If you were going to own just one (or a few) planes

[potomac]

I don't presently own a hand plane and need one. I am thinking a block plane, but was at Home Depot today and saw a power plane from Makita and wondered if anyone had an opinion. If you wouldn't go this direction, what would you get? I know some of the big names, but would love to hear personal favorites. It would be used on plywood quite a bit, but solid stock too. Mostly for boat building, but other uses around the house. I know someone will say that I should just go to garage sales and find an old Stanley, but I don't think that's realistic for me (everyone hears this advice and is looking for the same plane, presupposes that the seller doesn't know what they have, presupposes that I know what they have and can differentiate between it and a less-accurate or more modern version, presupposes that I have lots of time to go to lots of garage sales). All these presuppositions are incorrect in my case.

[Paul Pless]

budget?

[potomac]

My experience is that cheap is often expensive (in the long run). I have never bought expensive and wished I bought cheaper, but the opposite is not true. $100-$150 for a tool that will last and be useful for a long time. Is that too inexpensive?

[SMARTINSEN]

1 plane? Stanley 60-1/2 on EBay for less than $50. If you are lucky, much less.


The next one I would get would be a Stanley #5 from the same place, but it might cost you only just a few bucks more. After that, and having used them for a while, you would be able to decide what should come next.


Like clamps,..........

[Paul Pless]

My experience is that cheap is often expensive (in the long run). I have never bought expensive and wished I bought cheaper, but the opposite is not true. $100-$150 for a tool that will last and be useful for a long time. Is that too inexpensive?

Lie Nielsen low angle block plane. Hands down no brainer.

[Hunky Dory]

I just bought a nice block plane on ebay for 9 bucks and anoughter 5 to ship. Just had to clean it up and sharpen it works fine.

[StevenBauer]

The Lee Valley planes are really a good value. The apron plane is a good starter at $85. Their low angle block plane is a bit more at $139.

[P-man]

1 plane? Stanley 60-1/2 on EBay for less than $50. If you are lucky, much less.


The next one I would get would be a Stanley #5 from the same place, but it might cost you only just a few bucks more. After that, and having used them for a while, you would be able to decide what should come next.



Like clamps,..........

i just picked up a 60 1/2 for about $28. it had a little surface rust, but a few minutes with some steel wool took care of that. sharpened the iron and it's good to go. don't limit your search to "Stanley 60 1/2". some people don't know what they have.

perry

[John Meachen]

Stanley No 4,a 9 1/2 and a 90 will do almost everything you are ever likely to want to do.

[TerryLL]

Another vote for the Stanley 60-1/2 low angle block plane. It's the only plane I owned when building my first 4 boats. If you can only afford one, get this one first.

http://lostartpress.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/stanley6012_img_3369.jpg?w=640

[SMARTINSEN]

Lie Nielsen low angle block plane. Hands down no brainer.

I have both. The steel for the cutter is better on the Lie Nielsen, but I like the fit and feel in my hand better with the Stanley. It is not such a big deal if it happens to get dropped on a cement floor, and it is lighter, too, if you are going to be carrying it around in your pocket. For me, I suppose that the best of both worlds would be to get a Hock iron for the Stanley. YMMV,but I digress just a bit.

A power planer like the Makita is not the tool to do beveling or trimming to a line on soft marine plywood which is done just fine by hand.

[Canoeyawl]

search>ebay>"stanley plane"

There is not really any one plane that will do every thing, but a little old Stanley is a good start. Beware it is habit forming

Here's one
$5 bucks will be gone in 58 minutes

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VINTAGE-STANLEY-No-110-7-BLOCK-PLANE-TOOL-/00/s/MjQ4WDU0MQ==/$(KGrHqV,!k8E5YL1iEz0BOY(C!2z(!~~60_3.JPG

[potomac]

you convinced me. bidding now. thanks.

[Canoeyawl]

$20 bucks with the box?
This looks like a good buy

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Stanley-No-5-Wood-Plane-/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqZ,!jQE5cKFsz(CBOZBqM!YL!~~60_3.JPG

[potomac]

canoeyawl- if there is a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other- which are you? Thanks.

[Canoez]

Another vote for the Stanley 60-1/2 low angle block plane. It's the only plane I owned when building my first 4 boats. If you can only afford one, get this one first.

http://lostartpress.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/stanley6012_img_3369.jpg?w=640

If you are buying new, these are not what they used to be. I own two of different vintages (say, about 10 years apart, but relatively new...) The first one is great. The second one is trash, frankly - it will not hold an adjustment and the cam on the lever cap pops out very easily. However, if you could find an older one at a tag sale, flea-market or online, I think it would be fine with a little tuning.

[StevenBauer]

If you are going to buy a new Stanley the WoodenBoat Store sells the Sweetheart line. The 60 1/2 Sweetheart is $105. That regular 60 1/2 in Terry's picture costs $36.50 at Lee Valley.


Steven

[Scott Rosen]

Lie Nielsen low angle block plane. Hands down no brainer.
Lie Nielsen makes a low angle block rabbet plane which is an amazingly useful and versatile tool. It's the plane I go to most often

[Canoeyawl]

canoeyawl- if there is a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other- which are you? Thanks.

Ahhh - That devil (or Angel) is all yours, I have my own.

You were warned ... "Beware it is habit forming"

[potomac]

So I rather overwhelmingly heard the "go manual hand tool, not power" consensus and picked up a Stanley No. 5 and a number 220 for a good price on ebay. I have a bid on a 60 1/2 and hope to get one in the next couple days. This is fun. Just what I need- another collection (at least I can use these considerably more than the myriad long guns I have). Anyone want to buy a Sako Finnbear? (sorry, wrong forum) Seriously, does anyone have a favorite process and or product for sharpening? Any advice would be much appreciated as is the advice already given.

[Paul Pless]

Seriously, does anyone have a favorite process and or product for sharpening? Its kinda rude to bring up politics and religion in this part of the forum.;)

[Lew Barrett]

I find sharpening small tools with water stones is therapeutic. Others prefer oil or scary sharp approaches, but water stones are my preference.

Posted from Port Townsend boat show, where Festool and Lie Nielson hold court daily.

[Skegemog]

hard to beat the Tormek water wheel system to keep edge tools sharp day in and day out

[Canoeyawl]

That #5 looked like a very good buy for a worker plane. ;)

I'll just mention here that the Stanley #3 is probably my favorite.

Waterstones, you need at least three.
800, 1200, 5000
Keep them in a tupperware container full of water.

I have never looked at ebay for stones until now, but $2.00... wtf?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/King-Deluxe-sharpening-Stone-/150660012249?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23140958d9
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/King-Deluxe-sharpening-Stone-/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/$(KGrHqUOKjUE5RbbyUGlBOZ6kCOkLQ~~60_12.JPG

[Paul Pless]

Keep them in a tupperware container full of water.This worked for me in Alabama, not so much in Hell.

[Canoeyawl]

Did all the water boil away?

[Paul Pless]

Did all the water boil away?Maybe it will this year, I've added about 150,000 BTU's of wood burning stove to a 25' x 30' shop. . .

[Bruce Hooke]

First off, what planes you get should really be driven but how you plan to use them. Boatbuilding can mean a lot of things. If we are talking about shaping a big hunk of wood into a section of deadwood for a 30 foot sloop then a block plane is going to be useless and a power plane very useful. On the other hand, if we are talking about a small plywood boat then a block plane is a good place to start and a power plane would be all but useless. After a block plane I would get a smooth plane (#4) (also called a smoothing plane).

As to sharpening, everyone needs to find their own system that works for them. If you are buying used planes you can expect to spend more on sharpening equipment than on the planes. Here is what I use for sharpening:

1. Slow speed grinder (here is an example (http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2080939/29437/8in-Slow-Speed-Grinder.aspx)). While you could replace this with a course sharpening stone you will get the job done a lot faster if you can afford a slow speed grinder to do the rough sharpening and if you are planing much plywood you will be doing a lot of sharpening. I do not feel that the water cooled systems are really necessary as long as you can get a slow speed grinder (1725 rpm). Do not get the Delta water cooled grinder (23-700). It is all but useless. Most of my other big power tools are Delta and I am very happy with them but you will fall asleep waiting for the 23-700 to do anything useful.

2. From the slow speed grinder I go to a 1200 grit water stone. To work well this stone needs to be stored in water. This can be a problem if your shop drops below freezing. Freezing a wet water stone (even a stone that is just wet and not stored in water) will ruin it. If you can't keep the stones above freezing then you may need to go to oil stones but my experience is that oil stones are slower than water stones.

3. From there I go to a fine waterstone (something in the range of 6000 grit). This stone does not need to be stored in water, but does need to have water put on it before you use it. It will work much better if you rub the stone with a Nagura Stone.

4. Finally, you need some way to keep the water stones flat. Water stones work quickly but also get dished out relatively quickly, which makes them useless for sharpening until you flatten them again. You can do this with silicon carbide sandpaper placed on a sheet of plate glass. This is the low cost route. A faster, easier, cleaner route is to get a relatively course diamond stone. Just make sure the diamond stone is dead flat (my first diamond stone was the style that is based on a steel plate and it had some curve to it and is useless for flattening). I like the Duo-Sharp system, with the plastic base which makes it really easy to apply the diamond stone to the water stone.

You will get lots of controversy over this, but you can also consider using one of the honing guides that hold the plane iron at a steady angle while you sharpening it. Some will say you should learn to sharpen without a honing guide. I'm of the opinion that you should use whatever approach works best for you.

If you are new to sharpening planes it really would be helpful to get someone who is good at sharpening planes to show you how to do it. To work well you will need to sharpen your planes after a couple of hours of use (or even more often) so it is important to get good at this task.

[Bruce Hooke]

search>ebay>"stanley plane"

There is not really any one plane that will do every thing, but a little old Stanley is a good start. Beware it is habit forming

Here's one
$5 bucks will be gone in 58 minutes

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VINTAGE-STANLEY-No-110-7-BLOCK-PLANE-TOOL-/00/s/MjQ4WDU0MQ==/$%28KGrHqV,%21k8E5YL1iEz0BOY%28C%212z%28%21%7E%7E6 0_3.JPG


My grandfather had a plane that looked rather like that and had that same little adjustment wheel. I found it all but useless -- very hard to get the adjustment right and then after a few strokes it would go out of adjustment. Not all old planes are good...

[Canoeyawl]

I have one and I like it and the #102, which is the same type but smaller.
It is light and fits in my apron pocket and I'm not too worried about dropping it. They have been making that model for well over 100 years, it can't be all bad.
If it is sharp it should work very well. The biggest problem with any plane is not sharp enough and too big a cut.
There are imitations of those (no name) and I haven't had good luck with them, the size of the throat is way too big and the quality of the iron is poor.


Did I say not sharp enough?

[Bruce Hooke]

Maybe some part of my Grandfather's plane was broken because it seemed like the "wheel" part just did not work at all reliably, or at least that is my recollection from about 10 years ago. This was not a sharpness issue, this was an issue with it being hard to get it to adjust properly in terms of setting and holding the iron (blade) depth.

Given the choice I would also try to buy a plane that has some sort of built in lateral adjustment for setting the side-to-side angle of the blade.

[emma55]

I have had a few Elec. planes , But I seem to get in trouble with them [ cutting to much wood to fast ] I like the Lie-Nielsen planes . They can seem a bit pricey .But they sure do hold up . I think they built on Stanley's pre war models . Or what is called "Bed rock " models I have a few Lie-Nielsen And think that the #5 is best the all round plane . And also there low angle block plane # 102 CW

[Eddiebou]

I'm somewhat of a handplane junkie, but I only own about 65/70, and only really use about 25 of them. Check out Garrett Hack's "The Handplane Book", Taunton Press, if you want to indulge your curiosity.

[Mrleft8]

I'd pass on the low angle block plane. Get a Stanley 9 1/2 Block plane, and keep it sharp.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJwVYQtnXdM2D2Nt79XfNkonO8iKuuN 22FnbvgId_JU5OUq5Z5-A
Why so many people want a low angle plane is beyond me, unless they spend a lot of time planing White Pine end grain.
Low angle planes tear up grain much more easily than standard angle planes, and are hard on the hand.
Next I'd get a Stanley #4 Bench plane.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTytjStHx7flt-gSwL331xRpYYfiz-OkH4k-faz8AbjjuWhAaHFNw
Both models, from the '50's-'60's, in good shape will be a joy to use, and can be found fairly inexpensively.
Yes Lie Nelson makes very nice planes, but you don't need them any more than you need a Porsche to go to the grocery store.

[Gerarddm]

What Mrleft8 said. You can both eBay/Craigslist and not get close to $100. I bought an old Stanley #5 at a tool swap for $30. Block planes should be around for under $20.

[John Meachen]

I'd pass on the low angle block plane. Get a Stanley 9 1/2 Block plane, and keep it sharp.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJwVYQtnXdM2D2Nt79XfNkonO8iKuuN 22FnbvgId_JU5OUq5Z5-A
Why so many people want a low angle plane is beyond me, unless they spend a lot of time planing White Pine end grain.
Low angle planes tear up grain much more easily than standard angle planes, and are hard on the hand.
Next I'd get a Stanley #4 Bench plane.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTytjStHx7flt-gSwL331xRpYYfiz-OkH4k-faz8AbjjuWhAaHFNw
Both models, from the '50's-'60's, in good shape will be a joy to use, and can be found fairly inexpensively.
Yes Lie Nelson makes very nice planes, but you don't need them any more than you need a Porsche to go to the grocery store.

Nice to see that Lefty agrees with me-and the advice to keep it sharp applies to any plane you own.I would still advocate a Stanley 90 as well.

[emma55]

That's why I don't own a car

[emma55]

Aren't low angle planes Better on end grain ?

[Ron Williamson]

The only plane I use is a Record 60 1/2,essentially the same as a Stanley.
It fits my hand better than the 9 1/2 and it doesn't tear if I sharpen it at a steep angle in keep the mouth tight.
You can't steepen the angle and get any effect with a "regular" plane.
R

[SMARTINSEN]

Aren't low angle planes Better on end grain ?

Correct, and in building plywood boats, you are dealing with a lot of that.

[shade of knucklehead]

Unless I am doing some fine woodwork I almost exclusively use a makita electric hand planer and a low angle block plane I found at a yard sale. the low angle plane is best for what I am doing because I do a lot of beveling on the end grain of white oak.

I bought a cheaper knock off version of the makita electric hand planer and it worked just as good, seemed to be the same thing. I think it might of been a grizzly. I did throw away the original blades though and replaced them with the makita blades.

I think If I was just beginning my life's work I would start with these two.

[SMARTINSEN]

I'd pass on the low angle block plane. Get a Stanley 9 1/2 Block plane, and keep it sharp.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJwVYQtnXdM2D2Nt79XfNkonO8iKuuN 22FnbvgId_JU5OUq5Z5-A
Why so many people want a low angle plane is beyond me, unless they spend a lot of time planing White Pine end grain.
Low angle planes tear up grain much more easily than standard angle planes, and are hard on the hand.
Next I'd get a Stanley #4 Bench plane.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTytjStHx7flt-gSwL331xRpYYfiz-OkH4k-faz8AbjjuWhAaHFNw
Both models, from the '50's-'60's, in good shape will be a joy to use, and can be found fairly inexpensively.
Yes Lie Nelson makes very nice planes, but you don't need them any more than you need a Porsche to go to the grocery store.

A pair, as you recommend Mrleft8, on EBay with just a few minutes left on the auction and presently at $36:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Old-Stanley-Wood-Planes-No-4-and-No-9-1-2-/130572266419?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e66b6abb3

[Mrleft8]

The only plane I use is a Record 60 1/2,essentially the same as a Stanley.
It fits my hand better than the 9 1/2 and it doesn't tear if I sharpen it at a steep angle in keep the mouth tight.
You can't steepen the angle and get any effect with a "regular" plane.
R Because the iron (Blade) on a block plane is set bevel up, you can indeed change the angle to pretty much whatever you want. For squirrely grain, like Curly Maple, or Rowed (Ribbon stripe) Mahogany the steeper the better.
A properly sharpened #4 plane is actually easier to plane end grain with (IMHOP) because of the greater mass in the plane body, and the fact that you are using both hands, putting your entire body weight and mass behind the tool. A block plane, being lighter, smaller, and one handed is great for those places where a bench plane can't go, but nothing beats a good sharp #4 for results on end grain where there's plenty of room.

[CundysHarbor]

My favorite little Stanley (from the fifties) block plane dove off the boat last week and broke the adjusting shaft. So, I started using a lowangle that has been kicking around for years. It has an adjustable throat but the depth adjustment is by means of a horizontal wheel. I can never remember which way to turn the adjuster. In dispair I went to a flea market and got two planes for $5. Between them I made a nice servicable plane suitable for getting epoxy on but able to do a good job fitting veneer on the boat. I have a Lie Nielsen block but the throat is so tight it is impossible to take a heavy cut. Additionally, in order to adjust the depth of cut one has to back off the holder, diddle the adjuster and retighten the holder. IMHO, Stanley had it right with the adjuster just like on a bench plane.
Dave

[Mrleft8]

You can adjust the "mouth" of your Lie-Neilson block plane very carefully with a small flat double cut mill file.... Well.... To be more specific, you can make the mouth larger with a file. If you go too far, you'll need to braze a gob of bronze or brass back on to the leading edge, and then go at it with a file again. Take a pass with the file, check with the blade in place. Take a pass with the file, check with the blade in place. Make sure that you retain the angle of the throat, and keep the mouth square.

[Lew Barrett]

A useful site for Stanley scroungers:

Hock
(http://www.hocktools.com/products.htm)

[Mrleft8]

A useful site for Stanley scroungers:

Hock
(http://www.hocktools.com/products.htm) I use Ron Hock's irons. Not exclusively, but they're very good.

[RodB]

If you haven't found a low angle block plane... consider the Lee Valley adjustable mouth LABP.... its a bit heavier than the Lie Nielson and is a superb tool.... built several boats with it and consider it a "must have" tool.


I have an extra iron and keep it sharp so I can switch blades when I need to.


RodB

[Bob Smalser]

Here's 6 pages on the selection, care and feeding of block planes...not exactly hi-tec tools You don't have to be as meticulous....simply sharpen and flatten what you have and it'll probably work as well as any of them.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/bSmalser/art/blockPlane/blockPlane1.asp

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/bSmalser/art/blockPlane/0_img/263582382[1].jpg

[Lew Barrett]

I use Ron Hock's irons. Not exclusively, but they're very good.

One of the percs that attend Lee and Leigh tools is the Hock-like quality of the iron they come with. A Stanley with such a blade would be close enough to equal to satisfy most of us.

[Concordia 33]

I'd say a standard or low angle block plane _ I have a vintage 60 1/2

For the Others two, I'd get a Jack Plane - Preferably a Stanley Bedrock 605 (Flat side) and a bedrock 607 (possibly 608)

I really like the quality and improvements of the Stanley Bedrocks - These are the ones that Lie-Nileson and WoodRiver emulate. They are pricier on the used plane market than the Bailey's but still cheaper than WoodRiver and LN.

[kc8pql]

This is going to sound a little strange to a lot of you, but if I had to have just one plane I'd pick a Fillister.
I've had one similar to this since the late '60s. It will cut rabbets with and across the grain, do bullnose work with the blade in the forward position,
raise panels and do a reasonably good job doubling as a smooth or jack plane. Mine was made by Record. It's the one I always take when I have to work away from
the shop.

http://www.anant-tools.com/images/duplex_rabbet_a78_b.jpg

[Boater14]

"it would be used on plywood quite a bit" said the op. Lee valley, lie neilsen planes with hock blades for plywood. A moving fillister? A contractor grade number 5 and a block plane from the home depot is my advice. Sawmillcreek.com and woodnet.net always have regulars selling clean planes reasonably.

[Hugh Conway]

The only plane to buy from home depot is the "trim plane" or whatever the tiny plane they sell for <$10 is. Blade holds a remarkably decent edge FOR THE PRICE and it fits in the palm to trim things. And it's <$10.

For the original question, in rough order, a Stanley #9 1/2 or a #220 ( 9 1/2 is a finer quality tool, the 220's are CHEAP these days). A #60 or #60 1/2 (one's japaned finish, ones not) are additions or substitutes to the before. A #4 or #5 Stanley. A #7 or a #8 jointer (nice to have, not as necessary). A rabbet plane. Maybe a compass plane.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

#4½ Bailey - the must have bench plane
#60½a - the do-it all block plane
An eight of nine inch wooden "Coffin" with the mouth on good order and a well set iron - does the job of the 4½ away from a bench.
#6 Bailey

[potomac]

Cool to see this thread popping back up. I ended up with a minor plane obsession which ebay was more than happy to encourage. I purchased, sharpened, and attempted to rehab several old planes- all Stanleys: 110, 220, 60 1/2, 4, 5, 6. Some notes on my experience (though the truth is, I haven't used any of them for boat building, but they've gotten a fair bit of use around the house, building and installing cabinets, etc.). I sharpened using a sort of scary sharp method with a guide as I thought I had the best chance of mastering this the fastest. I sure didn't master it. I did manage to get a pretty sharp blade that was serviceable. It's amazing how I continued to have difficulty achieving a perfectly square iron, even using the guide. Ebay sellers, especially those who aren't really familiar with woodworking, may grossly misjudge the condition of a plane. I don't think this is a case of misrepresentation to mislead, but just not knowing what you have. Someone who walks into their dead grandfather's shop may or may not know what a plane is even for. Or they may think of it as a decoration- a collector's item, not a real, working tool (by the way, there are a lot of collector's out there). Those chips in the iron seem a lot bigger when you are trying to sand them away. I found that of all the planes I purchased, the 60 1/2 was indeed my favorite. Some of this was from ease of use. Some was the elegance of the design (it truly is beautiful). Some of it, if I may use the parlance those of us who collect, carry, and use firearms often employ, was simply the way it fell to my hand. That lever cap nestles right into the curve of your palm and makes the tool feel like an extension of oneself. Finally, I used the new cost of a fine plane as my ultimate guide for expenditure, and was able to purchase seven or so Stanleys for the cost of one Lie-Nielson, including shipping (which is a big factor). Doing it over, I would completely forgo the 110s and 220s. They are clunky and graceless compared to the 60 1/2. Though a 220 might be nice to keep around for house tasks where you didn't want to dull the blade of your finer blocks. I also found the larger bench planes quite nice and tried and tried to score a #7, but they are in high demand. One of the things I like about these vintage tools, especially ones that are in serviceable but not real collectible condition, is that I found I felt about them the same as I would a guitar after it's already received a few dings- no longer in "as new" condition, you can simply get down to the business of using it instead or worrying about using it (though you ought not drop it on say, a tile floor while truing up some cabinets- that is a sickening sound and sensation- don't ask me how I know).

[Lavrans]

I'd pass on the low angle block plane. Get a Stanley 9 1/2 Block plane, and keep it sharp.

Why so many people want a low angle plane is beyond me, unless they spend a lot of time planing White Pine end grain.
Low angle planes tear up grain much more easily than standard angle planes, and are hard on the hand.

Just a quick answer on this- you can set the cut angle on a blade very easily. 2 blades will get you one that works for end grain and one that works for general purpose- you just need to put a different bevel on the blades. Really, you can do the same with the 9 1/2, but you can't get quite the range of angles... not that you'd need much really. And not that many people actually do set up different blades... it's much more fun to buy more than one plane. And they are cheap.

[Bob Smalser]

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/274460201.jpg

Whatever you do, if you're gonna spend the time necessary to bring an oldie back to life, then make sure you buy a good one. Like a #9 1/2, a #18 or #19, a #60 1/2 or a #65. You will benefit from an adjustable mouth, you'll benefit from a low-angle plane to pare end grain, you'll benefit from more than one block plane so you don't have to adjust from coarse to fine cuts, and you may benefit from the larger, wider block planes like the #19 and the #65. None are expensive compared to a new plane of equivalent quality.

But don't get it backwards. You don't really need a standard-angle block plane. You buy one or more old standard-angle Stanleys, however, because they are dirt cheap compared to the low-angle planes, and having another block around shortens the intervals between sharpenings. I'd steer clear of Sargents and other off makes. If you've never seen a block plane you can't make work well, I have a couple I can send you.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263582382.jpg

A #60 1/2, a #65, a L/N, and a #18. All pare oak end grain nicely. The standard-angle #18 on the far right is merely harder to push and won't stay sharp as long doing it.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263582386.jpg

In turn the #9 1/2, the #18 and the #19 come into their own on long grain. Easily equalling with stock blades anything the $150 L/N's can do:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263582392.jpg

Look for older Stanleys that have black japanning instead of blue or brown paint. And if you can find a Sweetheart-era plane with some iron left and without any chips or cracks in the mouth or sole, then you have a slightly better chance of getting one that will tune to perfection:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/307226158.jpg

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Bob, I have to say that with your advice, I have assembled a number of older Stanley planes that I have sharpened carefully and learned how to adjust, and they work very well... I will admit to not being a pro with planes as some here are, but for a relatively low investment, I have what I need at present. One of my favourites is a corrugated sole number 4 with the rosewood totes, and the other is an old 220 from at least 60 years ago. I use them a fair bit.

[Bob Smalser]

And if you're buying any plane on-line, insist on a photo of the sole and download Irfanview (free software) so you can crop and enhance photos.

Sellers are generally estate-sale pickers and don't know much. Here's a plane where the seller can probably see the mouth has cracks, chips and lots of wear and tear, but is content not to say anything and let you discover the flaws the hard way:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/400777686.jpg

In turn however, here's another where the seller claims the mouth is cracked, yet I can't find anything wrong in the first photo enhancement, and the plane has had very little use to boot. Is the seller is looking at the mouth plate thinking the sole is cracked?

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/400777689.jpg

But no...a greater enhancement reveals what may be a tiny crack at the mouth corner at the left of the photo. But unlike the first plane, that's not enough to affect useage. This one is well worth buying.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/400777812.jpg

And keep in mind what makes a plane work well isn't so much how sharp the iron is, but how flat the sole is in the spots where it needs to be dead flat:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263582393.jpg

Buy one so badly out of flat you can't correct it without widening the mouth, and you won't have one that'll equal the performance of a spendy L/N or L/V. And be sure to use index fluid on the sole and abrasive paper on a known-flat surface like a ground machine table or heavy glass. If you think you can do the job with straightedges and feeler gages, you are probably mistaken.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263580659.jpg

The Sargent above wasn't salvageable. By the time the sunken mouth corner to the right of the photo was lapped flat, all the adjustment was used up in the mouth plate.

[RodB]

IF I only had one plane, it would be a LABP. My personal one is: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32685&cat=1,41182,48942
I like the heft of this model over most others ... a very nice tool I've used for many years.

I have several Stanley planes that I have refurbished and they are nice (will sell the majority of em sooner or later), but my next plane will be the Lee Valley Low Angle Smoother which I had the chance to demo last year. This plane is kinda a larger version of my Lee Valley Low Angle Block Plane. They sell three different blades (varying angles.... standard blade 25 degrees ) that allows you to tackle just about any smoothing job on most any wood. This is a great plane for boat work because its not all that heavy (3.5 lbs) and its quite versatile.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=45864&cat=1,41182,52515

I'm also interested in the Low angle bevel up Jack Plane, but I already have a nice Stanley #5.

Several of my Stanley's were sent to tablesawtom to be reground ... with the bottoms to a flatness of .001 and perfectly square to the sides... he does a bang up job for a reasonable price and his flatness exceeds the production Lie Nielsons. He usually has some nice planes for sale that he has reground.... and the prices are very reasonable... for reground planes in overall very good condition. He also sells totes and knobs for these older planes out of different woods. tom@tablesawtom.com

Note: if needed... you can flatten the bottom of planes yourself via a piece of glass and some varying grits of wet dry sandpaper... and the function of the plane will be fine.. I just think the regrinding is much better and flatter than I can do by hand and I'm not interested in spending all that time getting one flat.

Heres some old Stanleys that have been reground and I refurbished them. They did not look near this good when I started... and the regrinding of the bottom and sides makes a very nice difference. These are much less than a Lie Nielson etc. Regrinding is $45 for a Stanley #4. Note: most of the shiny wood was finished with Daly's Profin brushed on with a foam brush, 3 coats 24 hours apart. The plane bodies can be repainted to very closely resemble the original japanning, but of course much tougher with paint. I found the paint and recommended technique to use on the internet... works great if applied properly.

WWII # 4 1/2 Bailey

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat%20images%20June%2011%20start/stanley4halfbottom.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat%20images%20June%2011%20start/stanley4halfoverhedcc-1.jpg

Bedrock 605

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat%20images%20June%2011%20start/stanley605overhead.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat%20images%20June%2011%20start/stanley605profile2-1.jpg

607 Bedrock

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat%20images%20June%2011%20start/607bedrock.jpg

Bailey #3

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat%20images%20June%2011%20start/stanleyno3onsidemouth.jpg





RodB

[Bob Smalser]

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan4.htm

While enough Bailey-pattern #3's (handiest), #4's and #5's (cheapest) were made that picking up a good restoration candidate for 25 bucks isn't uncommon, don't forget the transitionals like this #36 Razee Smoother for your other needs:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4029780/274572643.jpg

Lighter than a cast-iron Bailey, yet with all the easy-adjustment features, they are really sweet to use and will grow on you. Collectors tend to turn their noses up at these, and they are under valued. Further, if you are a woodworker with the typical tools and skills, these are more easily rehabbed to perfection than the Bailey planes:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/bSmalser/art/rehabWoodPlanes/rWoodPlanes1.asp

[Terry Haines]

Some opinions from a non-expert FWIIW:

An electric plane lacks precision but it takes off material fast and without effort. The problem with most if not all of them these days is, they need tuning up before they will work as well as they can. The blade should be level or maybe just a hair proud of the rear sole and the front foot should be precisely parallel to the rear sole with the depth adjustment set to zero. Don’t buy an electric plane if you can’t remove these parts completely and do whatever is needed to fix them.

Cheap hand planes can also be fixed within limits but if the blade is useless it can be hard and expensive to replace.

My low angle block planes get the most use; they are both Stanleys and have been tuned up so there is little difference although the older one is better made. The newer one has a blade that chips easily which is a pain as it has to be sharpened at a higher angle than I would prefer so I can’t use it on end grain.
I still mourn my smoothing plane, only a Great Neck with icky plastic handles but I worked it over into a useful tool that would peel the entire length of a 16 foot plank with hardly any effort. I still have it but can’t get it to work right since some muscle-bound buffoon got into my workshop and borrowed it to trim the top of a door that was binding "because it was the biggest" . . . I don’t know what he did to it, if I did I would do it to him! I always lock the tool cabinet now it’s too late . . . sob!

Good advice on tuning a hand plane here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv1zo9CAxt4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv1zo9CAxt4) but I don't think he does enough to get a really good finish on the sole; since it's flat it doesn't take much more time IMHO.

[RodB]

Heres an older Stanley Bedrock that has been tuned up, repainted and the wood refinished... You can have a lot of fun refurbishing old stanley planes.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat%20images%20June%2011%20start/stanley606frogbtmandbodytop.jpg

Old planes cleaned up can look fairly nice...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat%20images%20June%2011%20start/607bedrockknob-1.jpg


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat%20images%20June%2011%20start/staanley606brassknob.jpg

R

[Concordia 33]

Heres an older Stanley Bedrock that has been tuned up, repainted and the wood refinished... You can have a lot of fun refurbishing old stanley planes.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat images June 11 start/stanley606frogbtmandbodytop.jpg

Old planes cleaned up can look fairly nice...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat images June 11 start/607bedrockknob-1.jpg


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Boat images June 11 start/staanley606brassknob.jpg

R
That's a nice old Bedrock, but shouldn't there be a patent date on the base behind the frog? I thought they all had at least one patent date there until after the mid 30's when it only said made in Made in America. The round side suggests one made before 1911, but the absence of a patent for 1895 kind of throws me off a little with regard to the appox date of manufacture.

[RodB]

I've seen the patent dates in more than one location. The only thing I care about is that the plane has the bedrock frog and base with an adjustment screw... the rest does not matter. One of my favorite planes is a K5 ....the K models are exactly the same planes as the bedrocks... just made for the Simmons Tool company I believe... and they are usually less expensive than a model that says "Bedrock". They have a K5 on the body in front of the knob.

The planes that have Bedrock on them are priced out of sight the last year or so... I ended up selling those planes as I was able to get quite a bit of money for them and replace them with K series planes.

RodB

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

That bedrock is beautiful Rod....

[RodB]

Thanks...PMJ.... I had to paint it twice... its a balancing act to puddle the paint on the plane body and get just the right amount to mimic japanning... but it came out ok...

Oh yea, I forgot .... heres a good source for decent vintage planes for usually reasonable prices...

The sell and swap forum on the www,woodnet.net (woodworker forum)

http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4

Heres an example of a #7 Stanley that would clean up fine... and a $35 Stanley #3

http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=5787161&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=

Don't forget, there are some very good aftermarket plane irons (blades) that are really much better than the originals... such as Hock, or Lee Valley, etc.


RodB

[Concordia 33]

I've seen the patent dates in more than one location. The only thing I care about is that the plane has the bedrock frog and base with an adjustment screw... the rest does not matter. One of my favorite planes is a K5 ....the K models are exactly the same planes as the bedrocks... just made for the Simmons Tool company I believe... and they are usually less expensive than a model that says "Bedrock". They have a K5 on the body in front of the knob.

The planes that have Bedrock on them are priced out of sight the last year or so... I ended up selling those planes as I was able to get quite a bit of money for them and replace them with K series planes.

RodB
I agree that these features are what makes the Bedrock so desirable. But typing to identify the type of plan is a little challenging due to the patent date issue. Your round sided plane means that it was made before 1911, and the 600 numbering system did not start until the type 3's 1900-1908. So far, so good, but all the beds had at least one patent date behind the frog until well after the flat tops were made (they stopped patent dates on the beds around 1933. Could it have been milled off at some point?

[RodB]

I agree that these features are what makes the Bedrock so desirable. But typing to identify the type of plan is a little challenging due to the patent date issue. Your round sided plane means that it was made before 1911, and the 600 numbering system did not start until the type 3's 1900-1908. So far, so good, but all the beds had at least one patent date behind the frog until well after the flat tops were made (they stopped patent dates on the beds around 1933. Could it have been milled off at some point?

The plane is question was completely stripped of all Japanning and then painted... so I could have seen if there were any marks where a number had been ground off. Most likely there was more of a variation than the historical articles say...

RodB

[Bob Smalser]

Gorgeous planes. I've never tried a Bedrock, although it's clear they have a better-designed frog.

But given that Bedrocks cost from three to five times as much as Baileys, how much do you gain in function? In some cases, I can buy a Spiers or Norris copy for that kind of money, or an entire suite of adjustable transitionals.

[RodB]

Bob,

I doubt you gain much in performance if the Bailey frog stays in place... but I do think the newer blades (irons) from Hock etc probablly give you an improvement of approx 10-15% per a few "experts" I have heard remark.
I was able to acquire a few older Bedrocks (5, 6, 7) in the $90 range... got them reground, repainted them and tuned them up.... ended up getting a little over $200 for each one on the Woodworking forum. I didn't have the intention to sell them when I refurbished them, but I have some Baileys that are mint and they cost me quite a bit less... and work fine. Evidently when the Bedrocks came out, the additional cost was not even a quarter... and mostly those with the Baileys did not go for the new one all that much. The best deal on planes like this are the K series which are exact copies of the Bedrocks and were made by Stanley.

Particularly this past year most planes on ebay have gone out of sight in prices... so I stopped even watching them. I'd say I've seen decent Bailey #7's and 8's go for $90 in the last year.... Anything "Bedrock" is rediculous unless you find a kinda mislabled model that no one sees much.

The best prices are on the Woodworker forum www.woodnet.net on the Sell and buy forum.... where lots of woodworkers will sell old planes they bought for very reasonable prices in the past... and just want to sell them to get other tools. The guy who regrinds these old planes, Tablesawtom, sells very clean planes that have been reground and cleaned up nicely for very fair prices and they are flat to within .001. Sometimes, ebay has very decent deals, but not the types of deals you have described in the past. Every once in a while a clean #7 Bailey goes for under $70 incl shipping if you just have patience. The Bedrock 6 and 7 above were pretty much covered with surface rust, cost a lot but looked very sound ... they cleaned up nicely with some work and regrinding. The regrinding made those surfaces look like new more or less.... and being Bedrocks, they were worth the extra investment of being resurfaced.

Rod

[Lavrans]

Ah, shucks. If you're just going to buy one, buy a Holtey.
Should be perfect when you get it, if you dare to use it.

[PeterSibley]

It's about time I bought a 60 1/2, can anyone suggest a good outlet and a normal price ?

[Greg Nolan]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Millers Falls planes. Their no. 8, 9, 15, 18, 22, and 24 perform as well as, or better than Stanley 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 bench planes; their block planes with adjustable mouths are as good as comparable Stanley block planes, and their #56 low angle block plane with an adjustable mouth, is just a bit smaller than the usual block plane and is one of my favorites. Millers Falls can usually be had for the same price or often a bit less than Stanley planes (a lot less than Bedrocks). Their 00 series (800, 900) are economy planes, comparable to Stanley Handyman planes. I have several, as well as several Bedrocks (which I like), and miscellaneous other planes (Baileys, Lee Valley, Fulton, Sargent, and a few wood and transitional planes). The Millers Falls are a bit lighter than the Bedrocks, and usually perform as well as them, when both are properly tuned up.

[Bob Smalser]

Hock etc probablly give you an improvement of approx 10-15% per a few "experts" I have heard remark.


I have a couple of 0-1 irons by Ron Hock, and while they are certainly fine blades, on the softwoods and mahoganies boatbuilders use, I don't find they provide any advantage at all over vintage stock blades. Providing flat and sharp are in your skill set, that is, which seems to exclude a lot of people.

An exception is a builder planing a lot of nasty, plywood edges who will benefit from Hock or L/N A-2 blades that don't take quite as fine an edge, but hold a good edge longer on the nasties than 0-1 or stock vintage Stanley. But I agree the newer Stanley blades are disasters, gummy to sharpen and with so much chrome and vanadium in them they won't even take indexing fluid or bluing.

While prices may appear to have gone up, there are still plenty of excellent values out there. This Stanley 65 block I feature above went for 25 bucks today, when as one of the finest block planes ever made...much better than a L/N or L/V IMO...it’s worth much more:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Stanley-No-65-Chipped-torn-mouth-low-angle-block-plane-knuckle-lever-cap-joint-/00/s/OTYwWDEyODA=/$(KGrHqV,!jME8E7)9tUeBPIMkWM2lw~~60_3.JPG

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-No-65-Chipped-torn-mouth-low-angle-block-plane-knuckle-lever-cap-joint-/110814765683?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cd132273

Plus these full-adjustable jointers can be had in the 50-dollar range, when a basic #7 or #8 is over twice that, and a Bedrock or L/N upping the ante over twice again. And they are great planes.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/STANLEY-BAILEY-No-33-TRANSITIONAL-JOINTER-PLANE-/00/s/NjQwWDQ4MA==/$(KGrHqZHJCoE8fZN66,iBPJzr!(BYQ~~60_3.JPG

A newcomer can still outfit himself with an entire suite of planes for less than the cost of a couple of L/N’s.

[Lewisboater]

http://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=29680

Here is a link to 8 videos dealing with planes at Fine Woodworking Magazine...including which to get first (opinion) and some of the tuning, sharpening and usages of said planes.

[Terry Haines]

Recently I keep running into mention of rabbet planes, both here and on the Boat design Forum. I've never needed one but I am contemplating tackling a lapstrake boat some time soon, and I'll need one to clean up the gains; so I built one. It uses a 1/2 inch chisel held by a wooden wedge. Using the forward chisel slot converts it into a bull-nose plane.

The body is 4 layers of 1/4" Baltic Birch Ply, blade angle is 40 deg, blade slot has a 12 degree angle, wedge was trimmed to accommodate the 2 degree taper of the chisel, which is sharpened to 25 degrees. The side cheeks limit the cut depth to 1/2" which is all I need. Now I've tried it I realize I could have made the center web deeper. A regular rabbet plane has a specially-shaped blade to allow the cheeks to be the same width as the blade, but I didn't want to wreck the chisel.


http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/wooden-boat-building-restoration/69521d1334613297-cutting-gains-how-do-rabbetplanesmall.jpg

[Lewisboater]

Tres Cool!

[St.J]

That's great Terry.
How well does it cut?
Does the ply stand up to the use?
St.John

[Terry Haines]

Just finished it so it’s early days yet, but it cuts quite well as a rabbet plane and a bull-nose plane. It’s too light and short for heavy work, but fine for finish work. Baltic birch ply is quite hard so I expect it to last. I want to get the sole perfectly square and smooth and waxed, then sharpen the chisel.

I rabbet the gunnels on plywood boats to hide the ply edge using a router. Ply thickness can vary slightly, and when planing the ‘wale after gluing to level it off I risk damaging the ply surface. With the plane I can make the rabbet fit exactly before gluing. I’m also thinking of building a lapstrake some time; it will be useful for the gains.

For heavier work I would make it longer especially before the rabbet blade location, and add some ballast to the tail.