PDA

View Full Version : "Hyper-realistic" military training - quite amazing



Larks
05-12-2011, 02:52 AM
This is US military, not Oz, so my apologies if this has already done the rounds in the States, but I'm not sure how fresh this is as I've only just seen it and found it quite impressive from an immersion training perspective:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid50062332001?bclid=0&bctid=85579948001

seanz
05-12-2011, 03:09 AM
"Head on swivel" is a great quote.
:)

Very impressive......well, I only watched the first bit.....I'm eating dinner so I'll skip the simulated wounds section.

Phillip Allen
05-12-2011, 03:12 AM
"Head on swivel" is a great quote.
:)

Very impressive......well, I only watched the first bit.....I'm eating dinner so I'll skip the simulated wounds section.

you did well to skip that wound business...amazing

its still got to cost an awful lot!

purri
05-12-2011, 04:19 AM
Better served if recruits went through a peripheral vision training course. (obviously not available in video simulation)

Phillip Allen
05-12-2011, 04:23 AM
Better served if recruits went through a peripheral vision training course. (obviously not available in video simulation)

couldn't that be equated with situational awareness...just being aware of what is going on around one's self

PeterSibley
05-12-2011, 04:44 AM
"Head on swivel" is a great quote.
:)

Very impressive......well, I only watched the first bit.....I'm eating dinner so I'll skip the simulated wounds section.

I'm guessing the military have a lot of amputees on their books who really know how to play those parts well ! :(

The Bigfella
05-12-2011, 05:41 AM
Good stuff

Larks
05-12-2011, 05:42 AM
I'm guessing the military have a lot of amputees on their books who really know how to play those parts well ! :(

You mean "how to play those lack of parts well"? Nothing beats experience I guess, I'd imagine it'd be a trauma that you'd not readily forget if you were conscious throughout it.

The Bigfella
05-12-2011, 05:44 AM
I saw plenty of Cambodian kids who wouldn't mind a paying role.

Paul Pless
05-12-2011, 05:59 AM
Good stuffOur military also uses this kinda training to evaluate soldiers that have come back from combat to evaluate how they've been affected by it.

Ian McColgin
05-12-2011, 07:08 AM
Returning US vets from Iraq and Afghanistan are running over 30% with PTSD serious enough to be diagnosable. British vets who served as long and suffered porportionatly similar casualties return with about 4% PTSD. This interesting and horrifying contrast tells me that there is something profoundly wrong with our training. It is by no means clear just what.

Phillip Allen
05-12-2011, 09:57 AM
Returning US vets from Iraq and Afghanistan are running over 30% with PTSD serious enough to be diagnosable. British vets who served as long and suffered porportionatly similar casualties return with about 4% PTSD. This interesting and horrifying contrast tells me that there is something profoundly wrong with our training. It is by no means clear just what.
can you compare that to WWII or perhaps the Spanish American or Crimian Wars?

Ian McColgin
05-12-2011, 10:15 AM
Phillip, if you have some interest in the history, enjoy the research. Problems since PTSD is a relativly recent diagnosis. In WWI vets returned from the trenches with "shell shock." After our Civil War a whole generation had higher alcohol and drug abuse problems than before or since but there was no statistical measure of 'battle fatigue' or whatever you want to call it. I am not sure how one would go about the historical research but have fun.

I also have no clue as to why. One thought: US soldiers live in a culture that talks more about and expects PTSD than British. We've seen from the failure of early intervention efforts to thwart juvenile crime that often "labeling" causes people to live up to the expectations. So maybe that's a cause. But alternativly, it could be simply that the British mental health system and British mental health in general is as bad as the historical stereotype of British dental hygene. Or most anything else.

Just as Gen. Marshall discovering that at the start of WWII something like 90% of our soldiers were firing into the air rather than trying to kill the enemy was a bit of a shock that led to profound changes in training, so also this phenomenon needs to be understood and dealt with. However defined and however caused, such a high PTSD rate is a problem.

Paul Pless
05-12-2011, 10:24 AM
This interesting and horrifying contrast tells me that there is something profoundly wrong with our training.


But alternativly, it could be simply that the British mental health system and British mental health in general is as bad as the historical stereotype of British dental hygene. Or most anything else.

So what is it? our defective training or their defective mental health system?

Seriously I can see lots of possibilities for the disparity. And I think that we probably agree in that its a situation that needs to be addressed better by us.

Phillip Allen
05-12-2011, 10:29 AM
Phillip, if you have some interest in the history, enjoy the research. Problems since PTSD is a relativly recent diagnosis. In WWI vets returned from the trenches with "shell shock." After our Civil War a whole generation had higher alcohol and drug abuse problems than before or since but there was no statistical measure of 'battle fatigue' or whatever you want to call it. I am not sure how one would go about the historical research but have fun.

I also have no clue as to why. One thought: US soldiers live in a culture that talks more about and expects PTSD than British. We've seen from the failure of early intervention efforts to thwart juvenile crime that often "labeling" causes people to live up to the expectations. So maybe that's a cause. But alternativly, it could be simply that the British mental health system and British mental health in general is as bad as the historical stereotype of British dental hygene. Or most anything else.

Just as Gen. Marshall discovering that at the start of WWII something like 90% of our soldiers were firing into the air rather than trying to kill the enemy was a bit of a shock that led to profound changes in training, so also this phenomenon needs to be understood and dealt with. However defined and however caused, such a high PTSD rate is a problem.
it's an honest question, Ian. How can we get a better perspective?

Ian McColgin
05-12-2011, 10:31 AM
We do agree. And we'd probably agree that if we can identify the problem, training that addresses that will be part of the solution. What we have now is simply the knowledge that our hyperrealistic training somehow does not prepare our troops for the hyper-realistic trauma that keeps on giving.

Paul Pless
05-12-2011, 10:33 AM
Ian, I wonder how much of it has to do with a difference in selection for who serves in combat between the US and the UK; and whether that selection process is conscious or societal in nature. . .

Phillip Allen
05-12-2011, 10:33 AM
We do agree. And we'd probably agree that if we can identify the problem, training that addresses that will be part of the solution. What we have now is simply the knowledge that our hyperrealistic training somehow does not prepare our troops for the hyper-realistic trauma that keeps on giving.

I will offer that our troops KNOW that one is make-believe and the other is not... don't treat them as being stupid... they're not

Ian McColgin
05-12-2011, 10:39 AM
I don't know what failure of imagination could lead anyone to think that my remarks imply that our troops, including those who train our troops, are stupid. The only thing that would be stupid would be to continue screwing the VA so they can't treat PTSD, which one party's budget proposal continues, and to not do what it takes to understand the causes of all this.

The Bigfella
05-12-2011, 04:04 PM
I know its a serious subject.... but this thread is hilarious.

Paul Pless
05-12-2011, 04:36 PM
but this thread is hilarious.i really liked the 'failure of imagination' line myself:D

btw, you should head over to the rape thread

The Bigfella
05-12-2011, 05:21 PM
Yeah, I visited, but there's no joy with some dunderheads. I wonder how many will be inspired by that story.... and die as a result?

purri
05-12-2011, 09:35 PM
couldn't that be equated with situational awareness...just being aware of what is going on around one's self
Not quite. Many settler societies have limited peripheral vison due to lack of exposure to outdoor threats but with training optic muscles can strengthened to use a wider visible arc. Constant video and screen use dosn't help the matter.

Phillip Allen
05-12-2011, 09:46 PM
Not quite. Many settler societies have limited peripheral vison due to lack of exposure to outdoor threats but with training optic muscles can strengthened to use a wider visible arc. Constant video and screen use dosn't help the matter.

I was thinking more mental than physical

The Bigfella
05-12-2011, 10:08 PM
I was thinking more mental than physical

You usually think physically?

purri
05-13-2011, 12:25 AM
^ SOP US foreign policy y'know...