09-27-2011, 03:18 PM
Kerosene still is nasty ... just saying ...

skuthorp
09-27-2011, 03:53 PM
Got a little wood stove made from truck rims, gets red hot and runs on scraps and stuff that falls out of the trees all the time.

Bobcat
09-27-2011, 04:11 PM
Got a little wood stove made from truck rims, gets red hot and runs on scraps and stuff that falls out of the trees all the time.

Truck rims? Got a photo?

coelacanth2
09-27-2011, 08:39 PM
As Ive mentioned in a couple of otherposts, kero heaters in the garage gave me wicked headaches after a couple of hours. Go with the gas. One of those Mr Heater "Big Buddy" heaters will run forever on low on a 20 lb tank and probably heat the shop nicely. Or, spend the money for a wall unit (vented for dryness) and realize the greater comfort over the years.

Bobcat
10-13-2011, 01:31 PM
Anyone used a Force 10 Cozy Cabin propane heater?

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/2646744399.html

StevenBauer
10-13-2011, 02:06 PM
A Tiny Tot is only $229. How much could the piping be?

http://www.fatscostoves.com/images/StovePictures/TTNoRailOpen.jpg


http://www.fatscostoves.com/


http://seanf.smugmug.com/photos/73460219-L-1.jpg

Badger
10-13-2011, 09:21 PM
I live in Minnesota and am completing a 8' x 12' work shop in the garage and will be buying a Stanley #675900 electric utility from Menards for about $50.00 115 volt with fan. To make the shop confortable I laid 1" thick closed cell styrofoam 4'x8' sheets of insulation over the concrete floor slab, then laid 1/2" 4' x 8' CDX plywood over it. Bring on winter.

Paul Pless
10-28-2011, 08:41 AM
I'm running the heater for the first time, this morning. When I fired it up, a little over an hour ago, it was 38F in here, and it's 50F now. Very toasty, with the heater glowing at one end of the shop, and the sun streaming in through the roof.Y>That sounds comfortable, don't need much above fifty if you are working and your feet are warm. Even in a warm shop, a cold floor can be miserable. . .

Bobcat
10-28-2011, 12:15 PM
The ventless combustion heaters "make water" in the air, but what does that mean in a practical sense? I live in a climate that is damp anyway. Will I just notice that the air is not getting drier or will the humidity go up if I use such a heater?

stromborg
10-28-2011, 01:21 PM
I've been messing around with different heat sources in my shop (across the water on Bainbridge) for a few years now.

Kerosene was smelly and left soot behind, it needed to be started outside and allowed to come up to working temperature before coming in because of all the smoke coming off the wick.

A portable propane burning heater worked fairly well although it too had an odor, no where near as bad as the kerosene though.

I think the biggest problem with both of these was condensation on tools and projects because of the temperature swings I was getting by heating the shop and then letting it cool down overnight. A pair of electric oil-filled radiators helped smooth out the swings but are expensive to run. Considering the size of your shop they might be just fine (I was working with 450 square feet of shop space).

There are a couple of Mr Heater 45k units hanging in my shops now, I'll let you know how it goes in a few weeks after I get a plumber in here to run the gas lines.

Properly installed, with ample clearance woodstoves take up a lot of space, you'll lose a big chunk of your 8x12 workshop to one. Also, (putting my Seattle fire fighter hat on) the good citizens of Seattle are very quick to rat out their neighbors if they think somebody is burning illegally. What's an illegal burn? When the Puget Sound Air Quality folks issue a burn ban you can't burn unless it is your sole source of residential heat, burning scrap lumber or tree trimmings and trash are out too. We get a lot of calls on firepits too, the secret is to have a package of hotdogs and some skewers nearby, then it is a "cooking fire" and if it is with certain size limitations OK. Ceremonial fire are OK too...freedom of religion and all that...I carry informational bulletins on my fire engine to educate both the burners and complainers.

Steve

Paul Pless
10-29-2011, 06:20 AM
I'm out in the shop early this morning. By the end of the day my goal is to have my Ashley wood stove going.

125,00 BTU's of pure love for my freezin' butt.

http://images1.americanlisted.com/nlarge/ashley_wood_burning_stove_w_blower_275_kingsville_ 8984293.jpg

Paul Pless
10-29-2011, 06:42 AM
34.4F in Hell this morning. You should probably wait until it gets cold to mess with the stove.Yeah, its not the 34.4F that I'm concerned about, its the imminent 15.0F that really messes with me.

Paul Pless
10-29-2011, 06:48 AM
http://www.toocooldude.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/hell-froze.jpg

Todd D
10-29-2011, 08:33 AM
I heat my 12x16 shop with a 1,000 watt portable electric baseboard heater. It runs off 110VAC and has a variable output. I generally set it between 125 and 250 watts at night depending on the forecast overnight temp. I turn it up to about 500 watts during the day. It heats my shop very well. At full output it will heat the shop to over 80 on a 10F day. I do have some insulation though. The shop has fully insulated double 2x4 walls, 4" of foam board in the floor and 12" of fiberglass under the roof. I have an insulated door and triple pane windows.

Bobcat
10-29-2011, 11:05 AM
I've been messing around with different heat sources in my shop (across the water on Bainbridge) for a few years now.

Kerosene was smelly and left soot behind, it needed to be started outside and allowed to come up to working temperature before coming in because of all the smoke coming off the wick.

A portable propane burning heater worked fairly well although it too had an odor, no where near as bad as the kerosene though.

I think the biggest problem with both of these was condensation on tools and projects because of the temperature swings I was getting by heating the shop and then letting it cool down overnight. A pair of electric oil-filled radiators helped smooth out the swings but are expensive to run. Considering the size of your shop they might be just fine (I was working with 450 square feet of shop space).

There are a couple of Mr Heater 45k units hanging in my shops now, I'll let you know how it goes in a few weeks after I get a plumber in here to run the gas lines.

Properly installed, with ample clearance woodstoves take up a lot of space, you'll lose a big chunk of your 8x12 workshop to one. Also, (putting my Seattle fire fighter hat on) the good citizens of Seattle are very quick to rat out their neighbors if they think somebody is burning illegally. What's an illegal burn? When the Puget Sound Air Quality folks issue a burn ban you can't burn unless it is your sole source of residential heat, burning scrap lumber or tree trimmings and trash are out too. We get a lot of calls on firepits too, the secret is to have a package of hotdogs and some skewers nearby, then it is a "cooking fire" and if it is with certain size limitations OK. Ceremonial fire are OK too...freedom of religion and all that...I carry informational bulletins on my fire engine to educate both the burners and complainers.

Steve


I grew up with wood heat and even a small stove takes a lot of floor space. A small stove is a pain too because it only takes small pieces of wood. I agree that the wood smoke in the city is a problem. I have written off wood heat.

I am going to try a Mr. heater and if there's too much humidity I will go with a vented propane heater.