The Herreshoff leeboard ketch

[John B]

from sensible cruising designs always interested me because of the comments about it being the last of LFH's designs and that it deserved to be built.
I first saw the Tern in a lagoon in the Abel Tasman park in the South Island in 1981 or 82.
"Neat" I thought " must get a boat." and did.
I took this photo a few days ago at the Mahurangi Regatta where she ( sans leeboards)raced. On the beach I learned from her owner that she must have been brand new when I first saw in the 80's, that apparently she's still the only one built (to his knowledge) and that she has spent much time cruising around NZ as well as trips offshore to Tonga and the like.
The leeboards are off because he broke one dropping off a wave at christmas.
1982
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/pfef7d12c2224f264b98df0c1db87ebd9/fbfe102c.jpg
1990's
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid16/pb979a3e4e1927e5c96741f191f99409b/fdf32260.jpg

[ 06-05-2003, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Thad]

John, How does she sail without the leeboards? Which plan is that? Goldeneye? There are a number of Meadowlarks that I know of but not the other.

[John B]

It didn't have any identification in the book that I recall Thad. Just the start paragraph leading off with a commentary on how it was the last of his designs.
Chris sailed it for 3 years without the leeboards before .He had refitted them and had them back on for some time before he broke one a couple of months ago.
Pretty much what you would expect...... pointed ok but made tons of leeway. He was into passage making when they were off ,which did not mean sailing on the wind. Iron topsail for that , I gather.
You know how some boats look small?. This one looks much smaller than it is until you get right up to it . 36 ft I think and with an aft cabin !!!!

Right ... got the book in front of me. 99% sure its the "Leeboard ketch" on page 330. designed in 1963. here's the anomily though. The stern/ cockpit is different with a Golden Ball cockpit position plus the aft cabin snuck in there as well.
There you go.

[This message has been edited by John B (edited 02-01-2001).]

[Dave Fleming]

Got an old price list from Elizabeth Vaughn circa 1989 and it shows a Leeboard Ketch, Design 107 and plans were $225 USD.

[Zane Lewis]

Hi I was wondering how you managed to Anchor where you did at Scotts landing without going on the bottom. I had assumed you were a H36 or a close variation.
I was on the 34'?"x 10'4"x 5' Yawl Mischief anchored just out from you.

What are the dimentions of your hull, how close to a medow lark are you?

Zane

[John B]

Zane, Tern isn't mine.
mines the one where you or your crew said
" Do you need a snorkel to sail that boat" just as we got in from Auckland. LOL
We sat out the race this time and anchored on the other side of the island for the BBQ.
I've never seen your yacht before . Age? Builder/Designer ?.

John

This is our boat Waione. You can't see in this shot , but there is in fact a demountable snorkel attached to the spray dodger for those difficult days.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1257037&a=11107238&p=38941886&Sequence=0&res=high

[This message has been edited by John B (edited 02-01-2001).]

[Thad]

Thanks for the details John, I'll look it up when I get to the shop. Beautiful picture of Waione at rest.

[Andrew]

I'm curious about the small gaff on the sails. I notice Wharram has used them on a lot of his catamaran designs. It seems to be almost standard marconi rig. What are the advantages?

[Thad]

Yup, there it is, with the lines on the next page. The short curved gaff is typical of Dutch boats and L.F. used it a number of times. Even with ballast and the 9' 6" beam she is a shallow draft vessel and lowering the center of effort is to your stability advantage. On sailing without the boards I can see that she has more keel and more deadrise than Meadowlark so she should do all right sideslipping along. With her deadrise and beam she should be quite comfortable, and she does look good. Big jib?

[John B]

Only about 110 % , Maybe less , as I recall it Thad.

[Thad]

Sounds reasonable to me. With her modest spars and consequent forestay angle more would be a strange shape anyway. Balance is the thing.

[Mike Field]

I've got a Turner print of The Regatta Off East Cowes Castle, all sporting those tiny curved gaffs. The painting dates from 1828.

[Foster Price]

Hello Guys (& John B)

John me lad you're slipping a bit. At least one other NZ boat has been built after the Herreschoff 38' leeboard cruiser. This boat was owned by Gary Underwood, who had her built up in the Solomon Islands. His version was sort of flush decked, and had a long shallow keel. I think it drew about 3'. It was I think ketch rigged, with a sprit boom on the main, which looks as it has been repeated on the boat in your photo. He circumnavigated in it, including a cruise up the eastern seaboard of the USA, where he met such legends as Philip C Bolger and Harold Payson.

Gary is now in Whangarei (NZ) and has designed several boats that have a lot in common with the Herreschoff Leeboarder and Bolgers boats, the series called Bootstrap and Shoestring etc.. His latest personal boat is I think about 40', and has leeboards. Can't remember how he said it was rigged. It was also intended for a circumnavigation.

Interestingly he thought the boat with leeboards would be faster (he raced a lot in cruiser classes in the 38') and safer in extreme conditions - he must subscribe to Commodore Munroe's shallow draft theory of seaworthiness!!

Great Photos - Regards

Foster Price
Southland, New Zealand

[Zane Lewis]

Hi John,
First up it was not me that made the comment about the snorkel. I suspect it was my dad who owns most of Mischief. I was on the Helm. None the less given the ride you must have had it could have been appropriate. My contriibnution was the sails, some drawing and design work and labour.

Mischief was launched in 1997. Based on a 1940/50's design of a 25ft Yawl done for my Grandfather by George Dickson of Nelson. Mr Dickson did a lot of design work in partnership with Clark of Wellington. We enlarged the plan and converted the construction details to 3 skin cold molded and laminated framing with a glass over.

As Mischief is based in Whitianga (She won the handicape winter series the last two years) and I am in Auckland with a young Family so if you are ever looking for Crew give me a call 021 860 159.


Zane.
Ps Mischief could be for sale See WB Jan 2001.

[rbgarr]

Zane-

From the lines in the WB ad for 'Mischief' she looks very husky and roomy for her size. More like a Winthrop Warner design than Rhodes or S&S, to my mind anyway.

Any chance you could put up a picture of her for us to see?

[Zane Lewis]

Well yes Mischief has a lot of space for a boat 34ft LOD, 44ft LOA. I have no Photos of the interia. It is imatation tongue and grove Macrocarpa two pot bright finished and epoxyed on to the ply bulkheads and the Cabin ceiling. Head room is well over 6 ft.

Typical sailing speeds are from 5 to 7 knts. Over 7knts the helm starts to load up. We do see 8knts regually with the wind free and have been 9.5knts plus

The first photo is OK the 2nd has better resolution. The dingy is on the cabin top.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1506782&a=11376849&p=40007486

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1506782&a=11376849&p=40010880

Zane

[John B]

Hi Foster.... Good christmas I hope.
Chris's comment to me about the only one built was made because the others which had been built had had their original design substantially altered ( as often happens with "Herreshoff " designs here.)(and he quoted a couple to me.) I must admit that I didn't then realise that there was the compromise made with respect to the aft cabin, so one could argue that LFH's dream has been messed with a little.

As far as I am concerned, I would accept that because unlike many of the h28's and "mobjacks" built around here there is no change to the profile/ freeboard/rig and therefore to me ,the design is still intact.
Its a Herreschoff built to his design and not inspired by him as so many are.

Zane great to see those photos and great to see the boat as well....... we had good laugh about the snorkel remark. Would you believe that we don't often get wet? True though, thanks to a couple of important devices.
Did I say that we won our race in the Auckland Anniversary regatta. ( I just like to drop that into conversation.)
Mischief certainly looks like a capable sort of boat. Does the Nelson connection mean that she was built there as well ? ( My wife is from there)

As for selling the boat, I always find that a good idea is not to.
John

[Zane Lewis]

Hi John, Impressed to see you won the race back. Do you stay dry aft due to Waione's LOD or does the fine bow not throw up a lot of water.

The design is from Nelson as is Dad.
As for constrution, Mischief was built inh the Waikato by ourselves using labour only boat builders for the skilled work and ourselves for the elbow work. Plus a lot of networking. Ie you will find a lot of castings that are on our boat also on Long White Cloud etc.

As for selling, if we do we would be looking to recover our costs only. (About 1/2 proffessional replacement)

[John B]

Zane.
A lot of thought and skill must have gone into Waione's bow design. Somehow, Charles Bailey jnr in 1907 managed to accurately predict that at around 6 knots to windward , any deflected waves or spray would land amidships exactly 33 feet aft of the stem. IE the cockpit.
The devices I'm talking about are
#1 the rather cunning spray dodger which nigh on disappears when required, but which can be pulled up at the hint of a windward leg.

#2 The capping on the cockpit coaming which I fitted when I noticed that a lot of the "wet" was actually water racing along the windward deck at 6 or 7 mph until it met the winch base, then turning at 90 degrees vertically and joining in with its old friend, the water it had seperated from at the bow.( Thus landing cumulatively exactly 33 ft aft of the bow )
we are now transformed and stay mostly dry.

Bliss

[John B]

resurrected because of the Golden ball thread FYI.

[ 06-05-2003, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: John B ]