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View Full Version : Legalize it? Ron Paul, Barney Frank introducing marijuana bill.



skipper68
06-23-2011, 02:29 PM
Cant belive this isn't on here yet.
Legalize it? Ron Paul, Barney Frank introducing marijuana bill to end federal ban on pot (http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/legalize_it_ron_paul_barney_frank_marijuana_bill.h tml)

By Geoff Herbert, syracuse.com (http://connect.syracuse.com/user/gherbert/index.html) | Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:54 AM http://media.syracuse.com/news/photo/9729398-small.jpg (http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/legalize_it_ron_paul_barney_frank_marijuana_bill.h tml)
The new legislation would allow states to choose whether or not to legalize marijuana. Already their are 123 comments, mostly pro. I freaked them out and said it was probably a(legal) false flag for the DEA to track them down! Had to get the paranoia goin.. ROTFLMAO!:D

Jim Mahan
06-23-2011, 02:43 PM
Get that camel's nose under the tent. It's about time.

elf
06-23-2011, 02:49 PM
Way overdue. Stupid as the attempt at prohibition. Amazing how punitive people like to be.

Legalize and tax. Empty the prisons and get the cops doing important work.

skipper68
06-23-2011, 03:07 PM
They have been pulling the posts, but it's REALLY a big subject here, so must be everywhere. I totally agree. One comment said not to. Said he spent $100.00 a week on it before he stopped. I said be glad his life wasn't ruined with a felony over his head for the rest of his life. The more I learn about the Hemp industry, the more I realize how it could really help our economy get away from big oil. That alone makes it worth it. BTW-I'm all for legalize, grow and tax. Never heard of anyone call in to work sick with a weed hangover.

Chris Coose
06-23-2011, 03:48 PM
Since the first day I got high off the weed (1961) , despite what I do for work and I've got a kid that has an authentic and troublesome dependence on the sh!t, I've never changed my opinion that weed should be legal.

skipper68
06-23-2011, 04:03 PM
Sadly, it would make too much sense to legalize it. The money in wages for law enforcement alone will be the biggest lobby against it. The DEA brags they spend $500,000.00 a minute on the war on drugs. I'm sure it's 1000% more though, adding courts, corrections officers, probation officers and lawyers. What could our country become again, with that money where it is needed.

ahp
06-23-2011, 04:14 PM
The cops will need to set up more speed traps.

PhaseLockedLoop
06-23-2011, 04:18 PM
For most users in Massachusetts, it doesn't mean much. Posession of personal amounts, in MA, is treated as nothing more than a ticketable offense.... not even a misdemeanor, I believe.

Of course, the traffickers with pounds of the stuff still have a problem.

Really? Where do those recreational users get their personal amounts? Currently, from trafficers who are still at risk, and who often have harder drugs available. The notion that weed leads to harder drugs has some merit as long as weed is illegal, since getting it requires dealing with illegal drug trafficing. Make it legal, and it'll no more lead to harder drugs than the other legal drug, alcohol.

George Ray
06-23-2011, 04:23 PM
http://www.hempusa.org/hmps/video.html

http://www.jackherer.com/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kZTLHEPrMc&hd=1

Chris Coose
06-23-2011, 04:23 PM
Being born leads to harder drugs.

Ted Hoppe
06-23-2011, 04:32 PM
it doesn't take a Warren Buffet to figure a few good long term stock holds... Nabisco a subsidiary of Illinois-based Kraft Foods, Yum Brands (Taco Bell and KFC), McDonalds and Phillip Morris might be good plays now.

ahp
06-23-2011, 07:08 PM
If marijuana becomes legal, then It does raise the interesting question of what happens to all of those DEA agents, police, wardens, jail guards. Up until now incarceration has been a grown business. Do they know how to do honest work?

Prohibition provides a disturbing parallel. First it created a criminal organization, then it took away their business base with repeal. The criminal organization then turned to worse activities.

Driver Mark
06-23-2011, 07:55 PM
[QUOTE]If marijuana becomes legal, then It does raise the interesting question of

what happens to all of those DEA agents, police, wardens, jail guards.
Up until
now incarceration has been a grown business. Do they know how
to do honest
work?



Thats pretty much why weed became illegal in the first place (in 1937) All the new federal agents needed to fight the" war on booze" needed something to do after the repeal of prohibition.

Ted Hoppe
06-23-2011, 08:00 PM
If marijuana becomes legal, then It does raise the interesting question of what happens to all of those DEA agents, police, wardens, jail guards. Up until now incarceration has been a grown business. Do they know how to do honest work?

Prohibition provides a disturbing parallel. First it created a criminal organization, then it took away their business base with repeal. The criminal organization then turned to worse activities.

Are you suggesting that politics are worse than bootlegging? Socially acceptable criminal behavior rarely escalates to levels that become aberrant to the community in general. In time, those who made large ill-profits are accepted into positions of high society and privilege. It is the American dream realized.

As Scarface's Tony Montana says... "In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women."

oznabrag
06-23-2011, 08:02 PM
[QUOTE]
Thats pretty much why weed became illegal in the first place (in 1937) All the new federal agents needed to fight the" war on booze" needed something to do after the repeal of prohibition.

One 'good' reason.

Another 'good' reason was that Eli Lilly, Du Pont and Standard Oil could not compete with the goodness that is Mother Hemp.

SamSam
06-23-2011, 08:04 PM
Being born leads to harder drugs.
All addicts started on breast milk or formula.

hanleyclifford
06-23-2011, 08:18 PM
I'm just wondering if Ron and Barney were smoking it together.

CWSmith
06-23-2011, 10:16 PM
It saddens me that someone who is wrong on so many things is the only candidate who is right on this. He's also right on gay marriage.

skipper68
06-23-2011, 11:35 PM
The cops will need to set up more speed traps.We already voted. We want the $70K starting pay NYS Troopers to make sure dogs have seats. Cant smokeANYTHING in the car with them. Law wont EVER let them put their head out the window, while the car is moving. It's for their own good. The government pays SOOO much to take a bug outa their eye-ya know!;)

skipper68
06-23-2011, 11:38 PM
It saddens me that someone who is wrong on so many things is the only candidate who is right on this. He's also right on gay marriage.Don't be sad. It truly wont pass. If it will, start voting for common sense.

HGreeley
06-23-2011, 11:49 PM
This is a very important thread. I will continue to monitor it for consensus.

skipper68
06-23-2011, 11:50 PM
Are you suggesting that politics are worse than bootlegging? Socially acceptable criminal behavior rarely escalates to levels that become aberrant to the community in general. In time, those who made large ill-profits are accepted into positions of high society and privilege. It is the American dream realized.

As Scarface's Tony Montana says... "In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women."NASCAR first. WOW, you get the award. The whole history summed up in a few paragraphs! They WERE the criminals-bootleggers, and MUCH worst.As TD freaks me out-I say 12 Monkeys. It was the Knowing that made the future history.

skipper68
06-24-2011, 12:02 AM
Really? Where do those recreational users get their personal amounts? Currently, from trafficers who are still at risk, and who often have harder drugs available. The notion that weed leads to harder drugs has some merit as long as weed is illegal, since getting it requires dealing with illegal drug trafficing. Make it legal, and it'll no more lead to harder drugs than the other legal drug, alcohol.True. We have bigger fish to fry. Hemp could bring this great nation back. 30,000 clean and nontoxic products it makes. The thought that it will give you a buzz is the LAST benefit to growing it AGAIN. Read about it. A buzz is a buzz. You wake up in the morning and go to work. What you DON'T want, is to have a felony on your head that morning, and forever..

johnw
06-24-2011, 12:23 AM
For most users in Massachusetts, it doesn't mean much. Posession of personal amounts, in MA, is treated as nothing more than a ticketable offense.... not even a misdemeanor, I believe.

Of course, the traffickers with pounds of the stuff still have a problem.

Take a look at what's happening in Mexico. Those violent drug gangs need stuff to be illegal, or honest businessmen would be more efficient, then how would they pay for the guns?

Sure, they'll find some other scam, but it's dead easy for them to make money this way. Why not make it harder?

skipper68
06-24-2011, 12:41 AM
"Take a look at what's happening in Mexico. Those violent drug gangs need stuff"{ But, we are spending billions to stop the "stuff" there! It is worst than a horror story there. Worst than the mafia here. Take away the profit.} What will they do? Go harder and harder drugs... Then go broke. Then get the girls to get a real job. Will they attack the USA, like they are preying on their own? Never. They will find another black market. Subsidized black market fuel@.69 is being sold all over the south west. No news is talking bout that. Tens of thousands of US dollars, in a traffic jam..

stevebla
06-24-2011, 01:12 AM
The Mexican drug gangs are also into methamphetamine, coke, opiates and people smuggling. Legalizing weed wont fix much and will add to the country's drug problems. Take a look at alcohol.

johnw
06-24-2011, 01:32 AM
The Mexican drug gangs are also into methamphetamine, coke, opiates and people smuggling. Legalizing weed wont fix much and will add to the country's drug problems. Take a look at alcohol.
Yeah, take a look at alcohol. No Mexican drug gangs involved in that, are there? Yes, we know criminals do crimes, and if you make one thing legal they'll look for another. That doesn't mean taking one revenue stream away from them isn't worth while.

Geno
06-24-2011, 02:25 AM
Legalize everything.

Prohibition doesn't work - the 1920s and 30s prove that.

You have to be free to fail as well as free to succeed if you are free.

I do not use or condone the use of illicit drugs. I do feel that the incarceration of half the world is ridiculuos beyond compare.

Geno
06-24-2011, 02:27 AM
Mkae it legal.

That removes the crazy profit margin from it and removes the criminal element. Without the crazy profit margin - the gangs go back to being irrelevant.

PeterSibley
06-24-2011, 03:32 AM
Sadly, it would make too much sense to legalize it. The money in wages for law enforcement alone will be the biggest lobby against it. The DEA brags they spend $500,000.00 a minute on the war on drugs. I'm sure it's 1000% more though, adding courts, corrections officers, probation officers and lawyers. What could our country become again, with that money where it is needed.

Sounds like great debt reduction strategy .

Curtism
06-24-2011, 05:00 AM
I wonder, like Nascar resulted from ending the prohibition of alcohol, what new sport would emerge if they legalized cannabis?

One problem I see with legalizing it though is that, for now, the pot trade is the closest thing we have to a free market economy in the US. (Turns up snarkasm filter a few notches here . . .) Due to the availability of it (in my neck of the woods anyway) the competition to distribute it remains stiff and has managed to keep the prices down over the years. If an industry such as big tobacco took over the marijuana market, and they surely would, they would immediately institute the age old supply and demand shell game, the doctrine of (artificial) short -supply in order to enhance corporate profits would be played, the Gov would tax the bejeebers out of it and in no time all of that would drive the price through the roof, thus making it difficult for commoners to acquire. It wouldn’t matter that doing this would help to keep a black market alive and well.

Would the tobacco lobby mange to buy legislation that made it illegal to possess seeds and/or grow your own supply? I bet they would but it’s probably all a moot point. Alcohol and big pharma will surely see to it that any such nonsense gets squashed before becoming law. It would eat into their profits, ya know? And we can’t have that.

Tylerdurden
06-24-2011, 05:17 AM
I wonder, like Nascar resulted from ending the prohibition of alcohol, what new sport would emerge if they legalized cannabis?


Couch surfing and who can take the biggest power bong hit.

stevebla
06-24-2011, 11:41 AM
Who can eat the most nuterbutter peanut butter sandwich cookies!

Driver Mark
06-24-2011, 05:55 PM
I wonder, like Nascar resulted from ending the prohibition of alcohol, what new
sport would emerge if they legalized cannabis?



Well, it won't be competetive eating because we already got that......

SamSam
06-24-2011, 08:23 PM
I wonder, like Nascar resulted from ending the prohibition of alcohol, what new sport would emerge if they legalized cannabis?


Bevis and Butthead marathons.

skipper68
06-25-2011, 04:51 PM
by Jonik / June 18th, 2011
http://dissidentvoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Pot-War-Success-786x1024.jpg (http://dissidentvoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Pot-War-Success.jpg)

pipefitter
06-25-2011, 07:27 PM
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." Abraham Lincoln

George Ray
06-25-2011, 08:14 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b7/Kellyposter1970.jpg/423px-Kellyposter1970.jpg

Gerarddm
06-25-2011, 08:25 PM
You GO, Railsplitter!

Samson Post
03-15-2015, 09:02 AM
Well hasn't the landscape changed in just a couple yrs....:d

slug
03-15-2015, 09:13 AM
Yah...legal drugs is a bad move. The next generation will suffer.

Cuyahoga Chuck
03-15-2015, 09:21 AM
Well hasn't the landscape changed in just a couple yrs....:d


Well, yeah. Just last night there was a news story about the numbes of home explosians that have occured around Denver. It seems the ganja crowd is not fully satisfied with easy access to weed. Some are cooking their stash to get a concenrrate that happens to give a terrific buzz but is also so unstable it blows up. Better living thru' chemistry?

Vince Brennan
03-15-2015, 09:21 AM
Nothing turns up on searching... got a link?

oznabrag
03-15-2015, 09:27 AM
Yah...legal drugs is a bad move. The next generation will suffer.

Nah.

The next generation is gonna suffer anyway, so let's let them suffer from something other than criminalization of the human need to get off.

Reynard38
03-15-2015, 09:39 AM
Legalize it yes. However I'd want to see protections for companies and industries that still want to do drug testing. Also there needs to be some type of testing, similar to the breathalyzer for suspected DUI cases. I do not want to be on the road with stoners any more so than with drunks.
If you want to use this stuff in the privacy of your home I'm fine with that. I don't want to smell it as I'm walking down the street on the way to dinner.
Legalize and then tax/regulate the hell out of it.

Gib Etheridge
03-15-2015, 12:14 PM
"Legalize and then tax/regulate the hell out of it."

That will make it so expensive that it guarantees a strong black market.

The only way to eliminate the black market is to make it as legal as tomatoes, as in anyone can grow and sell and consume as much as they wish.

Reynard38
03-15-2015, 12:37 PM
Tobacco and alcohol are regulated and taxed. Don't see much call for rum running anymore.

Old Dryfoot
03-15-2015, 12:38 PM
Legalize it yes. However I'd want to see protections for companies and industries that still want to do drug testing. Also there needs to be some type of testing, similar to the breathalyzer for suspected DUI cases. I do not want to be on the road with stoners any more so than with drunks.
If you want to use this stuff in the privacy of your home I'm fine with that. I don't want to smell it as I'm walking down the street on the way to dinner.
Legalize and then tax/regulate the hell out of it.

Treat it the same way we regulate alcohol. In so far as drug testing is concerned, if you show up for work drunk or high, there should be consequences. Denial or termination of employment for use should not enter into it at all. There is strongly held misconception that anyone having consumed pot is somehow impaired days after the fact. That belief is wrong. I would be far more worried about someone working while hungover than I would about someone that had smoked a joint or two the night before.

EDIT: Taxation needs to be reasonable, if you make it too steep, the black market will remain though diminished.

Steve McMahon
03-15-2015, 12:47 PM
Tobacco and alcohol are regulated and taxed. Don't see much call for rum running anymore.

Come on down and visit the Burin Peninsula of Newfoundland. St-Pierre & Miquelon (France) is a short boat ride through the fog away :d

Note: Booze is taxed so heavily in Canada that there is a healthy black market. A 26 oz of the basic hard stuff is around $30.00

RonW
03-15-2015, 12:51 PM
http://www.libertystickers.com/static/images/The-war-on-drugs-SH.gif

Gib Etheridge
03-15-2015, 12:52 PM
Rum running is so expensive in itself that it's not worth it. Pot is cheap to grow, well, cheaper than running rum.

When regulated grow ops were allowed here the black market price went up. Conforming to the extreme regulations is very expensive, then add the taxes.

There is lots of tobacco smuggling going on. It makes the news every once in a while.

I read recently of an operation that had to recall their product because it was too potent. They were just trying to be as efficient as possible to keep the price a bit lower.

Old Dryfoot
03-15-2015, 12:54 PM
Come on down and visit the Burin Peninsula of Newfoundland. St-Pierre & Miquelon (France) is a short boat ride through the fog away :d

Note: Booze is taxed so heavily in Canada that there is a healthy black market. A 26 oz of the basic hard stuff is around $30.00

I know of two people that have at times have run their own stills. It was not a commercial thing, just a way to get around the high prices.

Gib Etheridge
03-15-2015, 12:55 PM
Come on down and visit the Burin Peninsula of Newfoundland. St-Pierre & Miquelon (France) is a short boat ride through the fog away :d

Note: Booze is taxed so heavily in Canada that there is a healthy black market. A 26 oz of the basic hard stuff is around $30.00

I was unaware of the traffic in booze. I guess it works well there anyway. Well, just more evidence that strong regulation and heavy taxation contribute to black market success. Nothing new.

Gib Etheridge
03-15-2015, 12:57 PM
I know of two people that have at times have run their own stills. It was not a commercial thing, just a way to get around the high prices.

I have often thought that that would be fun, if I was a drinker. Lots of folks make their own wine and beer here, probably everywhere I suppose.

Old Dryfoot
03-15-2015, 12:57 PM
I was unaware of the traffic in booze. I guess it works well there anyway. Well, just more evidence that strong regulation and heavy taxation contribute to black market success. Nothing new.

Yup. That's 'sin tax' for you. Brought to you by high horses and moral fiber. :D

Reynard38
03-15-2015, 12:58 PM
Treat it the same way we regulate alcohol. In so far as drug testing is concerned, if you show up for work drunk or high, there should be consequences. Denial or termination of employment for use should not enter into it at all. There is strongly held misconception that anyone having consumed pot is somehow impaired days after the fact. That belief is wrong. I would be far more worried about someone working while hungover than I would about someone that had smoked a joint or two the night before.

EDIT: Taxation needs to be reasonable, if you make it too steep, the black market will remain though diminished.

I am subject to random testing for drugs. In my line of work I don't have a problem with it. I would NOT want to work with a drug user. Too much at stake.
Any company that wishes to make drug screening a condition of employment should be able to do so. You want the job, don't do drugs. In my case it's federal law, and it's VERY unlikely to change even it pot is legalized.

Gib Etheridge
03-15-2015, 12:59 PM
I am subject to random testing for drugs. In my line of work I don't have a problem with it. I would NOT want to work with a drug user. Too much at stake.
Any company that wishes to make drug screening a condition of employment should be able to do so. You want the job, don't do drugs. In my case it's federal law, and it's VERY unlikely to change even it pot is legalized.

That makes perfect sense to me, even though I haven't flown in years.

Old Dryfoot
03-15-2015, 01:01 PM
I have often thought that that would be fun, if I was a drinker. Lots of folks make their own wine and beer here, probably everywhere I suppose.

I've always wondered why beer and wine were fine, but spirits were not. I guess there is greater potential for things to go wrong during the process. . . but by how much?

Old Dryfoot
03-15-2015, 01:03 PM
I would NOT want to work with a drug user. Too much at stake.

I just want to point out that alcohol is also a drug.

John Smith
03-15-2015, 01:23 PM
I have no intention of smoking pot whether it's legal or not. Nor do I drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes. I have known some potheads and some alcoholics. I much prefer the potheads. In my limited experience, none of them got nasty or wanted to drive.

Truth be told, I'm not sure why I should care what substance someone else chooses to get high on, as long as he doesn't get behind the wheel, but that would be illegal whether the substance uses is legal or not.

Jim Mahan
03-15-2015, 05:02 PM
A real " pothead " doesnt want to do much of anything except ......... smoke pot.

Another Reefer Madness devotee, no doubt. Your contention isn't even close to true. Maybe for a some neglected teenager who would be that way with or without the pot.


I've always wondered why beer and wine were fine, but spirits were not.

It's perfectly legal to make your own distilled spirits. The amount is limited by law, there are taxes involved (IIRC) and you can't sell it without a permit. But you can make something like twelve gallons a year for your own consumption.

Making the price of pot (or anything) sufficiently high, or making the personal use, ownership and transportation difficult or problematic, doesn't just make a thriving black market, it fuels all of the illegal drug cartel business and all that supporting illegal associated activities like money laundering, turf wars, etc. and more war on drugs.

We're going to see soon, if not already, a significant drop off of the smuggling of pot, because, in addition to more outlets for legal acquisition, more and more users are finding out that growing their own is way cheaper, not terribly hard to learn to do, especially if all the effort isn't put into evading law enforcement, and because their are greater profits in getting meth across the borders and into the hinterlands. Meth is a much greater problem than either pot or alcohol, and it's traffic and use in the U.S. is increasing, and meth will never be legal.

I agree that some occupations should be allowed to or required to screen for, and prohibit with zero tolerance, the use of anything like pot or booze or speed. I'm also completely certain that millions of productive, creative individuals are using pot on a regular basis for their own reasons, with no real liability for the business or the work in which they are engaged, and in all walks and all across the country.

slug
03-15-2015, 05:15 PM
Does this mean that the US will now become an exporter of pot ?

Cuyahoga Chuck
03-15-2015, 08:12 PM
Nothing turns up on searching... got a link?

Sorry, I saw it on TV. I don't have cable so it was on one of the broadcast channels. The gooh which looks like thin pine tar has a chemical name. I'll see if I can come up with something. It's called "hash oil".
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/legal-pot/pot-predicament-hash-oil-explosions-pose-risk-colorado-homes-n323541

Captain Intrepid
03-15-2015, 08:21 PM
I am subject to random testing for drugs. In my line of work I don't have a problem with it. I would NOT want to work with a drug user. Too much at stake.
Any company that wishes to make drug screening a condition of employment should be able to do so. You want the job, don't do drugs. In my case it's federal law, and it's VERY unlikely to change even it pot is legalized.

The vast majority of pilots do use psychotropic drugs, simply with common sense restrictions.

Captain Intrepid
03-15-2015, 08:50 PM
Sorry, I saw it on TV. I don't have cable so it was on one of the broadcast channels. The gooh which looks like thin pine tar has a chemical name. I'll see if I can come up with something. It's called "hash oil".
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/legal-pot/pot-predicament-hash-oil-explosions-pose-risk-colorado-homes-n323541

Idiots. Why not stick with nice safe bubble hash?

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
03-15-2015, 08:50 PM
Hey Skippy!:)
I've been breakin the law since 1968.
It would be nice to see the weed legal in my lifetime.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRXOjllwX4

Lew Barrett
03-15-2015, 09:43 PM
I just want to point out that alcohol is also a drug.

And with far more serious long term consequences for abusers. Nobody wants to get on a plane piloted by somebody who is loaded, but I could care less if they smoked weed more than 24 hours before they flew. Its effects simply aren't that long lasting, even though traces can be detected for days if not weeks following consumption.

Most addiction specialists will tell you that alcohol is possibly the most dangerous and underestimated substance abuse problem of the lot.

Jim Mahan
03-15-2015, 10:34 PM
And I have known pot heads. Not casual smokers but pot heads. Marijuana kills motivation in every person I have known who has been a heavy user. Pretty sure its a fact.

I won't speak to your experience. I have my own experience, which is very different. You have an opinion that is shared by many people, but it is not a majority opinion, not that that matters, and your confidence in your opinion and your experience, does not make it a fact.

Reynard38
03-15-2015, 11:16 PM
And with far more serious long term consequences for abusers. Nobody wants to get on a plane piloted by somebody who is loaded, but I could care less if they smoked weed more than 24 hours before they flew. Its effects simply aren't that long lasting, even though traces can be detected for days if not weeks following consumption.

Most addiction specialists will tell you that alcohol is possibly the most dangerous and underestimated substance abuse problem of the lot.

Unless the testing methods have changed its not possible to determmine if drug use occurred in the past 8 hours, or a month ago. That's one reason the rule won't change.
I have never met a pilot foolish enough to risk his career by messing with drugs. I wouldn't share a cockpit with someone with such poor judgement.
Incedentally we are random tested for alcohol as well.

Reynard38
03-15-2015, 11:25 PM
The vast majority of pilots do use psychotropic drugs, simply with common sense restrictions.

If you are referring to alcohol you are correct. Most of the pilots I know will have a beer or glass of wine with dinner on a layover of sufficient length. The rule is no consumption of alcohol within 8 hours of reporting for duty. Obviously good judgement would dictate against excessive consumption. Our random testing standard is MUCH less than for driving.

Captain Intrepid
03-15-2015, 11:35 PM
If you are referring to alcohol you are correct. Most of the pilots I know will have a beer or glass of wine with dinner on a layover of sufficient length. The rule is no consumption of alcohol within 8 hours of reporting for duty. Obviously good judgement would dictate against excessive consumption. Our random testing standard is MUCH less than for driving.

Aye. It's all common sense stuff. When a reliable test is developed for pot inebriation, I don't see why a pilot can't enjoy a wee puff after a long day of work. Of course, I don't agree with testing without cause but for the most safety sensitive of jobs. I'm not even too keen on it then if it isn't for inebriation but for past use.

The best and most important way of preventing inebriation related incidents is aware co-workers. In my line of work it goes beyond a good idea, it's the law that I must be satisfied that my relief is sober and awake.

Lew Barrett
03-16-2015, 03:17 AM
Unless the testing methods have changed its not possible to determmine if drug use occurred in the past 8 hours, or a month ago. That's one reason the rule won't change.
I have never met a pilot foolish enough to risk his career by messing with drugs. I wouldn't share a cockpit with someone with such poor judgement.
Incedentally we are random tested for alcohol as well.

I've never met a pilot who didn't drink once in a while.

I can appreciate that smoking marijuana is problematic for anybody who is routinely drug tested. If you know going in that traces showing up in a test will cost you your job, smoking weed is by definition risky behavior. In your environment I might feel the same, but the real difference is that alcohol passes through your system quite a bit faster. Traces of THC remain in the hair, fingernails and blood quite a bit longer, for weeks. But that doesn't mean the subject is unfit for service.

I'm fine with the rulings since I don't fly for a living and when I did fly for pleasure, I obeyed the 24 hour rule rigorously. After all, the biggest loser would have been me.

Now I'll say this. I'd as soon have a sober pilot flying my airplane so for all I care, they can pass a rule forbidding commercial pilots to ever consume alcohol as well. But if I had to make a choice, I'd far sooner be flown around by a guy who smokes pot once in a while than a guy who drinks all the time but knocked it off eight hours prior to his next flight just because he knew the boogy man would get him if he showed up to work with it on his breath. The rule may be 24 hours, but eight or ten is all it takes to transit one's system. Unfortunately, a sober drunk is still a sot.

Understand, I don't reckon that describes many pilots, of course.

Lew Barrett
03-16-2015, 03:21 AM
I left out urine, but it hangs around in there too. :) Curious, because hangovers are a condition of drinking, not smoking.

Jim Mahan
03-16-2015, 09:51 AM
THC remains in fat cells, too. You'll be more likely to pass the test if you're not carrying around a spare tire.

slug
03-17-2015, 03:16 AM
Bbc

war on drugs.

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/inquiry/inquiry_20150317-0700a.mp3

Old Dryfoot
03-17-2015, 09:37 AM
THC remains in fat cells, too. You'll be more likely to pass the test if you're not carrying around a spare tire.

A double whammy from the munchies!