Stadel pilot cutter offered by WB

[Matt Middleton]

I am wondering if anyone has any experience with this design. Some friends want my wife and I to buy theirs (built in '39, glassed over since), and I am wondering if there's anyone who can describe this boat's sailing habits. Any other thoughts and info on Stadel and the yards that built his boats would be appreciated as well. It's supposed to be one of the first (if not THE first) built to this design, I think.
Thanks
Matt

[Andrew]

Is this traditional carvel planked boat? Fiberglass sheathing of such is a red flag. Use the search feature to get some background on this

[Roger Cumming]

I knew George Stadel. We once discussed his Pilot half hull model on the wall of his studio. There were many models on the wall, but the pilot stood out. He said it was a very popular boat, that people would send him snapshots of Pilots they built. Stadel mentioned Roy Blaney as one of the builders of his designs, although I don't remember whether Blaney built any Pilots. Stadel had a very high regard for Blaney.

Stadel was expert in all the aspects of traditional yacht design, especially the rigging of schooners. It would be hard to imagine a craft such as the Pilot being anything but a smart sailor.

[JimD]

I know nothing about the boat, but like Andrew says, fiberglass sheath over carvel plank is supposed to be a bad idea. The reason (or so the experts say in the books I read to help me keep up with the party conversation) is that the plank edges aren't fixed and move against each other. That's why there's flexible caulking between them. Fiberglass, 'they' say, will stress and eventually shear between the planks.

[Don Olney]

Sure is a pretty design. I have it on my computer's desktop at home as inspiration for the next project.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid3/p7bd6864c31f7d283d564098f649259a5/fde6580a.jpg

[bugeye]

hi,
My friend has a 26' stadel cutter, and is fairly happy with it. I have sailed it quite a bit and feel the a friendship sloop is a better boat. The stadel cutter as drawn in the plans, seems to be undercanvassed, and therefore not too good in light air. But at the same time, it is so tender that you might not want to add more sail anyway. The bilges are full to the sole with lead pigs, in addition to an iron ballast shoe. I think that the boat should have firmer bilges, as many friendship sloops do. Also, its interior is tiny, but it is after all 26'. Boy is it a beautiful design to look at though. Who knows, maybe if the boat were built with a bigger ballast shoe, in lieu of the internal ballst, to move the CG lower, it would work out better.

[Don Olney]

Here's a little Pilot Sloop. That outboard sure adds to the lines of the boat doesn't it?

http://www.sailorjon.net/images/20'StadelDesignedGaffPilotSloop.jpg

L.O.A.: 20'
L.W.L.: 16'6"
Beam: 7'3"
Draft: 3'6 1/2"
Ballast.: 1500lbs Total 1,100 On Keel and 400 Internal
Displacement: 4,695lbs
Rig: Gaff Rigged with Mast stepped on deck on a hinged tabernackle
Sail Area: 238 Square ft--31ft in the self- tending jib and 158ft in the mainsail

Builder: 1991 by Richard Jones

Designer: George Stadel in 1940

[ken mcclure]

Whether to buy that boat depends on why she was glassed over, what the condition of the boat is under that glass, and what the price is for the boat.

The fiberglass coating can be stripped off if you've got the time, place and patience. Then any repairs need to be made to correct the situation that caused them to 'glass the boat to begin with.

You should probably get a good survey by a surveyor who's familiar with wooden boats.

If this boat could be documented to be the first built of that design it might be a worthy project to restore her.

[Robert Albers]

Good info about her tenderness......I have the plans for her and am looking at building her as a schooner.....Hard to believe she would be considered "under canvased"....perhaps this is the reason for her "tenderness"....it makes her easier to drive....Also the plans do call for an optional larger outside ballast to remove some of the internal ballast.......
All in all....beautiful lines, very beautiful, and, much different than a friendship....for different reasons... (P.S. please, don't ever put square ports on such a lovely hull as shown in photos of 20 footer!!!! YUCK!!)

[robbid]

Roy Blaney built at least one 33' Stadel Pilot Cutter. She was launched in 1964, named Conquest, and went to an owner in Mass. She's now in South Freeport, Maine, named Constance. She's beautiful, still in great shape, and a great boat for exploring down the Maine coast.

I'm interested in hearing about any other Stadel Pilot Cutters, built by Blaney or others.

[CapnJ2ds]

There was a new one built here three or four years back. Herbert Krumm-Gartner built her for a young woman. The boat seemed to be a smart enough sailer, the couple of times I saw her out, nor did she seem under-canvassed.

Without getting all energetic and digging the book with her plans in (the boat's plans, not the young woman's) out of my storage I can't say for sure, but I am pretty sure the design specified a lead ballast keel. If the one mentioned above had been given an iron keel of the same size, then yes, you'd need to fill the bilge with lead pigs and yes, she'd be a bit tender. The one built here had a lead ballast keel.

I'll add my weight to those above urging caution buying an old wooden boat sheathed in fibreglass. Sometimes it'll do more than crack on the plank seams; some woods (e.g. Pitch Pine) will shed the stuff like a snake shedding its skin. (I'm having a bit of a giggle here imagining an old boat gooing over a swell, giving a wriggle and popping the whole glass coat off.:D) It's not exactly unknown for the glass skin to encourage rot under it, either.

Pretty boats, the Pilots, even if they're not that roomy inside. However, when the young woman I mentioned above took delivery of her boat, she moved aboard with her husband, infant and cat!

[StevenBauer]

y friend Gary has a 28' Stadel Pilot Cutter here in Portland. The interior is huge. She isn't as fast as Talisman. :D

Here she is:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/summer%202008/IMG_2545.jpg?t=1266727633


Steven

[Rich Jones]

Here's a little Pilot Sloop. That outboard sure adds to the lines of the boat doesn't it?

http://www.sailorjon.net/images/20'StadelDesignedGaffPilotSloop.jpg

L.O.A.: 20'
L.W.L.: 16'6"
Beam: 7'3"
Draft: 3'6 1/2"
Ballast.: 1500lbs Total 1,100 On Keel and 400 Internal
Displacement: 4,695lbs
Rig: Gaff Rigged with Mast stepped on deck on a hinged tabernackle
Sail Area: 238 Square ft--31ft in the self- tending jib and 158ft in the mainsail

Builder: 1991 by Richard Jones

Designer: George Stadel in 1940

I was the owner/builder of this boat. I met George Stadel in 1988 to discuss plans. Very interesting fellow. I should have gone with my instincts and built the 26' Pilot Sloop, but, money was tight and I ended up building the 20' version. Couldn't afford an inboard, that's the reason for the ugly outboard motor. I used a lead keel with some interior ballast also, as the plans called for. Was a bit tender at first, but adding more ballast inside stiffened it up. The 20' version proved too short for Long Island Sound. Being a heavy boat, motor boat wakes tended to cause it to hobby-horse on light wind days and come to a dead stop. It did love a stiff breeze, though, and could handle heavy weather very nicely. The boat was stripped planked on steam bent oak and fiberglassed to the top of the bootstripe. I sold it to someone on Martha's Vineyard a few years later. (My wife didn't enjoy sailing and wanted a log cabin in Vermont instead, so I built her that.) Don't know where the boat is now. But, these Pilot Sloops are heavy boats, don't turn on a dime, but love straight line sailing in a breeze.

[RodB]

Heres one of the best threads on the Stadel Pilot sloop... even though some images are missing links... the discussion is pretty good on this boats performance.

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11124&highlight=Stadel+pilot+cutter

RodB

[Garret]

A few thoughts on 'glas sheathing on a wood boat. Gained from (painful) personal experience.

My boat was 'glassed from the w/l down. First thing I ran into was not getting 100% of the water out of her for winter (on the hard in ME) storage. Put a split in the horn timber big enough for me to reach my hand in & touch the prop shaft.

So - I decided it was time for the 'glas to go (to replace the horn timber if nothing else - yeah right;-). Now this is an 8'3' draft 40' w/l length boat, so obviously bigger. Removing the 'glas used over 2 boxes of 16 grit 8" disks. Stop & think for as minute about how long it takes to wear out just one disk...... Back hurt yet?

When I got it all off, we discovered that ~50% of the bottom planks needed replacing. Now this is an old boat & many may have needed it before 'glassing - but many were crumbly on the surface from never drying out. Alaskan Yellow Cedar planks by the way. The rudder was completely encased in 'glas & will be completely replaced.

Before removing the 'glas I could not find a surveyor who would list the bottom condition as anything other than "unknown" - as they just can't tell what's under it. Therefore no insurance (that I could afford).

So - unless it was beautifully 'glassed inside & out, I'd factor in a serious amount of work. I know many Maine workboats are 'glassed on just the outside, but they are boats they stay in water all year & are usually far more open to the world - without the sealed away spots of a sailboat.

Happy to answer more if need be & ymmv....