kayak designs for my mom

[jwswanboats]

Hello all,
I am gonna to toss this out into the ether and see what becomes of it.

I am going to build my mom a kayak for her birthday (she'll be 55). She has been a water hound all her life, canoeing, swimming and sailing, but in the last few years she's gotten into kayaking. her most recent trip being a 200 mile paddle down the MN, WI, IA stretch of the ol' Miss. anyhow, she's about 5'4", 145 lbs,and strong (14yrs running a dairy farm). I was thinking of something with good stability, for mostly flat water, but also able to handle a little weather (i am moving to duluth in 6 months and poking around the apostles is right up her alley). also something that she could cartop and store by herself. i'd like to stay away from strip construction-personal preference- no insults or self-righteousness intended. i've built a wide range of wooden boats and have a full shop, so i'm i am not too worried about anything that might have a difficult curveball or two (famous last words). with that said, what do the experts here think?
sincerely,
Josh
P.S. I've got time on my side, but i want to get cracking, as we all know how these things can get away.

[JimD]

Take a look at Tursiops, beamy, stable 15er, multichine plywood. Has a narrow flat bottom panel instead of the typical v, which is very practical for launching and for adding a sacraficial bottom if you like. I put a transom on mine so without the pointy stern it is only 14 1/2 feet, so very easily handled but plenty of volume for gear. Nice plywood kayak.

[Hans Friedel]

If she does 200 miles trips she is a pretty serius paddler. Most kayaks are made for shorter day trips.

Also many females have better balance than males and they prefer faster kayaks (they dont like bathtubs). So I would look for a longer slimmer kayak, it is very important that the freeboards are not to high if you are a smaller paddler it is important that you dont hit the deck with your hands when you are paddling.

I would look fore a more performans typ of touring kayak.

Hans

[Three Cedars]

You said the magic words of "also something that she could cartop and store by herself" Anything over 30 lbs is pretty much the comfort limit for most women and 25 lbs is better. Since I'm familiar with SOF kayaks I would make a kayak 14' long by 25" ish wide. Made mostly of a western red cedar frame with yellow cedar or oak ribs and would weigh no more than 23 lbs , skinned it would weigh at most 29 lbs

I'd also carefully think about a canoe as they are just easier to get you and gear in and out of and you can change your seating position. Canoes are very handy.

[LeeG]

What kind of kayak did she do that trip with? Was she in a solo kayak with thigh bracing where rolling/bracing is a given? Hans hit it on the head. Women can handle a tippier kayak than top heavy men. But if she can't roll then getting her a narrow kayak is an expectation that she'll be learning. Pygmys Arctic Tern14 would be an excellent choice for stable and light,,Shearwater Merganser 16 for less windage/more straight line speed. I haven't paddled Hans' kayaks available from Newfound but as long as he's here maybe he could make a comparison to those two?

[ 01-09-2005, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: LeeG ]

[Hans Friedel]

Hi Lee

Well the Newfound Explorer has become very popular among youngsters and lighter paddlers. And for its length is a very fast kayak and kids have the same problem with slower kayaks as womens have.

Otherwise the Spirit is a popular touring kayak. But I would chose the bigger cockpit.

Here is a f.....s kayak I have designed for a Swedish company and it is also popular among women to my surprice. I actually designed it for people who wants to race and do faster trips. But womens likes the speed

http://www.trapperkanot.se/barracuda/snyggx.JPG

Hans

[Boomkin Joe]

If she has to cartop alone, a skin-on-frame would be a logical answer.
A take-apart would be easier yet, as you can choose either to cartop or to pack it.

[jwswanboats]

hey all,
thanks for all your helpful input. Three cedars, I have thought about a solo canoe quite a bit. somethinglike a vaux jr. or harry bryan's boat(i forget the name, fiddleback i think) as i tend toward a more open boat, but that's totally subjective. I think she would prefer a kayak, and i think a kayak can offer more performance and seaworthiness than a solo canoe of similiar dimensions-but don't quote me on that-i am sure someone out there fundamentally disagrees. anyhow, you all seem to agree that she could handle a higher performance hull, albeit with a little more learning curve. i should give my mom more credit-i think you guys are right on.
up until now she's been borrowing a friends kayak.
i don't know what it is(i am not too good on kayak i.d. ing), but it looks like anything one might find on a big stand of boats at a big box sporting goods store, a little chunky, a little short.
as per skin on frame construction, what type of skin material are we discussing (i realize a quick google search could answer this question too). dacron? canvas? i was curious about the plywood kayak with the small bottom board. They mention it is advantangeous because there is no fiberglass or epoxy. is it purely mechanically fastened and then finished? that sounds pretty bitchin' but i thought that was the cornerstone of modern plywood construction.
lastly, and this is may be putting the cart berfore the horse, but how does one go about fitting out the cockpit arrangement so that it fits the paddler? do i build in the ability to fine tune, or is the comfort factor more forgiving? i.e. one size fits a fair bit.
thanks,
Josh
p.s. hans, that is sure a handsome kayak. what are the advantages of the severe deck camber just forward of the cockpit? it reminds me of the herreschoff "dugout".

[LeeG]

Originally posted by jwswanboats:

up until now she's been borrowing a friends kayak.
i don't know what it is(i am not too good on kayak i.d. ing), but it looks like anything one might find on a big stand of boats at a big box sporting goods store, a little chunky, a little short.
.ok,,it's a rec. kayak not a touring kayak,,this is different,,,it would be worth getting a stable kayak where rolling and bracing is not a fundamental skill just to use the kayak with rolling an option down the line. Most folks who own touring kayaks don't learn how to roll and manage fine for a couple years or unless the find themselves being rescued too often. Off the top of my head the Arctic Tern 14 would be a good choice. You could use 4oz glass instead of 6oz glass throughout with a doubled layer on the exterior bottom panels and save a couple pounds.

[Don Maurer]

As far as fitting out the boat, I use carpet tape to hold the seat and thigh braces temporarily in position until I get it right. Then I use contact cement to make them permanent.

[Boomkin Joe]

JW,

You'll find one good forum on skin-on-frame kayak building
here (http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/GreenlandTechniqueForum_config.pl)

and one good site on self-built take-aparts
there (http://yostwerks.com/MainMenu.html)

Both give recent tips on skinning.

[Hans Friedel]

Thanks

Well the low freeboards makes it apears higher than it is.

The higher deck makes the kayak less wet and since it is an touring kayak it is nice to have some space to move arund in. You can get pretty stiff after some hours of paddling.

Also when I was (much) younger I saild IC-canoe And I have always liked the deck style of this boat

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010777

Hans

[Paul Scheuer]

Food for thought, 15-ft. Folbot Sporty, rigid, skin on frame. Not particularly light with a double vinyl bottom, but certaily durable. At about 60 lbs, I strap on a wheeled dolly if I'm going far.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p2cafbb89fbeb7d5eb6686862c010a22c/fb5fef5a.jpg

The heavy outer skin being stretched over several months durng construction.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid154/p24d86f4bedbd8255337d6ff468eb5d70/f5825abc.jpg

[JEM]

You mentioned being able to handle some weather. So do you mean adding a spray skirt or something?

It sounds like you want something simple and effective.

http://jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=CF

It's my website so forgive the self promo. :rolleyes:

[JEM]

Originally posted by jwswanboats:
how does one go about fitting out the cockpit arrangement so that it fits the paddler? do i build in the ability to fine tune, or is the comfort factor more forgiving? ".I say build it without seating (providng the design can tolerate that) and then take it out with some different thickness pads to adjust for different heights. I used a few books wrapped in plastic.

See which height provides the best blend of comfort and stability. Once you have that, then start tinkering with seat angle, back rest, foam, etc.

[Chris Stewart]

For a very basic skin on frame kayak that looks a bit like the folbot above but is lighter and ought to be a piece of cake to build, see

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/projects/sof/index.htm

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/projects/sof/300.jpg

[Hans Ribbens]

My first kayak was for my wife who, though well aquainted with water and water sports, is not a huge fan of swimming, canoeing, or sailing. I settled on the Merganser. Somewhat naively, I decided that the scarfing of three sections of ply was unnecessary. I scaled the entire set of plans back about 11% so I could just squeeze it onto 16' of ply. This also made a narrow boat even narrower. The end result is a sports car of a kayak; I have never paddled its equal for speed. It also handles well for the compromise we like (namely good tracking over quick turning). I find it tender. I am 5'11" and 185. She adores it and claims she feels absolutely at one with the water. She is 5'6" and 135. If I can figure out how, I'll post a picture or two of the completed boat.

Hans