8m stella restoration

[jargo]

hi everyone ,first time post,first time boat restoration.i have a 1966 stella (based on the nordic folkboat) she is in need of a lot of tlc ,9 busted ribs ,dodgey keel bolts and a completley rotten deck.i,d appreciate any and all advice .

[Larks]

Welcome to the forum Jargo.

First bits of advice, post some photos of your boat, tell us where you are and be prepared to sort the wheat from the chaff here, ie listen to the advice here but make up your own mind.

[jargo]

thanks larks i,m on the gold coast se queensland australia ,i,ll get a few pics together ASAP

[Larks]

thanks larks i,m on the gold coast se queensland australia ,i,ll get a few pics together ASAP

Turn around and look up towards Tamborine and you'll just about see my place...

We've got a bit of a contingent of wooden boat wacko's on here from around this area so you're in good company.:D Is the boat in the water at the moment?

Have a look through Kerry's Folkboat thread here: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?88325-A-folkboat-found-me , he's a Kiwi :eek::d (living in the States) but he's done an amazing job, especially when you see what he's been working with, all pretty much recycled and scrounged parts.

[jargo]

great to hear there are others nearby,yes the boats in the water,moving on to a mooring at tweed as i contemplate and research where to start,i,m somewhat reluctant to begin as i love sailing her.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Cripes mate!

Mr Sibley is out at Hopkins Creek just past Chillingham, Gary (WX) is out at Uki and I'm just outside Murwillumbah at North Arm (and am the Rear Commodore of the newly formed Tweed Valley Sailing Club). I'm a bit crook at the moment but I'd love to come and see the ship. Are you in the mooring field at Fingal or Boyds Bay?

[PeterSibley]

G'day jargo .Welcome and good luck!

Whereabouts on the Tweed ? I passed by the other day and had a quick glance but I was driving in traffic so didn't look for new boats .

[WX]

Welcome Jargo, look forward to meeting you...do I sense an EBS coming up?:D

[Phil Y]

hi everyone ,first time post,first time boat restoration.i have a 1966 stella (based on the nordic folkboat) she is in need of a lot of tlc ,9 busted ribs ,dodgey keel bolts and a completley rotten deck.i,d appreciate any and all advice .
Have a good read of Larks thread in building & repair. Then either commit or run away. good luck.

[jargo]

hi guys ,on my way down to the tweed this weekend i hope and will be moored across from fingal ,i do look foward to meeting with you all.

[jargo]

0here ore a few pics of stella ILIMO,weather has kept me in southport had planned to sail to tweed heads today but what u gonna do

[jargo]

haven,t got the photo thing worked out yet

[WX]

jargo, have you had a mooring put down or are you leasing an existing one at Fingal?

[jargo]

i,ve organized to have a mooring put in ,but hasn,t happened yet

[WX]

i,ve organized to have a mooring put in ,but hasn,t happened yet
The weathers been a bit wild for even a short trip down the coast from what I have seen. Regarding getting a mooring put down I have heard it costs around $800, would that be right?

[jargo]

$1500.00 for the mooring to be made and installed,plus the nsw marine fees which amount to around 450.00.with nothing available on the broadwater its been my only option so far.i,ve toyed with staying put and putting that cash into the boat .aacess to a wider varity of hardstand and marine services etc v a permanent mooring.

[jargo]

$1500.00 for the mooring to be made and installed,plus the nsw marine fees which amount to around 450.00.with nothing available on the broadwater its been my only option so far.i,ve toyed with staying put and putting that cash into the boat .acess to a wider varity of hardstand and marine services etc v a permanent mooring.

[jargo]

i,m looking at the ribs that need replacing and figure i can laminate the new ones temporarley tacked beside the old ones so they are ready to go once i,m hauled out ,would appreciate any advice on how to make the new ribs (what timber ?,what adhesive etc) does this approach seem viable?

[WX]

We need photos mate.:)
Someone here will have a better idea than me on how to go about it but I would laminate the new frames and glue with epoxy. I used Flooded Gum (Rose Gum in QLD) for my boat and found it could be forced through a curve without steaming.
$1500! That's over twice what I was expecting and $450 fees...I am assuming that is yearly. Prices have doubled.

[WX]

I meant to ask, who did you see to organise the mooring?

[WX]

Hello Jargo, you there?
:)

[jargo]

hi been out of town the guy to contact re tweed moorings is (PETER 0429666099) ,i,ll have some photos in the next weel or so ,have a few computer issues here at the moment.

[WX]

Thanks for that. I had a look at NSW Maritime and the mooring fee for my boat (7.1-8 m) is only $227. So I am wondering why yours is so expensive?

[jargo]

i was told there was a one off set up fee for the mooring ,probably BS as so much is around the marine industry.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Your mooring fee PA on the Tweed will be $227 plus an initial establishment fee of $106 payable to NSW Maritime. The cost of the actual new mooring is borne by the applicant.http://www.alkiramarineservices.com.au/images/marine-services/mooring-aparatus.jpg

The cost will vary from $700 to $2K depending on how big you want it to be. I would talk to the local Maritime officers and get their recommendation based on the worst conditions they know to occur off Fingal. I do know that boats have dragged moorings there and one broke leading to a beaching on the shore of the golf course there.

[RFNK]

Hi Jargo, congratulations, I think the Stella is a really nice boat. I have a Folkboat that I restored and I have a Twister (which is another Holman design - also derived from the Folkboat) that I'm going to restore soon. All Stellas that I've seen have cracked ribs in the quarters where the turn into the bilge is just too tight for steamed timbers. Some fanatics will encourage you to steam in new timbers but in my view that's just stupid - why wouldn't they just snap again? The best way is to make up new ribs by laminating thin strips of something suitable (flooded gum, spotted gum, PNG rosewood, ash) with epoxy. I wouldn't try to sister the ribs or grave in new sections. It looks like crap and isn't worth the effort. You're going to have to rip your deck off anyway so it'll be fairly easy to get at the ribs to replace them.

Now, the deck ... I'll bet anything you like that your boat's got teak decking or something similar screwed into plywood, right? Well, don't even consider trying to salvage any part of your deck. Just rip the whole thing off - carefully though as you should find that the deck beams and sheer plank etc. are all good. You'll probably find rot in some parts of your mahogany cabinsides and coaming and probably in the top corners of the transom if it's mahogany. None of that's a big problem. With the deck removed, it's all easy to get at and you can grave new bits in quite easily - just make sure you cut out all rotten wood and NEVER let anyone talk you into using any goop that `cures' rot. Cut it right out. Once the deck is off, you'll have good access to just about every part of the boat that you'll need access to, so keep it that way until you're just about finished. It's so much easier and more pleasant working in these little boats when there's no deck.

I'll also be removing the ballast from the Twister as I'm unsure of the condition of the keel bolts, so I'll be happy to share ideas on the best ways to do that when you get to it. If you're lucky, of course, you might be able to just turn your bolts out to replace them but you'll probably need to jack the boat up via a cradle arrangement and let the ballast down so you can cut the bolts between the ballast and keel. That's what I expect I'll be doing.

Good luck and don't lose heart - Stellas are classics and well worth the effort of getting them back into shape. Please find a way to post pictures!!
Rick

[WX]

Your mooring fee PA on the Tweed will be $227 plus an initial establishment fee of $106 payable to NSW Maritime. The cost of the actual new mooring is borne by the applicant.http://www.alkiramarineservices.com.au/images/marine-services/mooring-aparatus.jpg

The cost will vary from $700 to $2K depending on how big you want it to be. I would talk to the local Maritime officers and get their recommendation based on the worst conditions they know to occur off Fingal. I do know that boats have dragged moorings there and one broke leading to a beaching on the shore of the golf course there.
Thanks Duncan that actually clears up a couple of points.

[WX]

Set up a Photobucket account to store your online photos and link to them from there. In photobucket right click on the image > copy image location<. On your thread here click the image icon above and click on the From URL tab, paste your link into the field and untick the Retrieve from square. That should do it for you.

[simonmags]

Hi Jargo,

Their is a good thread on posting photos in the buildig and repair section at the minute. Located here (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?135364-Posting-photos)

Are your images on a photo-hosting service? Yes? Then do this..

1. Click on the image in your hosting service to get the full size image.
2. Right click on the image and select "Copy Image Location".
3. Return to the forum and click on the "Insert Image" icon.
4. Select "From URL".
5. Paste the URL into the window.
6. UNCHECK, yes, UNCHECK the "Retrieve remote file...." box.
7. Click OK.

By the way let us know if you happen to come down Adelaide way once you get those ribs fixed up.

Cheers

[jargo]

hi all living aboard almost full time in bums bay the gold coast trying out the photo thing http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc421/jargo2/DSCN0328.jpg

[jargo]

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc421/jargo2/DSCN0438.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc421/jargo2/DSCN0431.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc421/jargo2/DSCN0432.jpg

a few more

[jargo]

that seems to have the pic thing going ok ,i,ll get a few of the structural pics up as ASAP

[Larks]

Close.......To post them on here, copy the image URL, click on the little icon that looks like a tree in a picture frame, third from the right, click on the right tab to insert the image from the URL, copy the URL into the box and get rid of the tick next to "retrieve remote file and reference locally


http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc421/jargo2/DSCN0328.jpg

[RFNK]

Nice
Rick

[jargo]

hi guys,getting down to purchasing materials for the new deck any advice and or suggestions?

[Duncan Gibbs]

Go to Greg (Larks) at Stella Marine... He's sure to give you trade! :D

[Duncan Gibbs]

Seriously, I would be thinking about having a good poke around at the deck beam/beam shelf junctions and seeing if there's any nasties up there if the deck is rotten as well. It's going to be hard to replace the deck without the boat laid up on dry land.

What kind of deck do you want? Ply? If so Sharps Ply in Currumbin has reasonably price marine ply. If you want a teak deck you'll want to chase some of the specialist timber companies like Watts Wood just south of Brizzy.

[Larks]

Go to Greg (Larks) at Stella Marine... He's sure to give you trade! :D

only if you want to build it out of aluminium

[Duncan Gibbs]

And only if you give him the job of building it!

[RFNK]

It would be easier to replace the deck on land but not impossible to do it on water if you're in a secure location. You could easily do it in five pieces. The bow section split into two pieces at the king plank. The two side decks. The afterdeck in one piece (could be two but one piece is easier). To join the ply sheets (use 10 or 12mm), use a halving joint by routing out half of the thickness back about 80mm at each join. Glue and screw the ply pieces to your deck frame after you've marked it all out and recorded where all the hardware sits, the necessary angle of fastenings etc. After that, use fibreglass (can't recall the weight) and clear epoxy - you'll need two coats of epoxy. Use only enough epoxy to fill the weave, no pooling at all, and apply the second coat as soon as the first coat has gone off. Do this glassing in the afternoon when the temperature is falling as this will avoid air bubbles. Don't do it too late in the afternoon or you'll get curing problems. After that, apply a fairing coat or two, sand that fair and apply a suitable deck finish. If I were you, I'd get all your materials from Boatcraft Pacific and they will also advise you on application procedures. Use 316 SS fastenings. One more tip - where you join sheets of glass, sand out a trench in the plywood to a depth of double the glass thickness. Overlap the glass sheets. The epoxy will bury the join in the trench. Oh, one more tip: sand or rout the edges of the ply to create a curved edge at the gunwhales. Take the glass over the edges onto the top plank. You can bury these edges with the rubbing strip (sponson). Exposed glass or plywood edges are classic places for moisture penetration so make sure all edges are soaked and covered with epoxy.
Rick

[jargo]

thanks again for the great advice guys ,i will be hauling her out to replace the deck and any beams etc that have to go,ricks advice to get rid of any timber showing deterioration is the way i plan to go at it .thanks so much once again.

[jargo]

i,ve decided to lease an industrial shed to put my stella in and be able to carry out the restoration.my next consideration is a cradle of some type to stand her up in and how this cradle might be moved in and out of the shed.anyone had the experience?i,d appreciate any advice as usual.

[jargo]

the question has arisen around the rate at which an old wooden boat drys out and the subsquent control of this process,any thoughts?

[WX]

Hey Jargo, I was wondering where you had got to. She looks good. I have to build a cradle as well but I haven't settled on a design yet.

[jargo]

hi wx,i,ve been looking at few of larks pics and the cradle he used ,almost exactly what the big marinas use on there hardstand

[RFNK]

You could just get a big second-hand boat trailer and convert that. Or you could make up a steel cradle - basically a platform with adjustable arms. Or you could just have the boat carried to where you want to work on it, rig up some braces and run it in and out of the shed on pipes as rollers.

Any wooden boat will dry out and shrink when out of the water. With a clinker boat, you really don't need to worry about it too much. Once you put it back in the wate, the timber will swell again. Lots of Americans and Europeans do this every year! You just need to have a pump running when you put it back in and I believe it's a good idea to use some temporary caulking to stem the leaks while the timber is taking up. This is not something to lose sleep over.
Rick

[Larks]

Where are you thinking of pulling her out and working on her Jargo? Most of the yards have cradles for the boats and you may find some have cradles on wheels, if you'r going to do the work in a marine yard no worries, but if not it may be worth doing a ring around to see if any of them will hire out a cradle to you.

How long do you think you'll be out of the water? When you go back in the water, if you book to be the last lift of the day you may also be able to talk the yard into leaving you in the slings overnight while the hull takes up. You have to think about tide of course so you'd ideally pick a time when there is not a lot of movement so that the tide doesn't lift you out of the slings overnight.

I made my own cradle up and would change it slightly next time around to stop it sagging so much in the middle, but it was easy enough and I expect that I could probably sell it when I'm finished with it. I was lucky with the wheels as they are not cheap but you can buy them from Fallshaw castors, to get some rated at 1 tonne each, which would probably be enough (4 tonne total - what would the FB weigh?) they'll cost you about $180.00 each. 1860kg rated wheels go up to $215.00 each.

[WX]

Where are you thinking of pulling her out and working on her Jargo? Most of the yards have cradles for the boats and you may find some have cradles on wheels, if you'r going to do the work in a marine yard no worries, but if not it may be worth doing a ring around to see if any of them will hire out a cradle to you.

How long do you think you'll be out of the water? When you go back in the water, if you book to be the last lift of the day you may also be able to talk the yard into leaving you in the slings overnight while the hull takes up. You have to think about tide of course so you'd ideally pick a time when there is not a lot of movement so that the tide doesn't lift you out of the slings overnight.

I made my own cradle up and would change it slightly next time around to stop it sagging so much in the middle, but it was easy enough and I expect that I could probably sell it when I'm finished with it. I was lucky with the wheels as they are not cheap but you can buy them from Fallshaw castors, to get some rated at 1 tonne each, which would probably be enough (4 tonne total - what would the FB weigh?) they'll cost you about $180.00 each. 1860kg rated wheels go up to $215.00 each.
Some good information there Greg.

[RFNK]

I had the Folkboat on a boat trailer to restore it and I now have the Twister sitting on the ground with props. I much prefer the latter as I can get at everything a lot more easily. I'll need to alter the setup when I lift the boat to drop the ballast and then I'll need to set up rollers to get the boat out to a spot where a crane can lift it when it's all finished. For my purposes and location, this is the best setup. I think the choice of setup just depends on how and where you'll be working on the boat. I don't think it's worth worrying about cradles etc. unless you're going to be moving the boat quite a bit or, like Greg, you need to roll it in and out of a shed.
Rick

[jargo]

thanks again guys ,i really appreciate the advice ,i guess i,ll see what sort of shed i can rent and have a look at the acess,the boat will be in the shed for a few months and said shed then becomes my accomadation while i pull the stella apart.thanks for the tip on the boat drying out rick,i,m breathing a bit easier.as i,m living aboard right now in an area frequented by lots of visiting yachts i seem to have a never ending stream of people poping by in thier dinghies ,asking about the boat and then doing thier best to freak me out with potential problems they feel sure i will encounter.my boat was owned for many years by sydney yachtswoman and legend anne gash ,i chanced to meet i visiting salior recently whom had known anne all his life,he new the boat right away and filled me in on more of its history.it was annes second boat and she sailed her to sanfracisco and back along with over 12 trips to NZ as well as twice to WA aroung the bottom.being much impressed the guy went on to burst my bubble by informing me that, you don,t buy a boat on how many miles it has done but on how many it has left in her. don,t you just love these helpfull types,

[WX]

thanks again guys ,i really appreciate the advice ,i guess i,ll see what sort of shed i can rent and have a look at the acess,the boat will be in the shed for a few months and said shed then becomes my accomadation while i pull the stella apart.thanks for the tip on the boat drying out rick,i,m breathing a bit easier.as i,m living aboard right now in an area frequented by lots of visiting yachts i seem to have a never ending stream of people poping by in thier dinghies ,asking about the boat and then doing thier best to freak me out with potential problems they feel sure i will encounter.my boat was owned for many years by sydney yachtswoman and legend anne gash ,i chanced to meet i visiting salior recently whom had known anne all his life,he new the boat right away and filled me in on more of its history.it was annes second boat and she sailed her to sanfracisco and back along with over 12 trips to NZ as well as twice to WA aroung the bottom.being much impressed the guy went on to burst my bubble by informing me that, you don,t buy a boat on how many miles it has done but on how many it has left in her. don,t you just love these helpfull types,
Wow, Anne Gash's boat, what a score! She lived down in Nimbin for a while, boy she covered some miles in that boat.

[jargo]

had a few more thoughts on a cradle etc ,i,m looking at ACRO PROPS,avaible second hand from scaffolders for about $30 each and extenable to 3.6 meters,i figured a base would need to be made for each ,or maybe they are available,i,d have the boat sitting on her keel on blocks.lifting the boat to remove the ballast is the next consideration.i believe the boat weighs a bit over 2 metric ton.planning to haul out in feburary.

[RFNK]

Have a look at the Twister Restoration thread in Building and Repair. The props we made were made from old Acro props. I'll post a better picture of them later if the ones there are not clear enough. They work very well and were not difficult to make.
Rick

[euro]

had a few more thoughts on a cradle etc ,i,m looking at ACRO PROPS,avaible second hand from scaffolders for about $30 each and extenable to 3.6 meters,i figured a base would need to be made for each ,or maybe they are available,i,d have the boat sitting on her keel on blocks.lifting the boat to remove the ballast is the next consideration.i believe the boat weighs a bit over 2 metric ton.planning to haul out in feburary.

I considered a few options and then got lucky with a second-hand cradle which is much bigger than I need but has a central void so that the keel can sit on blocks and multiple adjustable props. I also considered using Acro props, in fact might still cannabalise a few and put them in the vacant housings on the cradle when/if we require a "tighter" cradle around the topsides - probably when it comes to lifting off the keel. There are pictures of the cradle, which I think is a pretty sensible layout, at http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?137161-H28-Or-Not-my-New-Project.&p=3164772#post3164772

[jargo]

i,m considering selling my stella is there a section within this site

[Larks]

Not one that's of much use here in Oz jargo. Your best bet is through an Oz site such as www.boatpoint.com.au or even through ebay or Gumtree