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Peerie Maa
06-08-2011, 12:26 PM
A big C&P from the Beeb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13682082)


8 June 2011 Last updated at 02:44
Bilderberg mystery: Why do people believe in cabals?
Ordinary people can only guess at the goings-on at the meetings of the secretive Bilderberg Group, which is bringing together the world's financial and political elite this week. Conspiracy theories abound as to what is discussed and who is there. Why, asks Tom de Castella?

The belief in secret cabals running the world is a hardy perennial. And on Thursday perhaps the most controversial clandestine organisation of our times - the Bilderberg Group - is meeting behind closed doors.

In the manner of a James Bond plot, up to 150 leading politicians and business people are to gather in a ski resort in Switzerland for four days of discussion about the future of the world.

Previous attendees of the group, which meets once a year in a five-star hotel, are said to have included Bill Clinton, Prince Charles and Peter Mandelson, as well as dozens of company CEOs.

First meeting in 1954, the aim was to shore up US-European relations and prevent another world war. Now under the group's leadership of former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and one-time EU vice president, Viscount Davignon, the aim is purportedly to allow Western elites to share ideas.

But conspiracy theorists have accused it of everything from deliberately engineering the credit crunch to planning to kill 80% of the world population. Longtime opponent and US radio host Alex Jones, heckled one meeting through a megaphone: "We know you are ruthless. We know you are evil. We respect your dark power."

Part of the reason for alarm is the group's secretive working methods. Names of attendees are not usually released before the conference, meetings are closed to the public and the media, and no press releases are issued.

The gnashing of teeth over Bilderberg is ridiculous, says Times columnist David Aaronovitch. "It's really an occasional supper club for the rich and powerful," he argues.

Denis Healey, co-founder of the group, told the journalist Jon Ronson in his book Them that people overlook the practical benefits of informal networking. "Bilderberg is the most useful international group I ever attended," he told him. "The confidentiality enabled people to speak honestly without fear of repercussions."

So why do groups like this cause so much alarm? Aaronovitch, who wrote the 2009 book Voodoo Histories, says plots to install a new world order have traditionally been a conspiracy fantasy. "They tend to believe that everything true, local and national is under threat from cosmopolitan, international forces often linked to financial capitalism and therefore, also often, to Jewish interests."

Secret cabals extend beyond the Bilderberg Group. The Illuminati, which derives from a 16th Century Bavarian secret society, is alleged to be an all powerful secret society, including US presidents, that has controlled major world events. The Freemasons - famous for their peculiar handshakes - is a secret fraternity society that has become more open in recent years after extensive criticism.

The charter of Hamas - the Islamist party governing Gaza - asserts that the Freemasons are in league with the Jews and those unlikely bully boys - the Rotary Club - to undermine Palestine.

John Hamill, spokesman for freemasonry's governing body in England and Wales says the organisation is aware of Hamas's allegation.

"There's no truth in it, freemasonry is apolitical. It probably arises because one of our ceremonies is about the story of King Solomon's Temple. For some reason Islamic governments translate that into Zionism."

In fact, many conspiracy theories surrounding cabals hint at an anti-Semitic worldview. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was a forged document, probably created by agents of Tsarist Russia, which appeared to show a Jewish plot to take over the world.

Despite being proved to be a fraud, the idea has been kept alive by anti-Semites and has spawned later versions. One of those, the Zionist Occupational Government, argues that countries have puppet governments but that the real power is held by Jewish interests.

More recently, former sports journalist David Icke has proclaimed that the world is governed by alien, reptilian shape shifters. In other words, giant lizards.

There is obviously no right-wing monopoly on conspiracy theories. During the Monica Lewinsky scandal, Hilary Clinton blamed a "vast right-wing conspiracy" for her husband's predicament. And more recently, some on the left have argued that the 9/11 attacks were organised by President Bush's inner circle in order to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

The politics of cabals has always been pretty muddled, says James McConnachie, co-author of the Rough Guide to Conspiracy Theories. These groups allow protesters to project their own fears onto them.

In the US, the most extreme fear over Bilderberg is of a hidden cabal run by the European Union and threatening American freedoms. In Europe, the view is often of a free market elite trying to push through a right-wing agenda.

"Conspiracy theories are quite blind to conventional notions of left and right," says McConnachie. "The left is organising an international government. Meanwhile, global capitalism on the right may be doing the same thing by different means."

For Aaronovitch what often triggers widespread cabal theories are moments of great upheaval.


"It happens a lot when times are changing significantly. Whether, oddly, they are changing for better as well as for the worse. Why did McCarthyism happen at the time when US economy was growing faster than at any time in history?"

Society was in flux, the economy expanding rapidly and millions of servicemen were coming back from the war.

It's not just the about social context. Some people are more susceptible than others to believing in wacky cabals, says Prof Chris French, of Goldsmith College's psychology department. "It's people who tend to be alienated by the mainstream, who feel powerless. They have a need to have a sense of control."

Not only do they not trust the government, they tend not to trust their neighbours either. And in the need for control, there may be links to the roots of religious belief, he says.

The conspiracy theorists may get overexcited but they have a point, says Prof Andrew Kakabadse, co-author of new book Bilderberg People.

Bilderberg is named after the Dutch hotel where the first meeting took place in 1954
The initial focus was the state of the trans-Atlantic alliance and the problems facing Europe and the US
British Labour politician Denis Healey was a founding member
An invitation list is compiled each year by a steering committee
About 120 people from North America and Europe are invited. About one-third are from government and politics, and two-thirds from finance, industry, labour, education and communications
Meetings often feature future political leaders shortly before they become household names. Bill Clinton went in 1991 while still governor of Arkansas, Tony Blair was there two years later while an opposition MP
The group has genuine power that far outranks the World Economic Forum, which meets in Davos, he argues. And with no transparency, it is easy to see why people are worried about its influence.

"It's much smarter than conspiracy," says Prof Kakabadse. "This is moulding the way people think so that it seems like there's no alternative to what is happening."

The agenda the group has is to bring together the political elites on both right and left, let them mix in relaxed, luxurious surroundings with business leaders, and let the ideas fizz.

It may seem like a glorified dinner party but that is to miss the point. "When you've been to enough dinner parties you see a theme emerging," he says. The theme at Bilderberg is to bolster a consensus around free market Western capitalism and its interests around the globe, he says.

"Is this all leading to the start of the ruling the world idea? In one sense yes. There's a very strong move to have a One World government in the mould of free market Western capitalism."

Degree of nefariousness

Conventional critiques of alienated people seeking order in a chaotic world may well be true. But there's more to it than that, McConnachie argues.

"The other explanation is more dangerous. That they are precisely right - they just over-egg the way they articulate it."

The Bilderberg Group matches up to how a global conspiracy would work - a secretive body attempting to shape the direction of the world, he suggests.

"The only difference is the degree of nefariousness," he says. "They tend to see this cabal as outright evil. When things are more nuanced than that."

For all the tales of lizards running the world, we all owe a debt to conspiracy theorists, McConnachie argues.

"Occasionally you have to give credit to conspiracy theorists who raise issues that the mainstream press has ignored. It's only recently that the media has picked up on the Bilderbergers. Would the media be running stories if there weren't these wild allegations flying around?"

But Aaronovitch disagrees. Believing in cabals leads to certain groups being victimised and obstructs a rational view of the world.

"To have a strong belief in the Bilderberg Group means believing in a fantasy," he says. "It suggests that there are people - like God - acting as a higher power. And it replaces the intolerable thought that there's nothing at work at all, that the world is chaotic. It may be a form of therapy but it has people believing in an anti-scientific message."

Interesting snippet about a favourite theme of conspiracies blaming the Jewish diaspora, - deriving from some early Soviet propaganda.

Any one heard from David Icke recently?

Tylerdurden
06-08-2011, 02:08 PM
Jeez, even got the hint of anti-Semitic in that post. I will forward my recommendation for your employment to the SPLC.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czq4E2HcrUg&feature=player_embedded

wardd
06-08-2011, 02:13 PM
we need a secret poorerberg meeting

i think the last one was held in france

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
06-08-2011, 02:31 PM
The fact that Bburg exists doesn't surprise me. What does surprise me is that representatives from major news corporations attend, and then limit their reporting to "A meeting took place, and that's all we're going to tell you."

Peerie Maa
06-08-2011, 03:20 PM
Jeez, even got the hint of anti-Semitic in that post. I will forward my recommendation for your employment to the SPLC.


Pl tell me what is the SPLC, just so's I know whether to be offended or not.

Tylerdurden
06-08-2011, 06:31 PM
Pl tell me what is the SPLC, just so's I know whether to be offended or not.

Southern Poverty Law Center, once an organization dedicated to helping others and like every bureaucratic organization over time corrupted to only help themselves.
They tend to squelch free expression and speech too by minimizing anyone who opposes them.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-08-2011, 08:47 PM
I am Jack's smirking revenge.
Be sure to tell your wife I said hello.


I am Jack.Location:Jack's lower abdomen.Interests:Jack's raging hormones.Occupation:Trolling.

Tylerdurden
06-10-2011, 03:17 PM
Bilderberg 2011: Full Official Attendee List (http://www.activistpost.com/2011/06/bilderberg-2011-full-official-attendee.html)


Thanks to the fantastic work of Bilderberg activists, journalists and the Swiss media, we have now been able to obtain the full official list of 2011 Bilderberg attendees. Routinely, some members request that their names be kept off the roster so there will be additional Bilderbergers in attendance.

Infowars will be on the scene identifying other attendees not on the list.

Belgium
Coene, Luc, Governor, National Bank of BelgiumDavignon, Etienne, Minister of StateLeysen, Thomas, Chairman, Umicore

China
Fu, Ying, Vice Minister of Foreign AffairsHuang, Yiping, Professor of Economics, China Center for Economic Research, Peking University

Denmark
Eldrup, Anders, CEO, DONG Energy
Federspiel, Ulrik, Vice President, Global Affairs, Haldor Topsře A/S
Schütze, Peter, Member of the Executive Management, Nordea Bank AB

Germany
Ackermann, Josef, Chairman of the Management Board and the Group Executive Committee, Deutsche Bank
Enders, Thomas, CEO, Airbus SAS
Löscher, Peter, President and CEO, Siemens AG
Nass, Matthias, Chief International Correspondent, Die Zeit
Steinbrück, Peer, Member of the Bundestag; Former Minister of Finance

Finland
Apunen, Matti, Director, Finnish Business and Policy Forum EVA
Johansson, Ole, Chairman, Confederation of the Finnish Industries EK
Ollila, Jorma, Chairman, Royal Dutch Shell
Pentikäinen, Mikael, Publisher and Senior Editor-in-Chief, Helsingin Sanomat

France
Baverez, Nicolas, Partner, Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Bazire, Nicolas, Managing Director, Groupe Arnault /LVMH
Castries, Henri de, Chairman and CEO, AXA
Lévy, Maurice, Chairman and CEO, Publicis Groupe S.A.
Montbrial, Thierry de, President, French Institute for International Relations
Roy, Olivier, Professor of Social and Political Theory, European University Institute

Great Britain
Agius, Marcus, Chairman, Barclays PLC
Flint, Douglas J., Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings
Kerr, John, Member, House of Lords; Deputy Chairman, Royal Dutch Shell
Lambert, Richard, Independent Non-Executive Director, Ernst & Young
Mandelson, Peter, Member, House of Lords; Chairman, Global Counsel
Micklethwait, John, Editor-in-Chief, The Economist
Osborne, George, Chancellor of the Exchequer
Stewart, Rory, Member of Parliament
Taylor, J. Martin, Chairman, Syngenta International AG

Greece
David, George A., Chairman, Coca-Cola H.B.C. S.A.
Hardouvelis, Gikas A., Chief Economist and Head of Research, Eurobank EFG
Papaconstantinou, George, Minister of Finance
Tsoukalis, Loukas, President, ELIAMEP Grisons

International Organizations
Almunia, Joaquín, Vice President, European Commission
Daele, Frans van, Chief of Staff to the President of the European Council
Kroes, Neelie, Vice President, European Commission; Commissioner for Digital Agenda
Lamy, Pascal, Director General, World Trade Organization
Rompuy, Herman van, President, European Council
Sheeran, Josette, Executive Director, United Nations World Food Programme
Solana Madariaga, Javier, President, ESADEgeo Center for Global Economy and Geopolitics
Trichet, Jean-Claude, President, European Central Bank
Zoellick, Robert B., President, The World Bank Group

Ireland
Gallagher, Paul, Senior Counsel; Former Attorney General
McDowell, Michael, Senior Counsel, Law Library; Former Deputy Prime Minister
Sutherland, Peter D., Chairman, Goldman Sachs International

Italy
Bernabč, Franco, CEO, Telecom Italia SpA
Elkann, John, Chairman, Fiat S.p.A.
Monti, Mario, President, Univers Commerciale Luigi Bocconi
Scaroni, Paolo, CEO, Eni S.p.A.
Tremonti, Giulio, Minister of Economy and Finance

Canada
Carney, Mark J., Governor, Bank of Canada
Clark, Edmund, President and CEO, TD Bank Financial Group
McKenna, Frank, Deputy Chair, TD Bank Financial Group
Orbinksi, James, Professor of Medicine and Political Science, University of Toronto
Prichard, J. Robert S., Chair, Torys LLP
Reisman, Heather, Chair and CEO, Indigo Books & Music Inc. Center, Brookings Institution

Netherlands
Bolland, Marc J., Chief Executive, Marks and Spencer Group plc
Chavannes, Marc E., Political Columnist, NRC Handelsblad; Professor of Journalism
Halberstadt, Victor, Professor of Economics, Leiden University; Former Honorary Secretary General of Bilderberg Meetings
H.M. the Queen of the Netherlands
Rosenthal, Uri, Minister of Foreign Affairs
Winter, Jaap W., Partner, De Brauw Blackstone Westbroek

Norway
Myklebust, Egil, Former Chairman of the Board of Directors SAS, sk Hydro ASA
H.R.H. Crown Prince Haakon of Norway
Ottersen, Ole Petter, Rector, University of Oslo
Solberg, Erna, Leader of the Conservative Party

Austria
Bronner, Oscar, CEO and Publisher, Standard Medien AG
Faymann, Werner, Federal Chancellor
Rothensteiner, Walter, Chairman of the Board, Raiffeisen Zentralbank Österreich AG
Scholten, Rudolf, Member of the Board of Executive Directors, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG

Portugal
Balsemăo, Francisco Pinto, Chairman and CEO, IMPRESA, S.G.P.S.; Former Prime Minister
Ferreira Alves, Clara, CEO, Claref LDA; writer
Nogueira Leite, António, Member of the Board, José de Mello Investimentos, SGPS, SA

Sweden
Mordashov, Alexey A., CEO, Severstal
Bildt, Carl, Minister of Foreign Affairs
Björling, Ewa, Minister for Trade
Wallenberg, Jacob, Chairman, Investor AB

Switzerland
Brabeck-Letmathe, Peter, Chairman, Nestlé S.A.
Groth, Hans, Senior Director, Healthcare Policy & Market Access, Oncology Business Unit, Pfizer Europe
Janom Steiner, Barbara, Head of the Department of Justice, Security and Health, Canton
Kudelski, André, Chairman and CEO, Kudelski Group SA
Leuthard, Doris, Federal Councillor
Schmid, Martin, President, Government of the Canton Grisons
Schweiger, Rolf, Ständerat
Soiron, Rolf, Chairman of the Board, Holcim Ltd., Lonza Ltd.
Vasella, Daniel L., Chairman, Novartis AG
Witmer, Jürg, Chairman, Givaudan SA and Clariant AG

Spain
Cebrián, Juan Luis, CEO, PRISA
Cospedal, María Dolores de, Secretary General, Partido Popular
León Gross, Bernardino, Secretary General of the Spanish Presidency
Nin Génova, Juan María, President and CEO, La Caixa
H.M. Queen Sofia of Spain

Turkey
Ciliv, Süreyya, CEO, Turkcell Iletisim Hizmetleri A.S.
Gülek Domac, Tayyibe, Former Minister of State
Koç, Mustafa V., Chairman, Koç Holding A.S.
Pekin, Sefika, Founding Partner, Pekin & Bayar Law Firm

USA
Alexander, Keith B., Commander, USCYBERCOM; Director, National Security Agency
Altman, Roger C., Chairman, Evercore Partners Inc.
Bezos, Jeff, Founder and CEO, Amazon.com
Collins, Timothy C., CEO, Ripplewood Holdings, LLC
Feldstein, Martin S., George F. Baker Professor of Economics, Harvard University
Hoffman, Reid, Co-founder and Executive Chairman, LinkedIn
Hughes, Chris R., Co-founder, Facebook
Jacobs, Kenneth M., Chairman & CEO, Lazard
Johnson, James A., Vice Chairman, Perseus, LLC
Jordan, Jr., Vernon E., Senior Managing Director, Lazard Frčres & Co. LLC
Keane, John M., Senior Partner, SCP Partners; General, US Army, Retired
Kissinger, Henry A., Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.
Kleinfeld, Klaus, Chairman and CEO, Alcoa
Kravis, Henry R., Co-Chairman and co-CEO, Kohlberg Kravis, Roberts & Co.
Kravis, Marie-Josée, Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute, Inc.
Li, Cheng, Senior Fellow and Director of Research, John L. Thornton China Center, Brookings Institution
Mundie, Craig J., Chief Research and Strategy Officer, Microsoft Corporation
Orszag, Peter R., Vice Chairman, Citigroup Global Markets, Inc.
Perle, Richard N., Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research
Rockefeller, David, Former Chairman, Chase Manhattan Bank
Rose, Charlie, Executive Editor and Anchor, Charlie Rose
Rubin, Robert E., Co-Chairman, Council on Foreign Relations; Former Secretary of the Treasury
Schmidt, Eric, Executive Chairman, Google Inc.
Steinberg, James B., Deputy Secretary of State
Thiel, Peter A., President, Clarium Capital Management, LLC
Varney, Christine A., Assistant Attorney General for Antitrust
Vaupel, James W., Founding Director, Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research
Warsh, Kevin, Former Governor, Federal Reserve Board
Wolfensohn, James D., Chairman, Wolfensohn & Company, LLC

Tylerdurden
06-10-2011, 03:17 PM
BREAKING: Bilderberg Under Pressure -- Top Swiss Politicians Ready to Enter Meeting and Demand an End to Secrecy, Call for Arrest of Henry Kissinger (http://www.activistpost.com/2011/06/breaking-bilderberg-under-seige-top.html)

Tylerdurden
06-10-2011, 03:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb-RBGQdYLs

Tylerdurden
06-10-2011, 03:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVanxgDZrUI

Peerie Maa
06-10-2011, 03:34 PM
Southern Poverty Law Center, once an organization dedicated to helping others and like every bureaucratic organization over time corrupted to only help themselves.
They tend to squelch free expression and speech too by minimizing anyone who opposes them.

OK, so I am offended. Now justify the slur, if you can.

wardd
06-10-2011, 03:38 PM
td have you cleaned the dust commies from under your bed and out of the closet?

Peerie Maa
06-10-2011, 03:45 PM
"untie?"

Can you actually envisage conspiracy theorists uniting?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-10-2011, 03:46 PM
I spent two hours yesterday afternoon at a secret meeting in the City of London offices of one of the world's largest insurance companies.

I cannot tell you who was there or who said what, so this gathering is even more secretive than the Bilderberg Group.

I can tell you that the meeting contained representatives of several very large shipping companies, underwriters and spooks, and that we were discussing military information of a sensitive nature, concerning a part of the Third World. As a direct consequence of something I learned, I changed a policy and gave instructions to that effect when I put my Blackberry back on.

We were discussing Somali piracy, under the Chatham House Rule.

Peerie Maa
06-10-2011, 03:48 PM
I spent two hours yesterday afternoon at a secret meeting in the City of London offices of one of the world's largest insurance companies.

I cannot tell you who was there or who said what, so this gathering is even more secretive than the Bilderberg Group.

I can tell you that the meeting contained representatives of several very large shipping companies, underwriters and spooks, and that we were discussing military information of a sensitive nature, concerning a part of the Third World. As a direct consequence of something I learned, I changed a policy and gave instructions to that effect when I put my Blackberry back on.

We were discussing Somali piracy, under the Chatham House Rule.

And now some one is going to come to your house and kill you.;)

Tylerdurden
06-10-2011, 03:49 PM
OK, so I am offended. Now justify the slur, if you can.

Your a little late? Did you have to sleep on it? You may be offended if you wish, here in this country there is a right to free speech but nowhere written a right to not be offended.

To explain my reference it has to do with and individual or group starting out with the best of intentions, doing great works but eventually rusting and become as corrupt as their surroundings. In application to this circumstance I believe your a good person but in time corrupted by the flag and your beliefs in a system therefore needing to mock anything contrary to that ideology as sort of a fear mechanism. Not really meant to be offense, just an observation. Hope that clears things up for you and please have a pleasant weekend.

Peerie Maa
06-10-2011, 04:10 PM
Your a little late? Did you have to sleep on it? Time zones my dear boy
You may be offended if you wish, here in this country there is a right to free speech but nowhere written a right to not be offended.

To explain my reference it has to do with and individual or group starting out with the best of intentions, doing great works but eventually rusting and become as corrupt as their surroundings. Understood that, you wrote with sufficient clarity for your meaning to cross the pond
In application to this circumstance I believe your a good person but in time corrupted by the flag and your beliefs in a system therefore needing to mock anything contrary to that ideology as sort of a fear mechanism. You may have made the mistake that my highlighting the promulgation of an anti Semitic lie expressed an opinion on Semitism. In fact I was expressing an opinion on conspiracy theorists.
Not really meant to be offense, just an observation. Hope that clears things up for you and please have a pleasant weekend.

johnw
06-10-2011, 04:19 PM
Pl tell me what is the SPLC, just so's I know whether to be offended or not.

Actually, the Southern Poverty Law Center is an excellent organization that anyone should be proud to associated with. You should have known that from the fact that Mark doesn't like them.

Peerie Maa
06-10-2011, 04:26 PM
Actually, the Southern Poverty Law Center is an excellent organization that anyone should be proud to associated with. You should have known that from the fact that Mark doesn't like them.

However, we now know that Mark was using his perception of them to have a poke at me. We shall see if Mark persists.

johnw
06-10-2011, 11:54 PM
However, we now know that Mark was using his perception of them to have a poke at me. We shall see if Mark persists.

Well, you can't control what Mark does, can you? All you can do is deal with reality, which in political matters is outside Mark's skill set, and no doubt within yours.

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
06-11-2011, 12:21 AM
Actually, the Southern Poverty Law Center is an excellent organization that anyone should be proud to associated with. You should have known that from the fact that Mark doesn't like them.

Are you aware that the SPLC recommended that war veterans, and people belonging to right-wing and other libertarian leaning political groups be classified as potential terrorists? Of course non-veterans and citizens of all political persuasions from the center-right to far left need not be worried about being subjected to the full force of the Patriot Act in the SPLC's opinion.

I bring it up because this is one of the few things of substance they've done lately that I really agree with. I actually sent them a donation check after hearing about all this wonderful activism they were doing. Advocating for the poor and disenfranchised is all well and good, but if you're not trying to sick the NSA on your political counterparts, you're just not doing your job as an advocacy organization.

johnw
06-11-2011, 12:45 AM
Are you aware that the SPLC recommended that war veterans, and people belonging to right-wing and other libertarian leaning political groups be classified as potential terrorists? Of course non-veterans and citizens of all political persuasions from the center-right to far left need not be worried about being subjected to the full force of the Patriot Act in the SPLC's opinion.

I bring it up because this is one of the few things of substance they've done lately that I really agree with. I actually sent them a donation check after hearing about all this wonderful activism they were doing. Advocating for the poor and disenfranchised is all well and good, but if you're not trying to sick the NSA on your political counterparts, you're just not doing your job as an advocacy organization.

Give us a link, troll. In all seriousness, it's quite possible they've done things I disagree with, and I'd like to know more about what you're saying.

I'll make it easy for you. Here's a list of people they are calling terrorists. Perhaps you can tell me which ones are unjustly maligned.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/terror-from-the-right

WX
06-11-2011, 02:12 AM
In my book Kissinger is a war criminal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger#East_Timor

http://www.zpub.com/un/wanted-hkiss.html

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
06-11-2011, 02:40 AM
Give us a link...


Search keywords: SPLC, libertarian, potential terrorists. There was a veritable $hitstorm in the blogosphere over this, so there should be no shortage of articles using related searches.

http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2010/04/splc-now-targeting-libertarians-as.html

http://www.wnd.com/images/dhs-rightwing-extremism.pdf

You'll have to donate and subscribe to the newsletter like I did to view the full issue here:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/summer

I'd tell you what it said, but I don't want to give free content away on the internet without doing my part to maintain the proper pay scheme. It's not publicly available anymore.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-11-2011, 04:38 AM
Getting back to the Bilderberg Group, there is an acid test:

Any organisation that had Dennis Healey involved at the outset is totally above board.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a Silly Billy.

ishmael
06-11-2011, 05:19 AM
"I am Jack's smirking revenge.
Be sure to tell your wife I said hello.


I am Jack.Location:Jack's lower abdomen.Interests:Jack's raging hormones.Occupation:Trolling."


How did I get pulled into this?

Do powerful people sit down to lunch and take powerful decisions? Choices that change how the world works? No doubt in my mind they do.

I don't see it as an evil cabal. Sometimes evil people get the upper hand, and the Volk then say no. The same struggle it has always been.

johnw
06-11-2011, 05:08 PM
Is this really the article you're worried about?

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/summer/meet-the-patriots

The word "terrorist" does not appear in that article. It does, however, appear in the subhead for the Libertarian Republican article you linked to. Perhaps they, and you, made the link to terrorism because the Patriot movement is linked by its beliefs to the militia movement. You know, like these guys:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/28/arrests-alleged-militia-activity-midwest/

Your other link doesn't lead to the Southern Poverty Law Center at all. It's World Net Daily's link to the Department of Homeland Security report on right-wing extremism. If you're worried that the DHS might be keeping an eye on would-be Timothy McVeigh types, don't. DHS gutted its domestic terrorism analysis unit because of that report. This should make you feel better:

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2011/06/07/dhs-gutten-domestic-terrorism-analytical-unit-after-report-leaked/

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
06-11-2011, 05:43 PM
I'm not worried about anything, John. They hubub on the intertubes about the SPLC article was because they're calling out some of their fellow citizens, writing up intelligence briefings on them, labeling them as radicals, and putting them on the same level as militia members because of their political beliefs. In case you hadn't noticed, words like "domestic extremist", and "radical" are being used as euphemisms for "potential terrorist" these days. That's not something people on that list likely appreciated.

Of course I like the SPLC, but their critics say that an organization who's mission is to advocate for the poor has no business vilifying people because they hold political views different from those of the SPLC.

johnw
06-11-2011, 06:24 PM
I'm not worried about anything, John. They hubub on the intertubes about the SPLC article was because they're calling out some of their fellow citizens, writing up intelligence briefings on them, labeling them as radicals, and putting them on the same level as militia members because of their political beliefs. In case you hadn't noticed, words like "domestic extremist", and "radical" are being used as euphemisms for "potential terrorist" these days. That's not something people on that list likely appreciated.

Of course I like the SPLC, but their critics say that an organization who's mission is to advocate for the poor has no business vilifying people because they hold political views different from those of the SPLC.

Funny, they never claimed to be the Salvation Army -- in fact, they came out of a political struggle, so I would expect them to be politically engaged. From their website:


The Southern Poverty Law Center is a nonprofit civil rights organization dedicated to fighting hate and bigotry, and to seeking justice for the most vulnerable members of society.

Founded by civil rights lawyers Morris Dees and Joseph Levin Jr. in 1971, the SPLC is internationally known for tracking and exposing the activities of hate groups. Our innovative Teaching Tolerance program produces and distributes – free of charge – documentary films, books, lesson plans and other materials that promote tolerance and respect in our nation’s schools.

We are based in Montgomery, Ala., the birthplace of the modern civil rights movement, and have offices in Atlanta, New Orleans, Miami, Fla., and Jackson, Miss.

As for things being "euphemisms for 'potential terrorists' these days" do keep in mind, terrorists are not the main concern of the SPLC. They are far more interested in hate groups, some of which are violent, most of which are not. Their concern is the political engagement of these groups, primarily how they push racism into our national conversation. If racist groups are violent, then that's their concern, but they are concerned with hate groups that are not violent if they are politically engaged. I'm sure many of these hate groups would like to shut the SPLC up, but it's not going to happen, no matter how many tantrums they throw.

Take a look at the groups they are interested in:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups

They certainly don't call the Family Research Council terrorists, but they do note that FRC is politically engaged in fighting against hate crime laws and anti-bullying programs. Yes, it's labeled "intelligence," but it's not labeled intelligence about terrorists. Now, given that they started out with the civil rights movement, surely it is within their purview to keep tabs on the political activities of those who oppose civil rights legislation and efforts to keep people from beating up on people because of what they are.

I do find it interesting that you can only make the link to your original claim through what you suppose they meant, not from things they've actually said. It would appear the proper response to your original statement:


Are you aware that the SPLC recommended that war veterans, and people belonging to right-wing and other libertarian leaning political groups be classified as potential terrorists?

would be no, and you are not aware of that either, because they don't appear to have said anything of the kind. You are mistaking your own fantasy for "awareness."

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
06-11-2011, 06:48 PM
I'm just glad they're keeping tabs on people like this hate monger:



'Needle of Estrogen'
Catherine Bleish, 26
http://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_detail/images/media/Catherine_Bleish.jpgCatherine Bleish, one of the few female leaders in the resurgent Patriot movement, runs the Liberty Restoration Project and has become a popular speaker on the Patriot circuit.
"It's quite frightening the amount of power and authority that our government has assumed for themselves," Bleish told the Intelligence Report. "They say, 'We are the Supreme Being, we have the guns, we are going to do it our way.'"
Bleish, of St. Louis, Mo., speaks passionately about the anger that's fueling the movement. "It's so hard to start a small business, and once you start one, it's hard to keep it open. My parents are being audited for the past six years, while [Treasury Secretary] Tim Geithner, who doesn't pay his taxes, now gets to oversee the IRS," she said. "People are losing their homes. People are losing their jobs. People are frustrated and looking for answers."
Like many other Patriot leaders, Bleish charges that the government is behind these economic woes. "The dollar has been systematically destroyed. And that is not the American people's doing. That is the central bank. The central bankers, what they do is they go from country to country, and they destroy currency and bring themselves lots of power and lots of wealth."
Though Bleish said no one in the movement with whom she's worked wants violence, she added that people will be driven to defend themselves if the country continues on its current course. "The actions of our federal government [are] going to create violence. And my goal ... is to try and stop it peacefully before it gets to that point. I'm trying to follow the channels that are still afforded to me to talk to people face to face. But they're going to try and take away my ability to communicate with people of a like mind-set."
Bleish has taken part in key Patriot events, attending the seminal May 2009 Jekyll Island meeting that helped lay the groundwork for the resurgence of the movement. She also spoke at the Freedom 21 conference in Oklahoma City last August. And she was the main organizer for the Midwest Liberty Fest in Illinois last October.
But it's not all thankless work: A glam shot of Bleish was featured in the 2009-2010 Ladies of Liberty Alliance calendar. "Many women involved in the liberty movement have experienced the frustrating feeling of isolation when they look around and realize they are just a needle of estrogen in a haystack of testosterone," she wrote last August. "The Ladies of Liberty Alliance is a brand new organization working to end that feeling of isolation forever!"

She, along with their list of tax protesters, Constitution party members, and the rest of those whackos are every bit as dangerous as the hutari militia folks.

johnw
06-11-2011, 11:55 PM
I'm just glad they're keeping tabs on people like this hate monger:



She, along with their list of tax protesters, Constitution party members, and the rest of those whackos are every bit as dangerous as the hutari militia folks.

Thanks for telling me, I wouldn't have known it from reading that article, which says nothing of the kind.

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
06-12-2011, 12:44 AM
Thanks for telling me, I wouldn't have known it from reading that article, which says nothing of the kind.

Well, other than the intro, no, it didn't.


In the last year and a half, militias (read: armed potential terrorists if you ask DHS these days) and the larger antigovernment "Patriot" movement (read: almost as scary as militias) have exploded, accompanied by the rapid expansion of other sectors of the radical right (read: they're frickin nuts!!1!) .... here's a list of the 35 most important ones: Granted, some of the 35 has said some weird stuff, others were included for attending meetings which the article described as being very important to the resurgence of the militia movement. All of them were painted with the same brush as militia members whether they had anything to do with that stuff or not. I can't lie, that's the way I like my journalism; with a heavy sprinkling of bias.

Edit: I might be wrong, perhaps that piece was written with no intention of fear-mongering. I hope not though.

johnw
06-12-2011, 01:25 AM
Here's the actual intro, minus the words you put in their mouths:


In the last year and a half, militias and the larger antigovernment "Patriot" movement have exploded, accompanied by the rapid expansion of other sectors of the radical right. This spectacular growth (see timeline (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/summer/meet-the-patriots/the-patriot-movemen)) is the result of several factors, including anger over major political, demographic and economic changes in America, along with the popularization of radical ideas and conspiracy theories by ostensibly mainstream politicians and media commentators (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/summer/meet-the-patriots/the-enablers).


Although the resurgence of the so-called Patriots — people who generally believe that the federal government is an evil entity that is engaged in a secret conspiracy to impose martial law, herd those who resist into concentration camps, and force the United States into a socialistic "New World Order" — also has been propelled by people who were key players in the first wave of the Patriot movement in the mid–1990s, there are also a large number of new players. What follows are profiles of 35 individuals at the heart of the resurgent movement:


Now let's compare that to what you said, that I was responding to:


She, along with their list of tax protesters, Constitution party members, and the rest of those whackos are every bit as dangerous as the hutari militia folks.

I notice that you've backed off considerably, since your original claim:


Are you aware that the SPLC recommended that war veterans, and people belonging to right-wing and other libertarian leaning political groups be classified as potential terrorists?

Was impossible to support with anything they'd actually said.

And even your new position overlooks the fact that the make a distinction between militias and the "much larger" Patriot movement. The reason, wee troll, that they make this distinction is that they do not consider these groups the same.

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
06-12-2011, 01:57 AM
Dangit, John. You've forced me to admit it, I've actually changed my mind a little bit after reading what you've posted.

That said, the SPLC's descriptions were stretching more than a little bit on about half of those guys... "this constitution party member attended a meeting once which was also attended by some militia guys..."

johnw
06-13-2011, 12:32 PM
Dangit, John. You've forced me to admit it, I've actually changed my mind a little bit after reading what you've posted.

That said, the SPLC's descriptions were stretching more than a little bit on about half of those guys... "this constitution party member attended a meeting once which was also attended by some militia guys..."

And I agree that they were stretching it with that description. Wow, this is a first for the bilge!

Tylerdurden
06-13-2011, 01:12 PM
Horses mouth.... http://www.splcenter.org/what-we-do/hate-and-extremism/law-enforcement

The Southern Poverty Law Center (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/news/splc-urges-dhs-to-reassess-resources-after-key-analyst-reveals-unit-on-domestic-terror-was-scaled-back?ondntsrc=MBQ110670HTW&newsletter=HW060911) is getting back in the Homeland Security Department’s face again about how right wing terrorists are a bigger threat (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=9619) than anyone else;
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=23829

http://www.splcenter.org/publications/splc-report-return-of-the-militias/the-second-wave

Tylerdurden
06-13-2011, 01:15 PM
Stewart Rhodes: It's Official, Southern Poverty Law Center Is Now Part of DHS!

http://voices.mirocommunity.org/video/460/stewart-rhodes-its-official-so


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZyj5TykGxE&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8jrrdJ6cBo&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWW0fN5_E74&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzMHVP7kdOQ&feature=player_embedded

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
06-13-2011, 01:20 PM
And I agree that they were stretching it with that description. Wow, this is a first for the bilge!

We should celebrate. I'll send someone to fetch us cake.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oRiB8ULVp2w/SzIeisgO9eI/AAAAAAAABrw/CjXP36Rtf7k/s400/two-to-go-white-throated-guenon-stealing-cake-BINNS-IMG_3298-copy.jpg

johnw
06-13-2011, 01:54 PM
Um...aren't those his poo-throwing hands?

Tylerdurden
06-13-2011, 02:05 PM
Um...aren't those his poo-throwing hands? Throw some John, Maybe you should watch this first.


Leaked Pentagon Video – DOD Officials Discuss Eliminating Islam Religion By Using Virus And Vaccine To Manipulate DNA (http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/06/13/video-dod-officials-discuss-eliminating-religion-virus-vaccine-manipulate-dna-26671/)

Gerarddm
06-13-2011, 02:12 PM
If that Bilderberg attendees list is accurate, I am interested that there are so many Queens attending, only one King. No PMs or Presidents.

Surely not QEII herself? Doesn't Lyndon LaRouche think she is Arachne herself personified?

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
06-13-2011, 02:41 PM
Um...aren't those his poo-throwing hands?

Yeah, they are. I'll understand if you're squeamish, it's cool, that just means more cake for me.

johnw
06-13-2011, 07:15 PM
Yeah, they are. I'll understand if you're squeamish, it's cool, that just means more cake for me.

Enjoy it, but stay away from the "fudge."

HGreeley
06-13-2011, 07:18 PM
I feel like you men could be more supportive.

Tylerdurden
06-14-2011, 05:48 AM
I feel like you men could be more supportive.

No, they are pretty upset that the more they attack the more they are proven wrong. I think they are still stinging from a couple of years ago when they went after me for posting about plans for a North American Union (look it up its funny, same clowns) Now the Wiki leaks has published cables from multiple departments including state discussing exactly what I was posting about and they look like fools once again. Clear unafraid minds are not spurred to attack information without doing the research.
Not these guys though, Like vigilantes with torches the volantary ignorant march on. :)