Some Chebacco Questions

[Tom Painter]

I'm sorry if we've hammed this one to death on the WBF...

Does anyone know what the current plan pricing is from PB&F for Chebacco 20 lapstrake (I' don't need the house etc.)? I know I can get the sheet-ply plan from the gentleman that took over for Dynamite.

Is there a performance difference between the two boats (lapstrake vs sheet ply)? I'm interested in actual experiences not blind speculation:d(not trying to be a jerk, just especially interested if anyone has sailed both)

I actually like the looks of both, but the ply-lap might be perceived as a "better quality"' boat if it were to be resold.

I've looked through the Chebacco News archives, can't find too many complaints. I wouldn't be building for a couple of years...I would be interested in a used one, but they don't seem to come available until after you've started building:D

Thanks!
Tom

[David G]

Tom,

I have two fellow Coots who have Chebacco's. No comparison for you, though, as they're both sheet plywood. Since you won't be building for a while, you have time to dig up a copy of the Wood Boat Magazine article that does a side-by-side-by-side comparison between: Sheet Plywood; Glued lapstrake; Strip planked. The bottom line, as I recall, is that aesthetics was the primary difference - but you should read the article for yourself.

You can contact Jame Orr through the C. News. He's building a new boat, and might (though I haven't heard him say so) possibly be willing to sell his Chebacco at some point.

G'luck

[Steve Paskey]

I know I can get the sheet-ply plan from the gentleman that took over for Dynamite.

For what it's worth, you can get the sheet ply plan (and plans for 14 other boats) in Dynamite's last book. 20 bucks for all of them.

[Steve Paskey]

Since you won't be building for a while, you have time to dig up a copy of the Wood Boat Magazine article that does a side-by-side-by-side comparison between: Sheet Plywood; Glued lapstrake; Strip planked. The bottom line, as I recall, is that aesthetics was the primary difference - but you should read the article for yourself.

That's my recollection as well. The authors of the WB piece found no appreciable differences in performance. But yes, you should read the article yourself. It's issue 107, and you can get an instant digital download here for $3.50 ... http://www.woodenboat.com/wbstore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=83 (http://www.woodenboat.com/wbstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83_87&products_id=506)

[Tom Painter]

Tom,

I have two fellow Coots who have Chebacco's. No comparison for you, though, as they're both sheet plywood. Since you won't be building for a while, you have time to dig up a copy of the Wood Boat Magazine article that does a side-by-side-by-side comparison between: Sheet Plywood; Glued lapstrake; Strip planked. The bottom line, as I recall, is that aesthetics was the primary difference - but you should read the article for yourself.

You can contact Jame Orr through the C. News. He's building a new boat, and might (though I haven't heard him say so) possibly be willing to sell his Chebacco at some point.

G'luck

Thanks, David.

I remember reading that article on the three Chebacco boats.
I foolishly sold off much of my boatbuilding library & WB magazines about 10 years ago due to a lack of interest, then a couple years later my interest came back with a vengeance...trying to rebuild my library since...

I do have that book, Steve, thank you.

[Mad Scientist]

WB's 'Small Boats 2010' has an article by Dan Segal about the Chebaccos. He reported very little difference between the sheet ply and lapstrake ply versions, on a day when the wind never topped 12-15 knots.

Here's a link to the Digital Download of that issue: http://www.woodenboat.com/wbstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=74&products_id=761

Tom

[peterchech]

You know, I really don't think the Chebacco has been done to death on WBF. I am seriously considering building the sheet ply version, and there is surprisingly little out there. Chebacco.com is a great resource, but hasn't been updated in years.

I do recall reading that the sheet ply version has slightly less initial stability than the other versions (might be a bit more "tippy" initially), but other than that there is little if any difference. The design is a modified dory I believe, similar to Bolger's cartopper. Good stability once it digs into the chine, but that means even on light days you are always sailing with significant heel. Always. Richard Spelling has an article on chebacco.com detailing this, it is a picture from his glass house (which is a beautiful mod to the boat IMHO) where the boat is heeled about 30 degrees and he tells the reader that is pretty much how she sails, always...

I particularly like this version:
http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chglhs1c.jpg

Apparently this opens up the boat enough inside for a porta potti, sink, cooler, water tank, and two 7' berths. Making it a "cruiser" in my book lol. I would love to make those ports removable for when it is a beautiful day out. Yes, I could trailer this to the keys and live in relative comfort for a week on this I think...

[BriMac]

The Chebacco design can't be "done to death" IMHO.
I borrowed one of Dynamite's books from the library to get the initial plans from which I've been making my decision on whether to build or not.
I think that the plans from the book ( I've returned the book and can't remember exactly which one) would be clear enough to build with, however as I'm inexperienced with a loft to build project, I'll likely buy the plans once I get my shop situation sorted out.
I'm smitten by the 25' version, which I think would be lovely in glued plywood lap-strake with a Stonehorse type raised deck and Eun-a-Mara dual centreboards.

[brucehallman]

The Chebacco design can't be "done to death" IMHO.

I believe that the Chebacco design is one of the top two most popular 'big boat' designs created by Phil Bolger, with many having been built and sailed. It certainly can be called 'tried and true'.

http://hallman.appspot.com/farm4.static.flickr.com/3468/3942420401_d15666fa64_z.jpg

[Tom Painter]

I haven't seen any pics of a Chebacco with the jibheaded cat yawl rig. Anyone know of one so rigged?

[brucehallman]

I haven't seen any pics of a Chebacco with the jibheaded cat yawl rig. Anyone know of one so rigged?

I am not sure what 'jibheaded' means in this context. Most of them seem to have a four cornered mainsail. This one (not rigged,but lacking a top yard) seems to be rigged with a tri-cornered main:

http://intheboatshed.net/2009/06/15/chebacco-boat-designed-by-phil-bolger-built-by-academy-ex-student-connie-mense/

[John Bell]

I am not sure what 'jibheaded' means in this context. Most of them seem to have a four cornered mainsail. This one (not rigged,but lacking a top yard) seems to be rigged with a tri-cornered main:

http://intheboatshed.net/2009/06/15/chebacco-boat-designed-by-phil-bolger-built-by-academy-ex-student-connie-mense/

I'll wager it's gaff rigged, but they left the spar off for simplicity while the boat was on display. Look at the angle of the topping lift. Gavin would know for sure.

[BobW]

Doesn't jib-headed mean it has a jib?

There are a few photos of a jib-headed cat yawl Chebacco in the set of photos from last month's Sucia Island outing (link to photos in the first post of thread).

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?134246-Sucia-Outing-Fotos

Bob

[Tom Painter]

Jib-headed means Bermudan/marconi/leg-0-mutton 3-sided sail. (same rig as the Micros)

Bolger shows the option on the sheet ply plan.

[brucehallman]

Jib-headed means...

Nautical terminology trips me up so often! When I look up "jib-headed" in the Oxford English Dictionary it seems that historically the term was applied to topsails not mainsails. In other words, a topsail shaped like a jib. Though recently (since the 1920's) it seems it may be used to describe mainsails too.

O.E.D.: jib-headed adj. shaped like a jib, said of a topsail.

http://books.google.com/books?id=vunvLutTE7QC&lpg=PA54&ots=urT1Y9A_70&dq=jib-headed topsail&pg=PA55#v=onepage&q&f=true (http://books.google.com/books?id=vunvLutTE7QC&lpg=PA54&ots=urT1Y9A_70&dq=jib-headed%20topsail&pg=PA55#v=onepage&q&f=true)

[BobW]

Thanks. That was my lesson for the day.

Bob

[Tom Painter]

It's amazing how the meaning/origin of many boat terms are not well documented.

It took me about a year as a kid to decipher just what the hell starting the sheet meant.....makes it all the more confusing when sitting on the stern sheets:D

[John Bell]

I believe that the Chebacco design is one of the top two most popular 'big boat' designs created by Phil Bolger, with many having been built and sailed. It certainly can be called 'tried and true'.

http://hallman.appspot.com/farm4.static.flickr.com/3468/3942420401_d15666fa64_z.jpg

That sure is a fine looking boat. I never get tired of looking at lapstrake Chebaccos... If I picked six this weekend I'd immediately commission two boats to be built: Atkin's NINIGRET and Bolger's CHEBACCO. Thanks for the nice photo.

[Andrew Y]

Tom,

a year ago Susanne Altenburger was offering 18 sheets of plans and a detailed building key for #540 and #575 (lapstrake) for $300. These plans included the cruising version and the RD version. The RD version (raised deck) has totally rethought how to build a chebacco and has addressed some of the original design's shortcomings - The plan package is more expensive than the Dynamite options but there are some insights there that may make the investment worthwhile for you. Chebacco has become a suite of designs really, PB&F invites builders to mix and match from the different options/features to suit their specific needs. Dynamite only offers the original sheet ply version (not that there is anything wrong with that!)

Andrew
(currently building a Chebacco 25)

[brucehallman]

It's amazing how the meaning/origin of many boat terms are not well documented.

It took me about a year as a kid to decipher just what the hell starting the sheet meant...

I once read from Phil Bolger that the Oxford English Dictionary nearly always gave him the nautical definitions that he needed of words, and since then I often also consult that exhaustive dictionary for obscure nautical definitions. (The O.E.D. is available online, typically you can get access with your library card login.) I just checked the word "start" for the nautical defintion and learned that "start" actually has two different nautical uses. Definition 20a is the "to ease or loosen" meaning, but definition 27 of "start" means to flog with a ropes' end. (The O.E.D definition of "start" is huge, spanning 28 printed pages.)

[Tom Painter]

Tom,

a year ago Susanne Altenburger was offering 18 sheets of plans and a detailed building key for #540 and #575 (lapstrake) for $300. These plans included the cruising version and the RD version. The RD version (raised deck) has totally rethought how to build a chebacco and has addressed some of the original design's shortcomings - The plan package is more expensive than the Dynamite options but there are some insights there that may make the investment worthwhile for you. Chebacco has become a suite of designs really, PB&F invites builders to mix and match from the different options/features to suit their specific needs. Dynamite only offers the original sheet ply version (not that there is anything wrong with that!)

Andrew
(currently building a Chebacco 25)

Thanks for that, Andrew. I look forward seeing the progress on your boat! Someone on the Chebacco News site made the comment that they thought the lapstrake version was noisier than the sheet ply. That would be a consideration for me too.

The exposed edges of ply-lap construction is somewhat worrisome to me as far as long-term wear & tear landing on rocky shores. Sheathing would seem to be a nightmare w/o vacuum bagging techniques ( I've got a vac pump but the film, peel ply & breather cloth are fairly expensive...)

A cold-molded ply (1/8" okoume courses) on the lap-ply lines might be worth some contemplation. The smooth hull would be much easier to sheath for abrasion resistance. A strongback would be needed for any of the construction methods anyway...

Much to consider:D