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Tylerdurden
06-09-2011, 10:54 AM
The Age Of Ron Paul or Busy bodys and Parasites will hate this. To bad , dig down deep and think isn't this the way we should be going?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKYm_huuRpY&feature=player_embedded

wardd
06-09-2011, 10:59 AM
i disagree with most all he says

as long as there are those that will make a profit at any cost, usually to others, we will need government agencies such as the fda, osha, transportation and faa

Arizona Bay
06-09-2011, 11:03 AM
No Thanks
Just another version of 'I want what I want'

Tylerdurden
06-09-2011, 11:14 AM
Notice who is opposing him. Then think for yourselves. These guys above are wrong and know it. They lie to achieve their ends of continuous corruption " I know you agree with much of what he stands for, but the broad swath of the American people don't. If they did, he'd be leading the GOP contenders, not trailing them." See what I mean? He is only trailing in the mainstream media propaganda. A mainstream media owned by six corporations. We know other wise. 47million on foodstamps, actual unemployment figured by Pre-Clinton cover up fraud Formulas is above 22% and Inflation gaining ground everyday. Is it really going to be more of the same because these fools want it to stay this way to line their pocketbooks?

wardd
06-09-2011, 11:20 AM
yeah but the good doctors message just doesnt carry as well as it did before the tea party started

on the right the craziest voice is the most listened to voice

Arizona Bay
06-09-2011, 11:28 AM
So you want to replace Greed, with Selfishness... no thanks

Tylerdurden
06-09-2011, 11:46 AM
Some truth amongst the lies


http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=15271

Tylerdurden
06-09-2011, 12:32 PM
“People, you know, if it continues, we’re going to start to see civil unrest in this country. I hate to say that, but I think it’s imminently possible.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/06/carville-2012-could-be-very-rough-for-obama-says-civil-unrest-imminently-possible/#ixzz1OnlIwE1V

pefjr
06-09-2011, 02:08 PM
I may vote for him if Obama continues to stuff the future of our country down the MIC hole.

Tylerdurden
06-09-2011, 02:19 PM
He's 75 years old. And what? your a spring chicken? Sorry but reading a dude one step from oblivion worried about Ron Pauls age is completely amusing. :)

pefjr
06-09-2011, 02:24 PM
"The president does not have the power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an attack or an imminent threat to the nation."

Who said this? Was he a Lawyer. What the hell did he know about the Constitution? Senile?

Kucinich/Paul for 2012, or Paul/Kucinich makes no difference to me. One will just change his brand.

botebum
06-09-2011, 02:36 PM
He's 75 years old.Beat me to it:D

Doug

wardd
06-09-2011, 02:52 PM
Anyone who would name his child after Ayn Rand has got to have some screws loose.

rand is his nickname, his real name is adolf

George Ray
06-09-2011, 03:04 PM
Dissatisfaction with government ** has been growing in the last decade and the economy has had it's rough patches but the deciding emotion at the ballot box has been 'fear of too much change', so people vote for incremental change that builds on the status quo. However attractive Ron Paul's philosophy was in the past he represented a break with the familiar, a big step into uncharted territory, to much too soon.
Today the developed world is close to a unanimous consensus that we are in uncharted territory. To the extent that this is the case the voters will be open to consideration of what they feel are desperate measures and to heck with the 'status quo'. That is the opening for Ron Paul, and rightly so.

------------

**: Dissatisfaction with government
Politicians that are perceived as serving 'self', 'party', and 'special interests' at the expense of the public.
Ineptly managed and fiscally wasteful foreign and domestic aid and natural resource policies.
Rise of bureaucracies that are perceived as serving themselves and special corporate interests rather than the public good.
Perception that the USA has squandered it's privileged position on the world stage and is close to being perceived as inept by some and morally bankrupt by others.


refer:
James Dobbins, former ambassador
Dr. Douglas Johnston, Capt USN Ret.
Thomas Friedman, columnist NY Times

switters
06-09-2011, 03:36 PM
born Randal, nickname Randy, not named after Ayn Rand.

keep swinging for the fence though.

Tylerdurden
06-09-2011, 03:49 PM
born Randal, nickname Randy, not named after Ayn Rand.

keep swinging for the fence though.

It's called desperation, the hardcore partisans on both sides cannot handle losing control of the herd. Too late but these guys won't get it until they or a loved one is assaulted in a mob robbery or something similar. It's not Miltia guys like me or even anarchists the extreme right or left partisans have to worry about, it's the predators. It's coming girls it's starting all over the country just like Chicago. Police have been cutback to the bones in most city's and don't think they will protect you middle class drones. Remember the LA riots and how close they came to breaking out of the neighborhoods. Now teen unemployment is over 55 % in even upper middle class neighborhoods and those kids relate to RAP and the Gangsta characters.
You all better rethink your go slow positions because youth anger doesn't go slow.

ishmael
06-09-2011, 04:07 PM
I can't watch the vid, but I heard him in a hour interview with Diane Riem last week.

Still pretty sharp, though his age is showing a bit.

His main theme, "Stop spending money you don't have" is going to resonate. It resonates with anyone trying to run a household, keep everyone fed and the rain out. He's right, at some point it will catch up with us.

wardd
06-09-2011, 05:02 PM
wonder how old dutch is

Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-09-2011, 05:07 PM
10 Myths That Mark Wants Us to Believe
1. They're out to get me.
2. I'm not crazy.
3. They're out to get you.
4. You are crazy.
5. They're out to get all of us.
6. They're all crazy.
7. I know who "they" are but I can't tell you because you'll think I'm crazy.
8. I'm here to save you from yourself.
9. There's no saving you.
10. Really, I'm not crazy!




Priceless!!!

Gerarddm
06-09-2011, 07:10 PM
Esquire had a really good article on Ron Paul ( the issue with Jeff Bridges on the cover). It summarized that if he got his way America would be smaller, less consequential, and more free, which is a tradeoff he is willing to make.

I applaud the courage of his convictions, while remaining convinced that he's a black and white guy in a grey world. Simplicity simply isn't on these days, to coin a Brit term.

Tylerdurden
06-09-2011, 07:25 PM
Esquire had a really good article on Ron Paul ( the issue with Jeff Bridges on the cover). It summarized that if he got his way America would be smaller, less consequential, and more free, which is a tradeoff he is willing to make.

I applaud the courage of his convictions, while remaining convinced that he's a black and white guy in a grey world. Simplicity simply isn't on these days, to coin a Brit term.

Black and White? You may be accurate but better Black and White than Black and Blue. More of the same game means only black and blue on the horizon. I still feel stongly that we may never get a chance to make another election but I have been wrong before on time. Not on substance.

pefjr
06-09-2011, 07:50 PM
10 retard mythsshoo fly, shoo!

Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-09-2011, 08:07 PM
Hi Puffy... nice to see you!!! Still pretending to be a Scotsman?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-09-2011, 08:08 PM
Black and White? You may be accurate but better Black and White than Black and Blue. More of the same game means only black and blue on the horizon. I still feel stongly that we may never get a chance to make another election but I have been wrong before on time. Not on substance.


Whoa. Now this is serious Noggin joggin.

oznabrag
06-09-2011, 08:21 PM
And what? your a spring chicken? Sorry but reading a dude one step from oblivion worried about Ron Pauls age is completely amusing. :)

You're the oblivious dude who posted a WHOLE THREAD about the age of Ron Paul!

It's like you didn't even know he was 75, or something!

Sometimes I worry about you, and sometimes I hope for the worst...

ishmael
06-10-2011, 06:33 AM
Mark, if I may be so bold, was posting about a change in perspective that congressman Paul represents.

The US has been spending money it doesn't have since WWII. At a point, our creditors are going to call us on it. Nobody wants it to be a crash, because everybody has a rice bowl involved.

The Chinese, who hold a major portion of that debt, are firing a few warning shots across the bow. Maybe we should heed them?

Tylerdurden
06-10-2011, 06:35 AM
You're the oblivious dude who posted a WHOLE THREAD about the age of Ron Paul!

It's like you didn't even know he was 75, or something!

Sometimes I worry about you, and sometimes I hope for the worst...

You have real issues with understanding language like Donn. This may help for what you missed in school.

Age may refer to:
The length of time that an organism has lived:


Ageing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing), the social, cultural, and economic factors of human age and ageing
Senescence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senescence), the biology and science of aging

A period of history:


List of time periods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_periods)
Three-age system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-age_system) (Stone/Bronze/Iron ages)
Geologic time scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_time_scale)
Age (geology) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stage_%28stratigraphy%29)
Astrological age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age)

Scientific journals:


Age (journal) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_%28journal%29), an international peer-reviewed journal operated by Springer.
Psychology and Aging (journal) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology_and_Aging_%28journal%29), an international peer-reviews journal operated by the American Psychological Association

Other:


Åge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85ge), a Norwegian given name
Agé (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag%C3%A9), a god from the mythology of the Fon people; the son of Mawu-Lisa
One of the D'ni Ages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myst_%28series%29), the fictional universe in the Myst series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myst_%28series%29) of games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game).
Agenore Incrocci (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenore_Incrocci), an Italian screenwriter.
Age (model theory) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_%28model_theory%29), the class of all finitely generated structures which are embeddable in a structure A in mathematics
âge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%82ge) Japanese company
The Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age) is a daily newspaper published in Melbourne, Australia.
Angel Game Engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_Advanced_Game_Engine) was an engine used in various games made by Rockstar San Diego. It was the basis for the Rockstar Advanced Game Engine.
The language Esimbi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esimbi_language) spoken in parts of Cameroon
IATA Airport Code AGE for Airport Wangerooge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wangerooge)
Åge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85ge), (given name page)
Aage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aage), (given name page)

pefjr
06-10-2011, 08:54 AM
Age is an issue with Paul certainly. Too old to be Prez. for most, the mind usually is a factor by then. In Paul's case it doesn't show. In Beanny's case it's not age, it's issues. Lots of em.

Tylerdurden
06-10-2011, 09:05 AM
Age is an issue with Paul certainly. Too old to be Prez. for most, the mind usually is a factor by then. In Paul's case it doesn't show. In Beanny's case it's not age, it's issues. Lots of em.

I will agree he is either across the line or up against it. The thing is Paul brings and Idea and if elected he will bring others with him, introduce an whole new generation of thinkers outside the status quo and open up a real conversation absent of partisanship and more in line with the founders original vision. That should scare the hell out of most people as then instead of incrementalism they would have to confront real change. One may not think it can happen but if not now then in a generation as the youth see through most of the bull that the partisans spread here. They know there is more than the boxes old farts and fearful men put in front of them. The future is for the bold and the brave.

dsk1000
06-10-2011, 01:06 PM
Shook Ron Paul's hand today in Portsmouth, NH and had lunch "with" him at Geno's. Nice man. Refreshing.

Dave Wright
06-10-2011, 01:32 PM
... He is only trailing in the mainstream media propaganda....

If Jack and Jill Sixpack knew anything at all about von Mises' ideas, Paul would be long forgotten and dismissed by absolutely everyone.

oznabrag
06-10-2011, 01:55 PM
You have real issues with understanding language ...

Not at all.

You have issues with understanding a 'joke', especially when the joke's on you!

dsk1000
06-10-2011, 02:34 PM
If Jack and Jill Sixpack knew anything at all about von Mises' ideas, Paul would be long forgotten and dismissed by absolutely everyone.

I'm curious to know to which of von Mises' ideas you're referring. A statement like that would really contain more value if it were backed up with specifics.

TomF
06-10-2011, 02:35 PM
Dissatisfaction with government ** has been growing in the last decade and the economy has had it's rough patches but the deciding emotion at the ballot box has been 'fear of too much change', so people vote for incremental change that builds on the status quo. However attractive Ron Paul's philosophy was in the past he represented a break with the familiar, a big step into uncharted territory, to much too soon.
Today the developed world is close to a unanimous consensus that we are in uncharted territory. To the extent that this is the case the voters will be open to consideration of what they feel are desperate measures and to heck with the 'status quo'. That is the opening for Ron Paul, and rightly so.

------------

**: Dissatisfaction with government
Politicians that are perceived as serving 'self', 'party', and 'special interests' at the expense of the public.
Ineptly managed and fiscally wasteful foreign and domestic aid and natural resource policies.
Rise of bureaucracies that are perceived as serving themselves and special corporate interests rather than the public good.
Perception that the USA has squandered it's privileged position on the world stage and is close to being perceived as inept by some and morally bankrupt by others.


refer:
James Dobbins, former ambassador
Dr. Douglas Johnston, Capt USN Ret.
Thomas Friedman, columnist NY TimesIt is interesting to compare the general societal attitude this describes with the attitudes in pre-revolutionary Russia, or pre-Nazi Germany, or pre-Franco Spain etc.

Glen Longino
06-10-2011, 02:41 PM
Shook Ron Paul's hand today in Portsmouth, NH and had lunch "with" him at Geno's. Nice man. Refreshing.

Ron Paul is a delusional old fool.
Forty years ago when I first met him in his home district in Southeast Texas he was a delusional young fool, but none-the-less a fool politically.
A nice man? Yes he is.

dsk1000
06-10-2011, 02:48 PM
Heh, Glen. Actually, he's not. But I'm feeling more inclined to take a delusional old fool with integrity over the liars you've been electing any day. Integrity still counts for something, or at least it should.

But again, I'm not interested in people lobbing vapid insults at each other, even though that seems to be a favorite pastime here. If you want to offer some rationale for why you think he's a delusional old fool, I'm happy to listen and engage.

pefjr
06-10-2011, 05:02 PM
Heh, Glen. Actually, he's not. But I'm feeling more inclined to take a delusional old fool with integrity over the liars you've been electing any day. Integrity still counts for something, or at least it should.

But again, I'm not interested in people lobbing vapid insults at each other, even though that seems to be a favorite pastime here. If you want to offer some rationale for why you think he's a delusional old fool, I'm happy to listen and engage. Dsk, GL is a non thinker die hard lib, and he spews that out instinctively without thinking that someone might ask him why. He can't answer that. He might go along with Kucinich because he is a Dem. These guys don't step over the party line. They can't think that far away from the party directive.

oznabrag
06-10-2011, 05:14 PM
Dsk, GL is a non thinker die hard lib, and he spews that out instinctively without thinking that someone might ask him why. He can't answer that. He might go along with Kucinich because he is a Dem. These guys don't step over the party line. They can't think that far away from the party directive.

Well screw the irony meter!

You and your cohorts have broken at least one of those every day for weeks, now, and I've run out of patience and the budget for them has been expended.

Bah!

pefjr
06-10-2011, 05:53 PM
Well screw the irony meter!

You and your cohorts have broken at least one of those every day for weeks, now, and I've run out of patience and the budget for them has been expended.

Bah!Prove me wrong big talker. You are even more 'rusted on' than GL. I have some Liguid Wrench.

Cuyahoga Chuck
06-10-2011, 06:11 PM
Heh, Glen. Actually, he's not. But I'm feeling more inclined to take a delusional old fool with integrity over the liars you've been electing any day. Integrity still counts for something, or at least it should.

But again, I'm not interested in people lobbing vapid insults at each other, even though that seems to be a favorite pastime here. If you want to offer some rationale for why you think he's a delusional old fool, I'm happy to listen and engage.

"Shook Ron Paul's hand today in Portsmouth, NH and had lunch "with" him at Geno's. Nice man. Refreshing."
The above is what you offered, which isn't much, but you want more definitive comments from your opponents,eh?
Then there's this;
" But I'm feeling more inclined to take a delusional old fool with integrity over the liars you've been electing any day. Integrity still counts for something, or at least it should."
Nice of you to brand the opposition leaders as "liars". Again, not much specificity and kind of scary. The most powerful country on earth with a delusional leader? You must be feeling like an immortal to have such an attitude.

Tylerdurden
06-10-2011, 06:41 PM
Heh, Glen. Actually, he's not. But I'm feeling more inclined to take a delusional old fool with integrity over the liars you've been electing any day. Integrity still counts for something, or at least it should.

But again, I'm not interested in people lobbing vapid insults at each other, even though that seems to be a favorite pastime here. If you want to offer some rationale for why you think he's a delusional old fool, I'm happy to listen and engage.

Don't sweat the crew, It's been that way for years here now. I think you will find it impossible to have any meaningful discussion while running up against severe dogma burnt into the minds of people who haven't really felt discomfort in their lives yet. The Quote George Ray posted sums it up nicely
"Dissatisfaction with government ** has been growing in the last decade and the economy has had it's rough patches but the deciding emotion at the ballot box has been 'fear of too much change', so people vote for incremental change that builds on the status quo. However attractive Ron Paul's philosophy was in the past he represented a break with the familiar, a big step into uncharted territory, to much too soon.
Today the developed world is close to a unanimous consensus that we are in uncharted territory. To the extent that this is the case the voters will be open to consideration of what they feel are desperate measures and to heck with the 'status quo'. That is the opening for Ron Paul, and rightly so."

That's really all that needs be said now as the torch is quickly passing to the generation after us who grew up with open minds in the house of lies revealed. Between them and the awakened, those living in the wreckage of the American Dream "you have to be asleep to believe it" There exists enough resistance to get this party started. Its a long way from 2012 in the exponential rocket sled to hell we call America and the fat lady hasn't sung yet. In fact I hear they had to change plans as Jennifer Hudson lost too much and Christina Aguilera isn't quite there yet so there is lots of room for change to take hold (real change not happy change in front of an MP-5 and a badge). Let the fearful and the hopelessly programmed hold on as they are in reality inconsequential. As in every revolution it's a minority that get's the work of change done. Ron Paul is not the answer, it's the ideas he carries. No one, not even the most excellent of the wooden boat crew of bad influence can kill an idea and especially an Idea whose time has come.

dsk1000
06-10-2011, 07:24 PM
You're an angry man Chuck. Good luck with that. Asking Glen what he means doesn't make him my "opponent".

Yes, I think a statement calling someone a "delusional old fool" should come with more justification than "Shook Ron Paul's hand today in Portsmouth, NH and had lunch "with" him at Geno's. Nice man. Refreshing." If you can't see the difference, you've been caught up in this garbage too long.

So as not to leave any ambiguity, merely calling someone names is petty and dumb, whereas making a simple statement about something that happened to me today is just that. I didn't tell you or anyone to vote for him, I didn't even mention his politics, or any for that matter.

What on earth are you fellas getting out of bashing each other all the time? No one seems to be saying or listening to anything. I knew a fella once who played golf and he was lousy. He was miserable to play with too, always cussing and grunting and thrashing his clubs around. But he loved the game because he took all his pent up aggression out on the course. I guess it spared his wife. I always thought of him as a pathetic little man.

Glen Longino
06-10-2011, 09:57 PM
Dsk, GL is a non thinker die hard lib, and he spews that out instinctively without thinking that someone might ask him why. He can't answer that. He might go along with Kucinich because he is a Dem. These guys don't step over the party line. They can't think that far away from the party directive.

You're reaching, Bud!
Your own incessant vindictive spew makes me look like the Humanitarian I am.
It's obvious that I'm gregarious, tolerant, amiable, kind, thoughtful, and generous while you OTOH are hateful, spiteful, mal-contented, greedy, self-serving, petty, angry, and jealous.
You need to go walk-about for a few months before all your brains leak out your ears.

Glen Longino
06-10-2011, 10:01 PM
Prove me wrong big talker. You are even more 'rusted on' than GL. I have some Liguid Wrench.

John T has more Humanity in his little finger than you have in your entire body, you pompous little prig, and you know it.

Glen Longino
06-10-2011, 10:15 PM
Heh, Glen. Actually, he's not. But I'm feeling more inclined to take a delusional old fool with integrity over the liars you've been electing any day. Integrity still counts for something, or at least it should.

But again, I'm not interested in people lobbing vapid insults at each other, even though that seems to be a favorite pastime here. If you want to offer some rationale for why you think he's a delusional old fool, I'm happy to listen and engage.

That's the problem with Ron Paul, he lacks integrity, contrary to your apparent opinion.
Ron Paul knows damn well he can not implement his zany ideas into law in a democracy...he simply wants his sycophants to believe he can. That is not "integrity".
You should closely examine Ron Paul's record if you want to know why I call him an old fool.
I'm not going to read it to you.
I'm not your personal research librarian.

Dave Wright
06-10-2011, 10:25 PM
I'm curious to know to which of von Mises' ideas you're referring. A statement like that would really contain more value if it were backed up with specifics.

I have no idea if Jack and Jill Sixpack even know that Paul subscribes to von Mises ideas. I would start with von Mises “Critique of Interventionism.” When I read it (a long time ago) I thought von Mises was in error when he theorized that government intervention into the economy resulted in further and further intervention, that each intervention results in damage, and that the entire economy eventually falls under state control.

I’ll leave it to you to answer whether this has happened, or is likely to happen here in the U.S. If your answer is “NO,” then you agree with me.

Von Mises also theorized that the state, in these interventions, did immoral acts, e.g. influence pedaling, corruption, favors, etc. We can certainly see this to some degree, but I would argue that raw capitalism, without rationale government intervention is worse - far and away in excess of any “corrupt” measures our U.S. government has ever implemented, either knowingly or inadvertently.

I believe the market and banking excesses of the past few years demonstrate this nicely.

Enough from me, what’s your take?

Keith Wilson
06-10-2011, 10:33 PM
. . but I would argue that raw capitalism, without rational government intervention is worse - far and away in excess of any “corrupt” measures our U.S. government has ever implemented, either knowingly or inadvertently. I believe the market and banking excesses of the past few years demonstrate this nicely.
Indeed. Even more so the history of the 19th and early 20th century, when nearly unrestricted capitalism flourished. It was only by immense efforts and the shedding of a fair amount of blood that it was brought under control.

leikec
06-10-2011, 10:52 PM
Shook Ron Paul's hand today in Portsmouth, NH and had lunch "with" him at Geno's. Nice man. Refreshing.


I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Ron Paul turned out to be a nice man. I'm sure George W. Bush is a great guy to have a beer with, but I wasn't happy with many of the decisions he made as president. I've met Bill Clinton several times--he's a great guy to talk to, intelligent and loaded with charm, but I know enough from the public record to keep my niece away from him.

The problem with Dr. Paul is that I don't think he could be elected, and if he was elected he would have an impossible time getting any of his policies enacted into law. The other problem I have with Dr. Paul is that I personally think his policies (if they became law) would destroy the country.

I'm also extremely uncomfortable with Dr. Paul's reluctance to distance himself from hate groups such as Stormfront. I talked to his St. Louis campaign manager specifically about the links on Stormfront's webpage during the 2008 campaign and he told me in no uncertain terms that Dr. Paul would not denounce Stormfront or refuse to take money raised through the link on Stormfront's webpage, because "Dr. Paul supports freedom of speech." I asked him then if Dr. Paul believed in the principals expoused by Stormfront and he told me that the campaign would be happy to take their money and support even though Dr. Paul "disagrees with their views."

He may very well be a nice man to talk with, and he may always tell the truth as he understands it, but I don't want him to be president.


Jeff C

Cuyahoga Chuck
06-10-2011, 11:38 PM
You're an angry man Chuck. Good luck with that. Asking Glen what he means doesn't make him my "opponent".

Yes, I think a statement calling someone a "delusional old fool" should come with more justification than "Shook Ron Paul's hand today in Portsmouth, NH and had lunch "with" him at Geno's. Nice man. Refreshing." If you can't see the difference, you've been caught up in this garbage too long.

So as not to leave any ambiguity, merely calling someone names is petty and dumb, whereas making a simple statement about something that happened to me today is just that. I didn't tell you or anyone to vote for him, I didn't even mention his politics, or any for that matter.

What on earth are you fellas getting out of bashing each other all the time? No one seems to be saying or listening to anything. I knew a fella once who played golf and he was lousy. He was miserable to play with too, always cussing and grunting and thrashing his clubs around. But he loved the game because he took all his pent up aggression out on the course. I guess it spared his wife. I always thought of him as a pathetic little man.

If you jumped into this game without knowing the rules, or lack thereof maybe, you are delusional. Ron Paul is being seriously touted by some as a viable presidential candidate.
He is so glib he is his own worst enemy. His standard fix for complex problems is to ignore them because "that isn't in the Constitution", or words to that effect. His view of our legal framework is so shallow we would have to revert to America in the 1880s to make all the pieces fit.
Now that his age is catching up with him he is not able to defend his ultra-right-wing turf effectively. And our experience with a septuagenarian president back in the '80s says we can't risk that any more. The modern world is too complex.

johnw
06-11-2011, 12:31 AM
I have no idea if Jack and Jill Sixpack even know that Paul subscribes to von Mises ideas. I would start with von Mises “Critique of Interventionism.” When I read it (a long time ago) I thought von Mises was in error when he theorized that government intervention into the economy resulted in further and further intervention, that each intervention results in damage, and that the entire economy eventually falls under state control.

I’ll leave it to you to answer whether this has happened, or is likely to happen here in the U.S. If your answer is “NO,” then you agree with me.

Von Mises also theorized that the state, in these interventions, did immoral acts, e.g. influence pedaling, corruption, favors, etc. We can certainly see this to some degree, but I would argue that raw capitalism, without rationale government intervention is worse - far and away in excess of any “corrupt” measures our U.S. government has ever implemented, either knowingly or inadvertently.

I believe the market and banking excesses of the past few years demonstrate this nicely.

Enough from me, what’s your take?

My take is that markets wouldn't exist without "government intervention." Without government to enforce property laws, what's the point in building things? Without government to enforce contracts, how could markets function at all? The problem is not whether government should butt out and let "nature" take its course, it's what government actions are needed to create markets and keep them functioning smoothly.

That's part of what was missed when the Russians made a move to capitalism. The courts were too corrupt to make property rights secure. The Russian economy will continue to be about as dependent on exporting its mineral wealth as it was in the Soviet days until it gets a better-functioning government that knows what it should stop doing and what it should do more of. A lot of what they should stop -- expropriating the property of political opponents, irrational tax regimes, thickets of regulations designed not to make society run smoothly but to create the maximum opportunities for collecting bribes -- are the sort of things conservatives have fought for years in this country. A lot of the things they should do more of -- enforcing contracts, prosecuting fraud, weeding out corruption -- are things progressives have fought for.

The problem with Ron Paul and his ilk is that they want to think that markets are "natural," that they exist regardless of governments. I think that's behind Paul's goldbuggism, he wants markets to have a medium of exchange that is "natural," and objects to "fiat" money because it reveals that money is a social construct. Of course, this means Milton Friedman is way too far to the left for Paul and his gang, what with Friedman's insistence on discretionary monetary policy.

Personally, I think markets, governments, and society itself are social constructs, and I'm not bothered by that. Of course we have to keep working on how our government works, that's our duty as citizens. And as a citizen who cares about his country, I hope to hell Ron Paul and his lilk never get to put their crackpot ideas into action. These folks are not just way to the right of Friedman, F.A. Hayek, and a whole host of others they profess to admire, they've substituted a bunch of glib slogans for real thought.

wardd
06-11-2011, 09:06 AM
If you jumped into this game without knowing the rules, or lack thereof maybe, you are delusional. Ron Paul is being seriously touted by some as a viable presidential candidate.
He is so glib he is his own worst enemy. His standard fix for complex problems is to ignore them because "that isn't in the Constitution", or words to that effect. His view of our legal framework is so shallow we would have to revert to America in the 1880s to make all the pieces fit.
Now that his age is catching up with him he is not able to defend his ultra-right-wing turf effectively. And our experience with a septuagenarian president back in the '80s says we can't risk that any more. The modern world is too complex.

tax cut, cut, cut is not complicated

Glen Longino
06-11-2011, 03:10 PM
tax cut, cut, cut is not complicated

Regress, regress, regress...danged Troglodytes!:)