Ross M
11-18-2002, 06:42 PM
Author Topic: Your Ideal Cruising Boat
Scott Rosen
posted 07-12-2000 01:29 PM
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What qualities do you like in a cruising boat?
Some folks say they need a fast boat that sails well to windward.
Other folks (like me) think that since you spend most of your time at anchor or at a dock, you need a boat that's comfortable to live on. I prefer sea-kindliness and ease of handling over speed. I'd rather arrive a little later, but relaxed and dry. But I bet some of you see it the other way.
Here in the LI Sound, the summer winds are very light and fluky. No matter how fast your boat sails, you'll spend a fair amount of time under power getting to your destination, so I like a boat that has a big enough engine to cruise her at hull speed.
I don't like electronic gizmos and complicated machinery. The simpler the better. I try to have plenty of redundancy in all of my systems, and I like to be able to fix and repair things myself--can't do that with electronics. For example, I'd never get an electric windlass (even if I could afford one). What has stopped me from getting radar and an electric auto-pilot is all of the extra harware and wiring that I'd have to install and the knowledge that if they broke, they'd be difficult and expensive to repair. I also find that the more I use the gizmos, the less I appreciate the basic surroundings. I got a handheld GPS a few years ago and I found that whenever I turned it on, I paid more attention to the dam* unit then to basic navigation aids like buoys, wind direction, clouds, landmarks, etc. In other words, I spent more time looking down than up. (Why is sailing better than golf? Because in golf you're always looking down, in sailing you're looking up. It's an approach to life.) Now, on a clear day, I don't even bother to turn on the GPS or the depth sounder. I use my eyes and ears and other senses, as sailors have done forever.
Thought anyone?
TomRobb
posted 07-12-2000 02:52 PM
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QEII?
Ian McColgin
posted 07-12-2000 03:26 PM
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I'm with Scott on the KISS approach. Everything breaks once a year so if you have 365 things on your boat, you'll have a repair a day.
There's always room to temper reason with love. I got Goblin because she was more beautiful than the other contender for my affection, the truely great ocean yawl Cimeron. I got Granna when the more rational choise would have been an old Freedom 40, but I'd dreamed of a MarcoPolo for almost 30 years at that point.
I place more emphasis on good sea berths than most, since it's easier to make a sea berth habitable in harbor than it is to make a harbor berth safe when the boat's jumping.
I place a lot of value on the view from the cockpit, not just good visibility but also seeing the pretty things on your boat.
I want the boat to be if not down right beautiful - only I argue that the marcopolo is beautiful - but at least purposful and healthy looking. Bennytubs just don't make it, even with shag carpet and fuzzy dice.
So ideally we size up actual need with the boat, but there's room for dreaming and those of us who fancy that we'll go pelagic are certainly entitled to our sort ended seaworthy salty things
Just as that guy who really doesn't care about his own (or his crew's) comfort is entitled to cruise his Wianno to Nova Scotia.
Don Braymer
posted 07-12-2000 04:27 PM
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Assming that you mean distance cruising.
Basic boat:
Classic, rational, sea kindly hull
Bulworks/caprails
6 foot 6 inch berths, 6 foot 3 headroom, room for 6, no shared cabin walls, water, food and fuel storage for 2 weeks and 1000 miles, multiple masts in case something big breaks.
Multiple heads, simple and straight forward electronics, all the same battery types, (that one man can lift) Kerosene as well as electric interior lights.
An engine room with enough room for tools and to completely dissasemble the diesel.
Add ons: two compasses, two GPS's, radar
Tradeoffs: draft versus where you want to go, rig versus crew available.
no-nos: computer based radar+GPS+charting system
Don't matter much: hull speed, aspect ratio, upwind performance, ballast/displacement ratio, sail furling gear.
Okay, now that I made the list, it is confirmed, I am no longer a racer.
DonB
TimScearce
posted 07-12-2000 05:09 PM
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The perfect boat drinks 6, feeds 4 and sleeps 2!
Call me a starry eyed dreamer but I would submit that one of the most important qualities of a boat is that it turns your head for one last look as you leave her at the end of the day.
Having only owned a plastic trailor sailor and my heavy disp. yawl I would say I favor the heavier boat for her seakindliness and stability. Her CCA lines result in less interior space than her more modern boats of similar LOA but I don't really see the need for a cavernous interior.
I have mixed feelings about gizmo's. I just recently invested in a newfangled combination diesel cooktop and cabin heater. By going modern I saved a huge amount of precious space and avoided needing multiple types of fuel. I also think radar is a good investment as we can get pretty socked in up her in the PNW and no amount of ded reckoning, bell ringing and horn blowing will save you from some weekend warrior barreling along through pea soup at 30kts.
Other nice features in no particular order:
- Tiller steering
- Split rig
- Assymetrical spinnaker with a sock
- Standing head room
- Large comfy berths
- Access to the icebox from the cockpit...;)
Eb
posted 07-12-2000 06:39 PM
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Gimmee shelter
Most of the boats that sail around here are owned by people who spend most of every week in an office building or a car and they look forward to sun, wind and salt on the weekend. Me, after a few decades of working year round out in the sun, wind, rain and cold, well... that pilothouse sloop down the dock is starting to look pretty good.
Eb
[This message has been edited by Eb (edited 07-12-2000).]
SelfSinkingFlatiron
posted 07-13-2000 01:36 PM
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1. Seakindly and seaworthy.
2. Standing headroom (at least 6'2") SOMEWHERE out of the weather, like the galley for instance. I like to cook but I need a little room.
3. Sleeps 2 in comfort for practically any amount of time (6'6" berths sound pretty good), reasonable accommodations for 4 for up to a week (with the proviso that 2 of the 4 are the master's young'uns who will in fact be fed to the ichthyosaurs if they keep complaining ).
4. Reasonably shoal--about 4' to 4'6"--because, you see, I'd be a Great Lakes cruiser if I were cruising. If that means a proportionally smaller boat, so be it. If I moved to the ocean I might be happier with a boat that drew 6' or more.
5. Best charts I can lay my hands on, GPS, accurate chronometer and sextant (already got the sextant) for when the GPS quits.
6. Radar (handy for finding the breakwall at your destination in thick fog, as I discovered at Frankfort, MI in my dad's Matthews back in '93).
7. Provisions for hot coffee in the morning; cool ale the rest of the day.
8. The combo diesel cooktop/cabin heater sounds like a winner. Details, please?
Ken
[This message has been edited by SelfSinkingFlatiron (edited 07-13-2000).]
TimScearce
posted 07-13-2000 02:18 PM
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Hi Ken,
The stove is made by Wallas. The combustion is electronically controlled. There is no open flame and the starter is piezo electric so no flame. The combustion products are vented out through a 3 1/2 inch closable vent and the intake vent helps keep the interior of the boat dry. Heater output is 6000 BTU.
Their website address is:
http://www.wallas.fi/WALLAS3E.HTM
The US distributor here in Seattle is Scan Marine (206) 285-3675 (www.scanmarineusa.com)
I am just installing my unit now and have no opinion about how it works but have heard good things from others.
(BTW, I have no business opr personal connection with these folks. I'm just providing requested info.)
Dale Harvey
posted 07-13-2000 02:24 PM
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The first thing I did when I "inherited" my Meadowlark half model, was pop it off the board and take lines. These were stretched to about 60' so headroom could be had, and a core sound style roundstern added. Rig was changed to schooner to aliviate Meadowlark's reluctance in stays. Cabin would be changed to two deckhouses with engineroom containing twin high speed diesels and mechanical systems between them. Rig would be gaff with wishbone booms, also on jib. GPS with chartplotting and depth sounder, VHF, and obligatory HAM radio. You just can't cruise the backwaters of our planet safely without a HAM setup and net buddies. A large dedicated chart table, fully stocked. peloris and sextent in case I find someone who Knows how to use them. She'd float in about 3', wich is all you want if you have to get out and push. Also saves on marina bills, that get quite out of hand in this length. Hull would be glued up out of four layers of 3/8 fir marine ply, heavily epoxy glassed outside. I got as far as cutting out part of the model, when it became evident I would no longer be able build her in this lifetime. I keep buying a lotto ticket on a regular basis in case the big guy changes his mind.
Ken Bascom
posted 07-14-2000 10:26 AM
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The Edey & Duff booklet on the Stone Horse design outlines 5 essential characteristics any cruising sailboat ought to have. While I have no real cruising experience myself, they make good sense to me:
1. She must be easy to handle. Most cruising is done by one ot two people, so the rig needs to be within the capabilities of one average person. This would also include being reasonably directionally stable, but with a good turning circle and an authoritative rudder.
2. She must be comfortable. This includes her motion in a seaway, and the quality of her accommodations. "At the very least, there should be places in the cabin where the whole crew can sit comfortably for hours."
3. She must be seaworthy. (I don't think any explanation is needed here.)
4. She must be fast. No racer fast, but able to get you where you're going before your pension check arrives.
5. She must be beautiful. Hey, if you're going to spend that much time with her, you need to be able to like looking at her!
Mobjack46
posted 07-15-2000 05:14 AM
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I am, I hope rebuilding the Ideal Cruising Boat.
She is A Flush/raised deck Herreshoff Mobjack.
LOD 45'
Draft 6'
Beam 13'6"
Sleeps 6 in three cabins
6'2" head room in the saloon, galey and master cabin. Has a long keel and a dry deck on all accounts. We are rerigging her as a Staysail Schooner. And she will have a Gardener 4LW swinging a 4 blader. House power is form 2 sets of 12v NiCad wet cell (20 year life) and 2 sets of 24v NiCad wet cells. The stove will be LPG with the bottles living in a deck box on the transome. The deck will be glassed ply and the cabin set vanished. The deck has room for 2 tenders side by side on the main deck. The fore deck has a achor well and space fore two CQR's and a fisherman back at the foremast chainplates. I plan to spline the hardwood planking to the last and copper her bottom.
We have budgeted 5000 hours and the next three years to get her finshed and then wish to have her take us around the world starting in Australia via the Med and Cape Horn.
Regards
Mark
Stu Fyfe
posted 07-15-2000 08:03 AM
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In Sensible Cruising: The Thoreau Approach by Casey and Hackler, the approach they favor is to keep things simple and just do it. I've tried to take this advice and go with what I've got without pushing the envelope too far. My Bolger 22ft, triple keel sloop Redwing has allowed me to travel the New England coast from Southwest Harbor ME to Mystic CT over the past 14 years. Her 18" draft and ability to ground out and sit upright has extended her horizons. Creeks, flats and shallow harbors become suitable anchorages that escape many other boats. The cabin has sitting room and can accomadate two people in spartan comfort with folding pipe berths. I once spent three weeks at a time on her and felt perfectly content. No, I can't race, hold large parties or rescue the Andrea Gail. I don't want to. Redwing has stood up to 50 knot gusts and 10ft seas. Yes, you do get wet and it gets your heart pumping. Her small 7hp Faryman diesel will push her at hull speed 6 knots and has often got me to windward before dark. For this type of extended beach cruising I think you need the following.
1. An engine (diesel if possible)
2. Portable head (for the guests)
3. All lines extending to the cockpit.
4. Radar reflector.
5. Oil lamps.
6. Small propane or white fuel stove.
7. Two anchors. Danforths (a CQR would be nice)
8. The usual safety equipment.
9. Safety harness.
10. A tiller locking comb.
11. Self steering device. I use the jib sheet through a block to the tiller and a bungee cord on the other side.
Avoid trying to keep food and drinks cold in a cooler. Ice won't last long in a small cooler. You can get by without ice. Even a good ale tastes fine at ocean temperature!
For some good reading along these lines try;
Beach Cruising by Douglas Alvord
The Compleat Cruiser by Herreshoff
Paul H Miller
posted 07-21-2000 09:38 AM
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It is obviously a function of your tastes! The typical (as judged by the types of popular boats sold) cruiser has as their priorities:
1. Room
2. Low maintenance
3. Lots of gadgets
Note that 2. and 3. are contradictory! I refer to most of the boats sold today as "dockominiums".
My wife and I have as our priorities:
1. Beauty
2. Sailing enjoyment (speed and handiness)
3. Shoal draft
4. As few gadgets as possible (KISS philosophy)
5. Low maintenance
6. A dry double-berth and an ice-chest
The boat we have is a Rozinante modified with a slightly longer cabin and more "cruisy" interior. She fulfills 1-4 & 6 nicely, and as we convert items from varnish to paint, 5 isn't too bad!
bill hersey
posted 07-21-2000 03:40 PM
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After 40 years as a "tradewind sailor" in the Pacific and Carribean, the answer has to lie in where and how are you going to use the boat. North Atlantic with two aboard? No more than 30 feet, solid steel flush deck, canoe-sterned, long keeled sloop with latest electronics,lots of battery back-up and stuff like solid rod lifelines.
Out West in the warmer waters with lighter airs, things like good ventilation become important, as well as sailing capabilities. Again, depending on where you're going. some of these jaunts are long hauls if you're really going into the tropics. Need to think of fuel capacities, sail compliment and variety and ease of sail changes as the winds get minds of their own.
After 8 sailing vessels, ranging from 25 to 76 feet (all wood, mind you, except for the 76' S&S steel ketch -- never again!) I think I've come close to the perfect crusing boat -- for Pacific waters: the Calkins 50. Strip planked 1/1/2" mahogany,bronze edge fastened, resorcinol glued. Canoe stern, medium displacement with lots of rudder, good balance, excellent turn of speed under a fairly short, simple sloop rig.Slab reefed main, roller furl on the genoa. She has a large deck salon with large windows, then flush deck forward with 2 staterooms, one head and shower. Importantly, the melmsman can see from one end of the vessel to the other on centerline, with cabin doors open. An 80 horse diesel pushes her at 9 knts at 1,700 rpm for 1,000 miles. Standard safety and navigation electronics (radar, GPS, radios, EPIRB, etc.)
What makes her a great cruising design is her ease of handling under most any condition. With a modified fin keel and large skeg and rudder, she tracks just fine running downwind without setting up a roll. Had two transpac transits on heavy, long-keeled, high-masted old girls, and "rock-a-bye" baby.
Finish up with a large cockpit, well drained,protected by the deckhouse. I've come to join many who are rediscovering the great engineering of Skip Calkins back in 1959 when he laid out the lines for LEGEND, which held the Transpac record for many years, and became the Calkins 50 "motorsailer" design.
Of course the ultimate crusing boat is the one which is waiting at the dock, sails furled, provisioned and ready, with a note pinned to the rail saying you have three months off.
bill hersey
posted 07-21-2000 03:45 PM
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Of course a good "melmsman" can see through doors--!
Kermit
posted 07-21-2000 06:19 PM
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1. "Overbuilt" for expected conditions.
2. Paid for.
Mobjack46
posted 07-22-2000 05:28 AM
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Built by someone else (with a great boss)
For some one else (at great cost)
and sold to you (at great loss)
along the same lines as
Fools make money
for wise men to use!
or
Fools build boats
for wise men to buy.
Mark
Art Read
posted 07-22-2000 11:56 AM
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Mobjack... Loved it! Can I quote you? (BTW... I, too think the top of any list of "perfect" boat qualities should be looks. Don't matter what your tastes are... If you can walk away at the end of the day without turning to look back at her over your shoulder one last time, you ain't in love. And you gotta be in love with your boat if you're ever gonna be truely satisfied with her.)
ACB
posted 07-28-2000 05:55 AM
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I already own her.
Mirelle meets most of the above criteria!
Accomodates 6 in squalor, four in tolerance and two in comfort. 37'6" x 27'6" x 9'9" x 5', teak on oak, 3.3 tons ballast keel, displacement 9.2 tons, 630 sq ft, gaff cutter. 6' headroom, but I'm 5'9". Coal cabin stove, kerosene cooking stove, kerosene and electric lights on deck and below, safe selfdraining cockpit, boom foresail, roller reefing mainsail. 9 ft stem dinghy stowed on coachroof. Berths 6'6" x 2'. Oilskin locker near companion, with a seat for getting them on and off. Teak panelled saloon. Bronze manual freshwater pumps, with Baby Blake heads. Loads of handholds below.
Self steers except downwind. Docile, predictable handling and motion. Heaves to well. Good anchor gear.
Stunningly beautiful.
Only had her 16 years; previous owner had her for 33. Think I'll keep her a bit longer!
Scott Rosen
posted 07-12-2000 01:29 PM
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What qualities do you like in a cruising boat?
Some folks say they need a fast boat that sails well to windward.
Other folks (like me) think that since you spend most of your time at anchor or at a dock, you need a boat that's comfortable to live on. I prefer sea-kindliness and ease of handling over speed. I'd rather arrive a little later, but relaxed and dry. But I bet some of you see it the other way.
Here in the LI Sound, the summer winds are very light and fluky. No matter how fast your boat sails, you'll spend a fair amount of time under power getting to your destination, so I like a boat that has a big enough engine to cruise her at hull speed.
I don't like electronic gizmos and complicated machinery. The simpler the better. I try to have plenty of redundancy in all of my systems, and I like to be able to fix and repair things myself--can't do that with electronics. For example, I'd never get an electric windlass (even if I could afford one). What has stopped me from getting radar and an electric auto-pilot is all of the extra harware and wiring that I'd have to install and the knowledge that if they broke, they'd be difficult and expensive to repair. I also find that the more I use the gizmos, the less I appreciate the basic surroundings. I got a handheld GPS a few years ago and I found that whenever I turned it on, I paid more attention to the dam* unit then to basic navigation aids like buoys, wind direction, clouds, landmarks, etc. In other words, I spent more time looking down than up. (Why is sailing better than golf? Because in golf you're always looking down, in sailing you're looking up. It's an approach to life.) Now, on a clear day, I don't even bother to turn on the GPS or the depth sounder. I use my eyes and ears and other senses, as sailors have done forever.
Thought anyone?
TomRobb
posted 07-12-2000 02:52 PM
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QEII?
Ian McColgin
posted 07-12-2000 03:26 PM
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I'm with Scott on the KISS approach. Everything breaks once a year so if you have 365 things on your boat, you'll have a repair a day.
There's always room to temper reason with love. I got Goblin because she was more beautiful than the other contender for my affection, the truely great ocean yawl Cimeron. I got Granna when the more rational choise would have been an old Freedom 40, but I'd dreamed of a MarcoPolo for almost 30 years at that point.
I place more emphasis on good sea berths than most, since it's easier to make a sea berth habitable in harbor than it is to make a harbor berth safe when the boat's jumping.
I place a lot of value on the view from the cockpit, not just good visibility but also seeing the pretty things on your boat.
I want the boat to be if not down right beautiful - only I argue that the marcopolo is beautiful - but at least purposful and healthy looking. Bennytubs just don't make it, even with shag carpet and fuzzy dice.
So ideally we size up actual need with the boat, but there's room for dreaming and those of us who fancy that we'll go pelagic are certainly entitled to our sort ended seaworthy salty things
Just as that guy who really doesn't care about his own (or his crew's) comfort is entitled to cruise his Wianno to Nova Scotia.
Don Braymer
posted 07-12-2000 04:27 PM
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Assming that you mean distance cruising.
Basic boat:
Classic, rational, sea kindly hull
Bulworks/caprails
6 foot 6 inch berths, 6 foot 3 headroom, room for 6, no shared cabin walls, water, food and fuel storage for 2 weeks and 1000 miles, multiple masts in case something big breaks.
Multiple heads, simple and straight forward electronics, all the same battery types, (that one man can lift) Kerosene as well as electric interior lights.
An engine room with enough room for tools and to completely dissasemble the diesel.
Add ons: two compasses, two GPS's, radar
Tradeoffs: draft versus where you want to go, rig versus crew available.
no-nos: computer based radar+GPS+charting system
Don't matter much: hull speed, aspect ratio, upwind performance, ballast/displacement ratio, sail furling gear.
Okay, now that I made the list, it is confirmed, I am no longer a racer.
DonB
TimScearce
posted 07-12-2000 05:09 PM
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The perfect boat drinks 6, feeds 4 and sleeps 2!
Call me a starry eyed dreamer but I would submit that one of the most important qualities of a boat is that it turns your head for one last look as you leave her at the end of the day.
Having only owned a plastic trailor sailor and my heavy disp. yawl I would say I favor the heavier boat for her seakindliness and stability. Her CCA lines result in less interior space than her more modern boats of similar LOA but I don't really see the need for a cavernous interior.
I have mixed feelings about gizmo's. I just recently invested in a newfangled combination diesel cooktop and cabin heater. By going modern I saved a huge amount of precious space and avoided needing multiple types of fuel. I also think radar is a good investment as we can get pretty socked in up her in the PNW and no amount of ded reckoning, bell ringing and horn blowing will save you from some weekend warrior barreling along through pea soup at 30kts.
Other nice features in no particular order:
- Tiller steering
- Split rig
- Assymetrical spinnaker with a sock
- Standing head room
- Large comfy berths
- Access to the icebox from the cockpit...;)
Eb
posted 07-12-2000 06:39 PM
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Gimmee shelter
Most of the boats that sail around here are owned by people who spend most of every week in an office building or a car and they look forward to sun, wind and salt on the weekend. Me, after a few decades of working year round out in the sun, wind, rain and cold, well... that pilothouse sloop down the dock is starting to look pretty good.
Eb
[This message has been edited by Eb (edited 07-12-2000).]
SelfSinkingFlatiron
posted 07-13-2000 01:36 PM
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1. Seakindly and seaworthy.
2. Standing headroom (at least 6'2") SOMEWHERE out of the weather, like the galley for instance. I like to cook but I need a little room.
3. Sleeps 2 in comfort for practically any amount of time (6'6" berths sound pretty good), reasonable accommodations for 4 for up to a week (with the proviso that 2 of the 4 are the master's young'uns who will in fact be fed to the ichthyosaurs if they keep complaining ).
4. Reasonably shoal--about 4' to 4'6"--because, you see, I'd be a Great Lakes cruiser if I were cruising. If that means a proportionally smaller boat, so be it. If I moved to the ocean I might be happier with a boat that drew 6' or more.
5. Best charts I can lay my hands on, GPS, accurate chronometer and sextant (already got the sextant) for when the GPS quits.
6. Radar (handy for finding the breakwall at your destination in thick fog, as I discovered at Frankfort, MI in my dad's Matthews back in '93).
7. Provisions for hot coffee in the morning; cool ale the rest of the day.
8. The combo diesel cooktop/cabin heater sounds like a winner. Details, please?
Ken
[This message has been edited by SelfSinkingFlatiron (edited 07-13-2000).]
TimScearce
posted 07-13-2000 02:18 PM
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Hi Ken,
The stove is made by Wallas. The combustion is electronically controlled. There is no open flame and the starter is piezo electric so no flame. The combustion products are vented out through a 3 1/2 inch closable vent and the intake vent helps keep the interior of the boat dry. Heater output is 6000 BTU.
Their website address is:
http://www.wallas.fi/WALLAS3E.HTM
The US distributor here in Seattle is Scan Marine (206) 285-3675 (www.scanmarineusa.com)
I am just installing my unit now and have no opinion about how it works but have heard good things from others.
(BTW, I have no business opr personal connection with these folks. I'm just providing requested info.)
Dale Harvey
posted 07-13-2000 02:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first thing I did when I "inherited" my Meadowlark half model, was pop it off the board and take lines. These were stretched to about 60' so headroom could be had, and a core sound style roundstern added. Rig was changed to schooner to aliviate Meadowlark's reluctance in stays. Cabin would be changed to two deckhouses with engineroom containing twin high speed diesels and mechanical systems between them. Rig would be gaff with wishbone booms, also on jib. GPS with chartplotting and depth sounder, VHF, and obligatory HAM radio. You just can't cruise the backwaters of our planet safely without a HAM setup and net buddies. A large dedicated chart table, fully stocked. peloris and sextent in case I find someone who Knows how to use them. She'd float in about 3', wich is all you want if you have to get out and push. Also saves on marina bills, that get quite out of hand in this length. Hull would be glued up out of four layers of 3/8 fir marine ply, heavily epoxy glassed outside. I got as far as cutting out part of the model, when it became evident I would no longer be able build her in this lifetime. I keep buying a lotto ticket on a regular basis in case the big guy changes his mind.
Ken Bascom
posted 07-14-2000 10:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Edey & Duff booklet on the Stone Horse design outlines 5 essential characteristics any cruising sailboat ought to have. While I have no real cruising experience myself, they make good sense to me:
1. She must be easy to handle. Most cruising is done by one ot two people, so the rig needs to be within the capabilities of one average person. This would also include being reasonably directionally stable, but with a good turning circle and an authoritative rudder.
2. She must be comfortable. This includes her motion in a seaway, and the quality of her accommodations. "At the very least, there should be places in the cabin where the whole crew can sit comfortably for hours."
3. She must be seaworthy. (I don't think any explanation is needed here.)
4. She must be fast. No racer fast, but able to get you where you're going before your pension check arrives.
5. She must be beautiful. Hey, if you're going to spend that much time with her, you need to be able to like looking at her!
Mobjack46
posted 07-15-2000 05:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am, I hope rebuilding the Ideal Cruising Boat.
She is A Flush/raised deck Herreshoff Mobjack.
LOD 45'
Draft 6'
Beam 13'6"
Sleeps 6 in three cabins
6'2" head room in the saloon, galey and master cabin. Has a long keel and a dry deck on all accounts. We are rerigging her as a Staysail Schooner. And she will have a Gardener 4LW swinging a 4 blader. House power is form 2 sets of 12v NiCad wet cell (20 year life) and 2 sets of 24v NiCad wet cells. The stove will be LPG with the bottles living in a deck box on the transome. The deck will be glassed ply and the cabin set vanished. The deck has room for 2 tenders side by side on the main deck. The fore deck has a achor well and space fore two CQR's and a fisherman back at the foremast chainplates. I plan to spline the hardwood planking to the last and copper her bottom.
We have budgeted 5000 hours and the next three years to get her finshed and then wish to have her take us around the world starting in Australia via the Med and Cape Horn.
Regards
Mark
Stu Fyfe
posted 07-15-2000 08:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Sensible Cruising: The Thoreau Approach by Casey and Hackler, the approach they favor is to keep things simple and just do it. I've tried to take this advice and go with what I've got without pushing the envelope too far. My Bolger 22ft, triple keel sloop Redwing has allowed me to travel the New England coast from Southwest Harbor ME to Mystic CT over the past 14 years. Her 18" draft and ability to ground out and sit upright has extended her horizons. Creeks, flats and shallow harbors become suitable anchorages that escape many other boats. The cabin has sitting room and can accomadate two people in spartan comfort with folding pipe berths. I once spent three weeks at a time on her and felt perfectly content. No, I can't race, hold large parties or rescue the Andrea Gail. I don't want to. Redwing has stood up to 50 knot gusts and 10ft seas. Yes, you do get wet and it gets your heart pumping. Her small 7hp Faryman diesel will push her at hull speed 6 knots and has often got me to windward before dark. For this type of extended beach cruising I think you need the following.
1. An engine (diesel if possible)
2. Portable head (for the guests)
3. All lines extending to the cockpit.
4. Radar reflector.
5. Oil lamps.
6. Small propane or white fuel stove.
7. Two anchors. Danforths (a CQR would be nice)
8. The usual safety equipment.
9. Safety harness.
10. A tiller locking comb.
11. Self steering device. I use the jib sheet through a block to the tiller and a bungee cord on the other side.
Avoid trying to keep food and drinks cold in a cooler. Ice won't last long in a small cooler. You can get by without ice. Even a good ale tastes fine at ocean temperature!
For some good reading along these lines try;
Beach Cruising by Douglas Alvord
The Compleat Cruiser by Herreshoff
Paul H Miller
posted 07-21-2000 09:38 AM
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It is obviously a function of your tastes! The typical (as judged by the types of popular boats sold) cruiser has as their priorities:
1. Room
2. Low maintenance
3. Lots of gadgets
Note that 2. and 3. are contradictory! I refer to most of the boats sold today as "dockominiums".
My wife and I have as our priorities:
1. Beauty
2. Sailing enjoyment (speed and handiness)
3. Shoal draft
4. As few gadgets as possible (KISS philosophy)
5. Low maintenance
6. A dry double-berth and an ice-chest
The boat we have is a Rozinante modified with a slightly longer cabin and more "cruisy" interior. She fulfills 1-4 & 6 nicely, and as we convert items from varnish to paint, 5 isn't too bad!
bill hersey
posted 07-21-2000 03:40 PM
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After 40 years as a "tradewind sailor" in the Pacific and Carribean, the answer has to lie in where and how are you going to use the boat. North Atlantic with two aboard? No more than 30 feet, solid steel flush deck, canoe-sterned, long keeled sloop with latest electronics,lots of battery back-up and stuff like solid rod lifelines.
Out West in the warmer waters with lighter airs, things like good ventilation become important, as well as sailing capabilities. Again, depending on where you're going. some of these jaunts are long hauls if you're really going into the tropics. Need to think of fuel capacities, sail compliment and variety and ease of sail changes as the winds get minds of their own.
After 8 sailing vessels, ranging from 25 to 76 feet (all wood, mind you, except for the 76' S&S steel ketch -- never again!) I think I've come close to the perfect crusing boat -- for Pacific waters: the Calkins 50. Strip planked 1/1/2" mahogany,bronze edge fastened, resorcinol glued. Canoe stern, medium displacement with lots of rudder, good balance, excellent turn of speed under a fairly short, simple sloop rig.Slab reefed main, roller furl on the genoa. She has a large deck salon with large windows, then flush deck forward with 2 staterooms, one head and shower. Importantly, the melmsman can see from one end of the vessel to the other on centerline, with cabin doors open. An 80 horse diesel pushes her at 9 knts at 1,700 rpm for 1,000 miles. Standard safety and navigation electronics (radar, GPS, radios, EPIRB, etc.)
What makes her a great cruising design is her ease of handling under most any condition. With a modified fin keel and large skeg and rudder, she tracks just fine running downwind without setting up a roll. Had two transpac transits on heavy, long-keeled, high-masted old girls, and "rock-a-bye" baby.
Finish up with a large cockpit, well drained,protected by the deckhouse. I've come to join many who are rediscovering the great engineering of Skip Calkins back in 1959 when he laid out the lines for LEGEND, which held the Transpac record for many years, and became the Calkins 50 "motorsailer" design.
Of course the ultimate crusing boat is the one which is waiting at the dock, sails furled, provisioned and ready, with a note pinned to the rail saying you have three months off.
bill hersey
posted 07-21-2000 03:45 PM
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Of course a good "melmsman" can see through doors--!
Kermit
posted 07-21-2000 06:19 PM
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1. "Overbuilt" for expected conditions.
2. Paid for.
Mobjack46
posted 07-22-2000 05:28 AM
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Built by someone else (with a great boss)
For some one else (at great cost)
and sold to you (at great loss)
along the same lines as
Fools make money
for wise men to use!
or
Fools build boats
for wise men to buy.
Mark
Art Read
posted 07-22-2000 11:56 AM
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Mobjack... Loved it! Can I quote you? (BTW... I, too think the top of any list of "perfect" boat qualities should be looks. Don't matter what your tastes are... If you can walk away at the end of the day without turning to look back at her over your shoulder one last time, you ain't in love. And you gotta be in love with your boat if you're ever gonna be truely satisfied with her.)
ACB
posted 07-28-2000 05:55 AM
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I already own her.
Mirelle meets most of the above criteria!
Accomodates 6 in squalor, four in tolerance and two in comfort. 37'6" x 27'6" x 9'9" x 5', teak on oak, 3.3 tons ballast keel, displacement 9.2 tons, 630 sq ft, gaff cutter. 6' headroom, but I'm 5'9". Coal cabin stove, kerosene cooking stove, kerosene and electric lights on deck and below, safe selfdraining cockpit, boom foresail, roller reefing mainsail. 9 ft stem dinghy stowed on coachroof. Berths 6'6" x 2'. Oilskin locker near companion, with a seat for getting them on and off. Teak panelled saloon. Bronze manual freshwater pumps, with Baby Blake heads. Loads of handholds below.
Self steers except downwind. Docile, predictable handling and motion. Heaves to well. Good anchor gear.
Stunningly beautiful.
Only had her 16 years; previous owner had her for 33. Think I'll keep her a bit longer!