Long Point Skiff Plans Ordered

[jahlinux]

I have ordered the Long Point Skiff plans from Tom Hill.

http://www.thomasjhillboatdesigns.com/the_long_point.html

I’m planning to start building the boat this fall. After spending three days at the WoodenBoat Show I just can’t take it anymore. I’m looking for other builders of this boat in the hopes that I can learn from your experiences. I would really be interested in pictures. I’m planning on staying with Tom’s design for the most part, but I would like to figure out a way to get a dodger/cover on the boat. I really like the one Dick Pulsifer puts on his Pulsifer Hamptons. I know there are some older threads out there on this design, but I’m hoping to start a fresh one.

[doyle007]

I'm excited for you. I really like that boat, and would think that it would be perfect for flyfishing and plugging the sod banks here behind southern NJ.

Please start a thread once you do start your project, and post lots of details and photos.

Good luck.

[jahlinux]

My family is from the Ocean City area of Jersey so I know the area down in that part of the State. The Long Point Skiff would be a great boat for that area. Then again I think the boat is great for any area.

[holzbt]

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k253/holzboat/Long%20Point%20Skiff/IMG_4106.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k253/holzboat/Long%20Point%20Skiff/IMG_4110.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k253/holzboat/Long%20Point%20Skiff/IMG_4004.jpg

You can put a deck on it similar to this if you want to install a dodger.

[jahlinux]

You can put a deck on it similar to this if you want to install a dodger.

Thanks for the pictures. I was figuring I would need to expand the deck. I want to try and keep it as close to the original plans as I can.

[jahlinux]

Plans arrived! Unfortunately I'm working all weekend so won't get a lot of time to study them. The next step is to clean out the area of the basement where I'm building the hull. (It's a walk out with double doors, the finished boat will fit out, if you're wondering.)

Does anybody have any advise for basement building? I'm figuring I'll do must of the cutting outside, wait to sand and paint the hull in the spring when it will be warmer and I can move the skiff into the garage.

[BrianW]

Looking forward to the build thread.

I like the looks of these boats!

[jahlinux]

You can put a deck on it similar to this if you want to install a dodger.

I'm starting to have second thoughts about the Long Point Skiff. I really love the lines of the boat. I've watched Tom Hill's boat building video. Now I'm thinking I may want a design that doesn't require the added expense and time of building a jig. The only problem is I have not found any designs that are as good looking as the Long Point. I love the high sides and vertical stem. Can anyone who has built the Long Point give me a feel for how much time and money they spent building the jig?

[SMARTINSEN]

Does anybody have any advise for basement building? Plenty of good light.


I do not know the particulars of this boat, but a building jig is usually made from framing lumber. 2x4 or 2x6, and maybe some 1/2"cdx gussets. Fairly inexpensive in the big picture.

[jahlinux]

Plenty of good light.

I do not know the particulars of this boat, but a building jig is usually made from framing lumber. 2x4 or 2x6, and maybe some 1/2"cdx gussets. Fairly inexpensive in the big picture.

The plans call for using 8 sheets of 1/2" AC Plywood for the jig.

[hightop]

I don't see why you'd need ac for the jig, I've used 1/2" OSB ply for several builds molds, it's under $7.00 a 4x8' sheet, & much faster to cut to shape than nailing or screwing together pieces of framing type lumber.. As far as time building a jig, it's really not much % overall of the total build time of a boat. The only boats that I know of that don't require some form of a jig would be the Payson-Bolger Instant boats.

[jahlinux]

I have been meaning to post some pictures and notes on the progress I'm making on my boat. I ordered the plans in July and construction on the jig started October 7, 2011. After studying the plans, reading Tom Hill's book and watching his DVD everything seemed to go well.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7012/6629444051_b5383e833d.jpg

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[jahlinux]

The stem is made from two pieces of Mahogany laminated together.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7167/6638902799_e8a9863df2.jpg

[jahlinux]

I did end up taking 3/4" off the sides of each station mold instead of notching for the chine and ribbands. It helped with alignment prior to screwing them into the molds. I also attached strips of wood behind the ribband locations to allow for clamping them to the mold prior to screwing.

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[jahlinux]

Scarfed the first two sheets of plywood on December 14, 2011. I'm using 1/2" okoume for the sides and 3/4" meranti for the bottom and transom.

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[jahlinux]

Laminated the transom and officially completed the jig on December 19, 2011.

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[jahlinux]

My first big problem came when I was installing the chines. They are 2" x 3/4" mahogany. I had a hard time twisting the chine so it met up correctly with the stem. It's not a professional job by any stretch, but then again I have very little experience with boat building so I knew I would be running into these types of problems. Looking back on it I think I should have tried rapping the wood in rags and pouring boiling water on the rags and let it soak for a while. I think I spent the better part of two days messing with the chines.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6638821667_824f2c1ce9.jpg

I did have to shave a little wood off the tops of the chines and the plywood will not lay completely against the chine, but a little thickened epoxy should be able to fill any voids. Hopefully this does not cause any problems.


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[jahlinux]

Shaped the stem and mounted the transom on December 28, 2011. I did end up breaking a rib band by hitting it with a plane. The ribbands are only 3/4" pine, but I was able to glue it up with some epoxy and it should be fine.

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[jahlinux]

January 4, 2012, Shaped one side of the transom and started making patterns for the side planks. This is were I'll start needing some help. I first tried laying the 16' piece of 1/2" plywood up against the mold to see if I would be able to use it as Tom Hill describes in his book. No luck, it will not bend well enough around the bow section to make accurate markings. I tried using the 4x8 cardboard sheets that came with the plywood I ordered from Maine Coast Lumber. (I would highly recommend them. They are out of York Maine.) This seems to work well. If anyone has suggestions I would really appreciate hearing from you.

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[wavewalker]

Thank you for the detailed building pics. I've had the plans for a few months, but between this thread and the other Long Point thread, has gotten me to want to get started; if the weather would cooperate. I grew up on Cape Cod (Buttermilk Bay actually) but haven't been back since 1964, I used to love hanging around with my dad who worked at a marina there a few years after he retired from the Air Force, seeing the old boats, and sometimes going out with him on test runs, out into the Cape Cod Ship Canal.
WW

[Hunky Dory]

Buttermilk bay in the early sixtys I remember the square bow quohog skiffs at the boat ramp by rt.6

[wavewalker]

Me too, my dad worked at the what was called Buttermilk Bay Marina next to the overpass on rt6; the waterway to get out of Buttermilk Bay to the ship canal; late 50's early 60's... Sometimes had to take taller boats in at low tide.

[jahlinux]

I have the first planks cut out and ready to attach. The 1/2” plywood does not like to bend around the bow and meet up flush with the stem. I would appreciate any suggestions on the best way to get the plywood attached to the stem. I’m assuming when I start screwing the plywood to the stem it should bend flush.

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[potomac]

Any luck with the planks? I am very much enamored of this design and am following your build with great interest. Good luck.

[jahlinux]

After dry fitting the planks over and over again I finally just decided to go for it and install them. I did everything by myself so it was not that easy. The hardest part was the bow. The first plank was not that bad. I used a wood clamp to pull the plywood flush with the stem then screwed it. I moved the clamp down some and put in another screw. This worked great. The secound plank was a real pain. I really needed some extra help, I was able to use one of the Irwin quick grip clamps to pull in the plywood to the stem with one hand and the other hand to drill and then screw the plywood to the stem. It was not a pretty process but it worked. Now I have to hang some plastic sheeting up and close off the rest of the basement and the furnace so I can trim the planks with a router. I plan on using a flush trim router bit and I'm sure its going to make a mess. Then comes beveling the planks and cutting the gains. I have never cut gains before so hopefully it goes well.

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[dirtsailor]

I would use a japanese pull saw to trim the planks, less mess, and it doesn't take long at all. Then you wont have to mess with tarping off the basement!

[jahlinux]

I trimmed the planks with a router, it really didn't make that big of a mess. The planks are beveled, next I'll work on the gains. I'm thinking the gains should be about 12" long for the 1/2 plywood. Is that the correct length?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7019/6757718761_c11a6a73b1_z.jpg

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[Breakaway]

Nice thread. Nice build. Yer gettin er done!

Kevin

[PaulT]

Looks pretty damn nice from where I'm sittin'! Very neat work.

Thanks for the thread
PaulT

[jahlinux]

Cut my first ever Gain. Not the best, but hopefully a little epoxy can fill in the mistakes. Didn't notice until after that the cut went higher then the 3/4" it should have. So when I glue the next plank on there will be some space that will need to be filled in. Oh well, maybe with a little experience I'll get better at it.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7017/6760779199_d478518bda_z.jpg

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[Hunky Dory]

If you clamp a piece of scap to the plank the width off the gain you can guide your saw and also the plane.

[wavewalker]

Any more progress? I was really getting into this as I have the plans, just waiting for the tax return to get the rest of the material.

[jahlinux]

I have the second plank on, the chine shaped and the first layer of the bottom ready to be cut out. I have scarfed an additional piece onto the 3rd plank. I’ll post more pictures tonight or tomorrow.

[jahlinux]

Here are some pictures of the 2nd planks going on.

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[jahlinux]

I have the chine shaped and getting ready to work on the bottom while the 2nd scarfs on the third planks are drying.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7197/6897899669_16683b6f47_z.jpg

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One thing I am trying to figure out is how to laminate the bottom. It consists of two layers of 3/4” plywood. I have #14 2 1/2” bronze screws to use for going through both layers of plywood into the chine. Not sure how to hold down the first layer while the epoxy dries. The only thing I can think of is using drywall screws. My only concern is putting so many screw holes in the chine. Does anyone think its anything to worry about? Any other ideas?

[andrewpatrol]

I'd be just gluing the joins and watch the drywall screws, give them a turn loose and tighten again after about ten hours otherwise the heads may snap off. I built a whole Hartley TS16 with about ten screws and none of them were in the chines. Glue first sheet of 3/4 on then second layer over that once first is dry. Use a toothed tiling spatula to lay a thickened epoxy mixture between sheets.

[Duane Brown]

looking real nice. I know alot of people are watching your build. It''s a great looking boat.

[davebrown]

With two layers of 3/4 I don't think you'll have much of the usual complaint of pounding in a chop. I think Hill has a good eye. I wonder why he is not on the forum? Maybe he gets enough of boatbuilding...Well, it's a good looking skiff, and I think they are much underrated.

[Figment]

I'd be just gluing the joins and watch the drywall screws, give them a turn loose and tighten again after about ten hours otherwise the heads may snap off. I built a whole Hartley TS16 with about ten screws and none of them were in the chines. Glue first sheet of 3/4 on then second layer over that once first is dry. Use a toothed tiling spatula to lay a thickened epoxy mixture between sheets.

If you have a powerful soldering iron (the kind that looks like a gun, not the kind that looks like a pen) you can put enough heat on the head of the screw to soften the epoxy at the threads before you try to back the screw out.
Also, use decking screws not drywall screws.

[jahlinux]

I have installed the 3rd plank, cut out the first layer of the bottom and picked up the wood for the rails and seat risers. Up next I will glue down the first layer of the bottom.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7046/6814087370_a4f854957f_z.jpg

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[jahlinux]

I pulled a rookie maneuver on the last screw in the side of the boat and missed the transom! Should have measured and marked the plank so I screwed into the transom correctly. This project keeps reminding me its a big learning experience.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7202/6814087780_f9338d4ede_z.jpg

[jahlinux]

Anyone have some good ideas on how I’m going to trim 1 1/2” of plywood flush with the sides of the boat without damaging the side planks?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7044/6960199627_4754f3d5b0_z.jpg

[Philip Maynard]

Rough it with a power planer and then carefully with a jack plane, running the plane body nose up and also set the blade deeper on the top edge.

[jahlinux]

I have made a little progress. The first layer of the bottom has been glued on. I ended up rough cutting it with a pull saw and then hand planed it flush with the sides. I’m ready to cut and glue up the second layer. My goal is to have the boat off the jig by the end of April.


I know you are supposed to wet out both sides of wood prior to epoxying them together. Anyone have any thoughts about only applying epoxy to the bottom of the boat then putting the 2nd plywood layer on dry and screwing it down? Or should I just wet out both sides? I’m thinking it may be easier to handle dry.

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[Figment]

I know you are supposed to wet out both sides of wood prior to epoxying them together. Anyone have any thoughts about only applying epoxy to the bottom of the boat then putting the 2nd plywood layer on dry and screwing it down?


I hear ya. But don't do it. A glue-starved joint is no joint at all.

[wavewalker]

Almost a month since last update, wondering how progress is going?

[PaulT]

I'm late catching this thread, but the boat sure looks nice..Great project!

PaulT

[jahlinux]

I have not made as much progress as I had wished. Getting the second layer of plywood on the bottom slowed me down. I could not do it alone, but it’s done! I did glue both sides of the plywood, there is a lot of epoxy between the two layers. It should be a very solid bottom. I have the second layer trimmed up flush with the sides, and I’m now working on getting the outer stem shaped and mounted. After that I’ll mount the rails, fill in all the screw holes, then put two layers of fiberglass cloth on the bottom. Give it one coat of paint and then for the most exciting part of the project. See if the boat will come off the jig. I had hoped to have it off the jig by the end of April. I think the end of May beginning of June is realistic. Looking forward to the WoodenBoat Show at the end of June.

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[jahlinux]

A few more pictures:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7121089573_7aa65ec4ee_z.jpg

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[potomac]

Looking good. Thank you so much for sharing these photos. I know it's more work, but your build thread is part of building a database of boatbuilding that is invaluable to future and present generations of builders. -Aaron

[jahlinux]

Hopefully the pictures are helpful to others. I’m really enjoying building this boat. I can’t wait to get it out on the water. I was able to meet Tom Hill and see his boat. His boat is beautiful! Hopefully mine will do this design justice.

[potomac]

Did you find the plans incredibly sparse? My plans for the Champlain were two sheets and had neither offsets nor a construction profile. Additionally, certain aspects of the build would not have been completable (at least for me) without the video, which is not a part of the plans. The placement of the stem is one such example. He mentions it in the video but gives no placement point in the plans (a construction profile would probably solve this). Also, the plans aren't really useful unless you build in exactly his manner, because the molds are undersized by the depth of the battens. I did find the video, however, incredibly valuable and informative. I recently got Steve Redmond's Whisp plans, which is a much simpler boat and the construction of which should also be simpler, and found those plans incredibly detailed. A few minutes with them and I thought, I could build this boat.

[jahlinux]

When combined with his book and the video I'm very happy with the Long Point plans. The plans are two sheets, but so far everything I've needed has been on the plans. I did have to email Tom and get his recommendation on screw sizes but that's about it. I have decided to use all philippine mahogany instead of pine. I also decided cut the molds back the width of the battens, the plans call for notching the molds, I found it easier to align them that way. Overall I think his plans are very good.

[jahlinux]

The outer stem is shaped and mounted. I recommend using a random orbital sander and not a disc sander. The orbital sander took the wood off plenty fast and produced a nice finish. I had to raise the curve on the stem because I took too much off with the disc sander.

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[jahlinux]

I need some suggestions on fitting the rails to the boat. The plans call for using pine, but I’m trying to use Philippine Mahogany. The rails measure 2” x 1-1/16. I didn’t anticipate having such a hard time bending them along the sheer. I tried dry fitting one and I needed to use a lot of clamps and tremendous pressure to get the mahogany to bend and meet flush with the sheerplank. Screws are only used at the stem and stern. I’m worried that epoxy and the lack of screws will not be enough to properly hold the wood.


Should I forget trying to use Mahogany? Go with pine? Laminate them? Use another type of wood?


Just when I thought I was getting close to getting this boat off the jig, the joys of learning how to build a boat.

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[willin woodworks]

you need some beefier clamps. Those small quick-grips aren't really strong enough for what you're trying to do.

Stick with the mahogany.

[jahlinux]

I have bigger C-Clamps I can use. I'm just concerned about the amount of force needed to bend the wood. I'm thinking of cutting each board in two and laminating them. I'll lose the thickness of the table saw blade, but I think it will still provide enough strength. Any thoughts?

[Figment]

I don't think the bend is so severe as to require kerfing or laminating. I'd try steaming first.

[jahlinux]

The picture is deceiving. I cannot bend the wood by hand, the jig flexes, and it just feels like something is on the verge of breaking. I have no experience with steaming, but feel I could be successful at laminating. Has anyone else laminated rails?

[Ekko 4]

Start clamping at the bow and work aft, this will be much easier. Never saw the need to steam timber of this size.

[holzbt]

I steamed the rails on my boat. I was using some old dry mahogany that I had and it was too stiff to take the bend without steam. Went on like a wet noodle with a little steam.

[jahlinux]

Glad to hear I'm not crazy. I did not expect to have any issues bending the rails. I'm not set up at all to steam. How long did you have to let the wood dry before epoxying it to the sheerplank? What do you think about laminating rails?

[Popeye53]

I am just starting my LP build. I have the jig built in a big tent enclosure. I built a steam box for the rails and chines. My brother is a sheet metal tradesman and made me a big steam kettle which is plumbed in to one end. I love this thread. I look at it often. Thank you so much for taking the time to take such valuable pictures. How is the build coming? Will you glass the bottom? Love to see how you are getting along. Must be off the jig by now..

Tim
Canada, West Coast

[Dan St Gean]

Glad to hear I'm not crazy. I did not expect to have any issues bending the rails. I'm not set up at all to steam. How long did you have to let the wood dry before epoxying it to the sheerplank? What do you think about laminating rails?

You can build something for steam or just use boiling water and old towels to get it more limber.

[Popeye53]

Did you do that scarf with a block plane?

[andrewpatrol]

Yep wrap it in towels ( on the most curved part ) and pour heaps of boiling water on it. Obviously do it off the boat outside and leave it for a while to cook then more water, than quickly put it on the boat, starting at the stem so you got some leverage to bend it. Failing that I saw somewhere that someone made up a steamer with PVC plumbing pipe and a kettle with a hose. You'd only need to steam the most curvaecous bit. Leave it on the hull for a few days to dry and form to its new shape.

[potomac]

Introducing a curve to long, thin pieces of wood can be achieved by simply wetting them, laying the boards across two sawhorses, and hanging a weighted bucket from the boards between the sawhorses. It will take longer and I doubt you'd achieve the sort of bends necessary for making ribs, but that's not what you are talking about here. Also, when asked about the boat and her construction, you won't be able to say, "At which time I steam bent the longitudinal members...blah, blah, blah." But you won't be burnt either. Maybe we could make up some cool-sounding name for this process- the transverse supported, hydro-saturated, weight-induced, gravitational curvature system of bending. Or some such.

[jahlinux]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Last weekend I decided to laminate the rails, so I have cut them in half and I will be glueing them on this weekend. They easily bend now and I’ll still have a solid board to ensure the sheer line is properly shaped.

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[jahlinux]

I am just starting my LP build. I have the jig built in a big tent enclosure. I built a steam box for the rails and chines. My brother is a sheet metal tradesman and made me a big steam kettle which is plumbed in to one end. I love this thread. I look at it often. Thank you so much for taking the time to take such valuable pictures. How is the build coming? Will you glass the bottom? Love to see how you are getting along. Must be off the jig by now..

Tim,
Glad to hear from someone else building a Long Point. You are going to love this boat. I was lucky enough to see Tom Hill's boat and after that any doubts I had were erased. Unfortunately the boat is still on the jig. The rails slowed me down a little, but it really has been a change in my work schedule and other non-boat related activities slowing me down. I hope to have the boat off the jig by the middle of June when I’m taking some time off. At that point I’ll be able to concentrate on the frames and seats. I will be fiberglassing the bottom, 2 layers of 6 oz cloth. Have you started a thread yet for your boat? I look forward to seeing your boat being built. Feel free to send me a message with your email and I’d be glad to try and help with any questions you may have or send additional pictures if you need them. I’m still an amateur, so I’ll do my best, but the the guys on this forum are a ton of help.

John

[jahlinux]

Did you do that scarf with a block plane?

I used a power hand planer to do most of the cutting, then a belt sander, then a hand made sander using a sanding belt from a belt sander glued to a pine board. I had originally made it for carving half hull models, but it has come in real handy. I have used it on the transom, bow, and chines. It takes off a lot of wood, but more controlled then using a belt sander.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7242/7221281240_ef8d45fc94_z.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5343/7221280634_4422efee81_z.jpg

[Popeye53]

Hey John,
Thanks for the confidence booster. By the looks of things, if you are an amateur I think I must be a rank amateur. I would like to visit and speak with Tom in person myself, but Vermont is a little far away from British Columbia unfortunately. I loved the look of this boat the first time I saw it - very salty.

[potomac]

Tom is very quick to respond by email. I think the combination of plans, his book, and video make his boats very do-able. In fact, (and this may be a factor in the boat I am building and not the Long Point), there were times I couldn't see the exact location of a part in the plans, or couldn't understand how I would arrive at a spacing (the ribbands come to mind), and the video addressed the subject directly. I'm almost thinking of his plans as part of a system along with the video and book, kind of like the separate components (book, lecture, lab) in a college course, in this case, a course on boatbuilding.

[Popeye53]

Hey John - I was wondering if the boat can get glued to the jig by mistake. Do you use a releasing agent? wax? plastic?

[jahlinux]

I was worried about the same thing. I waxed the ribbands like Tom suggested. I also used packing tape to cover parts of the jig that looked like it would be easy for epoxy to get on. Any area near the chine, stem, and transom are good locations for tape, I even taped the ends of the ribbands at the stem and stern. But, the real test will be when I go to lift the boat off the jig, then I'll be able to tell you if I was successful with my efforts. I always tried to get under the boat and clean up any epoxy from the joints, but there are a few spots I just could not get. Hopefully only a few more weeks and I'll let you know.

[jahlinux]

The rails are now 3/4 of the way done. The starboard side rail is completed. Laminating them worked out well. I have started filling the screw holes with epoxy and micro balloons. What a mess! I have never worked with this stuff before. Some areas are going to take three coats. I did learn the hard way that you what to work with small patches, the stuff starts harding up and becomes difficult to spread. I spent close to three hours sanding and now I’m waiting for the second coat to dry.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8025/7272917732_af41dbc915_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7083/7272908786_666c60bb2c_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8024/7272908388_7afab781b7_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/7272906198_6c774be598_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8017/7272906680_46be5742a9_z.jpg

[Popeye53]

When you mix your epoxy and filler do you use a board or mix in the pot?

[jahlinux]

When you mix your epoxy and filler do you use a board or mix in the pot?

Mix it in a pot. I just mixed too much. I mixed up a batch using 10 pumps and then added the micro balloons. I switched to only mixing up 3 pumps each of resin and hardener and everything was fine after that

[jahlinux]

Today I rounded the chines and wetted out the two layers of 6oz fiberglass cloth. I put both layers on dry and then put on the first coat of epoxy. You'll need two people, one to spread and one to mix. After the first layer is on and the excess is trimmed off, the remaining coats are really easy. The bow did not come out that good, lots of sanding will be needed. I can finally see this boat getting off the jig.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7102/7322726644_5bda835a9f_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7102/7322729966_dea910031f_z.jpg

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http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8168/7322730872_85777ac99b_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7211/7322727496_685ff065c3_z.jpg

[potomac]

Really Cool. You are getting there. Congratulations. She's looking beautiful.

[Popeye53]

Wow! Really nice job John. What did you use to trim the excess cloth so cleanly?

[jahlinux]

Just used a utility knife with a new blade. I waiting until the epoxy had set long enough so not to pull at the fiberglass when I tried cutting through it. I think it was about 60 to 90 minutes after applying the epoxy.

[Popeye53]

Awesome. You say you laid both layers of cloth in one go?

[jahlinux]

Yes, I put both on dry and then started spreading the epoxy. It takes a lot of epoxy, I'm waiting to put on the third coat of epoxy now. About another hour and it should be ready.

[Popeye53]

When you attached the rails, did you just glue them or screw to the ply? Hard to screw on without the frames in I was thinking

[jahlinux]

I glued the rails on. I put a screw into the stem and stern. After I get the Breast Hook and Quarter Knees installed I'll add more screws. Today I got the fiberglass all sanded, and the edges all faired. I glued on the second layer of the port rail. Tomorrow I will sand the fiberglass edges and hopefully Tuesday put the final coat of epoxy on the bottom. I'm hoping it will only need one more coat. So far I have three on, some of the fabric got exposed from sanding, so I may need two more coats. Using a paint scraper really helps trimming down the edges of the fiberglass on the sides. I started the morning after applying the epoxy, so it was still not real hard.

Anybody have any suggestions on how long I should let the epoxy on the bottom dry before taking the boat off the jig and flipping it over? I'm thinking 4-5 days should be enough.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7102/7331873390_ef7303ba98_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/7331875270_7e25a14e56_z.jpg

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http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7331871714_ba0e7d9659_z.jpg

[Popeye53]

Can't wait for the next installment!

[Figment]

Anybody have any suggestions on how long I should let the epoxy on the bottom dry before taking the boat off the jig and flipping it over? I'm thinking 4-5 days should be enough.




You're good to go. If it's cured enough to sand, it's cured enough to move.

[Popeye53]

Hey John,

what ratio did you use to scarf your plywood?

[jahlinux]

I used a 8:1 ratio. I only scarfed the sides. I did not scarf the 3/4" plywood used for the bottom.

[Popeye53]

how did you avoid bottom layer overlap? 2 x 8 = 16 so not much room for offset.. three pieces?

[jahlinux]

The bottom of the boat is much less then 16 feet. You have plenty of overlap so scarfing is not necessary. I'll get you some specific measurements and the screws I used in a day or so.

[jahlinux]

how did you avoid bottom layer overlap? 2 x 8 = 16 so not much room for offset.. three pieces?

You will have 15" of overlap. I used #12 1 1/4" Screws. Just don't counter sink them very deep.

[jahlinux]

The boat is off the jig!!!!!!

I rolled it out of the basement, flipped it over with the jig still in the boat, pulled the jig out and then rolled the boat back into the basement. It's great to actually get into the boat.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7227/7353085450_84913dc92b_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7100/7167874487_018eda7e65_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7216/7167871833_778dfe429b_z.jpg

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http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8167/7353084912_90a38b4d80_z.jpg

[jahlinux]

A few more pictures. If anyone wants the jig its free for the taking.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7211/7167873549_402f583f2b_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7230/7353083954_95a9d1baf8_z.jpg

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http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7099/7353081672_c47cfce15d_z.jpg

[gstanfield]

Congrats on the flip, she's looking good!

[Oldad]

I like the last picture in the series, only thing missing from that dry sailing look is a purring four stroke sound... are you are humming??

Oldad been there done that

[potomac]

Wow. Incredible. She looks great. Congratulations.

[Popeye53]

Kaloo kalay oh frabtious day he chortled in his joy!

I like the roller Idea. I would have to roll mine out of the tent on dirt but it should be ok with decent size rollers I suppose.

[jahlinux]

1st day of working inside the boat. I trimmed up the inner stem, cut the excess plywood off the sides so its flush with the rails. Started sanding the interior, it's going to take a lot of work. Should have done a better job cleaning up the excess epoxy when I was installing the planking. Next I'll measure for the breast hook, and try and figure out the best way to trim up the transom. It needs a lot of trimming as you can see from the picture.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7091/7170752545_be516ac6f4_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7245/7170752807_5b697a91b6_z.jpg

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http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8015/7355967002_185949e138_z.jpg

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Great Job... I love this skiff.

[jahlinux]

Today I glued up the breast hook and finished sanding the interior. I'm a little concerned about the breast hook glue joints. I'm using 1 3/4" philippine mahogany. Hopefully the epoxy joint will be strong enough to adequately hold the bow cleat loads. Tomorrow I'll start working on the frames. I'm trying to figure out if the frames should stand perpendicular to the waterline, chine, or sheer. Anyone have any suggestions?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8015/7359882640_7dec445743_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7174656259_53381f0010_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7359881428_27d5a946a9_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8002/7359881814_91df3c285b_z.jpg

[Bluegill]

Why and how did you get all those clamps ????

[Popeye53]

Hey John looks great. I will start a thread for my build tommorow.

[Popeye53]

John - My thread is called "Another Long Point"

[Popeye53]

Maybe you should imbed some ready rod in epoxy in a route in the underside? You know, sort of like a drift..

[jahlinux]

Maybe you should imbed some ready rod in epoxy in a route in the underside? You know, sort of like a drift..

Thats a good idea, I was thinking of putting a piece of 1/2" plywood under the location where the bolts for the cleat will be. It wouldn't add much weight to the already heavy breast hook and should be enough reinforcement. I was also thinking of a stainless steal plate that spans the joint and also serves as a backing for the cleat bolts. I'm probably going way overboard, it just seems like I should have something more then just epoxy holding all that wood together. But then you think of all the plank joints and also the rails, thats just epoxy. Maybe after I get it out of the jig and shape it I'll think otherwise, .

[Jeff Myers 66]

jahlinux,
Your Long Point Skiff looks great! Your thread has been inspirational. I am just finishing the jig for my Long Point Skiff build.

By the way, regarding the frame placement: It has been my assumption and my intent to install the frames right on the station lines.

Great job!

[jahlinux]

It has been my assumption and my intent to install the frames right on the station lines.

The forward frames don't look right if they are lined with the station lines. Not sure if it's just me or what. Today I hope to start working on the frames and maybe after I get a few cut out it will all make sense.

Do you have a thread started for boat?

[Robert Meyer]

Thats a good idea, I was thinking of putting a piece of 1/2" plywood under the location where the bolts for the cleat will be. It wouldn't add much weight to the already heavy breast hook and should be enough reinforcement. I was also thinking of a stainless steal plate that spans the joint and also serves as a backing for the cleat bolts. I'm probably going way overboard, it just seems like I should have something more then just epoxy holding all that wood together. But then you think of all the plank joints and also the rails, thats just epoxy. Maybe after I get it out of the jig and shape it I'll think otherwise, .

I was thinking about this and added a spline to the breasthook I just build for my skiff project. I think the thickened epoxy will be enough allow a 6" Cleat to be mounted.
I am boring oversized holes filled with epoxy and re-bored for bolts with a good backing plate.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OnOB_mL35TE/T9YBj5hz6bI/AAAAAAAAAuM/pxGAmEvn9lk/s640/breasthook%2520fitting%2520small.jpg

[Jeff Myers 66]

I do not have a thread started, but I think I should. There hasn't been a whole lot of information out there until your thread. I created a Blog page when I first bought Tom's plans, but haven't had much progress to report.

Will you be at the Wooden Boat Show?

[jahlinux]

I'll be there Friday evening after work, Saturday morning and most of the day on Sunday.

[jahlinux]

Today was not a good day. I'm not having much luck with shaping the frames. I spent all day messing around with patterns trying to come up with a way to make the frames. If anyone knows of any good info on how to properly make them please let me know. I did rip the boards for the frames to the proper width. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to figure this out start attaching frames.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7244/7178677977_ed50b8dc58_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7229/7363904242_40cdc5fd39_z.jpg

[Popeye53]

Tom hill suggests using a small block of planking wood under the pencil to trace the outline of each step but I would maybe clamp a batten to your horizontal brace and spile those puppies.

[jahlinux]

I decided to mount the frames perpendicular to the sheer. I found an article written by Tom Hill in “Getting Started In Boats” Volume 14 (Supplements in WoodenBoat Magazines) It describes building the Babson Island 14. In it Tom describes installing the frames perpendicular to the sheer.


Here is a frame perpendicular to the sheer:


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7233/7181914249_5db4458309_z.jpg

Here is one perpendicular to the chine:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7238/7367141774_d4db0a3df9_z.jpg

[jahlinux]

I finally have been successful in cutting out frames. I don’t know why it took so long to figure it out, I’m just glad to start making progress again. I’ll describe my method, not sure it is the best but it’s working for me.


1. I cut the frames 3-1/8” wide. Plans call for 3”. Clamp the frame perpendicular to the rail:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7221/7367140994_64398323e0_z.jpg


2. Using a block of wood 7/8” square trace the sides onto the frame from the chine all the way to the rail. (The 7/8” was thick enough to allow tracing the planks all the way to the rails. It also makes the final frame 3” wide as called for in the plans.):

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7090/7367140140_41946d5eda_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7077/7181915517_38cac3c3cb_z.jpg


3. Use a piece of wood 1/2” thick to rest on top of the chine and planks to mark the limber holes:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7094/7367142006_52ba18a9bb_z.jpg


4. Draw a line marking the height and angle of the rail:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8144/7367141516_d72c75cc18_z.jpg


5. Mark the rounded shape for the bottom of the rail:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7219/7367139424_df6c71f61e_z.jpg


Next post will finish up. Your limited to 6 pictures per post.

[jahlinux]

6. At the top of the rail measure 1-3/8” along the line representing the top of the rail:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8150/7181915765_d0497a6ebe_z.jpg


7. Draw a straight line between the 1-3/8” mark and the edge of the circle drawn on the bottom of the frame:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7081/7181916321_28228fee6b_z.jpg


I use a circular saw to cut the straight line representing the outer edge of the frame, and a bandsaw for everything else. I’m sure there is a better way to do this but after a day and a half this is what I came up with.


A completed one rounded at the top and bottom:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8163/7181917427_96f0564516_z.jpg

[Popeye53]

Wow! very nice. Thank you for all that detail.

[Figment]

I'm sure this would all become clear in future posts, but for the moment I'm befuddled so I'll ask...

Why is the bottom of the frame rounded inward with no limber hole? This looks to be a bitch to paint and likely to collect debris.
Or does the frame stop just shy of the bottom and it's just the angle of the photo makes it hard to see?

Is there no frame across the bottom of the boat (like in a dory)? Just up the topsides to reinforce those strakes? That's a nice feature.

I'll second popeye's thanks for the detailed posting, top-notch!

[potomac]

I believe the bottom is a double thickness of ply for a total of 1 1/2'' thick with no frames necessary across the bottom. Tom designed it this way for ease of use and cleaning.

[jahlinux]

There are no frames across the bottom of the boat. The bottom is made from two 3/4" layers of plywood. The frames stop just shy of the bottom. I think the rounded frame bottom should help reduce the amount of debris that collects not make it worse. To be honest with you I haven't given the frame design much thought, I'm just following the plans.

[jahlinux]

Looking for opinions on the best way to attach the frames.

The plans show screwing the frames to the chine and the rail from inside with only one screw coming in from the outside into the frame down close to the chine. Because I have laminated the rail I'm thinking it would be better to screw through the rail into the top of the frame. Also I was thinking of adding a screw towards the bottom of the top two planks from the outside into the frame.

Any thoughts?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8163/7181917427_96f0564516_z.jpg

[Figment]

You mean screwed and glued? Seems a rather substantial piece to only secure with two screws.
If epoxied in place, I wouldn't overthink the screws.

[jahlinux]

You mean screwed and glued? Seems a rather substantial piece to only secure with two screws.
If epoxied in place, I wouldn't overthink the screws.

Yes, the frames will be epoxied in place as well.

[Popeye53]

I think I agree with you. Screw through the rail and plug if the rail is to be finished bright.

[jahlinux]

All the frames are rough cut. The two forward frames will require some trimming to fit in properly.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/7187802697_48512e8910_z.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5339/7187802975_09c344e70d_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7073/7187803333_e3b227ef9b_z.jpg

[Popeye53]

Yes!
I am hungry to get my planks on after seeing this. Finished the chines and transom today.

[jahlinux]

I had a tough time getting the chines to bend flush with the jig and stem. How did you make out? Hope you post some pictures on your thread.

[Popeye53]

I bent the chines on quite quickly; I think mainly because the cedar is more limber than the mahogany. The final twist before the sheer I could do nothing about really so decided to shave it a little with the slick. I will post the pics.. I don't think that I am being as meticulous as you were with some things. I'm afraid I seem to rush things a little as a rule!

[jahlinux]

Look forward to seeing the pictures.

[jahlinux]

I spent the day trimming up all the frames. It took a lot longer then I thought it would.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5234/7383179262_af85280667_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8158/7383179986_f605f4a535_z.jpg

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http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8165/7383181136_5c8496fedf_z.jpg

[Philip Maynard]

Just wondering about an alternate approach - beveling the tops of the chines (and inside top edges of the laps as well) so they did not catch water - then you would not need limber "holes" in the frames? Just seems easier to maintain.

[Bill Wiegmann]

Beautiful work. I have been following this thread closely as I hope to start building my own Long Point starting in the Fall.

To follow up on Philip's question, I am wondering why the plans call for these limber holes at all. Why encourage water to run down along the tops of the laps and chine? If you put a rounded fillet of epoxy in there, wouldn't the water run neatly straight to the floor?

[jahlinux]

Looking back on the chine, it may have been worth beveling the tops so they are at least level with the bottom. I don't think it would be a good idea to take much off the laps. I like the idea of having as much wood as possible at the lap joints.

[Popeye53]

Man alive , you are good! What is that plank on the stick thing for? are your frames laminated from 1 inch? (pic 3 of port 5).

[Popeye53]

Did you round over the top 2/3 with a router? Nice effect..

[Popeye53]

Also, are the frames bevelled?

[jahlinux]

The plank on the stick was used to measure the height for the seat riser. The frames are made from 1-1/16 philippine mahogany, the line was from the router bit, they are not laminated. The true test will be when I attach the frames. Back to work tomorrow so progress will slow down.

[jahlinux]

I beveled all the edges except for the area where the seat riser will be attached. I used a 45 deg chamfer router bit.

[Popeye53]

Nice.

[jahlinux]

Nice. I would love to see a picture of the jig or set-up you used to shape the frames with the straight bit on an angle like that. Cant quite figure it out. Does your router have a tilting base?

I'm sorry, I used a chamfer bit. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that. I'll edit the post.

[Popeye53]

Hi John,
I was wondering if you had any problems having long enough planking stock for your first plank. I have checked with my pattern and am about 3 inches shy. I guess I will have to scarf on another piece. I was also wondering how you pattern the second and third planks. Did you just go off the bottom line of the upper plank and add the width?
Tim

[jahlinux]

The plywood I used was actually 8' 2-1/2" long. Not sure why, but it worked out well. I only needed one scarf for the bottom and middle plank. I did have to scarf an additional piece to the third plank. I made one pattern for the bottom and another for the middle plank. I did not have to make another pattern for the third plank, the middle one worked by simply adding a couple of inches to each end. You can not just add 5-3/4" to make the middle pattern. I used ribbands and after making the pattern it was a different shape then the bottom plank. I don't think you are using ribbands so I'm not sure if it will be different for you. Make sure you add the thickness of the bottom plank under your middle plank pattern stock before tracing it out.

[Popeye53]

Longer plywood? Thats a new one. Maybe okume is bigger for some reason. I could not get any from anywhere close. Thanks for the plank pattern info.

[gstanfield]

Some of the more exotic plywoods come in metric sizes which make them a little larger than the stadard 48"x96", I'm sure that's the case here

[Spudley51]

Hi John,

How did you did you get your lines for the sheer ribband, I see that the other ribbands are 7" and 12" off of it. Did you just go off of the Stem and Stern?

Thanks
Mike

[jahlinux]

Hi John,

How did you did you get your lines for the sheer ribband, I see that the other ribbands are 7" and 12" off of it. Did you just go off of the Stem and Stern?

Thanks
Mike


Mike,
Sent you an email, didn't see your post here. Hopefully I explained it well enough for you to understand. Let me know if you still have questions.

[Jeff Myers 66]

John,
Your Long Point looks great! Did you have any issue with maintaining the shear line after trimming the frames for the ribband thickness rather than notching the frames?

Jeff

[jahlinux]

John,
Your Long Point looks great! Did you have any issue with maintaining the shear line after trimming the frames for the ribband thickness rather than notching the frames?

Jeff

Jeff,
I didn't have any issues with trimming the frames back. I don't feel notching is necessary. I thought not having to notch the frames helped in aligning the ribbands and gave the epoxy less jig to glue to.

[jahlinux]

It's been a crazy week at work. I do have 8 frames glued and screwed on. Only six to go! Stopped off at the WoodenBoat Show on the way home from work!! Can't wait to get over there tomorrow. I'll post some pictures of the installed frames tomorrow.

Mike, if you're wondering, I got your email and will get back to you in the morning.

[jahlinux]

Spent most of the weekend at the WoodenBoat Show. I'm already starting to think about my next boat. I think I've settled on the Tom Cat a catboat designed by William Garden. Now its time to get back focused on the Long Point. The first four frames I glued up the wood flour epoxy mixture was a little to thick and I didn't put enough on the frames. So I didn't get a lot of extra epoxy squeezed out from behind the frame. So there is a couple of spots that will need to be filled in. I learned my lesson and used a little thinner mixture and a lot of extra epoxy on the next set of frames glued up.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8009/7473426168_b7876f1072_z.jpg

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[Popeye53]

Hey John, I was wondering why you chose to attach the strips of osb to the bottom when doing the glue up? Are they to help you to align the sheet?

Tim

[jahlinux]

I used the strips to make sure the screws didn't go all the way through the bottom. Also it keeps the head of the screw from digging a hole into the plywood.

[jahlinux]

Today I finally glued the rest of the frames on and started shaping the stem head. I am not that happy with the way the forward set of frames came out. I should have spent a little more time shaping them. Oh well, I just used a lot of thickened epoxy to fill any gaps. Next up will be installing the seat risers. Hopefully the mahogany I have will bend in ok. I may end up having to try pre-bending them if they are too stiff. I'm not sure about cutting the angle on the top for the seats to rest on. It doesn't seem like it would be the same the entire length bow to stern. If it's not I'm not sure how it could be cut anyway. If anyone has any ideas I'd like to hear from you.

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[potomac]

That is one proud stem!

[Jeff Myers 66]

John,
She's looking great! Your attention to detail is amazing. The top of the stem shaping looks really good,. that is one detail im concerned about on my boat but if i follow your lead i should be ok.

What size fasteners did you use?

Jeff

[Popeye53]

Do you find it still needs that horizontal brace John?

[jahlinux]

Do you find it still needs that horizontal brace John?

The boat is pretty stiff without it, I'm just using it to make sure the correct beam is maintained until I get the seats installed. Without the brace the sides flex in maybe 1/4" at the most.

[jahlinux]

Today was not what I would call a great boat building day. I did manage to get the breast hook and the quarter knees shaped. It took all day. I'm not really happy with how they came out, but with extra epoxy and some good size screws they should end up being fine. I tried cutting the curve on the back side of the breast hook. My bench top bandsaw is not big enough to accurately cut the 1-3/4" mahogany. So I need to find someone with a full size bandsaw to finish cutting them.

[jahlinux]

I was able to borrow a bandsaw and got the breast hook and quarter knees cut out. The breast hook needed a little repair from the failed attempt at using the small bandsaw. I also cut out the seat risers and pressed them along the chine to see if sitting like that for the week will pre-bend them. I'm going to try installing them this weekend.

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[Bluegill]

The Long Point Skiff should use bottom RUNNERS rather than 2 layers of 3/4" plywood. The layers of plywood might give you problems. Also 2 layer of 3/4" plywood must be very heavy.

[potomac]

Thomas Hill designed the Long Point Skiff to be 1 1/2'' thick so she wouldn't oil-can in a chop as well as doing away with bottom framing for easy cleaning and upkeep.

[jahlinux]

I have a decision to make concerning the seat riser. The 1" thick Mahogany will not bend easy enough without either laminating it or steaming. I have never steamed wood and have none of the equipment to do it. I successfully laminated the rails. Laminating the seat risers would not be as easy as the rails, but I think it would be possible. What is the consensus, laminate the risers, invest into to the equipment to steam, or scrap the mahogany and go with something else?

[Popeye53]

Hi John. I Have yet to use my steam set-up but will probably be using it for the rails and seat riser. I am using a piece of sewer pipe for the box and an old turkey fryer burner. You can use a stock pot and a big funnel for a steam pot. You probably already know all this. Something satisfying about steaming wood. I helped build a couple of boats when I was on my boat in my 20's. Laminating is a very valid option as you know. I have laminated deck beams in a curved jig with glue and had great results. Seems a bit silly to set up a steam box for steaming two pieces of wood! As you also know Epoxy is stronger than the wood and screws fine anyway. I heard you say in a previous post you are planning on building a catboat; so maybe now is a good time to set it up. Otherwise, If you are not finishing bright I would probably laminate. This is my old boat I rebuilt and lived on for ten years - The "M.V. Hemlock" Built in 1925, had a Gardner 4LW. I still miss her. I recently found these old pictures. Thought you might like to see her.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/149474_309671452435097_292728205_n.jpg https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/36576_309671469101762_1616708074_n.jpg https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/546058_310062509062658_1093997112_n.jpg

[Robert Meyer]

Popeye53's photos of his old ship's wheel reminded that many Long Point Skiffs have used this type wheel and look good with them. I believe Tom's first build had one. Hamilton Marine carries them - However I've noticed that they seem no longer to offer them in bronze.
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/steering-wheel-16-3-4-tapered-bore-stainless-739009-/4,44954.html
Keep up the good work on my favorite power skiff.

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/prodimg/HM-SWSS.JPG

[Popeye53]

Tks. for that link Robert. Nice wheel. - I am thinking very seriously about putting a little keel aft on my Long Point. I just cant help thinking she is going to move around too much with out it. I have slowed down to a halt right now waiting for more epoxy. I was ready to paint but now will wait for the epoxy and put on the skeg.
You can see my build at my thread "Another Long Point".

Tim

[jahlinux]

I've ordered the bronze 16" wheel from Hamilton Marine but it's on back order. I really don't want to use stainless steel. Keeping my fingers crossed that the bronze wheel ships soon.

[jahlinux]

Tks. for that link Robert. Nice wheel. - I am thinking very seriously about putting a little keel aft on my Long Point. I just cant help thinking she is going to move around too much with out it. I have slowed down to a halt right now waiting for more epoxy. I was ready to paint but now will wait for the epoxy and put on the skeg.
You can see my build at my thread "Another Long Point".

Tim

Tim,

Why have you decided to put a skeg on your boat? Have you heard from other builders who wish they had? I'm pretty sure Tom does not have a skeg on his boat. But you are right, now is the time to install one if you are going to do it.

[jahlinux]

Nice pictures of you boat Tim. Must have been fun living on her for 10 years.

Still trying to decide what to do about the seat risers, I'm starting to lean towards laminating them, but still thinking it over.

[Popeye53]

Glad you liked the pics. Wasn't sure about putting them on your thread. - It was rough in the rainy winters sitting there watching the green fungus grow on the windows and cleaning all the soot from the diesel stove, But I had some great adventures. With regards to the skeg plan - everyone who have seen the plans here that know boats has agreed that this boat needs a skeg. I cant believe no-one else has mentioned it. With that big flat bottom it is bound to wander. Don't you think?

[jahlinux]

I have to look through some of my emails. I'm pretty sure I asked Tom Hill about putting a skeg on the boat and he said it's not needed. It be nice to hear from other builders if they think a skeg should be installed.

[Popeye53]

John, I am thinking of something like this..

http://writeonthewater.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Skiff-1024x682.jpg

[Jeff Myers 66]

John,
She is looking good.

Have you worked out the seat riser's yet? It has been my intent to use atlantic white cedar or cypress (rather than mahogany)for all of the parts Tom specified as pine. I wanted to keep the weight close to the pine with out sacrificing too much strength. I only used mahogany for the chines because I had it left over from my stem lumber. Though I do feel a little better getting the strength of the mahogany for the chines. Your earlier success with laminating could make that method a good candidate.


My build is on hold for a week or so until I get transom wood, then ready to plank. Meanwhile I have the luxury of learning all I can from John's and Tim's ongoing projects.

Jeff

[jahlinux]

This weekend I installed the breast hook and both quarter knees. I added a piece of 1/2” plywood under the breast hook to span the glue joints. The quarter knees liked to move around a lot with the epoxy on them. The breast hook is about 1/8” higher on the starboard side. Hopefully after shaping the crown in it you won’t be able to notice. I wish I had not finished off the aft upper edge of the breast hook. I forgot I needed to shape the crown. I also glued up the 1st layer of the seat risers. Laminating the second layer is going to be messy, but it should end up working out fine.

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[jahlinux]

It’s been a busy couple of weeks for me, not a lot of time for boatbuilding. I have managed to get the seat risers laminated, the breast hook all shaped, and the seats cut out. Next I have to cut the transom for the outboard and start filling holes and sanding. I need recommendations for paint. I’m afraid the paint will smell too much for me to finish the boat in the basement. So I guess I’ll need to get one of the temporary sheds for painting.

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[Popeye53]

Really nice John. It is going to be a beautiful boat. I have trimmed my sheer and stem and will be ready to work on the frames soon.

[jahlinux]

I cut the sides of the center console out per the plans. The dash height will end up being 29" high. I'm 6'2" and it seems a little low. Does anyone have any recommendations for the height? I plan on using a traditional 16" bronze wheel (If I can fine one, Hamilton Marine is out of them).

Here is a picture of Tom Hill's:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7268/7760739246_0077710b62_z.jpg

[Popeye53]

Hi John,

I am 6' 2" as well and was wondering the same thing about wheel placement. How tall is Tom?

Tim

[jahlinux]

Tom is not as tall as us. I cut out new sides and increased the height so the dashboard will be 36" high. Just not sure if the console will look out of place with the increased height. I guess I'll just put it together and see how it looks and feels. I can always cut it shorter if needed.

[Popeye53]

Hey John,

Bought this on Ebay 17" 36 dollars. Search for Perko bronze boat steering wheel etc. they do show up.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8432/7771230368_1813ac00df_z.jpg

[Spudley51]

Do you have a preference for bottom paint, I'm not going to be leaving it in the water, trailer each time. I'm thinking Interlux?

[Spudley51]

Hey John,

Looks Great! question, are you going to spray, roll or brush on your paint for the hull and inside?

Thanks.....
Mike

[jahlinux]

I'm planning on using a roller and brush. In Wooden Boat issue 207 Tom Hill describes his process for painting. I haven't settled on a brand yet. I'll be deciding between Interlux or Pettit. I plan on leaving the boat in the water throughout the summer. I need to find out of I can use topside paints below the waterline under bottom paint.

I still haven't finished the center console or finished filling in screw holes. Work and family commitments have taken priority for the last few months. Once November comes around my schedule should allow much more time for boatbuilding.

[Figment]

Depends on the paint type. In general, the one-part paints don't last long underwater.

[Jeff Myers 66]

John,
I have also let life get in the way of boatbuilding lately. We both better get busy. I thought it would be cool to present our long Point Skiffs at the Mystic show next June.

[jahlinux]

Jeff,

I like the idea of presenting both the boats at the WoodenBoat Show next June. The Show is June 28 - 30th. Lets do it!

[Popeye53]

Hi John,

Whats new?

[jahlinux]

Hey Tim,

I'm still here! Finally getting done with the 72 hour work weeks for a while. The shop is all cleaned up and I'm ready to get back to working on the boat. I have placed a deposit on a slip for the spring, so it's time to get busy.

Are you working on anything new? How much time have you had to use your boat?

John

[Popeye53]

Great John,

It will be nice to see some new pictures. I have lots of snow here so am concentrating on inside jobs. Gillie is tucked away under cover till the spring.

nTim

[jahlinux]

Started working on the center console. I attached a couple of pictures of the console with a 36" high dashboard. It feels good because of my height, hopefully it doesn't ruin the look of the boat. It is 7" taller then the plans call for.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8084/8318788832_20095a4049_z.jpg

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[botebum]

Can you move forward past it fairly quickly to handle lines, etc.?
I'm looking on my phone so proportions might be messed up but it looks like a narrow walk through.

Doug

[Popeye53]

Hi John,

Hmm.. Got me think'n. I like the comfort of stand-up steering, especially at a comfortable height. It is a tad imposing to look at tho, especially from the side, looks ok from the stern I am thinking and very nice to run the boat from. It would be great if the boat was 4' longer and a 16" wider (as per botebum). I figure this is one of those things you just have to try first and see. If you don't like it, yank it out. I still haven't decided what I am going to do finally either, so am keen to see what happens.

God bless,

Tim

[Hunky Dory]

Just a thought but if you offset the whole console a couple inches to the right, then put a top on the angle you allready have, you could offset the helm a litte to the left and shorten the console. The wheel would be at the angle of the top and you would still be able to stand and walk through easily. Your rigging tube will prohibit walking on the starboard side of the console anyway. I can send you a pic of what I mean to you private as your thread is to nice to litter with a glass boat.

[Bill Wiegmann]

I am building a Long Point and haven't gotten to this stage yet, but was planning on making the center console narrower than the plans called for (maybe only as wide as the diameter of the steering wheel) in order to improve fore and aft access. (I am only 5'8", so I don't need to make the console any taller, which may help with the look of a narrower console.)

I think there is some risk that too large a console will affect the look of the boat. I assume that you have mocked up the steering wheel configuration and made the console as low as you can consistent with a good hold on the wheel for your height and length of arms.

[jahlinux]

I think there is some risk that too large a console will affect the look of the boat. I assume that you have mocked up the steering wheel configuration and made the console as low as you can consistent with a good hold on the wheel for your height and length of arms.

The more I look at the pictures I think I'm going to cut the console down to the height called for in the plans. One negative about the higher console is it's harder to see over while sitting down. I imagine a lot of the harbor and river cruising I'll be doing will be done sitting down. I haven't deviated from the plans yet and everything is turning out great, so why start now. I don't have the wheel yet it has been on backorder for months, but I should have it in a week or two.

[jahlinux]

I have finally glued up the center console. I did decide to add 2" to the height so the dashboard ends up being 31" high. I also plugged the holes in the stem. Next up I'll be filling screw holes and doing some massive sanding. Painting is going to have to wait until it warms up and I build a temporary shelter outside.

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[PaulT]

Just wanted to say your boat is really coming along nicely. Really nice workmanship.

PaulT

[Bill Wiegmann]

Great job! I think that console looks very well-proportioned and fits well with the lines of the boat.

[Jeff Myers 66]

She's really looking good, John. I am glad to see you're back to boatbuilding.

[jahlinux]

This is a view out my basement door!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8088/8469834090_e6439674e0_z.jpg

A lot of snow has to melt before I can start building the temporary shelter I'm going to use for painting the boat. Lets hope for an early spring. I finally got a 16" bronze wheel. Hamilton Marine was able to find an overseas manufacturer.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8385/8468739395_16d8777121_z.jpg

Today I spent some time sanding. I screwed up and sanded through the first layer of the plywood on one of the planks. Not sure if its worth trying to fix?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8523/8468744995_3ecbedb125_z.jpg

Getting closer to painting, finally!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8509/8468745247_cb446ab2ee_z.jpg

[Figment]

Nice wheel. Very nice.

That oversand is absolutely not worth trying to fix.

Why wouldn't you paint the boat in the basement?

[Hunky Dory]

Why wouldn't you paint the boat in the basement?[/QUOTE]

I'm just gonna guess it has something to do with paint fumes and the higher power we all have to answer to.

[Figment]

yeah, I thought it was probably something to do with that, but having erected a few "temporary shelters" I'd much much much much rather manage the fumes with a couple of big fans and some plastic sheeting.

I would've paid HUGE money to be able to do my painting inside an actual building.

[jahlinux]

I'm very concerned about fumes and the fact the furnace is in the same area as the boat. I just don't feel comfortable trying to use temporary ventilation. Someday I hope to have separate boat shed.

[jahlinux]

I got a quote from my local wood supplier for half round molding made from philippine mahogany for the rails. $295.00 plus tax for (9) 10 foot long pieces. I was pretty shocked at that price. So it gave me an excuse to buy a new router and a half round bit and I'm going to try and make the stuff myself. I already have the wood so I'm going to give it a try.

I need some suggestions for cutting out the outboard slot in the transom. It's made out of 1-1/2" thick meranti plywood. I'm wondering if using a flush trim router bit with a 2" cutting length would make an accurate cut? It would be easy to cut out a pattern from some 3/4" stock and clamp it to the outside of the transom and use that to guide the router. Just not sure if the bit would be able to make an accurate cut through that much plywood. I've only got one shot at getting this right.

[Figment]

If you're setting up a router pattern there's no need to cut the full thickness at once. Multiple passes with the router, set the bit a little deeper each pass...

[jahlinux]

Finished up sanding the boat. Attached the piece of trim to the rails. I tried making half-round and that didn't go so good. I ended up making 3/4" pieces using a 45 deg router bit. The half-round was too hard to make a consistent cut using a hand held router, needed a router table. Only thing left is to clean up the rails and cut out the outboard slot, then it's time to paint! The plan is to move the boat out of the basement Easter Weekend and start painting. I'll be ordering the outboard next week. Still struggling on which size to get either a 25hp or 30hp. Ive settled on an Evinrude E-Tec. I'm leaning towards the 25hp, Tom Hill recommends a 15hp, but my boat is a lot heaver then his.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8558254714_869c701b54_z.jpg

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[jahlinux]

If you're setting up a router pattern there's no need to cut the full thickness at once. Multiple passes with the router, set the bit a little deeper each pass...

I plan on doing as you suggested, I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Popeye53]

Hey John,

Molding looks nice. Glad to see you back at it. Hope you came to your senses and quit that job. Motor choice has caused me a lot of grief. Loved my little seagull - so classic, but not practical. I would'nt go too heavy, Tom warns against over-powering. She has a flat bottom so does'nt need much. I just bought the Honda 20 - plenty of oomph cheaper and very light on the transom. Haven't even tried it out yet too much rain. Will let you know more as soon as I do..

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8514/8558602530_d682cc058c_b.jpg

[Popeye53]

Hi again John,

I just wanted to revisit the motor choice issue. I really thought long and hard about this. Was torn between a prop and jet actually since the LP makes such a sweet little river boat, and we are right on the mighty Skeena here. I initially thought I needed lots of power. Almost bought a two year old merc 4 stroke 40 from a fish camp. Thought about the 25 and of course favoured the 30 because more power for the same weight right? The more I used my little seagull however, the more I came down on the side of less is more. I have had outboard runabouts before with big heavy engines I can't lift and that drag the ass of my boat down. I started thinking about nimble and light I guess. The honda 20 is lightest in class at just over a hundred lb. Tom Knows this design and you can bet he tried a few different engines. I have a sneaky suspicion that he knows a thing or two about boat trim and optimum performance levels too. I actually carried this engine by its handle from the trunk of the VW over to the boat with very little difficulty - loved that. I needed some help to hoist it onto the transom but it was easy with two. On the other hand.. You have a centre console in your boat and your weight will be farther forward so.. I might be tempted (not certain) to get a 30. I don't think your boat could be significantly different in weight than Toms btw. Have you discussed engines with him? You will be getting a remote of course - I went manual with tiller of course, no pesky battery here! A thought on that, I have been very happy to be able to row my boat and am happy with no console but I am keen to build another, stretch it out more to about 19 feet and go with the console and a 60/40 jet - great river boat. One more thought, I have noticed that the boat wanders a little and am very glad I added runners. On my next boat they will be bigger and longer. I am still thinking about mystic in the summer, not much cash left!

Tim

[jahlinux]

Hey Tim,

If you get your boat out on the water before Monday let me know what you think of the 20hp. The 25hp and 30hp Evinrude are the same weight, just different injectors. The 30hp cost about $400.00 more. I'm having a really tuff time deciding on an outboard. A boat was just finished by Mike in Florida and he is pretty happy with his 25hp but thinks a 30hp would be fine also. Rodger who was involved with building I think at least 3 Long Point Skiffs said they had 20's put on them. He recommends the 30hp. I just have to decide if I want to spend the extra money on the 30hp. I've got to get this boat finished, ordering the motor next week and the slip is paid for!

John

[jahlinux]

My goal is to have the boat finished prior to the WoodenBoat Show. I would like to display it at the show. Work may get in the way, somethings have change over the last couple of weeks, but I'm still planning on it.

[jahlinux]

Tim,

The Evinrude is about 177lbs, quite a bit heaver then yours.

[Popeye53]

The merc has a battery less injector set-up I am sure you know, made by tohatsu? Supposed to be pretty good..

[Jeff Myers 66]

Looking good, Gents! I am back to work on my Long Point as well.

[Popeye53]

Hey John, Let's have a gander at that new Etec you spilled for!

[jahlinux]

Hey John, Let's have a gander at that new Etec you spilled for!

The dealer just ordered it last week. I let him hold off a little while until he could order a couple of motors, let him save money on shipping costs. I don't need it yet so I figured might as well let him make a little more money.

[jahlinux]

Boat is outside!!

Cut the transom out for the outboard. I ended up using a 3/4" pattern router bit (2" Long), and made the pattern out of 1/2 plywood. The cutting was a little violent, but after I got the hang of it the cut came out fine. I just had to go very slow.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8539/8608726919_c1a45184ed_z.jpg

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Outside for Good, now the painting begins!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8519/8608727577_980f736d54_z.jpg

[Popeye53]

Looks like that router pattern worked out really well John.

[jahlinux]

So the painting process has started!! The first coat of the Pettit Protect Epoxy Barrier Coat is on. One thing I'm not very good at is painting so this should be a lot of fun. With the boat outside I have decided to seal the inside with CPES. I drove up to Bristol, RI to pick some up from Jamestown Distributors, they don't give that stuff away $195.00 for the 2 gal kit.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8627783477_843a355067_z.jpg

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[jahlinux]

Four coats of the barrier coat and three coats of the Easypoxy on the interior. Just about finished the center console. Hopefully I'll get the interior finished by the end of next week. I'm hoping 5 coats will be enough. Tom Hill recommends 6, but considering I first applied CPES I think 4 to 5 should be good.

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[Popeye53]

Very Sweet John. Wow 6 coats of paint huh.. Oops!

[Jeff Myers 66]

Wow! She's beautiful John!

Unfortunately, Work has put a real damper on my Long Point build, but I hope you get your beauty over to Mystic in June.

Well Done!

[Popeye53]

Did you spray or brush/roll John?

[jahlinux]

Did you spray or brush/roll John?

Brush and roller. The barrier coat is rough but it still needs to be sanded before the topside paint.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Beautiful color inside. Great job John.

[RevWhop]

Looks great I like the colors. How much epoxy did you use on this boat? I am soon to start mine and was going see about making sure im getting enough at one time. I hate reordering.

[jahlinux]

How much epoxy did you use on this boat?

I used almost three gallons.

[jahlinux]

Center console is finished! That was the last piece of the boat to construct. So I can officially claim the construction is done, now everything needs to be painted. Planning on having the last coat of paint on the interior by Friday. Hamilton Marine came through again and shipped the cleats right out with no delay.

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[jahlinux]

Looking for suggestions on how to attach the seats to the seat risers without drilling holes through the top of the seat. If anyone has any ideas I would like to hear them.

Below is Tom Hill's boat. I can always screw them on from the top like Tom did but would prefer to attach them from underneath somehow.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8533/8699410736_7be3a0661d_z.jpg

[Popeye53]

Hi John, I also thought about seat attachment methods be fore using hook bolts. I had considered a block and another piece of wood underneath to create a sandwich under the riser.

[RevWhop]

I didn't think two gallons would be enough. thank you much. in the last pic rear seat cushion looks about foot thick. Nice!

[holzbt]

in the last pic rear seat cushion looks about foot thick. Nice!

Tom Hill is not a tall person and these boats have high bows.

[jahlinux]

Finished painting the Center Console and installed the seats. I ended up using stainless steal corner brackets and screws under the seats. They seem plenty strong, but I'll have to keep an eye on them as the hull flexes during use. I had cushions made for the seats similar to Tom Hill's. I really like the extra thick one for the back seat.

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[jahlinux]

Moved the boat onto the trailer! I painted the bottom with three coats of green "Unepoxy Plus" bottom paint. The sides will be painted after I determine the waterline. Started installing the electrical wiring, steering and throttle. Hopefully getting the outboard mounted next week.

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[RevWhop]

A neat electrical system makes troubleshooting a lot easier I like it. Looks like its not much more till it gets wet. That thick cushion is awesome. Im almost done with bowshed. So I can get started with mine. I think I'm gonna have to opt for big thick cushion as well.

[Popeye53]

Lovely John.

[simonmags]

just chiming in to say i've enjoyed reading through your thread. Any word on when the motor is likely to arrive?

[jahlinux]

just chiming in to say i've enjoyed reading through your thread. Any word on when the motor is likely to arrive?

As long as I can get the center console installed and the boat road ready, the motor should be mounted Tuesday night. I'm working the next four days so I'll have to try and finish up everything Monday afternoon and Tuesday.

[jahlinux]

Im almost done with bowshed. So I can get started with mine.

Start a thread and post lots of pictures. Looking forward to following your build. I'd love to see your bowshed. I thought about building one but the temp garage went up much faster, so thats what I ended up using. Someday I'll have a "proper" boat shed.

[Figment]

Fuses on both sides of the battery switch?

[jahlinux]

Fuses on both sides of the battery switch?

One is for the distribution panel and one is for the bilge pump. I'm wiring the bilge pump directly off the battery prior to the battery switch.

[Figment]

Ah, that makes sense.

[capefox]

She looks like a very sturdy boat.

[jahlinux]

Here is a picture of my wiring diagram. Hopefully it's according to code.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8276/8793478663_203568e663_z.jpg

[jahlinux]

She looks like a very sturdy boat.

Can't wait to get it out on the water. Everyone I know who has one is very happy with how it handles.

[Popeye53]

Hi John, Diagram and installation looks great. Couple of things I noticed. I f you are leaving it in the water for long fairly long periods and do not have a constavolt (shore power) You may wish to have two batts with an isolater to avoid dead bat syndrome from your bilge pump? Of course we get a lot of rain here. Also, the fuse panel may be somewhat susceptible to water damage where it lies? Just mention because you are making the perfect boat here and we are all keen to see it stay that way!

[jahlinux]

Tim,


I didn't want to add two batteries because of weight. I plan on having a cover made for the boat as soon as I get it done enough to be measured. I am also going to add a small solar panel to try and keep the battery charged while its sitting at the dock. I have a square piece of canvas to cover the opening on the center console if the weather gets real bad. Also plan on covering the center console separately while I wait for the boat cover.

[Popeye53]

Perfect.

[jim_cricket]

Beautiful job on your skiff! I looked at your patina thread, regarding your cleats. I used those same cleats on my crab skiff, Cricket, and it did not take long for them to turn a nice verdigris. I don't remember how long exactly. I've had people ask me what I did to get that beautiful color.

Anyway, I know you'll enjoy your boat. I've considered the Long Point myself, only I've got too much motor for it, a 30 hp Honda. I would consider lengthening and widening the design to take the extra weight and power. Your color scheme, your console, and your electrical work are first rate!

Cricket

[jahlinux]

I used those same cleats on my crab skiff, Cricket, and it did not take long for them to turn a nice verdigris. I don't remember how long exactly. I've had people ask me what I did to get that beautiful color.

Cricket,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad to hear about the cleats. I think I'll just install them as is. With so much else to do I'll let Mother Nature take care of some of the work.