PDA

View Full Version : Theyre selling like hotcakes!



Dutch
08-04-2011, 06:15 AM
hurry and get yours from government motors!


The July sales numbers (http://nlpc.org/stories/2011/08/02/chevy-volt-sales-slump-gm-clarifies-%E2%80%9Cvirtually-sold-out%E2%80%9D-comments) are out and the Chevy Volt continues to electrify (get it?) the country. GM sold … 125 Volts last month!
Way back in March (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/car-talk_552899.html) I made fun of the Volt for selling 281 units in February. Turns out, February was a good month. But wait, there’s more! GM says they’re going to increase production (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-27/gm-volt-supply-poised-to-surge-in-race-with-nissan-s-leaf-cars.html) to 5,000 Volts per month in order to keep up with demand. You see, they claim that the reason the Volt isn’t selling is that they can’t keep enough cars on the lot. A GM spokeswoman recently claimed (http://www.egmcartech.com/2011/08/02/chevrolet-volt-sold-out/) that they are “virtually sold out.” Which is virtually true. Mark Modica (http://nlpc.org/stories/2011/08/02/chevy-volt-sales-slump-gm-clarifies-%E2%80%9Cvirtually-sold-out%E2%80%9D-comments) called around his local Chevy dealers and found plenty of Volts waiting for an environmentally conscious driver to bring them home.
All told, GM has sold close to 2,700 Volts. (http://green.autoblog.com/2011/05/03/sales-update-nissan-leaf-hits-573-chevy-volt-at-493-in-april/) (Funny aside: There’s a Volt in my neighborhood and a Volt that parks in my garage at work. So I see almost 0.1 percent of all the Volts in America on a daily basis.) But hey, the EV future is just around the corner.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/print/blogs/chevy-volt-still-not-selling_581956.html

wizbang 13
08-04-2011, 08:25 AM
I have no use for an electric car, but it would be the Chevy part, not the electric part, that puts me off.

Chris Coose
08-04-2011, 08:33 AM
That's right, cheering for failure.

Due to their completly ****** ideology, teabaggers are compelled to salute the failure of a domestic produced product that has an American market.

Bob Adams
08-04-2011, 09:30 AM
Really Chris? I see nothing about that here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_bag_(sexual_act)

ljb5
08-04-2011, 09:33 AM
One of my neighbors just got one. He's so ecstatic about it that he insisted I take it for a spin around the neighborhood.

I'm not a car guy, but it certainly seemed to me like a really nice car. Apart from the motor, they did a nice job with the interior, seats, dash and exterior styling.

I suspect all cars are selling pretty slow right now.

Paul Pless
08-04-2011, 09:44 AM
I'm not a car guy, but it certainly seemed to me like a really nice car. Apart from the motor, they did a nice job with the interior, seats, dash and exterior styling.I've seen several of them. I agree I think its very well done and clean design.

Dutch
08-04-2011, 10:45 AM
damn American people dont know whats good for them. time to create a new law and jam these damn lectric mobiles down their throats!!!!!!!

Chris Coose
08-04-2011, 11:09 AM
Dutch, you are gonna love the new gas milage mandates, jammed right up your keister.

David W Pratt
08-04-2011, 11:09 AM
I went to the Volt web site and I defy you to find out how many HP the electric motor puts out.
Also, with a driver and passenger of moderate size, GVW will be North of 4,000lb.
The gas engine is listed at 1.4L, I'm no engineer, but that seems awfully large to run the electric generator.

David W Pratt
08-04-2011, 11:43 AM
One reviewer said it increased his elec bill by $100.00/wk.
Say 50 wks/yr
At $4.00/gal that is 1250 gal
At 25 mpg that is 31,250 miles
So charging it will cost about three times what running a modestly efficient all gas car would for a year.
There may be a mistake in my calculations (wouldn't be the first time) but it seems a losing deal, even ignoring my new vocabulary term for the week, "the marginal utility of money" used to buy it.

Paul Pless
08-04-2011, 11:46 AM
I went to the Volt web site and I defy you to find out how many HP the electric motor puts out.

149 HP, 273 lb ft torque

Paul Pless
08-04-2011, 11:49 AM
So charging it will cost about three times what running a modestly efficient all gas car would for a year.One kilowatt hour of charge gets you approximately 6 miles under average driving conditions in the Volt. Its should be fairly easy to figure the cost of running it electrically.

bobbys
08-04-2011, 11:52 AM
That's right, cheering for failure.

Due to their completly ****** ideology, teabaggers are compelled to salute the failure of a domestic produced product that has an American market..

Do you notice the irony in your tag line after you compared groups of people you disagree with to homosexual acts?

Bob Adams
08-04-2011, 11:56 AM
One reviewer said it increased his elec bill by $100.00/wk.
Say 50 wks/yr
At $4.00/gal that is 1250 gal
At 25 mpg that is 31,250 miles
So charging it will cost about three times what running a modestly efficient all gas car would for a year.
There may be a mistake in my calculations (wouldn't be the first time) but it seems a losing deal, even ignoring my new vocabulary term for the week, "the marginal utility of money" used to buy it.

What reviewer? Unless he's paying an extremely high price per KWH or his math is off. Doesn't smell right.

David W Pratt
08-04-2011, 12:46 PM
Sorry, I didn't record it, just Googled "volt horsepower" and got a bunch of hits.

ljb5
08-04-2011, 12:50 PM
One kilowatt of charge gets you approximately 6 miles under average driving conditions in the Volt. Its should be fairly easy to figure the cost of running it electrically.

I think you meant "kilowatt*hour," not kilowatt.

Around here that costs about $0.15. So that comes out to about 40 miles per dollar.

That would be about equivalent to a car that gets 120 mpg, (assuming gas at $3 per gallon.)

Paul Pless
08-04-2011, 01:21 PM
I think you meant "kilowatt*hour," not kilowatt.

Around here that costs about $0.15. So that comes out to about 40 miles per dollar.

That would be about equivalent to a car that gets 120 mpg, (assuming gas at $3 per gallon.)I think that's about right. Currently one area savings in electric vehicle operating cost versus gas or diesel is the avoidance of the various road use taxes factored into fuel prices.

Dan McCosh
08-04-2011, 01:26 PM
149 HP, 273 lb ft torque That's the gas motor.

Dan McCosh
08-04-2011, 01:31 PM
One reviewer said it increased his elec bill by $100.00/wk.
Say 50 wks/yr
At $4.00/gal that is 1250 gal
At 25 mpg that is 31,250 miles
So charging it will cost about three times what running a modestly efficient all gas car would for a year.
There may be a mistake in my calculations (wouldn't be the first time) but it seems a losing deal, even ignoring my new vocabulary term for the week, "the marginal utility of money" used to buy it. There is not a state in the U.S. that charges enough for electricity to create a $100 weekly bill. The battery is 16 kwh, which means it takes about $2 to fully charge it at 12 cents per Kwh--the national average. Since it takes all night to recharge it, it is difficult to spend more than that.

Lew Barrett
08-04-2011, 03:36 PM
There is not a state in the U.S. that charges enough for electricity to create a $100 weekly bill. The battery is 16 kwh, which means it takes about $2 to fully charge it at 12 cents per Kwh--the national average. Since it takes all night to recharge it, it is difficult to spend more than that.

Facts are the enemy of righteous wrath and rampant speculation. I knocked GM a couple of years ago and you (rightly) corrected my thinking. I don't doubt it will be hard for them going forward, but I truly hope they make it, and build products I want to buy. And why not? It serves us all well if they do.

But seemingly for some it doesn't matter how good a job GM does in product development. "Gubmint" Motors is now officially on the "please fail" list.

Dutch
08-04-2011, 03:40 PM
Facts are the enemy of righteous wrath and rampant speculation. I knocked GM a couple of years ago and you (rightly) corrected my thinking. It doesn't matter how good a job GM does in product development. "Gubmint" Motors s now fficially on the "please fail" list.

It supports a particular agenda.

hate to break it to you but no " states" sell electricity. that is done by private corporations for now. :rolleyes:

Dan McCosh
08-04-2011, 03:52 PM
hate to break it to you but no " states" sell electricity. that is done by private corporations for now. :rolleyes:Electricity is mainly a public utility, where the states set the rates.

Dan McCosh
08-04-2011, 04:09 PM
FWIW, GM sold about 25,000 Cruze models in July, a car which shares many components with the Volt. The volt is running at about one-third its projected annual sales rate after eight months of production. That's about the same percentage shortfall as Toyota had with its Tundra pickup launch--arguably the biggest money-loser of any vehicle launched in the U.S. The Volt's projected U.S. sales was about 10,000 per year by the end of 2011. So far, slightly less than a third of that number have been sold.

Lew Barrett
08-04-2011, 06:43 PM
hate to break it to you but no " states" sell electricity. that is done by private corporations for now. :rolleyes:

You break little to me but wind.:d

I never mentioned electric rates or how power is sold or sourced. My comment addresses only the disappointing righteousness of Americans who prefer to see a great American enterprise fail so that they can be "right."

Woxbox
08-04-2011, 07:46 PM
Well, the Camry starts around $20,000. The Volt starts at $32,000. So lets say they're equally comfortable and reliable, just for the sake of argument. How many miles do you have to drive your Volt to get that $12,000 back?

This is the whole problem with hybrid and electric vehicles right now. The purchase prices are so much higher than comparable conventional cars not a one of them makes any sense on a purely economic basis. The people I know who have bought hybrids acknowledge this, and that they buy them out of principle, not to save money.

Now if the price of gas were doubled, these cars would begin to look attractive...

Lew Barrett
08-04-2011, 08:33 PM
Well, the Camry starts around $20,000. The Volt starts at $32,000. So lets say they're equally comfortable and reliable, just for the sake of argument. How many miles do you have to drive your Volt to get that $12,000 back?

This is the whole problem with hybrid and electric vehicles right now. The purchase prices are so much higher than comparable conventional cars not a one of them makes any sense on a purely economic basis. The people I know who have bought hybrids acknowledge this, and that they buy them out of principle, not to save money.

Now if the price of gas were doubled, these cars would begin to look attractive...

I generally agree, but would discuss this further. First adopters will always pay a price (premium) for the privilege. I rode in a friend's Prius the other day (a better Toyota analogy I think, though I understand why you made yours). It's not my preferred conveyance as I am an enthusiast and prefer my GTI. Still, every time I ride in one, I am impressed by how pleasant it is to be a passenger in a modern hybrid, especially in the city. They are quiet, and it is a pleasant thing not to hear or feel the motor when they are in "the zone." The Prius is also smooth in it's transitions and is nicely packaged within. I presume people are willing to pay a premium for these benefits so making a direct one to one analogy is not always suitable as there will always be folks prepared to pay extra to get what they perceive is a bit more. There is no reason to believe that those who can afford to won't enjoy similar, even amplified benefits from a vehicle like the Volt.
I think it is a matter of open acceptance that there is disappointment that the cost of these vehicles and their associated systems and batteries have not come down more and faster. We are used to the prices of technology dropping rapidly, but these vehicles seem to require additional systems that add to the price of entry and frustrate immediate adoption by all.
The bet is that the future simply will require of us greater expense to enjoy the luxury of personal transportation and these vehicles simply presage what is to follow if everybody insists on driving around in their own cage. The bikers will tell you that all a person really needs is two wheels and those, motorized or not, provide mechanized personal transport as efficiently as is possible at this state of the art.

What frosts me is when the self proclaimed patriots on the forum cheer as American institutions stumble or seem to flounder, rather than encouraging and rooting for the home team. In actuslly discussing if the Volt is a success or not, I'd sooner leave the actual details to an expert like Dan.

bobbys
08-04-2011, 08:47 PM
What frosts me is when the self proclaimed patriots on the forum cheer as American institutions stumble or seem to flounder, rather than encouraging and rooting for the home team. In actuslly discussing if the Volt is a success or not, I'd sooner leave the actual details to an expert like Dan.[/QUOTE].

What frosts me is i buy merican while every lib has a Volvo, Suburue, Toyota, Bmw, and they lecture.

Come on Lew you know libs pretty much buy those rigs.

You can drive through a liberal town here and you will see what they drive..

I would rather support Americans with my money

Garret
08-04-2011, 08:59 PM
I just drove a Ford Fusion Hybrid yesterday. Bit lower mileage than the Prius (44 traveling @ 73+ where the Prius runs 47 or so) - but absolutely blows the Prius out of the water when it comes to comfort, looks & driveability. It was actually fun (no Lew - not a GTI;-), while a Prius makes me think prissy chemistry teacher.

Less $ too.

Edit: In fairness, it should be noted that, as a guy who likes fun cars, I really dislike the Prius. Boring, uncomfortable & lousy visibility. Did I mention boring? Makes my beater Jetta TDI look like a sports car.

Woxbox
08-04-2011, 09:33 PM
there will always be folks prepared to pay extra to get what they perceive is a bit more.

Absolutely true, Lew. And I've spent more than I've needed to on cars myself for the fun factor. No problem there. My issue is with people who argue that it makes economic sense to be an automotive trendsetter in a hybrid or electric car.

As to the US/foreign car arguments, we all know that it's totally bogus. All cars are put together with parts from all over the world. "American" cars are made in Canada, Mexico and South Korea. "German" and "Japanese" cars are made in the U.S. and other nations, too. I'm not sure what vehicle the avowed patriot should be driving, maybe a Harley?

Garret
08-04-2011, 09:50 PM
Harleys use Japanese parts. Hondas have a higher US component count than many "US" cars.

It ain't as simple as some would have it.

Lew Barrett
08-04-2011, 10:01 PM
What frosts me is i buy merican while every lib has a Volvo, Suburue, Toyota, Bmw, and they lecture.

Come on Lew you know libs pretty much buy those rigs.

You can drive through a liberal town here and you will see what they drive..

I would rather support Americans with my money

I didn't have you in mind Bobby, and I wouldn't expect you to be other than sensible on this issue.
I have vehicles from everywhere in the fleet. My trucks are always American because I think we do them so well.
My d.d. is a Volkswagen, my daughters have an HHR in one case and a Mazda3 in the other. They bought them themselves with advice from me. The HHR was a particularly amazing (good) deal, though I prefer the Mazda. If I were buying a car today you would have a hard time convincing me I shouldn't buy a Ford Mustang GT, although it is not the car I need. I would probably end up with the Camaro because I have a GM card.

I don't have anything whatsoever against people buying and driving whatever they like, and American vehicles need to stand up against the best the Germans, Japanese, Koreans and Italians (forget the Chinese....put a tariff on those!) have to offer. But I take umbrage wen somebody stands up, laughs and takes pleasure in the perceived failure of Chevrolet, using the chip he hopes to obtain as a political talking point.

It may or may not be a political talking point, but it is nothing to take pleasure in.

Dutch
08-04-2011, 11:28 PM
gm doubling production of crap cars americans dont want to buy.

what could go wrong?

leikec
08-05-2011, 01:12 AM
Absolutely true, Lew. And I've spent more than I've needed to on cars myself for the fun factor. No problem there. My issue is with people who argue that it makes economic sense to be an automotive trendsetter in a hybrid or electric car.

As to the US/foreign car arguments, we all know that it's totally bogus. All cars are put together with parts from all over the world. "American" cars are made in Canada, Mexico and South Korea. "German" and "Japanese" cars are made in the U.S. and other nations, too. I'm not sure what vehicle the avowed patriot should be driving, maybe a Harley?


My niece owned a Prius for a long time and she did very well on a cost-per-mile basis when she sold it because the resale value is much higher than initially envisioned due to the batteries outperforming expectations. Resale value has to be factored in in the overall appraisal of the cost of ownership.

And let's face it...anyone who drives ANY car has multiple reasons (rationalizations) to justify ownership. I currently drive a 1996 T-Bird. I paid $2000.00 for it, and I'll probably sell it next year for around $1200-1400...after driving the car for 50 thousand miles.

I didn't buy it because I was just dying to own a T-Bird--I bought it because it seemed like a decent buy and I thought it would be reliable, cheap transportation. It proved to be exactly that, and I could drive it to California tomorrow with nary a qualm. There are cars like this for sale in every area of the country on Craigslist every day. Nobody really NEEDS a new car.


Jeff C

Waddie
08-05-2011, 01:19 AM
Hybrids are girl cars, that's why they don't sell. Conversely, ALL macho cars/trucks are overpriced. Everyone knows guys who drive full size pickups, but never haul anything. Then there's the ultimate phallic symbol, the overpriced Hummer.

The Volt should have been styled by Porche, and been called something like "The Touchdown" or something else macho.

regards,
Waddie

bobbys
08-05-2011, 03:25 AM
If i got my hands on one of them volts i would jack it up in the rear, put on some cherry bombs or thrush pipes, slap on a STP sticker, lay down some shag on the dashboard, install a 8 track and steal your woman here!

PeterSibley
08-05-2011, 04:41 AM
If i got my hands on one of them volts i would jack it up in the rear, put on some cherry bombs or thrush pipes, slap on a STP sticker, lay down some shag on the dashboard, install a 8 track and steal your woman here!

Why ?

ljb5
08-05-2011, 05:07 AM
The purchase prices are so much higher than comparable conventional cars not a one of them makes any sense on a purely economic basis. The people I know who have bought hybrids acknowledge this, and that they buy them out of principle, not to save money.

Most car-buying choices cannot be justified on a purely economic basis. Lots of people pay extra for four-wheel drive, which is rarely, if ever, needed. People pay extra for "performance" which they never get to use because of traffic and/or speed limits. People pay extra for "luxury" which adds no economic benefit to the car. Should we even mention spoilers, over-sized wheels, and spinny hubcaps?

A lot of these decisions actually end up costing more up front and getting worse gas mileage.

Buying a hybrid to save money might not be economically justified (yet), but it's not the dumbest thing people do.

I expect to save about $4000 on gas over the life of my Prius. That's probably about break-even with a comparable car. If I had bought a BMW 525, I'd start out in the hole and go the wrong direction.

Kevin T
08-05-2011, 08:26 AM
My experience with the Prius has been fantastic and I am on my second one which is now either the third or fourth generation of the vehicle overall.

Drove the 1st one a 2005 model to 49,000 miles and got back 14k when I traded it in after paying a bit over 24k - Gas mileage was a solid 43 mpg
My new one, a 2010 paid 27k and have gotten a solid 48.5 / 49 mpg through 11,000 miles. Is it a Porsche no, that stays in the garage mostly, (Car nut my whole life). Does it "get up and go like the offering from Zuffenhausen ?, NO, but when the power setting is engaged and the electric motor, the battery, and the IC engine all engage, it can certainly get up to highway speeds well before the end of the "on ramp."

It is a great hauler, (lumber, 5 passengers, almost anything I've needed ) comfortable and very well equipped. The only thing I wished it had, which wasn't available when we bought it, is the feature that the Volt has, which is the "plug-in" capability. As I understand it, this gives one a forty or so mile range before the IC engine kicks in, which only satisfies the needs of around something like 80% of the population. For me it would require buying perhaps 2 or 3 tanks of gas all year.

Dan McCosh
08-05-2011, 09:02 AM
gm doubling production of crap cars americans dont want to buy.

what could go wrong? Which of the three GM models that currently are sold out don't Americans want to buy? Three of the top 10 best-selling cars in the US in July were GM products. Three were Ford, one Chrysler, and three were import brands.

Gerarddm
08-05-2011, 09:16 AM
What frosts me is i buy merican while every lib has a Volvo, Suburue, Toyota, Bmw, and they lecture.

Come on Lew you know libs pretty much buy those rigs.

You can drive through a liberal town here and you will see what they drive..

I would rather support Americans with my money


This kind of simplistic reasoning is but one example of the rot at the heart of the country. Not only that but it reeks of social insecurity, class envy, and jingoism.

"Buy 'Murican" didn't work for Wal-Mart, and it's an oxymoron in cars, where part sourcing is international and has been for decades. Welcome to reality, bubba.

bobbys
08-05-2011, 10:15 AM
This kind of simplistic reasoning is but one example of the rot at the heart of the country. Not only that but it reeks of social insecurity, class envy, and jingoism.

"Buy 'Murican" didn't work for Wal-Mart, and it's an oxymoron in cars, where part sourcing is international and has been for decades. Welcome to reality, bubba..

But im not in your scripted reality show.

leikec
08-05-2011, 10:36 AM
.

But im not in your scripted reality show.


That's true...in your mind you are partying with Snooki and dressing like one of Tony Soprano's pals...but then you wake up in Oregon with a bunch of liberal commies all around you and the fantasy is SHATTERED. :D


Jeff C

bobbys
08-05-2011, 10:44 AM
That's true...in your mind you are partying with Snooki and dressing like one of Tony Soprano's pals...but then you wake up in Oregon with a bunch of liberal commies all around you and the fantasy is SHATTERED. :D


Jeff C.

good one!:D