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Dutch
04-22-2011, 04:16 PM
an interesting video -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

jack grebe
04-22-2011, 04:19 PM
Like I'm gonna sit here and wait for 48 min. of boob tube to download.....................

stevebaby
04-22-2011, 04:20 PM
That video's been on here before,and as it's 48 minutes long,I doubt many people watched it then either.

S.V. Airlie
04-22-2011, 04:24 PM
Yup.. most here don't have the attention span..48 minutes is too much to take in...

Phillip Allen
04-22-2011, 04:29 PM
That video's been on here before,and as it's 48 minutes long,I doubt many people watched it then either.

I've seen it before and I HAVE watched it all the way through... it's been a while though... it's a classroom lecture... I like learning things

Dutch
04-22-2011, 04:32 PM
if you or one of your family is ever questioned by police about a crime ( guilty or not) youll probably wind up wishing you'd taken the time ;)

Phillip Allen
04-22-2011, 04:36 PM
I was working at a sports shop which was burgled...I was questioned at the police station...I thought I was helping until I was read my Miranda rights...at that time I became very careful because I realized I was being considered as the burglar... THAT...my friends... is scary!

CWSmith
04-22-2011, 04:54 PM
That video's been on here before,and as it's 48 minutes long,I doubt many people watched it then either.

Watch it! Study it! Memorize it! Then watch it again! I have been looking for this advice for years. Don't ever talk to the police without a lawyer!

htom
04-22-2011, 05:04 PM
I highly recommend watching this video. If I'd seen it a couple of decades ago, it would have saved me a pile of trouble and thousands of dollars.

David Tabor (sailordave)
04-22-2011, 05:04 PM
And the follow up video to this he has a former police officer tell you the EXACT SAME THING. And why.

Cops got a hard job. But I don't trust them.

Phillip Allen
04-22-2011, 05:24 PM
And the follow up video to this he has a former police officer tell you the EXACT SAME THING. And why.

Cops got a hard job. But I don't trust them.
burglars have a hard job too...

BarnacleGrim
04-22-2011, 05:54 PM
I watched it to the end last time it was up, and I watched it to the end now.

A lawyer once told me about a client admitting parking fraud in front of the judge before even getting out of the courthouse elevator.

ishmael
04-22-2011, 06:10 PM
For us troglodytes on dial up, what's it say? That cops can be lousy bastards? I knew that one already. I've also known very decent folks who were cops.

Not my line of work, always beagleing for trouble. Ain't there enough without scouting for it?

Phillip Allen
04-22-2011, 06:29 PM
besides saying the obvious, Jack, it just keeps it in focus for 48 minutes the better to help you learn... It's a lecture ...made painful by the proff's poor speaking skills

skipper68
04-22-2011, 08:25 PM
ROTFLMAO-Sooo, I'm on the OTHER side of the guard rail at Harbor Fest in Oswego, drinking almost dead beer. The officer said,"You know, I can arrest you for drinking in public?' I said "Hold on. I turned my back on him and chugged it, Then handed it to him. "There, now it's a nickle!"He laughed. The problem is, they require respect .;)If you can think you will win in a pi**ing contest, you wont. Their training says you re the enemy. When you show respect, by calling them "Officer, or for a Trooper ALWAYS "Trooper", you have a quarter of a chance. The training they have, has you a murderer NOW. To put them in a comfort zone helps you. If you chose to escalate,by not having both hands on your steering wheel, as they come to your window, your already f**ked.

ccmanuals
04-22-2011, 08:37 PM
My son in law is a detective in Irving. I can tell you that last thing you ever want to do other then don't talk to the police is never, ever give them smart ass lip.

CWSmith
04-22-2011, 08:39 PM
For us troglodytes on dial up, what's it say? That cops can be lousy bastards? I knew that one already. I've also known very decent folks who were cops.

Yes, there are good ones and bad ones, but that's not the point. The video teaches that there is nothing you can gain by speaking to a cop when you are a suspect. Even giving them a real and legit alibi can backfire. It is useful education and worth the time.

skipper68
04-22-2011, 08:51 PM
Many in my family are officers. IF, you are up to no good, they SMELL it! Respect is what they expect.IF you have nothing to hide, they will know. It really is true, it takes a criminal mind to know your wrong decisions. Dudley Doright.I really wanted to murder my EX. How the he** ya do that when his brother is the head of the NYS Troopers BCI ???? AAGGHH!!! ;)LOL

CWSmith
04-22-2011, 08:55 PM
Many in my family are officers. IF, you are up to no good, they SMELL it! Respect is what they expect.IF you have nothing to hide, they will know. It really is true, it takes a criminal mind to know your wrong decisions. Dudley Doright.I really wanted to murder my EX. How the he** ya do that when his brother is the head of the NYS Troopers BCI ???? AAGGHH!!! ;)LOL

I'm going to guess that the cop who threatened to beat me up one night because he was trying to pass me on a dark country road by flashing his high beams in my eyes instread of his reds was not one of your relatives.

Phillip Allen
04-22-2011, 08:55 PM
My son in law is a detective in Irving. I can tell you that last thing you ever want to do other then don't talk to the police is never, ever give them smart ass lip.

are you suggesting they will break a law to get even?

skipper68
04-22-2011, 09:05 PM
Yes, there are good ones and bad ones, but that's not the point. The video teaches that there is nothing you can gain by speaking to a cop when you are a suspect. Even giving them a real and legit alibi can backfire. It is useful education and worth the time. Very true..."I want my lawyer" stops them in their tracks. Good advice.-I was pulled over stone sober, but the captain was celebrating a retirment of a friend. Town cop wanted me to do the drunk dance, as SOMEONE smelled like a brewery in my car. He told me, to lift one leg, and recite the alphabet backwards from z , while touching my pinkie finger to my nose. I said no. I said my right hip was broke during birth in" 85" and YOU tell me the back asswards alphabet. He let me go.STUPID! No one could do that after the morning coffee for cripes sake, let alone when stressed from a pull over!

skipper68
04-22-2011, 09:18 PM
I'm going to guess that the cop who threatened to beat me up one night because he was trying to pass me on a dark country road by flashing his high beams in my eyes instread of his reds was not one of your relatives.Not mine, but Absolutely. They try to get the quota in.How can you tell w/o the top lights? Their getting more creative to pay their 70K starting salary now!i They will lie, and do what ever it takes.Criminal minds. Assume your prey.

skipper68
04-22-2011, 09:24 PM
An off duty Trooper got in a snit with a 18 Wheeler, hit him, trying to pull him over in his wifes car! Pulled a gun, confiscated his truck with back up! $18,000.00 that cost the state! Arrogance at it's best! Thats why I say, "Yes Sir". The best thing that ever happened is the dash cam. Keeps them -some what- honest.

skipper68
04-22-2011, 09:36 PM
I'm going to guess that the cop who threatened to beat me up one night because he was trying to pass me on a dark country road by flashing his high beams in my eyes instread of his reds was not one of your relatives.A story from 30 years ago- a custody fight. Ex family- Troopers. Judge gave me custody, but no one would enforce it. A Sheriff said, FK that-I will...He came out of it with his shirt ripped to shredds, and brought my 3 year old daughter home with tears in his eyes. YOU rip a Sheriffs shirt off! No charges-Troopers were there.Now it's diffrent though.

ishmael
04-22-2011, 09:38 PM
Cops are OK with me, except when they aren't. Just folks, like you and me.

skipper68
04-22-2011, 09:51 PM
We all get along good-BUT, I always show respect, and know THEY are scared when I get pulled over for a fund raiser. Havent paid anything but 75 in a 30mph,33 years ago..tranny slipping on my Fire Bird Trans AM It was fast when it kicked in...OOPS! Funny part is, new cop in town.I.tried to say it was slipping, just trying to get over the bridge and home..NOPE. I dropped my cop relatives name, and he said "Bad news lady, your getting a 75 in a 30! The judge dropped it to a 30 dollar infraction, then said "And it's so nice to finally meet you!!!"

ccmanuals
04-22-2011, 09:57 PM
are you suggesting they will break a law to get even?

Where did I say break the law or use the word get even?

perldog007
04-22-2011, 10:05 PM
are you suggesting they will break a law to get even? Maybe not always to get 'even' but surprisingly often in 'good faith' with some. Bottom line, don't make any admissions against interest. If they have enough to haul you in nothing you say will get you out of it. Don't take the opportunity to explain your side of things. They are allowed to lie to you. Omerta, it's not just for espresso drinkers anymore.

For the crowd that insists that religion can't teach us anything, the fifth amendment is based on Jewish law. So put that in your atheist bong and choke on it :D

skipper68
04-22-2011, 10:13 PM
The true word-they can lie, in their own interest. Their only asking questions, or making conversation to bust you. The best person they can bust is the innocent. "Tell me why that happened?" Shut up. ask for a lawyer. Pi$$ them off, but it's a better idea. They are NOT on your side, nor caring for your defence.

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 01:13 AM
Maybe not always to get 'even' but surprisingly often in 'good faith' with some. Bottom line, don't make any admissions against interest. If they have enough to haul you in nothing you say will get you out of it. Don't take the opportunity to explain your side of things. They are allowed to lie to you. Omerta, it's not just for espresso drinkers anymore.

For the crowd that insists that religion can't teach us anything, the fifth amendment is based on Jewish law. So put that in your atheist bong and choke on it :D

if that is directed at me then I am really confused... I'm not arguing against the 5th at all

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 01:15 AM
while I'm thinking about it...for cops to lie to me is a major sin against me... the courts may support the dishonesty but I do not now nor ever... what's good for the goose is good for the gander... cops need to suffer the same sanctions as I would for lying

ramillett
04-23-2011, 01:42 AM
Thanks Dutch , interesting information , good speakers Y>

perldog007
04-23-2011, 01:44 AM
if that is directed at me then I am really confused... I'm not arguing against the 5th at all nope, you're not the luminary that posted about how people who think that religion can teach us anything about how the physical world works are delusional. That was one of our progressives. The jist of the video is simply keep your mouth shut. Be respectful, kiss butt, but don't kiss and tell. Still it's worth watching because it's free education. If you ain't got 45 minutes to learn something, sucks to be you. :D

bobbys
04-23-2011, 02:52 AM
I always inform law enforcement officers Im paying their salary, That always seems to put them in their place and render a better understanding of their station in life compared to me.

AussieBarney
04-23-2011, 03:54 AM
A rule I learnt at the age of twelve. Name, Address and age. After that not a single word. "You have the right to remain silent" A right I take ever so seriously. They could say to me that it was anice day and I would not agree or disagree.

AussieBarney
04-23-2011, 04:02 AM
Many in my family are officers. IF, you are up to no good, they SMELL it! Respect is what they expect.IF you have nothing to hide, they will know. It really is true, it takes a criminal mind to know your wrong decisions. Dudley Doright.I really wanted to murder my EX. How the he** ya do that when his brother is the head of the NYS Troopers BCI ???? AAGGHH!!! ;)LOL
Why is it they want to demand respect. Respect is hard earned and easily lost. most cops lose it before they are on the job a week. You dont get respect just because you have a job. Here in NSW the worst thing I can do is ignore them that really tears 'em up. I ended up in court for abusing a cop when he pulled me over and started to give me the ten cent lecture along with the ticket. I said" just give me the ticket I dont want to hear you at all. The magistrate agreed with me. He asked the cop to quote the part of the traffic act that said I had to listen to anything he said. Small, I know, but, a win for the little bloke

stevebaby
04-23-2011, 04:59 AM
I always inform law enforcement officers Im paying their salary, That always seems to put them in their place and render a better understanding of their station in life compared to me.Yes,I was told that a few times when I was a cop.
I was always ready to do a mechanical inspection of their cars,and I never failed to find a defect.
People really should take better care of their vehicles,and I was happy to help them do so. :D

stevebaby
04-23-2011, 05:07 AM
Why is it they want to demand respect.99% of the cops I worked with didn't give a rat's about respect and didn't care another fat rat's about the loudmouths we had to deal with day in and day out. We were there to do a job for which we were told in training we would never be thanked for.
If you don't like that,then I suggest that the next time there's a dead rotting liquified and fly-blown body to be investigated,you go and do it yourself.
As a citizen,you are expected to respect the Law,of which the police are merely representatives,along with many others. If you don't like that either...the choice is yours. You will pay a penalty.
Go and start your own country,one where there are no police,and see how you like that.

jack grebe
04-23-2011, 06:01 AM
I always inform law enforcement officers Im paying their salary, That always seems to put them in their place and render a better understanding of their station in life compared to me.
That is the most screwed up post on the thread.......They get paid regardless of
whether or not you pay your taxes and they know it......just like you know all about
tax evasion if you don't pay them.

Paul Pless
04-23-2011, 06:09 AM
That is the most screwed up post on the thread........what are talking about?that post was funny as hell!

BrianW
04-23-2011, 06:23 AM
bobbys scores again. ;)

Ron Williamson
04-23-2011, 06:25 AM
Always remember bobbys initials are bs.
R

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 06:42 AM
Yes,I was told that a few times when I was a cop.
I was always ready to do a mechanical inspection of their cars,and I never failed to find a defect.
People really should take better care of their vehicles,and I was happy to help them do so. :D

see what I mean

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 06:47 AM
99% of the cops I worked with didn't give a rat's about respect and didn't care another fat rat's about the loudmouths we had to deal with day in and day out. We were there to do a job for which we were told in training we would never be thanked for.
If you don't like that,then I suggest that the next time there's a dead rotting liquified and fly-blown body to be investigated,you go and do it yourself.
As a citizen,you are expected to respect the Law,of which the police are merely representatives,along with many others. If you don't like that either...the choice is yours. You will pay a penalty.
Go and start your own country,one where there are no police,and see how you like that.

I do not respect the law...I respect the spirit of the law as I understand it...the law said "Black man be out of town by sunset"... the law said lots of things that did not deserve respect... the law undoubtably still says such things...I do not respect that and it is a poor excuse to bully people by others of low character

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 06:48 AM
Always remember bobbys initials are bs.
R

some can catch a sucker with absolutely no bait on the hook :)

stevebaby
04-23-2011, 06:53 AM
I do not respect the law...The law doe's not exist "as you understand it".It exists as the rest of society understands it. Every criminal on the planet has a personal interpretation of the law i.e that it does not apply to themselves. Prisons are full of people who think just like you do.
I'm not surprised that you were questioned as a suspect by the police. Your personal dishonesty is well illustrated by your posts and it's glaringly obvious.

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 07:00 AM
Steve... you just admitted you used the "respectable" law to punish people you didn't like... get a grip


Yes,I was told that a few times when I was a cop.
I was always ready to do a mechanical inspection of their cars,and I never failed to find a defect.
People really should take better care of their vehicles,and I was happy to help them do so. :D

you are a confirmed bully... deserving no respect at all

Rick-Mi
04-23-2011, 07:36 AM
Dutch, thanks for posting that great link. Not only did I invest 48 minutes to watch it, I'm going to do it again connected to our big screen TV with the entire family watching.

What better reason could there be regarding the importance of knowing such information than to have a crooked ex-cop on this very thread bragging about his abuse of power???

ccmanuals
04-23-2011, 07:41 AM
Steve... you just admitted you used the "respectable" law to punish people you didn't like... get a grip



you are a confirmed bully... deserving no respect at all

I don't see it that way at all. I see it as the officer giving the individual his full attention and iaw Bobbys his full money's worth. After all, he is paying his salary so he should get the officer's complete attention. :)

C. Ross
04-23-2011, 07:55 AM
what are talking about?that post was funny as hell!


The comic genius of bobbys is subtle. Blink and you miss it. But it's still pure genius.

skuthorp
04-23-2011, 08:14 AM
I always inform law enforcement officers Im paying their salary, That always seems to put them in their place and render a better understanding of their station in life compared to me.

Yair, right :D, why didn't I think of that Sir bobbys (see pond thread). Do you have a technique for calming them when they get somewhat agitated?

Dutch
04-23-2011, 08:21 AM
Yair, right :D, why didn't I think of that Sir bobbys (see pond thread). Do you have a technique for calming them when they get somewhat agitated?


thats when bobbys reaches for the box of donuts

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 08:31 AM
I don't see it that way at all. I see it as the officer giving the individual his full attention and iaw Bobbys his full money's worth. After all, he is paying his salary so he should get the officer's complete attention. :)

another bully...willing to use his personal power (with gun) to cow hapless and sometimes silly motorists...???

the kings of non judicial punishment...

at least Steve had enough sense to be embarrassed and leave...but not you!

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 08:33 AM
While going back to college on early morning trip, being bored, I started chatting with a trucker on the Maine thruway. I mean it was dead quiet. No one except this guy on the radio. We started to discuss what the state troopers did with the money collected on I95 and we came to the conclusion, while chuckling, that the policemens' ball was financed by those tickets. Lugging our was up a hill, I discovered that the left hand lane was blocked by construction signs. As the trcker was going slower than I was, he told me to go around him on the right.. Okay, I thought..no trffic, no one on the road, go for it. So there I was passing the trucker on the shoulder. My one headlight had a loose wire and the bulb flickered and went out and them back on while I was pulling this maneuver.The next thong I see in the rear view mirror is a set of blue lights...OOOPS! The statie comes to the the drivers' door asks for the usual ID, and then starts in on me about what the funds WERE NOT used for. Specifically the policemens' ball. I mean I was reamed and expecting to be handcuffed immediately. I asked him, as if I did not have an idea why I was stopped..(passing on the right). He told me my headlight was out. I said I did not think so..He goes around the front of the car and sees two lights glaring at him..OOPs on his part. He let me go but I am sure that he was looking for any excuse to pull me in. Glad he did not witness the ummm "passing on the right" maneuver.

However in MD, I pulled over a cop (statie) for speeding (80 plus) one time on Rte 40 with no lights or siren...I told him, when he waddled over, that he was only going out to a Dunkin Donuts and did not need to speed. He got all huffy. I pulled out the state's version of "Whose Who in Gov." and told him that I would be more than willing to call is commander of his barracks, if he wished...He declined the offer. Needless to say, he was royally pissed...Questioned me as to why I had CT plates and I worked for the state. I told him it was my private car and basically none of his business. Made him actually steam at that point...Finally drove off waving the booklet as I went. He followed me for I'd say,40 miles looking for any excuse to pull me over...

So I can be an as***hole with gronicles too!

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 08:36 AM
While going back to college on early morning trip, being bored, I started chatting with a trucker on the Maine thruway. I mean it was dead quiet. No one except this guy on the radio. We started to discuss what the state troopers did with the money collected on I95 and we came to the conclusion while chuckling that the policemens' ball was financed by those tickets. Lugging our was up a hill, I discovered that the left hand lane was blocked by construction signs. As the trcker was going slower than I was, he told me to go around him on the right.. Okay, I thought..no trffic, no one on the road, go for it. So there I was passing the trucker on the shoulder. My one headlight had a loose wire and the bulb flickered and went out and them back on while I was pulling this maneuver.The next thong I see in the rear view mirror is a set of blue lights...OOOPS! The statie comes to the the drivers' door asks for the usual ID, and then starts in on me about what the funds WERE NOT used for. Specifically the policemens' ball. I mean I was reamed and expecting to be handcuffed immediately. I asked him, as if I did not have an idea why I was stopped..(passing on the right). He told me my headlight was out. I said I did not think so..He goes around the front of the car and sees two lights glaring at him..OOPs on his part. He let me go but I am sure that he was looking for any excuse to pull me in. Glad he did not witness the ummm "passing on the right" maneuver

sometimes cops get bored too :)

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 08:46 AM
Phillip. he wasn't bored, he was pissed!

pss. He was a well known statie, on our college campus, between Waterville and Augusta. We named him Kojak as he was balder than an egg and sucked tootsie roll pops...

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 08:48 AM
I know...I got your point... I was just remembering my fireman days (nights) when bored cops would flock to the fire-scene to direct non-existing traffic but only when nothing else was going on

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 08:51 AM
In my town, there was basically a sheriff. State guys were rarely in evidence...We had retired firemen there that acted as fire police...Some were quite elderly but still involved with out vol. department.

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 08:53 AM
them was the goodel days

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 08:56 AM
Phillip..The Fly Creek squad has not changed, even today, one iota...:) Come to think of it, neither has the usual political shuffle in our vol. squad.

CWSmith
04-23-2011, 09:25 AM
If the police respected the law they are hired to enforce, thought less of their own opinion, and showed us the same respect that they expect from us, they would get it. There is a reason why the public fear and disrespect the police and it isn't the fear of being caught - it's the fear of being abused. Some police give the whole profession a bad name.

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 09:28 AM
I know that many police have college degrees but from what I can see, many only have a HS one plus the academy. I think many have a "chip on their shoulders" myself...Call it an academic "chip".

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 10:55 AM
If the police respected the law they are hired to enforce, thought less of their own opinion, and showed us the same respect that they expect from us, they would get it. There is a reason why the public fear and disrespect the police and it isn't the fear of being caught - it's the fear of being abused. Some police give the whole profession a bad name.

what's your best guess as to the percentage of bad and semi-bad cops in this nation? (I think it must be about half of them)

bobbys
04-23-2011, 10:58 AM
Yes,I was told that a few times when I was a cop.
I was always ready to do a mechanical inspection of their cars,and I never failed to find a defect.
People really should take better care of their vehicles,and I was happy to help them do so. :D.

Well played Sir, Well Played!

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 11:06 AM
way too subtle, Bobby

L.W. Baxter
04-23-2011, 11:44 AM
I have talked to the police and told them the truth many times without adverse consequences. Obviously, there is risk involved in interacting with anyone, police included. We might as well have a thread titled "don't take candy from strangers". Whatever.

The sociable, cooperative, and manly thing to do is to accept some risk, and help the people employed in public service to do their jobs effectively. On occasion it may be obvious that actively cooperating with authorities is the wrong course, but making a blanket statement "don't talk to cops" is an attitude I can't respect. If you go through your life like that, you are likely to fulfill your own prophecy of abuse. And the day you require assistance or protection from the authorities, your attitude makes you a hypocrite.

CWSmith
04-23-2011, 01:14 PM
what's your best guess as to the percentage of bad and semi-bad cops in this nation? (I think it must be about half of them)

I had and saw bad experiences throughout Maryland. I mentioned one above. The 4 troopers who pulled my mother over for driving too slow went out of their way to frighten her. The state troopers there are militant and seem to want to instill fright. Several counties are no better. Recently, some Baltimore police allowed a teenager to die on the sidewalk while they refused to allow passerbys to give aid (they had shot him when he drew a knife). They did not give aid nor would they let anyone else. We have all seen what the LA police are like. I think it's regional. I have been remarkably happy with the police here in NH.

CWSmith
04-23-2011, 01:17 PM
On occasion it may be obvious that actively cooperating with authorities is the wrong course, but making a blanket statement "don't talk to cops" is an attitude I can't respect.

The issue on the video, if you watch it, is "Don't talk to cops without a lawyer if you are a suspect." If you are a witness, I think it is expected you will help. Treating them with respect is always recommended. If you are in a room being "interviewed", you are a damn fool if you do not immediately and forever demand your right to legal representation. Even the police officer on the video said the same thing.

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 01:19 PM
Why does Calvert Co. come to mind?

CWSmith
04-23-2011, 01:26 PM
Why does Calvert Co. come to mind?

Atomic power plant? Fossils in Calvert Cliffs? Nice piece of Chesapeake Bay there if you're sailing through.

My experiences were in Howard County and outside Annapolis.

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 01:30 PM
Atomic power plant? Fossils in Calvert Cliffs? Nice piece of Chesapeake Bay there if you're sailing through.

My experiences were in Howard County and outside Annapolis. Heck I have not only sailed there but walked every inch of the shoreline for the USGS...Been there!!

L.W. Baxter
04-23-2011, 01:52 PM
The issue on the video, if you watch it, is "Don't talk to cops without a lawyer if you are a suspect." If you are a witness, I think it is expected you will help. Treating them with respect is always recommended. If you are in a room being "interviewed", you are a damn fool if you do not immediately and forever demand your right to legal representation. Even the police officer on the video said the same thing.

Okay. I guess I was a little confused by your first post on this thread, and I quote:


...Don't ever talk to the police without a lawyer!


If you meant to say, don't talk to police without a lawyer when being questioned as a suspect in a felony, then I agree, generally. But how do you know when you are being questioned as a suspect? If you are being questioned as a witness can you turn into a suspect due to something you might say? Of course you can.

So should all witnesses lawyer up? What if time is of the essence? Should you supply police with the information you have so they can investigate effectively, in the process exposing yourself to the small chance of being falsely accused, or do you shoulder some risk and do your duty as a citizen?

Or, how about, as a hypothetical, a trooper wants to see your fishing license and check your fishbox. Obviously, you are being questioned as a potential suspect. Do you refuse to answer simple questions about where you've been fishing, what for, with what gear, and what fish you have kept? "I want my lawyer!" LOL.

L.W. Baxter
04-23-2011, 02:10 PM
There was a story on "Cold Case" yesterday (my wife loves that show) of a guy who did 16 years for the murder of his son, who was released when proven innocent via confession and dna evidence. The guy at the end said "If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone." That is a true statement.

So. I ask myself. If one of my kids goes missing, in the first frantic hours when the police are asking questions to generate leads, do I lawyer up to protect myself? Everybody knows that the first thing cops do in the case of a missing kid is work to clear family members. Everyone's a suspect, until ruled out.

I would not lawyer up. I would answer all their questions as quickly as I could. I would take the risk of being unjustly punished, in order to facilitate the police investigation that might find my child.

htom
04-23-2011, 03:04 PM
I used to talk to cops freely, thinking I was innocent. Now ... I'm going to weigh my words very carefully. It appears that they have a different version of English than the one I speak and hear. Lawyer friends assure me that this is correct: I speak Engineer, they listen Cop.

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 03:10 PM
I used to talk to cops freely, thinking I was innocent. Now ... I'm going to weigh my words very carefully. It appears that they have a different version of English than the one I speak and hear. Lawyer friends assure me that this is correct: I speak Engineer, they listen Cop.

not all that different from the "gotcha" crowd here...I include myself :)

stevebaby
04-23-2011, 03:25 PM
Steve... you just admitted you used the "respectable" law to punish people you didn't like... get a grip



you are a confirmed bully... deserving no respect at allI really don't care what some semi-literate "thinks". My job was to prevent idiots from harming law-abiding citizens with unsafe vehicles,and I enjoyed doing so.
I neither liked or disliked most of the people I had to deal with. If people didn't want to receive defect notices,the choice was theirs.They could maintain their vehicles...or pay the penalty that society demands.
Maybe you would think differently if you had to do a "death knock" to tell some parent that their child had killed an innocent motorist or pedestrian and lost ther own life doing so,something I and many other cops had to do.But I doubt it.
Your anti-police attitude is something I am very familiar with.I put a lot of others who shared your attitude behind bars. They deserved it.

Your constant accusations of being "bullied" whwnever anyone disagrees with you or points out the truth make you a laughing stock. You do realize that,don't you? :D:D:D

stevebaby
04-23-2011, 03:39 PM
deleted

stevebaby
04-23-2011, 03:44 PM
Dutch, thanks for posting that great link. Not only did I invest 48 minutes to watch it, I'm going to do it again connected to our big screen TV with the entire family watching.

What better reason could there be regarding the importance of knowing such information than to have a crooked ex-cop on this very thread bragging about his abuse of power???Come on, be specific as to how I was crooked or abused the power invested in me by lawful citizens. You don't have the guts to do so in the first place,and you have absolutely no knowledge about my employment as a police officer,do you?
Come on,don't be a spineless jellyfish for all your of sad little worthless existence.

Dutch
04-23-2011, 04:11 PM
Steve-

Im sure you arent a complete jack ass in real life, but by all appearances on this particular thread, you are.

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 04:17 PM
Steve in some ways is being railroaded here Dutch.. I can understand his efforts to stand up for himself and others in that line of work, in adversity. Except for the two instances I have had with police, (mentioned), I really have had no issue with the ones I have met...But I could also see having the tables turned really quickly...

stevebaby
04-23-2011, 04:19 PM
Steve-

Im sure you arent a complete jack ass in real life, but by all appearances on this particular thread, you are.If you choose to delude yourself that your opinion matters one iota to me,that's your business.

bobbys
04-23-2011, 04:30 PM
Calm down Steve and i will not admit i made little Oink ,Oink sounds after i got my ticket!:D

stevebaby
04-23-2011, 04:31 PM
Meh...heard it all before. :D

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 04:34 PM
Steve I must admit.. I have had two speeding tickets..one going 55 in a 50 down hill. The second going up hill out on Rte 2 leaving Lee Ma.. Knowing the speed limit went from 35 to 45 around the corner, I anticipated a speed change.( especially as I was no longer in a town but on a rural road leaving the town) The cop was parked at the 45 mph sign.I mean she could have reached out the window of the car she was in and grabbed it..Clocked me at 46 in a 35.. Now that pissed me off...

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
04-23-2011, 04:37 PM
Or, how about, as a hypothetical, a trooper wants to see your fishing license and check your fishbox. Obviously, you are being questioned as a potential suspect. Do you refuse to answer simple questions about where you've been fishing, what for, with what gear, and what fish you have kept? "I want my lawyer!" LOL.

"How long you fellas been out here?"

"Three hours"

"What'cha usin'"

"Flies"

"You boys know it's Steelhead season don't ya"

"Yes, but we're just catching rainbows"

"Well, it's only 8:30, that means you were fishing before sunup with Steelhead gear without a permit. I'm gonna have to give you a ticket and take your poles."

bobbys
04-23-2011, 04:48 PM
I have around 15 friends and Neighbors, State Troopers ,City Cops, County cops, All good guys i would not be afraid to say anything to, Sure a few are Dudley do rights and would give their Grannies a ticket but will soon grow out of that. The Bad ones get weeded out fast i see. Its a job i would not want , I do object to towns having speed traps to collect revenue..

Few years ago we had a car and the new tags came in the mail but i forgot to put them on., My wife wanted to go to the movies 30 miles away, We were stopped 4 times, After the first i just waved my ticket and they laughed but thats how they catch bad guys.

Im a stickler for having my lights work with a lic plate light.

Strange thing is when i had a roofing truck filled with tools the lights never worked but i was never stopped, I think they thought i was a highway worker with the Tar equipment.

AussieBarney
04-23-2011, 05:03 PM
Steve, cops aren't heros , explain to me the flogging I got as a bloody twelve year old by a cop who weighed in at over 120 kilos, even though corporal punishment was outlawed in 1934 and I had not been sentenced to that flogging, explain to me why cops who are convicted of a crime still work as cops even though there is a law against cops having criminal convictions, explain to me the arrogant attutde, the sneers, the combat strut as they walk down the street, the need to inflict "Zero Tolerance" when they want the society who employs them to cut them all the slack. There is an old truism, it goes like this " If you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, and " no-one likes or admires a bully and most cops I have met are just that" End of rant. P.S. no-One has ever been conscripted to be a cop, it is a choice made by each person and they are well paid.

skuthorp
04-23-2011, 05:05 PM
Steve, police forces are not all equal in quality and it varies in time. look at WA at present, NSW under Askin, Qld under Joh and the abortion rackets in Victoria a few years ago. They are subject to political pressure, are required to be revenue raisers and become virtual bouncers for some very dodgy private enterprises under the banner of civil control.
That said a police force will be respected still because people generally can recognise the pressures police are under and wonder how anyone can do the job and stay sane. It inevitably become tribal, we are built that way, and to do the job at all requires some relief mechanism such as humor or cynicism or sometimes alchohol.
I'm not completely sure how various policing bodies are organised in relation to each other in the US or how their administrations are appointed but police are citizens too and reflect the make up of the society they are part of.

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 05:07 PM
When I was teaching in Danbury CT, I lived next to the K9 Unit..Well, the cop and his dog..Usually the cop showed up at home around 6pm and "Drugs" the dog, who shall I say was on free time was a great dog...Loved to play with my retriever.. Once his handler/owner asked me if it was okay for him to come over.. I said of course.."Drugs" came over all of the time....No issues..and he was a BIG shepard...

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 05:19 PM
I really don't care what some semi-literate "thinks". My job was to prevent idiots from harming law-abiding citizens with unsafe vehicles,and I enjoyed doing so.
I neither liked or disliked most of the people I had to deal with. If people didn't want to receive defect notices,the choice was theirs.They could maintain their vehicles...or pay the penalty that society demands.
Maybe you would think differently if you had to do a "death knock" to tell some parent that their child had killed an innocent motorist or pedestrian and lost ther own life doing so,something I and many other cops had to do.But I doubt it.
Your anti-police attitude is something I am very familiar with.I put a lot of others who shared your attitude behind bars. They deserved it.

Your constant accusations of being "bullied" whwnever anyone disagrees with you or points out the truth make you a laughing stock. You do realize that,don't you? :D:D:D

how do you reconcile that with your claim that you only searched for vehicle problems AFTER they had been rude to you?

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 05:25 PM
I really don't care what some semi-literate "thinks". My job was to prevent idiots from harming law-abiding citizens with unsafe vehicles,and I enjoyed doing so.
I neither liked or disliked most of the people I had to deal with. If people didn't want to receive defect notices,the choice was theirs.They could maintain their vehicles...or pay the penalty that society demands.
Maybe you would think differently if you had to do a "death knock" to tell some parent that their child had killed an innocent motorist or pedestrian and lost ther own life doing so,something I and many other cops had to do.But I doubt it.
Your anti-police attitude is something I am very familiar with.I put a lot of others who shared your attitude behind bars. They deserved it.

Your constant accusations of being "bullied" whwnever anyone disagrees with you or points out the truth make you a laughing stock. You do realize that,don't you? :D:D:D

It just gets worse... now you claim that someone here (I think it is directed at me) is semi-literate yet you have no proof at all... sounds like a cop..."I don't need no stinkin proof"

THIS one is truly scary... "Your anti-police attitude is something I am very familiar with.I put a lot of others who shared your attitude behind bars. They deserved it." If you perceive an anti-police "attitude" then you consider that putting the possessor of the assumed attitude should be locked in a cage!!!

you must have been fired and locked up yourself... right? How many more cops are like you... scary

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 05:29 PM
I got another one Steve, Sir..."Your constant accusations of being "bullied" whwnever anyone disagrees with you or points out the truth make you a laughing stock. You do realize that,don't you?"

how about finding some posts where I "constantly" complained about being bullied... remember that "constantly" implies many times....I notice you claim not to look stuff up so I looked it up for you...none at all :)

LOKI
04-23-2011, 05:49 PM
Been innocent and made the mistake of thinking that by talking it would prove so....WRONG! Never again will I trust a cop. A 250 lb. sack of sh*t in a police uniform is still a 250 lb. sack of sh*t.

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 06:01 PM
Been innocent and made the mistake of thinking that by talking it would prove so....WRONG! Never again will I trust a cop. A 250 lb. sack of sh*t in a police uniform is still a 250 lb. sack of sh*t.

tell that to officer steve... he'll find a "broken" tail light for ya

CWSmith
04-23-2011, 06:04 PM
Increasingly, it is a crime to photograph (video) a police officer while on the job. (I was going to say "doing his duty", but all too often what we're really talking about is abusing his authority.) What can possibly justify a law such as this and how does it serve society? If he is acting within the law, it proves it. If not, it needs to be seen. It's like the police always say "If you're not hiding anything, why won't you let us search?"

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 06:08 PM
Increasingly, it is a crime to photograph (video) a police officer while on the job. (I was going to say "doing his duty", but all too often what we're really talking about is abusing his authority.) What can possibly justify a law such as this and how does it serve society? If he is acting within the law, it proves it. If not, it needs to be seen. It's like the police always say "If you're not hiding anything, why won't you let us search?"

I hope it is challenged soon before too many more citizens are abused

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 06:14 PM
I still wonder why cell phones are exempt for police in cars. The reason seems to be that the police need them for business. To me, they have several ways to communicate without them right in their vehicles.
To me, they are unnecessary unless someone is calling a girlfriend on the side or checking on a shopping list.. Cell phones are not necessary. They can cause accidents as easily as civilians on cell phones...

LOKI
04-23-2011, 06:20 PM
I'm thinking that maybe it was "Officer Steve" or perhaps his brother who I dealt with. Funny thing is that growing up , in my circle of friends, I was always the one who said that if you had nothing to hide, the law was your friend. ROFLMAO Ha-Ha the joke was on me!

stevebaby
04-23-2011, 06:34 PM
Increasingly, it is a crime to photograph (video) a police officer while on the job. (I was going to say "doing his duty", but all too often what we're really talking about is abusing his authority.) What can possibly justify a law such as this and how does it serve society? If he is acting within the law, it proves it. If not, it needs to be seen. It's like the police always say "If you're not hiding anything, why won't you let us search?"Aren't you lucky to live in The Land of The Free?
It is not an offence in any Australian jurisdiction to photograph police officers.

S.V. Airlie
04-23-2011, 06:36 PM
It seems to be here, more often than you think...

stevebaby
04-23-2011, 06:49 PM
Steve, cops aren't heros , explain to me the flogging I got as a bloody twelve year old by a cop who weighed in at over 120 kilos, even though corporal punishment was outlawed in 1934 and I had not been sentenced to that flogging, explain to me why cops who are convicted of a crime still work as cops even though there is a law against cops having criminal convictions, explain to me the arrogant attutde, the sneers, the combat strut as they walk down the street, the need to inflict "Zero Tolerance" when they want the society who employs them to cut them all the slack. There is an old truism, it goes like this " If you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, and " no-one likes or admires a bully and most cops I have met are just that" End of rant. P.S. no-One has ever been conscripted to be a cop, it is a choice made by each person and they are well paid.Quite obviously,I can't explain why you got a flogging from a cop. I can only say that I never had anything to do with any police (until I got a driver's licence!) and neither did many of my friends. Why were you in custody in the first place?
Just as you can't explain why I was stabbed,punched,kicked,scratched,spat on,urinated on or had to clean faeces from my car. The repeated insults (which would earn the offenders a smack in the mouth in any pub)I ignored,just as most other cops do.
I haven't a clue what a "combat strut" is...perhaps you could explain that one.
Personally,I live close to a large public housing estate where the residents are constantly victimised by petty crime. I'm always glad to see cops on patrol around here.

CWSmith
04-23-2011, 06:54 PM
Aren't you lucky to live in The Land of The Free?
It is not an offence in any Australian jurisdiction to photograph police officers.

I love Australia! I really do. Not the snakes, but yes to the people.

As for the land of the free, we have become the land of the frightened. We have politicians and pundits telling us to be frightened (although not of the police - of each other) and we believe it. We have all the freedoms we have the courage to vote for and demand, which lately is far less than what the founding fathers had in mind.

stevebaby
04-23-2011, 07:08 PM
I got another one Steve, Sir..."Your constant accusations of being "bullied" whwnever anyone disagrees with you or points out the truth make you a laughing stock. You do realize that,don't you?"

how about finding some posts where I "constantly" complained about being bullied... remember that "constantly" implies many times....I notice you claim not to look stuff up so I looked it up for you...none at all :)See my signature lines...they're direct quotes from you.

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 07:12 PM
See my signature lines...they're direct quotes from you.

that's exactly why I looked it up for you... you're welcome

skipper68
04-23-2011, 07:18 PM
You would be surprised at the amount of AUO's in our small towns. If you swear in front of, or at an officer,it is assault upon an officer. The town cops a month ago had to call in the troopers AND the sheriffs for back up. Guess why? A 16 year old girl-unarmed..oh them teenagers! They're the laughing stocks of the county now. :)

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 07:21 PM
You would be surprised at the amount of AUO's in our small towns. If you swear in front of, or at an officer,it is assault upon an officer. The town cops a month ago had to call in the troopers AND the sheriffs for back up. Guess why? A 16 year old girl-unarmed..oh them teenagers! They're the laughing stocks of the county now. :)

I'm sure steve would find a broken light on your car if he could... and you would DESERVE it! (rolling my eyes)

Canoeyawl
04-23-2011, 07:26 PM
"the policemen and politicians, likewise, for these are the dust-licking pimps and slaves of the scum, there as well as elsewhere in America."

Mark Twain

PeterSibley
04-23-2011, 07:32 PM
A real them and us thread , a bit sad in many ways .I've had trouble with cops as a young hippy but that was to be expected and it was a learning experience and not painful .Since then I've got back what I've given and it has been entirely satisfactory .

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
04-23-2011, 07:35 PM
I haven't a clue what a "combat strut" is...perhaps you could explain that one.


I can't speak for Barney, but the image I get is the saunter a d!ck cop has as he's approaching you with the news that he's about to do something to really mess up your day 'cuz he doesn't like the way you didn't bow to his authority. You know, stuff like an un-warranted vehicle inspection, or putting you in cuffs for his safety.

CWSmith
04-23-2011, 07:39 PM
A real them and us thread , a bit sad in many ways .I've had trouble with cops as a young hippy but that was to be expected and it was a learning experience and not painful .Since then I've got back what I've given and it has been entirely satisfactory .

First, why was that expected? Being a hippy isn't breaking the law. Are you saying you were caught smoking pot, or are you justifying bullying by an authority that doesn't approve of your values?

Second, I've met some great cops now that I'm older, but I can honestly say I've never shown disrespect to an officer and I was not always treated properly. Plus, I wonder if one reason I'm now treated better is that I'm old enough to be a problem to a bully.

There are good cops and bad cops. The only problem is that they both have power over us and society as a whole is slow to judge them when they're wrong.

PeterSibley
04-23-2011, 07:39 PM
I can't speak for Barney, but the image I get is the saunter a d!ck cop has as he's approaching you with the news that he's about to do something to really mess up your day 'cuz he doesn't like the way you didn't bow to his authority. You know, stuff like an un-warranted vehicle inspection, or putting you in cuffs for his safety.

Not to me it doesn't .

There are dickheads in the police force here as anywhere .They like the power and the semi immunity the uniform gives BUT they are not that common in my experience ,you watch out for them the way you do for bastards in any situation .

PeterSibley
04-23-2011, 07:45 PM
First, why was that expected? Being a hippy isn't breaking the law. Are you saying you were caught smoking pot, or are you justifying bullying by an authority that doesn't approve of your values?



The reason it wasto be expected is that they were working class country cops not overly sophisticated in their thinking .I didn't get thumped ,I gave the right answers ,said I was vet science student at the local university and definitely carried no dope ....Veterinarians are on the right hand of God in the North .I learned quickly how to deal with large blokes who where not overly friendly .....in uniform or not .The cops were certainly NOT the most dangerous blokes I met .

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
04-23-2011, 07:47 PM
There are dickheads in the police force here as anywhere .They like the power and the semi immunity the uniform gives BUT they are not that common in my experience ,you watch out for them the way you do for bastards in any situation .

That's true, but I think we have a different brand of cop in the states. Ask dingo about that. He posted once about his surprise when he encountered a cop who approached in the typical manner, with his hand on his gun. The upside down cops seem a little different to me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2NhQmZ3S6E

CWSmith
04-23-2011, 07:48 PM
The reason it wasto be expected is that they were working class country cops not overly sophisticated in their thinking .I didn't get thumped ,I gave the right answers ,said I was vet science student at the local university and definitely carried no dope ....Veterinarians are on the right hand of God in the North .I learned quickly how to deal with large blokes who where not overly friendly .....in uniform or not .The cops were certainly NOT the most dangerous blokes I met .

If you consider them your employees, they don't seem to deserve a raise, either.

PeterSibley
04-23-2011, 07:53 PM
Last time I was in EnZed I saw a couple of cops with a drunk outside a pub. He was staggering and swearing at them .I though Oh Bugger , this bloke is going to end up down that lane and very sore .
They hailed a cab ,shoved him in the back and told the driver to deliver him home .I was gobsmacked .It wouldn't happen here .

PeterSibley
04-23-2011, 07:54 PM
If you consider them your employees, they don't seem to deserve a raise, either.

They were alright , just men ,not particularly bad or good .It was up to me to display then intelligence as I was the one offering the unusual stimulus ! :d

Phillip Allen
04-23-2011, 09:06 PM
Last time I was in EnZed I saw a couple of cops with a drunk outside a pub. He was staggering and swearing at them .I though Oh Bugger , this bloke is going to end up down that lane and very sore .
They hailed a cab ,shoved him in the back and told the driver to deliver him home .I was gobsmacked .It wouldn't happen here .

sounds like some of the "good" stories from a couple of generations ago...of course there were bad stories too

PeterSibley
04-23-2011, 09:13 PM
There are always bad stories if you want to look for them .Our cops seem reasonable most of the time .