Oselvaren & Fembøringen

[Boomkin Joe]

Sailors,

An upcoming project is to build an oselvar, which is, in short, a small Viking boat.
They are lapstrake but made of large strakes.

Have some of you been thru a similar experience?

The sheerstrake seems vertical, particularly on a fembøring, just like the bottom strake. And in between, the three intermediate planks seems parallel one to another, so that they're not set at an angle.
Can you confirm this? I have no cross-section drawing to look at. That would make building much easier as you wouldn't have to bevel the edges which is the tough job there if I'm correct.

Thank you.

Oselvaren (http://www.oselvarverkstaden.no/sider/bygging.html)

Fembøringen (http://www.eldjarnbaat.no/femboring.html)

[ 09-10-2004, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Boomkin Joe ]

[RonW]

here - here - looks neat, are you going to use the same type of tablesaw as well? A hand cranked model.Interesting.

http://www.oselvarverkstaden.no/images/preview15.jpg

[ 09-10-2004, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: RonW ]

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Cool sites! I wish I could read the second one. oh well.
I think you need more than a cross section drawing. You need to get some actual plans. While these boats were traditionally built without plans if you haven't learned from a traditional builder and have access to his patterns and years of experience you will not build a decent boat without some plans. Fortunately three incredibly talented boat designers have developed plans for Oselver style boats. You can even get a kit! First is Joel White's Shearwater design. Second is John Atkin's Valgerda and third is Iain Oughtred's Elf (and Elf's larger sister soon to be available, Elfyn) White's Shearwater is 16', Oughtred's Elf is 15' (I'm helping my 14 year old son build one of these), and Atkin's Valgerda is 18'.
The Oselver boats are just a regional version of a Faering - meaning four oars. There are other Faerings from other regions of Norway. To really learn about Faerings get the two part series of articles from Maritime Life and Traditions Magazine. Numbers 19 and 21. Fantastic articles. Maybe you can get them from your library.
Search here for more info.
Good luck.

Steven

[Jon Etheredge]

an oselvar, which is, in short, a small Viking boat.
If you want to build a small Viking boat, you might talk to the folks at the Viking Ships Museum in Oslo. I believe they can supply drawings of the small Viking boat that was found with the Gokstad ship.



Have some of you been thru a similar experience?
I haven't built a boat from the Oselvar region but I did attend boatbuilding school in Norway and built several boats from the Afjord region.



The sheerstrake seems vertical, particularly on a fembøring,
This will probably seem pedantic but...

You've got a mixture of terms here. The traditional boats of Norway are very regionalized just as they are in the rest of world. An Oselvar is a boat from a particular region. Examples of other regions include Afjord, Nordland, Sunnmøre, Hardanger, etc. Within each region, various sizes of boats are built. Fembøring is a size of boat. Other sizes of boats (at least as they are called in the Afjord region) in increasing size include faering, saekstreng (or seksring), halvfjer-rømming, fyreng, femrøing (or lestabåt), fembørdeng (or fembøring), toskgarnsbåt, and storbåt (or Lofot-båt). Based on the shape of the forefoot, sheer, and stem profile, I believe that the fembøring being built on the website link that you provided is a Nordland boat. I am pretty sure that Gunnar Eldjarn (it's his website) is known as an authority on Nordlands boats.

The sheer strake is more upright on the boats from Nordland than it is on the boats from Oselvar. The shape of the boats from different regions vary quite a lot. The variation in the shape of the boats from one size to the next is generally very small if you are comparing boats from the same region.



The three intermediate planks seems parallel one to another, so that they're not set at an angle.
Can you confirm this? I have no cross-section drawing to look at. That would make building much easier as you wouldn't have to bevel the edges which is the tough job there if I'm correct.
All of the planks will require at least some beveling along their length.

The traditional boats are not built using drawn plans. But this does not mean plans aren't used, only that they aren't recorded as lines drawings. In Afjord (and I believe in most other regions as well) the boats are built to a system of proportions. Almost all of the critical measurements used in the construction of the boat are related to the length over the "halsane" which is the distance between the points where the garboard intersects the keel/stem at the bow and stern. The angle of the planks at certain points on the boat are also known.

If you want to build a boat from the Afjord or Nordland regions, there is a 4 volume series of books that would be very helpful. Unfortunately, I don't think they have been translated to English. The books are <U>Nordlandsbåten og Afjordsbåten</U> by Gunnar Eldjarn and Jon Godal, published by A. Kjellands Forlag A.S.

I'm not sure if there are comparable books about the boats from Oselvar.

One of the modernized designs already mentioned would be much easier to build.

[ 09-11-2004, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Jon Etheredge ]

[bainbridgeisland]

Expanding on your question and adding a little bit to what Jon said.

What you are seeing in the posted pictures is traditional Scandinavian lapstrake boatbuilding. The same method was used in the USA to produce dories whitehalls and so forth. A boat like this would usually be planked without any transverse frames or molds. Transverse members would be added after the planking was finished.

The basic shape of the boat is controlled by the stem, the keel (or flat bottom) and the transom or aft stem. Sometimes a removable mold would be used amidships to guide the builder as he creates planks. The curve on the bottom edge of the plank combined with its bevel establish the final shape of the hull within the above structure. So you see even though the planks may look like they have straight lines, they do not. They are sweeping curves between the stem, transom and amidships control points.

Building a boat this way seems a lot harder than it is. The methods most builders are familiar with today are actually more difficult. I think most of them are just easier to understand. It is also an extremely fast way to build a boat. I used to work with a guy who planked a 15' boat every day using this method. The riveting took much longer than fitting the planks.

[Jon Etheredge]

Having built lapstrake boats over molds and without using molds, I don't feel that there is anything inherent in building without molds that makes the method faster. After all, you still have to determine the shape of the plank, cut the bevels, and hang the plank no matter which method you use. In other words, the actual planking process is identical whether you use molds or not.

I have been told that experienced builders usually took about 1 man-week to complete an Afjord faering (approx. 19' LOA) in the heyday of traditional boatbuilding. This time included building a framed up hull, 4 oars, mast, and yard (these boats use a square rig). In my opinion, this short build time is influenced by a number of factors but building without molds is not one of them. I think that the biggest factors in the short time needed to build these boats are:

- There are no rabbetts in the backbone. Planks are beveled to fit against the stem and keel and nailed in place with a strand of cotton and some pine tar.

- All wood in the boat is scarfed to length but there is no glue used so you never have to wait for glue to set. The joints are riveted with pine tar in the joint.

- Sandpaper is never used. I don't recall that there was any sandpaper in the shop where I worked. Planks were taken straight from the planer and hung on the boat even if there were nicks in the planer knife that left lines on the plank. They didn't use scrapers either.

- Plank stock was planed before hand.

- There are only 5 planks per side.

- The boats are nailed and riveted with galvanized steel (iron traditionally) fasteners. There are no screws or bolts used anywhere in the boat which would take more time and be more expensive. Using the stronger, steel or iron fasteners allows setting rivets on 6-8 centers instead of the usual 3-4 inch centers that is common for copper rivets. Fewer rivets means less time peening the ends.

- The traditional riveting tool is a cross peen hammer with the cross end ground to a vee shape. This make upsetting the end very fast. The peening is done with the flat face of the hammer. The rivets were only peened enough to hold the rove but no time or effort was wasted on rounding over the sharp peened edges. The buyer was expected to do this part and it was necessary or else they would tear up their nets on the rivet ends.

- The boat was sold without any finish of any sort. No oil, no paint, no black varnish, nothing.

- They built the same boat over and over and over... This kind of experience meant that they could grab a board and cut it to the required shape for a particular plank without use of a pattern or any sort of spiling. And it would only require minor fitting before it was ready to hang.

Yes, there is overhead (time and money) in building molds. If you are building a series of boats that are all the same, the time to build the molds will be amortized over the number of boats you build and the time is a wash.

If you are building a one-off boat, then building without molds may save time if you are experienced with the method.

For an inexperienced builder, I don't think there will be any time saved by building without molds, with a small number of molds, or over a shadow mold.

But, different strokes...

smile.gif

[bainbridgeisland]

I agree with much of what Jon says.

The example I gave was in a production line setting. However, I watched the same Shipwright build an 8' lapstrake pram entirely, though unfinished, in two days. It was built without temporary molds of any kind. I don't think planking took much more than half a day. The rest of the time was spent on transoms, keel, frames and thwarts. The method replaces set up time with more skill. If you have the skill, it can be a fast method.

I have never built a lapstrake boat this way myself. But as a Shipwright, I have watched associates, experienced with the method, turn out many small boats. It was their opinion that it was the fastest method for one-off lapstrake boat building. They tell me this method of lapstrake boatbuilding is self fairing. If you get the ends right and the bevel at amidships correct, it is easy to produce a fair boat.

As with most boatbuilding skills, if you know how to do the job it is not terribly difficult. One of the guys I worked with was teaching amateurs how to build this way in night school. His students built some nice boats. Based on this, I think reasonable carpenters can be successful with the method. No doubt the learning curve would not allow them to be quick to begin with. But this is true for any method.

I present these ideas because many in the forum are not too familiar with the method and also many boat building texts on the subject do not cover this practice well. Many take this text or that text as gospel, not realizing that another method even exists and has much to offer. It deserves to be used by more of us but will not be for everyone.

[Jon Etheredge]

bainbridge,

Good points and well said.

It is easy to fall in to the trap of thinking that there is a single, right way to do things. I know I go down that path on occasion. Probably too many occasions at that.

[lagspiller]

I have some experience with the Oselver, have seen them being built, live near the Oselver workshop and know some of the guys who build them. Today I am actually supposed to be racing an Oselver ... but have a meeting and cannot participate.

I agree with most of what has been written about the design. Except that I would claim it is more difficult to build and will take more time than has been suggested - and that the finished products are anything but rough. And never were. You might be able to build something vaguely similar to an Oselver in a short time. But not an Oselver. The pro's making them today use months rather than weeks.

The Oselver Workshop was founded in the recent past when a number of public and private instances became alarmed that the last of the craftsmen with real knowledge of producing the design were dieing out. Many of the knowledgable people in traditional boat building here in Norway thought the design would be lost with the present generation if nothing was done. The Oselver workshop has preserved the continuity of the craftsmanship... and trains new apprentices. An apprentice at the workshop learns to build Oselvers, and nothing else. I am not sure of the exact length of the study, but it is at least one year. Probably more.

It is not a boat that can be built in a night-school class.

[Boomkin Joe]

Nice stack of replies. Fascinating detail on rivets, Jon! What a great workshop experience!
I guess the oselvar and the fembøring have more common points than differences in construction.

Yet the fembøring's garboard is interesting as it's one piece that's tortured to the effect that it's set diagonally to the keel amidship, though it's nailed parallel to the bow and stern stem pieces.
It looks like on the oselvar it is compound, because perhaps on that shorter hull type compression would slit or break a tortured garboard blank. Just guessing there.

Bainbridge, I guess your argument is similar to the lapstrake vs strip-planked argument.
Lapstrake is fast only if you've acquired the knowledge, which takes time to learn.
But that's just what's so fascinating about lapstrake: once you've got the skill you can build in a reasonable time wherever you are.

So it depends what proportion of grey matter and elbow grease you want to pour into the mix, depending on what you're wont to do best after work, thinking or sanding-filing, fanding-siling...

The bevel rolls and swivels along the strake, as they say. So I might try a simplified hull for a start, like they show in kits.
Yet I find varnish and a preppy look don't suit such hulls, so I'll tar the panels.
All them bright yachty hulls look effete to me now, anyway. :D

I guess on such a project I'm supposed to glue or epoxy the panels, but I'd have preferred to rivet them. But could they fit a sail to their skiffs?

Teenagers project (http://www.birlinn.org/skiffg.htm)

[ 09-15-2004, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: Boomkin Joe ]

[Todd Bradshaw]

The last thing I saw on Oselver construction indicated that the garboards were actually hewn from a thick plank with a twist in them toward each end. It didn't sound like there was a lot of torturing involved in the process of installing them. WoodenBoat had a good, though fairly short article on Alfred Sovik (one of the old Oselver master builders) about 20 years ago which is worth getting hold of. It had a couple neat photos as well, like this one:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid86/p4db91c3093eda692e87f3f293da70dcf/faaf6d3a.jpg

The Apprenticeshop also published a booklet containing some of the same stuff and more.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid87/pe24606bc5129d8581bee946d41c1d5cc/faa7e44b.jpg

It would also be worth trying to find a copy of the book "Inshore Craft of Norway" (Conway Maritime Press) which has lots and lots of detail and lines drawings for various types of traditional Norwegian boats.

[Oyvind Snibsoer]

The garboards are traditionally axed into a twisted shape, although today I believe it's more common to just use a bandsaw. So no torturing involved here. The build time for a new Oselvar is ~250 man hours for an experienced builder.

[Jon Etheredge]

Seems to be some confusion. I tried to be very careful about stating that my comments on the construction methods and finish levels, etc. were related to the construction of Afjord boats. I didn't mean to imply that the Oselvar boats are built to workboat standards.

The garboard on the Afjord boats is hewn from thick planks with a hand axe. Some of the twist is put into the plank when it is hewn. Some of the twist is added when the plank is hung. The plank is also hewn so that there is a hollow across the face of the plank. I would be surprised if the shape could be achieved except by cutting it from a thick plank. From what Oyvind says, it sounds like the Oselvar builders use similar methods.

[bainbridgeisland]

Originally posted by Oyvind Snibsoer:
The garboards are traditionally axed into a twisted shape, although today I believe it's more common to just use a bandsaw. So no torturing involved here. The build time for a new Oselvar is ~250 man hours for an experienced builder.How much does an Oselvar weigh?

The guys I used to work with figured on 2 to 4 lbs per hour as an approximate cost for a finished boat including paint or oil. However, the boats they were building did not have the complication of a sawn or adzed garboard plank. They were just simple lapstrake boats built in the traditional method by Shipwrights trained in Europe.

So, would an Oselvar weigh between 500 and 1000 pounds?

[Jon Etheredge]

adzed garboard plank
You know, its a funny thing but I never saw an adze or a drawknife in use by boat builders while I was in Norway. They use a hand axe for darn near everything. Somebody that is good can easily split a pencil line with a hand axe.

[Dave Fleming]

Reference:

Woodenboat,May/June 1979, #28, Wake of the Vikings.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Gee, do you think it means your life is stagnating when you can dig through a pile of junk on your desk and pull out an original copy of WB28 from 1979?.... It's a good issue and worth buying if they have any left. Several articles on Norwegian boatbuilding and a nice bonus article on the Kirby Paint Company.

I did manage to find a couple decent Oselver drawings.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid139/p09a2012796059d9249c33864a9996389/f6ff1958.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid139/p4b220a18735a4dfc232c59df160963fe/f6ff194e.jpg

As far as weight goes, it looks like the keels and stems are most commonly oak and the planks some sort of pine. The only reference to plank thickness that I could find was that the wide planks used on Oselvers were somewhere around 3/4" thick. Framing is also pine, so I doubt the finished boats are particularly heavy - maybe a couple hundred pounds or so for something in the 17' long range. With no heavy transom and that dish-shaped cross-section, there just isn't a tremendous amout structure or surface area.

One WB article mentioned that some builders are now bending garboards using molds and steam, rather than hewing a 3/4" thick plank from a 6" thick timber.

[lagspiller]

I want to add another comment... which unfortunately has become rather longer than I had intended. And it jumps around a bit taking up on thoughts from different posts. Sorry for that, too. Also, I don't pretend to know the building details other than from a bit of reading and some poking around the shops. 2 of the handfull of boatwrights live nearby. I have sailed Oselvers for many years off and on. And there are 10-15 in our clubhouse.

There has been a pretty hot discussion as to whether the first plank at the stems should be hewn or sawed and pressed into shape (don't know the name for this board in English - maybe garboard - translated from Norwegian it is called the neck or throat). Most builders still swear by hewn.

The planks in an Oselver are extremely wide. The hull flares from a deep narrow underwater body with hollowed cutwater sections - and is rather extreme compared even to most Norwegian designs. The combination of wide planks and the amount of twist make it a difficult boat to build.

Most of the rough woodworking is done with an ax. Planks are cut on a bandsaw. Special parts are grown... the builder has to find a root or tree with the correct curve. Has to do with strength. And there are some special planes for small details.

The planking is about 1/2 inch (I haven't measured but that should be pretty close)and ribs are added after the hull is finished - very minimalistic.

This means that the boats are quite light. I think 500 lbs would probably be about max.

No two boats are the same. Length, beam, twist, flare, freeboard all are individually adjusted to the needs and uses of the owner by the boatwright. There are absolutely no written plans and all measurements are coded on a boat-building-stick - notches or marks indicating distances from given measuring points on the hull as it develops. Traditionally, the measurements are trade secrets for each builder.

It is difficult to write, as someone in this discussion did, about 'most builders' or 'most shops'. 10 or 15 years ago, there were only 3 or 4 guys left who could build an Oselver. With the Oselver Workshop up and running, there are more... but still only a handfull.

tom

[Oyvind Snibsoer]

WRT weight, two men can lift and carry an Oselver færing with some effort, so they are quite light for their size.

[BillyBudd]

What a fascinating subject! Wondering, though, if there are pond versions, smaller, lighter craft for the inland pond or small lake where sturdiness may not be as critically needed? Assume that the described craft are for saltwater, rough water. There seems to be a relation to the dories, except a flat bottom instead of a keel. No?

[lagspiller]

Originally posted by BillyBudd:
pond versions, smaller, lighter craft for the inland pond or small lake where sturdiness may not be as critically needed? Assume that the described craft are for saltwater, rough water. There seems to be a relation to the dories, except a flat bottom instead of a keel. No?Depends on what you mean by flat bottom. Certainly not flat like a skiff or a V-bottom run-about. I think of them as anything but flat. In racing configuration a sailing keel is added, sticking about 6' deeper than the normal 12-18 inches.

They were originally used as fishing and work boats. I have never rowed a boat that could match them in speed and glide. They also sail very well - but are difficult to baut. Normal rig today is spree, but they are also raced with marconi rigs.

Each boat is specifically constructed for the use the owner intended. They were used off the coast and deep in the narrow fjords. All the measures and curves would be adjusted to the weather, waters and loads the end-user required. And remember that fishing was basically winter work (farming in summer) - so they can stand an amazing amount of weather. I have raced several times in full gale conditions - wet and scary, but we all survived.

They of course work well on small lakes & ponds as well - and are used for this also. But they were designed as good sea boats that could carry heavy loads despite relatively little initial stability. With a sail rig mounted, it takes a little practice just getting in and out with out incident.

An after-thought edited in regarding 'sturdy & strong':
Boats built in this fashion (Norwegian coastal craft...) are not built strong and stiff. They are strong because they are flexible. If you grab a femboring by the bow and shake it to the right, the stern-post will move to the left. Good and strong boats move with the sea - not punch through it.

tom

[ 09-16-2004, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: lagspiller ]

[BillyBudd]

Wow. I'm out of control. Painted my boat's deck and cuddy roof and ran back to the computer. Thanks Boomkin Joe for bringing this subject (which I cannot pronounce) up and to all who've contributed. By dawn's early light I saw that those great, smiling shipwrights were using live-edged pine, knots and all. Ahhh, loved it: it is what grows here and surrounds me -- stuff just like that in the pictures...and cut just like I like it too.

So, playing this out, First finish the boat in the barn, then the Fiddlehead for wife...then this. Oh. Now. Please. Those who've mentioned magazine articles, if you have the magazine numbers, the dates, and the pages numbers (start to finish numbers), then I might be able to acquire the articles from my local library s photocopies. If you might find the time? And Todd, for reasons that are probably celestial, your photos did not elect to come to this computer, were subsituted by boxes with red Xs.

Now, why finish high school(there's a Paul Simon song...), university, go for that MA or PhD, invest, have a financial 'future', save, go to war, buy junk, etc., etc., when you could enter the world of building such wonderful boats. I ask 'ya.

[lagspiller]

Ok Billy Budd.
Sounds to me like you need to make your pilgrimage soon. I can probably manage to put you up for a few days (even if you are starting to sound like a scary fanatic). Do some sailing and visit some shops. Hug some pines. I'd be happy to show you around.
Call me Ismael. ;)
tom

[boatlover]

This is not in response to any particular posting in the thread, but looking at some of the pictures in the links - especially the "femboring" and "littefemboring" ones,

WOW !

I've found some general lengths, and particular lengths - in "alen" - of several of the femborings. I even got the length and beam of DRAUEN in feet and inches - L=36'4"; B=8'7".
(Of couse I am not sure WHICH length the "L" is, but .... )

DRAUEN's build photos show some interesting details. A vertical scarf in the keel, and a raked scarf in one of the planks. Looks like the the garboard plank is riveted to the keel, and of course the planks are riveted to one another. It appears that there is virtually no rabbet at the stem post, though there are gains in the planks, but all the planks look to "stand proud" of the stempost.

It looks like the frame-to-plank fastenings are treenails, but also looks like the frames are not fastened to the keel. That would probably contribute to the flexibility of the structure.

Is there a scaled drawing of any of these boats on the net ? Anywhere ?

They just look so right, but the sheer curves are hard to proportion.

Regards,

Ed R

The various pics are just pure drool-inducing.

Even

[Todd Bradshaw]

Why not start small by building your own fleet!
Oselver 16.3" long (sorry for the big pic, but that's how it comes up off the site. If somebody can remember how to shrink them, we can. It does show the detail nicely though) I do wonder about those spoon-bladed oars though. Maybe since most Oselvers are built as pleasure boats they are common outfitting.
http://www.acrossthepond.net/Oselx.jpg

Nordslandsbaten 28" long
http://www.acrossthepond.net/nordlandsbaten.jpg
from
http://www.acrossthepond.net/
scroll down to the links for Norwegian boats

[ 09-16-2004, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Todd Bradshaw ]

[Jon Etheredge]

I've found some general lengths, and particular lengths - in "alen" - of several of the femborings. I even got the length and beam of DRAUEN in feet and inches - L=36'4"; B=8'7".
If I remember correctly, an alen is 2 feet. But there is a slight complication in that the measures are probably in Danish inches/feet. The Danish inch is slightly longer than the English/American inch. It seems like the Danish inch is 2.6+ cm/inch as opposed to the American inch which is 2.54 cm/inch. I've got a Danish folding rule around here someplace that has the exact conversion written on it but I'm not going to dig it out right now. Maybe one of the Norwegians knows the conversion.

Mystic has plans for a "Bindals faering" which is similar to (or the same as?) the Nordlands boats.

[lagspiller]

Originally posted by Todd Bradshaw:
I do wonder about those spoon-bladed oars though. Maybe since most Oselvers are built as pleasure boats they are common outfitting.
Yes, that is how they look. Properly stowed, the oars still in their bands fit inside the boat with the curve of the oar blade following the curve of the hull in the stern-most room. The old-timers would give you hell for leaving your oars sticking out "in that lubberly manner"...

The model is very good. Only thing I see is the rudder - should be rounded evenly with the keel.
tom

[BillyBudd]

Lagspiller, Greetings!, I shall begin by saving my pennies! Perahps in a few years? While I was true in expressing joy at your boats, I was also looking at an issue dear to my heart: sustainable building and designing within the constraints of what is locally available. I'm currently building a boat in Massachusetts out of plywood (from Malaysia), epoxy (probably out of the Middle East), xynole fabric (probably from an industrial mill in the Far East). I did this, knowingly, as the option was, I thought, the 'traditional' yacht of American shores which were built of select woods, darned heavy, usually with a deep keel. These wonderful boats of Norway reveal that local folks can/do come up with beautiful boats when their genius for design is unleased and they merely look about -- something that this farmer-boy was unable to see clearly from the get-go.

Todd and Lagspiller et al, is the "Oslever", at 16'-3", a "type" of boat that can also be got out at different lengths? Although 16'- 3" is fine, I wonder about something a bit shorter for smaller waters...and...to be more agreeable with tree sizes.

[Oyvind Snibsoer]

The Oselvar has kabes instead of oarlocks. The oars have an almost triangular or wedge-shaped cross section, where the bottom and forward part of the oar form a 90 degree angle. The oar thus rests very securely in the kabe. The aft facing part of the oar is rounded nicely off to complete the triangle. The oar blade is long and slender as shown in the picture. A ridge is often formed on the forward facing part of the blade to give extra strength.

These oars naturally do not lend themselves to flaring, but it was the opinion of the old timers that flaring was too hard on the wrist. Instead, the slender shape of the blades, and perhaps the ridge on the blade, reduce the wind resistance. Also, when rowing a heavily loaded boat for long distances, a smaller oar blade will be easier on the muscles than a larger, more efficient blade. This allows the rower to maintain a higher "rpm" which is less fatiguing in the long run, sort of like downshifting on a bicycle.

The retaining "rope" on the kabe was preferably made from twisted spruce rots, which allowed for flexing and had a much better longevity than a rope. It also makes it possible to leave the oars out when, e.g., hauling in a fish, without having the oar slip into the sea. A rope would only be used on the kabes as a temporary emergency repair.

The oars are traditionally three times as long as the beam of the boat in the position where they're intended to be used. The fishermen would usually make the oars themselves.

I much prefer these traditional oars and kabes instead of the more common rounded oars and oarlocks myself. E.g., they are not prone to jumping out of the oar lock in a rough sea as rounded oars may do.

[Boomkin Joe]

A few loosely related sites for an accessible approach.

Build a skerry (http://www.get-outside.com/skerry/sk_gallery.htm)

Workshop (http://trincao.www1.50megs.com/norway2.htm)

Wooden boats (http://www.trabatsakuten.nu/)

Viking Times (http://www.algonet.se/%7Egwarner/times.htm)

Free swallowboat model plans (http://www.swallowboats.com/model1.htm)

Sewn boats (http://www.foteviken.se/sewnboat/index.htm)

Viking toys (http://www.angelfire.com/wy/svenskildbiter/Viking/vikhorse.html)

Viking tunic (http://gersey.tripod.com/history/tunic.html)

Viking art (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/wood.htm)

[ 09-17-2004, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Boomkin Joe ]

[Jerry Sousa]

Check out: "The Wooden Boat Series - 10 Wooden Boats You can build". 1995 Wooden Boat Publications ISBN 937822-34-5

Chapter Two. "Building A Norwegian Pram" by Arne Emil Christensen,Jr. Not a double-ender but similar techniques,no?

[boatlover]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jon Etheredge:
[QB][QUOTE
EdR: I've found some general lengths, and particular lengths - in "alen" - of several of the femborings. I even got the length and beam of DRAUEN in feet and inches - L=36'4"; B=8'7".

JE: If I remember correctly, an alen is 2 feet. But there is a slight complication in that the measures are probably in Danish inches/feet. The Danish inch is slightly longer than the English/American inch. It seems like the Danish inch is 2.6+ cm/inch as opposed to the American inch which is 2.54 cm/inch. I've got a Danish folding rule around here someplace that has the exact conversion written on it but I'm not going to dig it out right now. Maybe one of the Norwegians knows the conversion. (Snip)

Thanks JE. An "alen" is two "fot" or "xx inches," (I have heard xx=20/24.)

I found another source that gives DRAUEN's LOA as 11.40 meters, which wowrks out to ~37'5". The original figure I gave above (36'4") would give the Danish inch as 2.615 cm. Does that jive ?

Also, sometime yesterday (according to the date on the file) I found a site or a linked page off some site, about Nordlands boats that is titled

"Nordlandsbaten av Hans Christian Haakenson."

Now I can't find the page again, and there is a femboring sketch there that I really would like to capture.

I've tried Google for "Nordlandsbaten" and "femboring" with no luck.
"Hans C.. H.." also came up empty.

Anybody have any ideas for re-finding a page ?
I've tried following all the links in this thread -I think.

Regards,

Ed R

[boatlover]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Todd Bradshaw:
[QB]Why not start small by building your own fleet!

Todd: Thanks for the links, especially to the 28" femboring model.

Full size drawings at a scale of 1:15. Hmmm.

Build model.

Use 1:10 factor. Build 2/3rds size boat ?

280 inches - 23'4".

Not a bad size.

I'm thinking ! (I'm dreaming ?)

Regards,

Ed R

(w/ or w/o a small lofting ?)

[boatlover]

Call off the detectives !

I located Hans Christian Haakenson agin. But not through the same route as before.

If you are interested, Google on "Saltdal Museum NO" On the third page or so - maybe 5 - you will find the Nordlansbaten bit.

Regards,

Ed R

[Jon Etheredge]

The original figure I gave above (36'4") would give the Danish inch as 2.615 cm. Does that jive?
Yes, sounds about right. I dug out my "Dansk" inch folding rule that I used when I was in Norway. I thought it had the conversion facto written on it but I was mis-remembering. But it is metric on one edge and Danish inch on the other and the 2.615 figure matches with the rule.

If you are looking for more pictures of Norwegian boats, there is an article in WoodenBoat #95 about sailing an Åfjord Lestabåt. This is a boat that I worked on at The Rockport Apprenticeshop in Maine after I returned from Norway. The article was written by Roger Taylor and has some perspective views by Sam Manning and commentary by Jon Godal.

Eventually, I will be able to post some photos of an Åfjord faering that I built while in Norway. But I am having thousands of slides professionally scanned and the turn around time is rather slow. Hopefully I will get them in the next few weeks.

[Mike Field]

.
This seems a good place to re-post a few favourite pictures --

http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au/public/norwegian-02.jpg

http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au/public/norwegian-04.jpg

http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au/public/norwegian-03.jpg

http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au/public/femboring.jpg
.

[boatlover]

I ws going to quote Mike Field, but didn't want to use up the bandwidth by repeating the pictures.

" ...a few favorite pictures .... "

Yep ! And really only a few.

The top picture is FARAGUT, without her "lofting."
(35 fot lengte}

The second picture is DRAUEN.

The third one I don't recall the name, but nice photo.

The last one is SALAROY, of course.

There are lots'a pics at a site with
"hildringstimen-bat-liste" (approx. spelling.)

I get to it by Googling on "Attringen." Google gives me 3 pages of entries. Go to the third page, and go to the end. The entry is next to last. (Just before the "We have shown only the most relevant ... " BS.}

If I click on the top line of the entry, I get a "You are not authorized .... " message, but if I click on the "cached" bit at the bottom of the entry, ..Voila ! Browse to your hearts content.

Quite a list of boats ! Lot of links to further info. Dimensions are in quite a mixture of units: fots, tommes, inches, meters. tonnes, kilograms ....

Almost all of the text is in Norske, but there are enough similarites to German and English that I have begun to make sense of some of it. I bope
someone can tell me (us?) what a couple of terms mean:

1. What kind of wood is "gran" ? "furu" ?
2. What is a "raseil."
3. What is "tjaert hamp" ?
3. What is "fikk" ?

Some of the pictures are bitmaps, so if you are short on disc space, you may want to convert them the jpegs - after you download them.

Regards,

Ed R

[Jon Etheredge]

The Hildringstimen (http://www.hidringstimen.no) web site does have lots of nice photos. This one is an interesting comparison of an Åfjord fembøring sailing with a Nordland fembøring. Munin is the Åfjord boat and is on the left hand side of the photo. The Nordland boat is named Grytir.

<center>
http://www.hildringstimen.no/bilder/munin_og_grytir_100.jpg
</center>

Munin was used for sail training at the school that I attended in Norway so I spent about a week onboard. The boat was built by Einar Borgfjord who was the teacher at the school.

The Norwegian that I picked up during 9 months in Norway is very rusty but...

gran = pine
furu = spruce

råseil (råsegl) = square sail

I can't help with the other terms.

[Todd Bradshaw]

"Tjaert hamp" sounds an awful lot like tarred hemp to me. "Fikk" reminds me of something I say when I blow a tack or pick the wrong windshift, but I'll leave the true translation up to folks who have a better grasp of Norwegian...

[boatlover]

Jon:

Thanks for the wood bits, and the sail type. Do you recall what the name of the sail type that is basically a square sail with an exaggerated extension on one side ? Looks like an asymmetrical bit to improve windward performance.

Todd:

There are two terms used on describing the rigging, or rather three: tjaert hamp: kunst hamp; and then something that I take to mean nylon/dacron. "Tarred" is certainly in the running for the "tjaert" bit, but one of the pages uses it in a way that seems more to imply "natural."

Regards,

Ed R

[Jon Etheredge]

I don't recall the name for the assymetric square sail. But I dug out a book that says that the name is lårsegl.

Before anyone gets too psyched about building one of these boats, you might want to investigate what is required to sail the boats safely in terms of number of crew, crew effort, and vigilance. Especially for boats larger than a færing or seksring.

[ 09-22-2004, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Jon Etheredge ]

[lagspiller]

I can help with some of this...
"Tjæret hamp or hemp" is natural fiber, 3 strand rope that has been treated with a pinetar solution for weather protection. Has a natural reddish-brown color.
If I recall correctly, "hemp" is the original form of Manilla line. Hemp is also a word for marijuana - refering to the plant family from which both products are made.

"Kunst" or "kunstig" in this usage means artificial or synthetic. When you read this on a trad.boat site, it is not generally in a positive association.

And "fikk" is just the conjugation of the verb 'to get'... it means 'got'.

A 'square rigged sail' is hung from a "rå", the 'upper boom'(pronounced "row") ... thus the word "råsegl or råseil" meaning 'the sail on a rå'. I think you will find a similar term in English. Roanoak, perhaps? In fact, very many sailing terms are originally Old Norse.

An asymetric square sail is called a sneisegl. "Snei" means something like 'cantered' or 'off-centered'.

As far as usage... you will generally need 3 guys to control a square rigged boat. 2 can do it quite well, but without real safety margins. But I do know a guy here who sailed alone! One arm for the rudder and all six sheets & braces in the other hand pinched between every finger. He got caught in a blow a couple of years ago and had to swim to shore. We are still looking for benches and floorboards from that boat. Which, by the way, was originally used for hunting whale-shark/nursing shark.
tom

[boatlover]

First apologies to Boomkin Joe for hijacking his thread.

Jon: Cautions noted. Those are still some beautiful vessels.

Lagspiller: I hope the boat you mentioned was not the one in the picture that I couldn't remember the name of. The Hildringstimmen site refers to it as Johns boat/

I see that a couple of the smaller boats are rigged as gaff knockabouts, or as a cutter with topsail, so if one wanted the hull shape, those are alternatives for the rig. One of Bertil Andersens batritningar has a sprit rig with a staysail that might also be an alternative.

The things that really send me are the lines of the hull - the two "stavense" - so the "raseil" possibilty is more like frosting on a cake.

Regards,

Ed R

[BillyBudd]

This has to be the 'finast kind' of thread on the WB Forum. Trying to learn more about the details of faering construction, here in the US, though, has its challenges. I've not yet uncovered anything substantial. Here are some of the dumb questions / black holes that come to mind: a) joinery detailing of garboard to keel, keel-too-keel-to-stem, gardboard to lapstrakes (rivets, clinch tacks?), strakes to stems, inline strake joints are with butt-blocks or scarfed and buttered with tar? b) if pine tar is used as a sealant how does it differ in Norway from the molasses-like pine tar available here? Is it as thick as, say, bedding compound? Are there books, magazine articles, notes hidden inside or behind books that anyone knows of that would show how, traditionally, the faering goes together?

Modifying for local waters & materials, has already moved me to locate two spindly tamaracks (reaching for sunlight in a thicket, they look like good candidates) that, if joined so that the tips form fore and aft upsweeping stems would be an interesting & lightweight keel (probably encapsulatd in epoxy). But I'd not fell them until there's a sense that all the parts would come together. Lordy but there's pine enough here for strakes galore.

I'm toying with the idea of a lightweight boat with faering-like lines, less than 16' LOA, a 2-oar version (not a faering as Lagspiller kindly pointed out to me; the word 'faering' means 4-oars).

Details, book and/or article titles anyone?

[lagspiller]

BillyBudd
You are really looking for a lot of details - more than can be tackled in an email discussion. The only specific I will add now is that the pine-tar solution applied is not the sirupy goo you mention - but probably could be if you thin it with American terpentin (the reddish stuff - not the denatured clear terp) and add a dash of oil/varnish. We commonly use a mix of turp & Benar oil (a Norwegian trade name I know is available in the states somewhere). The other type is a pine-tar oil with a name that is so obvious that I cannot remember it now that I am sitting at the computer... but I will soon. And I have noticed this product, too, is available in the states.

There is hardly any sealant used between planks/keel/stems. Planks have a single woolen thread - I think in a hollowed 'slot' on the Oselver, but this detail differs from design to design - which is steeped in pinetar before laying. All fastening is rivets&roves - preferably in copper. No glue. Planks are all scarfed. Everything fits well enough together that it seals up when it hits the water and swells.

I went to the library yesterday and borrowed Øystein Færøyvik's book "Vestlandsbåtar" This contains much of what you are asking about - in Norwegian. Publisher: Grøndahl and Dreyers Forlag AS, 1987. ISBN number: 8250408578

I was thinking of posting a couple of tables & pictures from the book. But it covers all of Western Norway - so there are impossible numbers of variations on the "Oselver" type to go into here.

Another book/author you should look for is:
Arne Emil Christensen's "Inshore Craft of Norway", in English this time. This is a series that follows the entire coastline - all 25000 km of it - and presents the trad. boats. You will enjoy the books from western Norway and northward.

[ 09-26-2004, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: lagspiller ]

[boatlover]

Billy,

While the address below applies more specifically to a Femboring, there are "tororing" or "two rowing station" Nordlandsbaten that probably follow the techniques of their larger cousins pretty closely. The answers to several of your questions can be seen in the pictures - even if you don't grok Norwegian entirely.

Try:

http://www.eldbjarnbaat.no/femboring.html

Or Google on "Femboring" - should be about the third or fourth item on the first page.

This gives you a series of 46 pictures of the building of a femboring by Gunnar Eldbjarn.

The scarfs in the "kjol" (keel) and between the keel and the "vor/akter" (fore- and stern-) "staven" (posts) are shown - though you nay have to study the pictures a bit. The "kjolbord" is joined to the keel with rivets, and one of the plank scarfs is raked (ie. angled fore-and-aft.)
(It looks like the first "kjolbord" doesn't run all the way out to the two stems, and the second plank does, but that may be a misinterpretation on my part.)

Regards,

Ed R

[lagspiller]

Jon !
I did some checking on the 'lårsegl'...
Apparently this is the common name in more northerly parts of Vestland. I didn't know that - which is cool. And the reason the name was changed from the original "snesegl" was to avoid confusing it with "sneisegl" (which I did)

The 'sneisegl' is slanted-cut as I wrote, but is also the generic name for sails with leading edge fastened to the mast. So both a spree and gaff are 'sneisegl'. 'Snesegl' and 'lårsegl' are regional names for the asymetric square sail.

The asymetric sail functions better to windward than the more symetrical type (at least, that is the theory) because the forward leach can be drawn tight. But the problem is that it must be lowered and pulled around the back side of the mast for every tack. The name "Lårsegl" refers to this... the 'lower-sail'.

Interesting boating & language history.

[BillyBudd]

Lagspiller and Boatlover, et al!

Thanks for your replies. I think the www link is the one given earlier. I'll have to capture and enlarge the photos for close studying of details--thanks for focusing me on this as the principal source, at least as far as what we have in hand.

I think I've ordered from my library both books, but am not sure about "Inland Craft of Norway". Will check it out. Obviously, unless documents have gone missing in this thread, we do not have a well documented boat type for English readers. The construction methods, though--I don't know, might be similar to other boats from other lands that are well described.

What goes around comes around...? Lagspiller, a groove in the strakes filled with pine tar soaked wool? Woah! My Baltic born wife, recent enthusiastic 'over the shoulder' viewer of faering will surely see to it that her flock of sheep be shorn and that some of the wool be spun at home for seam sealers as well as for the usual sweaters and rugs. Must learn about (though thicker is sensible) yarn thickness, number of plies, etc. Assume not washed -- need all that lanolin for moisture proofing. Sustainable boatbuilding without chemicals like 3M 5200 or Sikaflex LOT? What's next? Ohhhh, goodbye silicon bronze screws from the Far East; (re)enter copper rivets (ummm, from Chile?).

[Jon Etheredge]

What type of faering are you interested in? Only the Oselver faering?

Nordland and Åfjord boat construction are very well documented in the series of books titled <u>Nordlandsbåten og Åfjordsbåten</u> by Gunnar Eldjarn and Jon Godal, published by A. Kjellands Forlag A.S.

Volume 3 covers the Åfjord boats. The description of the construction method starts with the tools used by the builder, proceeds to a discussion of the trees that are used, felling of the trees, sawing of the logs, which planks come from which part of the log, setting up the boat, planking, framing, finishing. The example used in the book is an Åfjord faering.

Volume 1 covers the use of the boats and related gear.

Volume 2 covers the Nordland boats. I believe that volume 4 is a lexicon. I haven't seen volume 2 or 4 myself though because they had not been printed yet when I was in Norway.

The books have not been translated to English as far as I know. An additional challenge is that the books are written in Nynorsk which is much less common than Bokmål. Even native Norwegian readers may have diffuculty with some of the technical terms in the books if they aren't boatbuilders. But there are lots of great photos smile.gif

Some of the info in these books will be useful even if you are interested in the boats of different regions. But there are differences. For example, lagspiller says that copper fastenings are used in Oselver while copper fastenings are <u>never</u> used in Åfjord boats. They say that the tensile strength of copper rivets is too low so you have to space them closely. This makes the boat stiff which is a very bad thing. Instead they use galvanized steel rivets and nails exclusively and space them far apart.

[boatlover]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jon Etheredge:

(snip ...)

Volume 2 covers the Nordland boats. I believe that volume 4 is a lexicon.

Jon,

From the description of Volume 4, I think it is a lot more than a lexicon. I see a phrase about "bygging slik or stor" which implies going for weight saving or strength - I think.

The books can be ordered direct from Gunnar Eldbjarn 200 kroner for each or 700 kroner for all four. (700 NOK = 103 USD, per Googles currency calculator.)

1000 pages and 1500 illustrations/photographs ...

Check the descriptions under Boker.

My rough translation may be wrong as to the light or strong construction.

The description of Book I, contains the phrase
"redda om meste hairreisende situashjioner i maele waer" and combined with a cover photo of a Nordlandsboat going airborne off the top of a wave, doesn't need much translation.

Regards,

Ed R

Edited to try to rework the line breaks .. oh, well

[ 09-27-2004, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: boatlover ]

[BillyBudd]

Jon! Iron but not copper for fasteners because of hull flex; what part of the log is best for strake A or B. Love it! Such attention to performance, to material characteristics. Does epoxy and plywood take one's eye off the ball, I ask you!

I have no particular focus but rather a fascination with Norwegian faering or, as I tried to indicate, a smaller craft of similar design evolution. Os's faering are more well know today by novice me, but Alford's would be equally interesting. Don't think, at US$100, though, that I'll be purchasing books that'll be useful only for the pictures. (Why didn't my Momma speak to me in all the earth's tongues?) Selected pages or chapters seem more reasonable, affordable.

I will continue to seek, however, photos or words or descriptive drawings that might guide me in coming up with a similar boat type for where I live. Surely if Austin of Tejas = Norway boat builder then western Massachusetts = Faering construction note taker. Just gotta find the voice or the words or the pictures in order to take the notes! There might yet be a 'sleeper', a 'lurker' faering builder out there willing to spill the beans, yes?

[boatlover]

BillyBudd; et al.

For a drawing of a 6.5 meter long Nordlandsbat
"treroring" - try the following:

Google: "Arctandria treroring

Click on the top entry (at least that's the one I clicked on a few minutes ago.)

This will bring up a page with the heading "Ny treroring"

On the left side click on "Bygginga av baten"

Then on the left side click on "Tegning"

Profile-sail plan, deck view, and 8 sections. Shows scarfs in the keel, and between the keel parts and the posts. Scale on the upper left
is two meters.

Google Arctandria (without the treroring) and explore the rest of the site. There are several pages with sketches of various parts of the boat. A little bit of study of the plans will make many of the terms understandable.

BillyB: BTW: What is your native language ?

Regards,

Ed R

[BillyBudd]

Right on, Boatlover! That website is quite fascinating. I've roamed quickly this morning and will return. Beside the great photos of sailing, catching fish, detail sketches, and the plan you mentioned, sailing and/or sufing waves in the middle of winter, perhaps my favorite photo is the 2 1/2-Roms Afjordsbat by Arne Terje Saether. This is quite possibly the sort of boat that Jon was referring to. She is gaff-rigged and carries a jib.

And yeah, by now I know what a bat is and a seil too...give me more drawings, more time, and.... Not bad for one raised in the English tongue, ehhh?

Curious, I spent time last night scanning the photos that Jon had suggested would hold details within. They did, but of course they also tantalized by withholding much. For example, the keel carries a groove for some of its length for the initial garboard, but how is that first garboard fastened to the keel? Lagged with rivets, or spiked, or, as Lagspiller mentioned, was it somehow "stitched"? Looking at the boat's hull, it seemed to have something of a broad 'wine glass' form with the garboard being the most vertical of the strakes. So, did the garboard 'stay' as put? Or, was it forcibly rotated near mid-hull when the other strakes went on and were spread? And what would such forcing do to the fasteners?

Boy, those tamaracks in the thicket here are looking more and more interesting as keels!

[Jon Etheredge]

2 1/2-Roms Afjordsbat by Arne Terje Saether. This is quite possibly the sort of boat that Jon was referring to. She is gaff-rigged and carries a jib.
I haven't seen an Åfjord boat with anything other than a square sail before. Interesting.

BTW, in case you haven't figured out already, another way to specify the size of a boat is the number of 'roms'. A rom is the space between the thwarts. I believe that the tradtional length of a rom is 32"(?) and corresponds to the size of a standard barrel that would have been used to contain cargo.



the keel carries a groove for some of its length for the initial garboard, but how is that first garboard fastened to the keel? Lagged with rivets, or spiked, or, as Lagspiller mentioned, was it somehow "stitched"?

So, did the garboard 'stay' as put? Or, was it forcibly rotated near mid-hull when the other strakes went on and were spread?
I'm not sure which photo you are talking about so I'm not sure if these comments will be relevant or not...

The keel of an Åfjord boat is a plank on edge and it is Y shaped. The top of the keel has a groove that is the top of the Y. The lower edge of the garboard is beveled to fit against the outside of the top of the Y and rivets are driven through the garboard and keel so the point of the rivet is in the groove. The groove runs out near the ends of the keel so nails are used in those areas instead of rivets.

The combination of the bevel on the garboard plus the shape of the keel are what determine the angle of the garboard. There might be shores down from the ceiling to the garboard but these aren't really forcing the plank into shape too much.

[lagspiller]

Sounds a lot like the process I have seen - except that I do believe there is a good deal of force applied by the shoring. Of course, the longer the boat, the less pressure is necessary.

Oselver and western norway boats also have the "y-shaped" keel. Divided into 3 parts - keel, hals (where keel curves to stem) and stem. The hals is usually grown to shape... boat-trees are not chopped or cut down - the roots are dug free, cut loose some ways down the root and then the tree is pulled over. Keel and hals are generally rough cut and then hewn to shape after that before being riveted together in place.

Once the first board-length is attached to the keel with boat clamps, it is pressed out by shores to the boat beam on the ceiling. One of the main measuring points for the hull shape is at the keel-hals attachment point. Initial hull shape is given by the angle of the "Y". From there, the vertical rise from the keel and the diagonal length to the top of the plank (garboard?) at this point defines much of the finished hull shape. A well shaped 'garboard' is concave at the hals/stem and convex a half meter down the length. Finally, the holes are drilled and the plank is riveted in place.

[boatlover]

Jon E and tom:

You have me furiously scribbling notes ! (Eventually I'll just download the thread. but in the meantime .....)

The pictures of smaller boats show the groove cut/being cut in the keel. After that, the builders seem to keep the keel covered in wood chips, shavings, tools, etc. so that not too much detail is visible. The boat beam is clearly a major part of the building shop. The props look to be about 1 inch stuff, so there would be some flex to account for.

BTW: Most of the pictures show enough wood chips and sawdust around to warm the hearts of all purists - and give the OSHA fire inspectors heart attacks.)

"Hals," eh ? The look like knees to me, but I can cope with that. I scaled the drawing of the treroring, and both of the hals look to be about 5 feet fore an aft, but I didn't scale them for height. So the "halsene lengte" would cover the distance from the fore edge of the bow scarf to the after edge of the aft scarf ? Most of the difference between that lrngth and the LOA is probably in the rake of the stern post. (Is the length over the hals also called the "royset" ? )

I see the "kjolbord" not going all the way to the ends on the femboring and attringen, but those on the tororing and treroring seem to be full length, or at leasst there looks to be a fairly a narrow lowest plank at the posts.

Several of the Afjord boats are described as haveing "krumstaven" in the bow and stern. Most of the Nordland boats have much much more upright. and straighter "staven." What is the term for straight stems ?

Regards,

Ed R

[Jon Etheredge]

These may be differences in dialect but...

Builders of Åfjord boats use the following terminology:

hals = garboard

kjøl = is the keel

lott = the knee that is attached to the keel. The atterlott in the stern and framlott is forward.

stamn = stem

The point where the halsen intersects the lott is called the hals-odden. The 'lengd på halsen' (sp?) is the distance between the forward and after hals-odden. From the builders perspective, this is the single most important measure in the entire boat since virtually <u>every</u> other measure in the boat is proportional to this measure.

I believe that the same or very similar terminolgy is used by Nordlands builders. But I am not positive.

I believe that 'krumstaven' is saying that the stem is what I would call overplumb, i.e. the bow stem is leaning toward the stern, etc.

The opposite direction (bow stem leaning forward) is 'sluten' but I don't know what the term is for plumb.

Also, on an Åfjord boat, the outside of the garboard is hollow (concave) for the entire length. This must be another regional difference between the Åfjord and Oselvar boats.

[BillyBudd]

Back to the keel. At the website http://www.eldjarnbaat.no/femboring.html
the first 5 or 6 photos show the construction process of preparing a rectangular keel of a boat (larger than a faering) to receive the garboards. There are fairly deep grooves each side of keel, up near the keel's top. The keel's top surface seems to often have a level on it, crosswise, so I'm assuming it isn't concave or some shape approximating a "Y". The garboards go into the groove and the rivets either go through to capture both garboards or come out somewhere. (The plan mentioned at another website by "Boatlover" -- this appears to be a 3-oar boat -- apears to have a keel top that might be crowned so that an angled rivet would pop out the far side of the crown.)

A "Y" keel, taken from a small tree would run into problems, or so I've thought, since the center of the Y would be the pith and annular rings would make each of the 3 legs susceptible to breaking off. If this holds, then a Y keel has to be taken from larger stock. Alternatively, if one must use smaller stock, then either the grooving shown in the website mentioned above would work (if one knows how it works) or a "T" keel with slanted bottoms of the T flange might work for attaching garboards that might spring out from the keel as some angle nearly 90deg. And...are faering bottoms rather more like this than flattened-wine-glass shapes?

You can see that I'm fishing around here, trying to figure the keel out.

On building, Jon, it would be incredibly informative to learn about the entire proportion system that defines the various components of the boat. I assume a set of rather concise practices, not an encyclopedia of nuances, yes?

BTW, I've checked on the previously referenced books that would possibly be available in the US library system: I'm on tap if they can be found and forwarded.

[BillyBudd]

Correction. No crown on keel top. Fuzzy printout! Rather, it looks like limber holes in framing members. But rivets, if no lagscrews used, must have been angled to come out at the keel top surface. :confused:

[Jon Etheredge]

The boat at http://www.eldjarnbaat.no/femboring.html is a Nordland boat so I am afraid I can't help with how the keel is constructed other than to tell you that it is not built in the same way as an Åfjord boat keel.

I would be happy to share the set of proportions that are used in the construction of an Åfjord boat. Except that I can't remember them smile.gif I only built 3 boats under this system of construction and that was 10 or more years ago. I am pretty sure that you can find this info in the books by Jon Godal that I have mentioned a couple of times already. You really should find these books if you are serious about this stuff.

Honestly, I pretty much lost interest in the type after I returned to the US. The boats are good looking but they are not well suited for the type of boating that interests me (leisurely sailing or rowing by myself or with a small group of family and friends who may not have much experience). The construction methods are interesting but having used the Norwegian method, I still prefer to build lapstrake boats upside down over molds. This preference is largely because I find that it is very awkward to bevel the planking when the boat is right side up. The exception to this preference is on lapstrake boats that use a dory lap where you can bevel the upper edge of the plank at the bench before you hang it on the boat. Of course, these are only my opinions. YMMV.

[BillyBudd]

Jon, Many thanks for all of your comments. Even though it was a some 10 years ago, you've offered lots of information and direction and I thank you. I'll track down what I can and take it from there.

Personally, having built one lapstrake upside down on a form, I'm determined to avoid that sort of building because the form took as much time as the hull. Hence, in part, my interest in the faering's more straight forward, even though, as you suggest, it is a more difficult mode of construction. At last you're building a hull, not fine tuning class A kindling for the woodstove!

[Jon Etheredge]

BillyBudd -
I was looking through some old stuff I have around and came across a copy of "The Apprentice- The Rockport Apprenticeshop Journal" from Autumn of 1989. It was the issue that was printed after we returned from Norway and built an Afjord Lestabat with Einar Borgfjord at the A'shop in Maine. Jon Godal came over and did a week or so of sail training in the completed boat. Anyway there is approx. 15 pages or so of the issue devoted to the Lestabat. The remainder is about a Friendship sloop that was completed the same year. I doubt you will find a copy of this for sale anywhere but if you would like a copy, I will xerox and send it to you. BTW, there is a drawing by Sam Manning that tells the proportions used for the backbone. Some of the stuff appeared in the article in WoodenBoat #95 and some is unique to this magazine. If you are interested, send me a private email with your mailing address and I'll send the copy your way.

[seanz]

Bump :)
Googling for traditional small boat types and this popped up.Very cool.