PDA

View Full Version : china can but we can't



wardd
04-25-2011, 01:48 PM
China's New List Of Desirable Industries Could Alter Policies, Regulations

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/25/china-economic-industries-list-desirable_n_853159.html

Paul Pless
04-25-2011, 01:58 PM
china can but we can't that happens to be one of the hallmarks of a centrally planned and controlled economy. . .

Waddie
04-25-2011, 02:03 PM
You know, back in my undergrad days in the early 70's every poly sci and econ professor I had said that a Capitalist economy could not thrive under a Communist government. I sure would like to sit in on a few classes today and see what they're saying.

It seems like they can make decisions much faster than we can, although we probably allow for more input. It only took 23 years to get a new runway put in at the Atlanta airport. Big decisions take much longer---like establishing an energy policy. Oh, that's right, we still don't have one. Jimmy Carter almost got us one....:)

regards,
Waddie

wardd
04-25-2011, 02:03 PM
that happens to be one of the hallmarks of a centrally planned and controlled economy. . .

we can still encourage next generation industries so we wont have to buy those products from china

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
04-25-2011, 02:17 PM
It doesn't take a totalitarian government to bring about major change in industry. Take Germany for example. By guaranteeing energy prices for a fixed time, they've created a booming alternative energy industry that encourages development on any scale.

BrianY
04-25-2011, 02:21 PM
It seems like they can make decisions much faster than we can, ...

What was it that they said about Mussolini?...something about making the trains run on time....

Which reminds me of a song:

Gang of Four: Outside the Trains Don't Run On Time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25waL5oTWDI

You want something done fast? Get yourself a Dictator because by its very nature, nothing moves quickly in a Democracy. Capitalism takes it's sweet time too...the rise and fall of companies...a Darwinian competetion to determine which companies and industries really are the fittest...unless of course the government intervenes... but then it isn't caplitalism.

Pick your poison: Democratic caplitalism moving at a snail's pace or the quick change of a dictatorial command economy?

Waddie
04-25-2011, 03:50 PM
What was it that they said about Mussolini?...something about making the trains run on time....

Which reminds me of a song:

Gang of Four: Outside the Trains Don't Run On Time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25waL5oTWDI

You want something done fast? Get yourself a Dictator because by its very nature, nothing moves quickly in a Democracy. Capitalism takes it's sweet time too...the rise and fall of companies...a Darwinian competetion to determine which companies and industries really are the fittest...unless of course the government intervenes... but then it isn't caplitalism.

Pick your poison: Democratic caplitalism moving at a snail's pace or the quick change of a dictatorial command economy?

There's quite a difference between a snail's pace and no pace at all. (See; lack of energy policy--since the gas crisis of the 70's). With our government in a 50-50 standoff we seem incapable of making even small decisions without major controversy, and the opposition dedicated to reversing the policy. I would agree that a functioning democracy is a good thing--I wish we had one.

regards,
Waddie

skuthorp
04-25-2011, 04:16 PM
50-50 down here too, lot's of sniping but very little progress. Can hardly tell the difference between the majors either, 3rd rate 'leaders', a public contemptuous of them all.

Waddie
04-25-2011, 04:18 PM
50-50 down here too, lot's of sniping but very little progress. Can hardly tell the difference between the majors either, 3rd rate 'leaders', a public contemptuous of them all.

+1...

regards,
Waddie

purri
04-25-2011, 08:06 PM
+1.

C. Ross
04-25-2011, 09:19 PM
The gullibility of Huffington Post would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

In 1996 China planned to get tough, shutting down pollution industries.


In a decision to control growing industrial pollution following 18 years of high economic growth, the central government vowed four years ago to close down all the polluting industrial firms that failed to meet industrial pollution discharge standards set by both the central and local governments by the end of 2000. http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200008/14/eng20000814_48176.html

In 2006, in an act of selfless environment stewardship, China declares that the West is to blame for its atrocious industrial policy and environmental disaster.


'World Must Share Blame for Industrial Pollution' Repeatedly cited for pollution, China has launched a counter-attack saying it is mainly because the country has been the world's workshop in the past twenty years, producing and exporting goods for a multitude of nations, while keeping the waste and ecological degradation for itself. http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=35554

In 2007, Stern Actions are avoided.

“It is a very awkward situation for the country because our greatest achievement is also our biggest burden,” says Wang Jinnan, one of China’s leading environmental researchers. “There is pressure for change, but many people refuse to accept that we need a new approach so soon.”
China’s problem has become the world’s problem. Sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides spewed by China’s coal-fired power plants fall as acid rain on Seoul, South Korea, and Tokyo. Much of the particulate pollution over Los Angeles originates in China, according to the Journal of Geophysical Research.
...but it appears that the situation has not improved significantly


Environmental woes that might be considered catastrophic in some countries can seem commonplace in China: industrial cities where people rarely see the sun; children killed or sickened by lead poisoning or other types of local pollution; a coastline so swamped by algal red tides that large sections of the ocean no longer sustain marine life. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/world/asia/26china.html

In 2008, tough laws are passed.


Tougher law to curb water pollution. China's top legislature on Thursday adopted an amended water pollution law that toughens punishment of company officials through hefty fines. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-02/29/content_6494712.htm

In 2009, in a joyful demonstration celebrating the environmental leadership of local government leaders, 10,000 villagers take to the streets.


China riot: 10,000 villagers clash with police over industrial pollution.

Simmering disgruntlement among the villagers turned to outright violence after rumours circulated that the plant was pumping untreated effluent from a leather tannery upstream as well as sewage.
...
The local government denies the villagers' claims, issuing a statement saying that the effluent from the plant conformed to environmental standards, but acknowledging that the plant had broken down and that measures were being taken to repair it.
Senior officials had been sent to the area "to strive for the understanding and support from the public" according to the Quanzhou Evening News, a local newspaper, however villagers said they remained deeply distrustful of the local government.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/6126874/China-riot-10000-villagers-clash-with-police-over-industrial-pollution.html

In 2010, in a magnificent display of brotherhood and solidarity with rural peoples, cancer-causing plants are relocated to remote villages rather than closed.


Nationwide, cancer rates have surged since the 1990s to become the nation's biggest killer. In 2007, the disease was responsible for one in five deaths (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2007/may/22/china.pollution), up 80% since the start of economic reforms 30 years earlier.While the government insists it is cleaning up pollution far faster than other nations at a similar dirty stage of development, many toxic industries have simply been relocated to impoverished, poorly regulated rural areas.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/07/china-cancer-villages-industrial-pollution

And in 2011 the Huffington Post celebrates China's glorious environmental action, according to our correspondent exceeding what is done in the U.S.

What is it EXACTLY that China can do that we can't?

Nanoose
04-25-2011, 09:27 PM
have a lower unemployment rate?

Waddie
04-25-2011, 09:51 PM
Have a growing middle class?

I'll bet they clean up their environment before we balance our budget.....:)

regards,
Waddie

PS. I still prefer democracy..I just wished ours was functional right now.

C. Ross
04-25-2011, 10:10 PM
have a lower unemployment rate?

Probably not.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2009/04/02/calculating-chinas-unemployment-rate/

The broadest estimate of US unemployment in April 2009 (in the depths of the recession) was 14.6% (compared to the commonly-reported number of 9.1%)

The official Chinese estimate of unemployment is 4.2% (which it has been for years, since the method for counting cut unemployment by HALF in 2007). The Chinese Academy of Social Sciences at the time said it was 9.4%, and the National Bureau of Statistics said it was over 20% in 2007-2009.

C. Ross
04-25-2011, 10:16 PM
Have a growing middle class?


The lure of China's urban-affluent segment is easy to understand. These consumers earn more than 100,000 renminbi (about $12,500) a year3 and command 500 billion renminbi—nearly 10 percent of urban disposable income4—despite accounting for just 1 percent of the total population. http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/The_value_of_Chinas_emerging_middle_class_1798


It's not too hard to grow your middle class when the urban-affluent segment earns $12,500 per year and represents 1% of the total population.

Waddie
04-25-2011, 10:50 PM
DANG---C. Ross---you have some good answers, IF your figures are real and you didn't just now make them up!! ( It's required in the Bilge to cast aspersions on your data :) ). I knew those commies just couldn't be that smart!!!! They will probably be trying to sell us lead filled toys next !!

No kidding, good response. I am more frustrated with my own government's lack of progress on important issues, than I am admiring of the Chinese.

regards,
Waddie

Keith Wilson
04-25-2011, 11:06 PM
Chris doesn't make up figures, and the sources are right there for you to check. I don't always agree with the conclusions he draws from the figures, but he doesn't try to BS anyone with bad data.

China, while hardly a model of democracy, is not a dictatorship, nor does it really have a centrally planned economy anymore. Parts of the economy still are, but it's nothing like it was 20 years ago. Weak rule of law and corrupt local officials are more of a problem than heavy-handed central planning. It's probably fair to say that it's now communist in name only.