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John Smith
03-24-2011, 10:27 AM
This is great. A small 'war' between Glen Beck and Lawrence O'Donnell on the Japan disaster being the end of the world, and some Biblical facts.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/#42222117

CWSmith
03-24-2011, 04:59 PM
Isn't it refreshing when someone can both think and use language to express those thoughts? No wonder the right views that combination as being so very dangerous that they preach the evils of the "educated elite"?

Old Dryfoot
03-24-2011, 05:44 PM
Oh that was good!

Any man who, like Beck, states for the record that he found his religion as a means to get into his wives pants... well, lets just say he is anything but a good christian.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt7F__ae7FQ

John Smith
03-24-2011, 05:59 PM
Isn't it refreshing when someone can both think and use language to express those thoughts? No wonder the right views that combination as being so very dangerous that they preach the evils of the "educated elite"?
It's refreshing to have one reference what the Bible says by saying what it actually does say.

perldog007
03-24-2011, 06:21 PM
If you are not aware of both the entire content of Beck's show that day and the New Testament then I suppose it's "truly breathtaking" as per one of our most respected political commentators. If you watched the whole show, or knew enough about Beck to know that he does not hold himself up as a vision of piety, then it pretty much look like what it is.

A group of sycophants who have been duped into believing rather one sided propaganda.

No wonder some folks hate anything to do with the free market, because in the free market where consumers are free to choose, even a clown like Beck ( and he admits that ) draws a much bigger audience than a personality like Mr. O'Donnell. Size matters in the ratings game and it sounds like a serious case of envy.

Don't know how somebody could study religion for twelve years and think that Christians are hypocrites if not bound to a strict interpretation of the Old Testament or be unaware that the Bible has been translated and edited ad infinitum, but if O'Donnell says it don't bother to question it.

Those who aren't afraid to challenge the great O'Donnell can check Mathew chapter 5 and Hebrews 8 and 12 among other parts of the New Testament. Christians who are fundamentalists are not bound to kill disrespectful children, although my opinion is that a strict interpretation of a work that has been "manhandled" as much as Scripture is not a path to wisdom. To each their own.

O'Donnell lied according to Normans rules of journalism. ( I'm not strictly a thumper per se, but I don't ridicule Bible scholars so when I have a question I can phone a friend :D )

The thread does prove one thing, if you can't refute the message then by all means discredit the messenger. Just Curious, how many people actually watch Beck as opposed to relying on snippets from others telling you what you think you saw?

O'Donnell and Beck may not be rubbing suntan lotion all over each other at a beach near you anytime soon, but they are both valuable voices IF you have a working mind that realizes the value of dissent. Diversity is good, and leads to strength. Like a balanced diet for your brain.

I'm not a good Christian either, the only reason I went to Episcopalian youth group meetings was to hang out with the hot chicks. Guess that makes me evil too. Oh well. Let he who is among you without sin cast the first stone.

delecta
03-24-2011, 06:24 PM
Oh that was good!

Any man who, like Beck, states for the record that he found his religion as a means to get into his wives pants... well, lets just say he is anything but a good christian.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt7F__ae7FQ


Becks best friend is a Mormon, he knew his best friend before he met his wife. Beck stated in that clip that his wife wouldn't sleep with him until they got married. Nothing wrong with that.

They went shopping for a church and no surprise wound up in a Mormon church.

If you want to talk about good Christians, what church is the chosen one attending? What is the problem, couldn't he find a black liberation church in DC so he could continue to listen to and enjoy hate speech every Sunday?

CWSmith
03-24-2011, 06:40 PM
It's refreshing to have one reference what the Bible says by saying what it actually does say.

He did more than that. He argued clearly and with conviction that dedicated, serious Christians must work to find their way through the Bible and, in effect, he admitted that the pursuit of truth is a journey rather than a simple destination. The Bible is a meditation, not a weapon.

perldog007
03-24-2011, 06:46 PM
He did more than that. He argued clearly and with conviction that dedicated, serious Christians must work to find their way through the Bible and, in effect, he admitted that the pursuit of truth is a journey rather than a simple destination. The Bible is a meditation, not a weapon.

What he said was that taking the Bible literally would require Christians to kill disrespectful children instead of giving them a time out. That's a lie. Chapters and books cited above refute that lie no matter how literally the fundamentalist translation is. A "westboro" style denial of the entire New Testament is required for that kind of thought. If he had said Westboro Baptist he might have been closer to the mark, but by using his broad brush ( I can't believe a socialist propagandist would do such a thing, can you?) he lied.

wardd
03-24-2011, 07:06 PM
What he said was that taking the Bible literally would require Christians to kill disrespectful children instead of giving them a time out. That's a lie. Chapters and books cited above refute that lie no matter how literally the fundamentalist translation is. A "westboro" style denial of the entire New Testament is required for that kind of thought. If he had said Westboro Baptist he might have been closer to the mark, but by using his broad brush ( I can't believe a socialist propagandist would do such a thing, can you?) he lied.

then the bible is contradictory?

perldog007
03-24-2011, 07:09 PM
then the bible is contradictory? No.

CWSmith
03-24-2011, 07:11 PM
What he said was that taking the Bible literally would require Christians to kill disrespectful children instead of giving them a time out. That's a lie.

I won't claim to be a Bible scholar and I'll admit there are many parts of the Old Testament and a few of the New that I cannot penetrate, so unless I find a guide I can trust I avoid them. Revelations, the topic of the piece, is one. O'Donnell's comment on Old Testament law calling for the stoning of adulterous wives is right by my memory ("first stone" and all that) and Christ's rejection of that law is proof that he came to change the law and reject some (much) of what had built up on the Old Testament. I think the basic point of O'Donnell's message was correct - Beck uses the Bible to give his social agenda the credibility that logic will not. I don't believe that Christ would approve, but that's just my personal opinion because reading the Gospels is something I think I do understand (minus minor disagreements on cocks crowing and such).

"Socialist propagandist"? - Neither of those words describes either man.

perldog007
03-24-2011, 07:22 PM
I won't claim to be a Bible scholar and I'll admit there are many parts of the Old Testament and a few of the New that I cannot penetrate, so unless I find a guide I can trust I avoid them. Revelations, the topic of the piece, is one. O'Donnell's comment on Old Testament law calling for the stoning of adulterous wives is right by my memory ("first stone" and all that) and Christ's rejection of that law is proof that he came to change the law and reject some (much) of what had built up on the Old Testament. I think the basic point of O'Donnell's message was correct - Beck uses the Bible to give his social agenda the credibility that logic will not. I don't believe that Christ would approve, but that's just my personal opinion because reading the Gospels is something I think I do understand (minus minor disagreements on cocks crowing and such).

"Socialist propagandist"? - Neither of those words describes either man.

Christians are bound by the new testament, and if you check the books and chapters I cited, the whole of Hebrews in fact, you will understand that O'Donnell lied. Beck does state clearly when his opinion is based on scripture, and he also cites sources and insists that his audience read them and draw their own conclusions. Didn't hear O'Donnell mention that. The clip is hardly the whole of what Beck said concerning revelations.

O'Donnell is a self identified socialist and his schpiel on literal interpretation of the BIble requiring Christians to kill children is propaganda. The New Testament is the story of Christ, and the scripture cited above explains how Christians are not bound by the laws of the old testament.

CWSmith
03-24-2011, 07:46 PM
...O'Donnell lied...

I'm not going to engage you further. Clearly, you are a fan of Beck's to the same extent that I am not. I believe O'Donnell's point was well made.

Peace to you. I will leave you now. I have no interest in further argument on this point.

bobbys
03-24-2011, 08:50 PM
We are not under the Law of the Old Testament.

Christianity does not say people must die if they commit adultery or dis obey the 10 Commandments..

We are under Grace..

If we were under the Law and Jesus never came the only people to be cleansed of sin would be a Jewish person able to go to the Temple and sacrifice a Animal with the Priests.

Now imagine a Nation of Jewish people with Observant Orthodox Jews knowing they must renew the Temple and reinstate the Priests.

Now Imagine that The Dome of the rock is in the area of the Temple...

perldog007
03-25-2011, 12:36 AM
I'm not going to engage you further. Clearly, you are a fan of Beck's to the same extent that I am not. I believe O'Donnell's point was well made.

Peace to you. I will leave you now. I have no interest in further argument on this point.

There's no argument, it's a fact and I cited proof. FWIW, I watch O'Donnell, Beck, Maddow, Hannity, Matthews, Brewer, Kelly. I like to hear different takes. Normally I can't do a whole hour of Beck, sometimes I can. Maddow is pretty easy on me. Olbermann was like a Beck situation, hard to get through the whole hour.

O'Donnell flat out stated that Christians who read the Bible literally would be required to kill disrespectful children. LIE as Norman would say. All the more as he claimed to have studied religion for 12 years. That socialist needs to ask for a refund if it wasn't free education.

Don't engage me, you're not equipped. If you want to know the truth on the matter, read Hebrews. It won't hurt or make you vote for Palin. The only ill effect is that you will see what a fantastic lie O'Donnell told. Truly Breathtaking as some would say but not about MSNBC. ;)

CWSmith
03-25-2011, 09:10 AM
...O'Donnell flat out stated that Christians who read the Bible literally would be required to kill disrespectful children. LIE as Norman would say. All the more as he claimed to have studied religion for 12 years. That socialist needs to ask for a refund if it wasn't free education.

Don't engage me, you're not equipped...

OK, like I said I'm no Bible scholar, but I can search the internet. One search, second entry came up with the following:

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

I have a busy day, but I will check these quotes later and anyone reading this can do the same.

I am not anti-Bible. I am very far from it. I live my life by its teachings, but I also recognize that some things are misguided and finding the true teachings takes work.

As for O'Donnell, he seems to have told the truth.

As for you, I'm starting to think I might be equipped after all. Maybe you think just a bit too much of yourself.

perldog007
03-25-2011, 10:59 PM
O'Donnell lied, Christians are not bound by the laws of the Old Testament. Proverbs and Leviticus are in the old Testament and I gave you enough information to find some of the relevant passages in the New Testament. Here's a hint from Hebrews Chapter 7 verse 12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Christians are bound by the words of the Nazarene in the New Testament, Matthew Chapter five also has some relevant passages on old laws and the new gospel of Christ. The book of Hebrews is much shorter than a Harry Potter novel and people who go to Catholic School know that they are actually prohibited as Christians from inflicting the rather harsh brand of justice found in the laws of the Old Testament. If you don't want to do the reading you could just ask a Priest.

Many Christian Bible scholars ( including the one I called who knew the Books, Chapters, and verses of all scripture relating to the Grace of the New Testament ) opine that the laws of the Old Testament are recorded to show humanity why the message of Christ is needed.

O'Donnell knew that too but he was lying to make his case against Beck, which really had nothing to do with the message of that show. One founder's quote on Revelation does not make a consensus on the book, and even Wikipedia explains that there are many different interpretations. Also, predictably all founders were not of the same mind on the Bible or Religion in general.



His aptly named "Rewrite" segment was indeed a most interesting re-write of scripture. False and meant to deceive, worse yet bearing false witness and brother ( comrade?) O'Donnell knows better if he was educated as advertised.

I do respect O'Donnell for standing up for his beliefs and stating that he is a socialist, and that he wants to ban all guns now. Refreshing honesty. As stated I believe all voices need to be heard and today we have the technology. But if you tell a bald faced lie, that's going to heard as well.

wardd
03-26-2011, 08:53 AM
O'Donnell lied, Christians are not bound by the laws of the Old Testament. Proverbs and Leviticus are in the old Testament and I gave you enough information to find some of the relevant passages in the New Testament. Here's a hint from Hebrews Chapter 7 verse 12

Christians are bound by the words of the Nazarene in the New Testament, Matthew Chapter five also has some relevant passages on old laws and the new gospel of Christ. The book of Hebrews is much shorter than a Harry Potter novel and people who go to Catholic School know that they are actually prohibited as Christians from inflicting the rather harsh brand of justice found in the laws of the Old Testament. If you don't want to do the reading you could just ask a Priest.

Many Christian Bible scholars ( including the one I called who knew the Books, Chapters, and verses of all scripture relating to the Grace of the New Testament ) opine that the laws of the Old Testament are recorded to show humanity why the message of Christ is needed.

O'Donnell knew that too but he was lying to make his case against Beck, which really had nothing to do with the message of that show. One founder's quote on Revelation does not make a consensus on the book, and even Wikipedia explains that there are many different interpretations. Also, predictably all founders were not of the same mind on the Bible or Religion in general.



His aptly named "Rewrite" segment was indeed a most interesting re-write of scripture. False and meant to deceive, worse yet bearing false witness and brother ( comrade?) O'Donnell knows better if he was educated as advertised.

I do respect O'Donnell for standing up for his beliefs and stating that he is a socialist, and that he wants to ban all guns now. Refreshing honesty. As stated I believe all voices need to be heard and today we have the technology. But if you tell a bald faced lie, that's going to heard as well.

which version of the bible and do you include the books left out?

the early christians were nothing but a sect of jewdaism and only had the old testament

the new testament and the split from jewdaism came many years after christ when gentiles were being included

John Smith
03-26-2011, 10:56 AM
O'Donnell lied, Christians are not bound by the laws of the Old Testament. Proverbs and Leviticus are in the old Testament and I gave you enough information to find some of the relevant passages in the New Testament. Here's a hint from Hebrews Chapter 7 verse 12

Christians are bound by the words of the Nazarene in the New Testament, Matthew Chapter five also has some relevant passages on old laws and the new gospel of Christ. The book of Hebrews is much shorter than a Harry Potter novel and people who go to Catholic School know that they are actually prohibited as Christians from inflicting the rather harsh brand of justice found in the laws of the Old Testament. If you don't want to do the reading you could just ask a Priest.

Many Christian Bible scholars ( including the one I called who knew the Books, Chapters, and verses of all scripture relating to the Grace of the New Testament ) opine that the laws of the Old Testament are recorded to show humanity why the message of Christ is needed.

O'Donnell knew that too but he was lying to make his case against Beck, which really had nothing to do with the message of that show. One founder's quote on Revelation does not make a consensus on the book, and even Wikipedia explains that there are many different interpretations. Also, predictably all founders were not of the same mind on the Bible or Religion in general.



His aptly named "Rewrite" segment was indeed a most interesting re-write of scripture. False and meant to deceive, worse yet bearing false witness and brother ( comrade?) O'Donnell knows better if he was educated as advertised.

I do respect O'Donnell for standing up for his beliefs and stating that he is a socialist, and that he wants to ban all guns now. Refreshing honesty. As stated I believe all voices need to be heard and today we have the technology. But if you tell a bald faced lie, that's going to heard as well.

I know a lot of Christians. Seems to me they are bound by what they choose to be bound by. I believe that is the point O'Donnell was making. Just like the republicans read the constitution on the floor of the house, omitting those parts they don't like, Christians pick which parts of the Bible they will be bound by, and ignore those they don't like.

wardd
03-26-2011, 10:58 AM
I know a lot of Christians. Seems to me they are bound by what they choose to be bound by. I believe that is the point O'Donnell was making. Just like the republicans read the constitution on the floor of the house, omitting those parts they don't like, Christians pick which parts of the Bible they will be bound by, and ignore those they don't like.

it's buffet religion

perldog007
03-26-2011, 05:35 PM
I know a lot of Christians. Seems to me they are bound by what they choose to be bound by. I believe that is the point O'Donnell was making. Just like the republicans read the constitution on the floor of the house, omitting those parts they don't like, Christians pick which parts of the Bible they will be bound by, and ignore those they don't like.

Maybe I was typing too fast. Christians are by definition followers of the teachings of Jesus, who told them they were not bound by the laws of the Old Testament. O'Donnell was lying to make his point, which really wasn't a point at all simply an attempt to discredit Beck. Judging by the ratings, he's no better at that than he is at re-writing scripture.

O'Donnell could have made the argument you are presenting, and it's a valid one. But he didn't he simply lied. He very clearly said that if Christians literally followed scripture they would kill disrespectful children. That's not true. Now matter how you parse it, the man lied. We could give him the benefit of the doubt, but if we do he was lying about his education.

Don't take my word for it, ask a Priest, Reverend, Pastor, Minister, or Deacon. Or you could just read the scripture that explains it, like I said it won't hurt you or make you vote for Palin. I promise, Jeremiah Wright and Mike Huckabee both have read it, yet still manage to disagree on some things.

perldog007
03-26-2011, 05:41 PM
Ahhh, I love it: it's a 'My Bible trumps YOUR Bible' controversy! :):):)

More like the truth trumps John Smith's lying talking head and alleged Bible "facts" :) But I would hate to see O'Donnell go, sometimes he is my best option in that time slot. Just the fact that he's honest about where he's coming from adds value for me. No hidden agenda, there's something to be said for that kind of bluntness. I know you might disagree, but I get more out of watching him than his predecessor.

Why he feels like he has to lie to discredit Beck is beyond me. if Beck is so ridiculous why bother? In any case, this thread is evidence that on the subject of religion anyway O'Donnell had a good deal of low information people in his audience. Nothing wrong with people not wanting to know anything about the Bible, that's their choice. Just a shame the man had to play on that to tear some one else down instead of building himself up on his own merit.

O'Donnell brings something unique, he should just run with that IMO.

wardd
03-26-2011, 05:43 PM
More like the truth trumps John Smith's lying talking head and alleged Bible "facts" :) But I would hate to see O'Donnell go, sometimes he is my best option in that time slot. Just the fact that he's honest about where he's coming from adds value for me. No hidden agenda, there's something to be said for that kind of bluntness. I know you might disagree, but I get more out of watching him than his predecessor.

Why he feels like he has to lie to discredit Beck is beyond me. if Beck is so ridiculous why bother? In any case, this thread is evidence that on the subject of religion anyway O'Donnell had a good deal of low information people in his audience. Nothing wrong with people not wanting to know anything about the Bible, that's their choice. Just a shame the man had to play on that to tear some one else down instead of building himself up on his own merit.

O'Donnell brings something unique, he should just run with that IMO.

shouldn't lies be exposed to the light?

perldog007
03-26-2011, 05:56 PM
shouldn't lies be exposed to the light?

Yes, and I have exposed the lie that Fundamentalist Christians are not following the scripture when they put their kids in time out instead of executing them. No way O'Donnell could believe that after attending Catholic School for twelve years. There is so much low hanging fruit to pursue in many of the fundamentalists sects, but that ain't one of them.

mariner2k
03-26-2011, 06:46 PM
That was one of the best Beck spankin's yet. The difference between a man educated in the subject and....well..Beck.

Keith Wilson
03-26-2011, 06:54 PM
FWIW, I watch O'Donnell, Beck, Maddow, Hannity, Matthews, Brewer, Kelly. Now there's your problem. Turn that damn thing off and go do something fun, useful, or both. ;)

Keith Wilson
03-26-2011, 06:59 PM
Gaah. With the forum software messed up I can't edit.

Anyway, a small point: for those who take the Christian bible seriously, it might be valuable to consider that it mentions abortion only a couple of times, homosexuality four or five times, but the obligation to take care of the poor literally hundreds of times.

George Jung
03-26-2011, 07:08 PM
I'm a ways from being a 'bible scholar', too, but a couple of ya here are just painful to read! Mariner, Mr. Smith - Beck certainly didn't 'get spanked' on this one (we won't broach the bigger picture), and that you cling to your misbeliefs after being spoonfed the facts suggest that you're 1) just jerking Perldog around 2) don't understand the difference between the Old Testament and the New Covenant 3) have such closed minds that, regardless of what the truth is, you're dead determined to hang onto that bone to the death.

That's unfortunate. As PD has said, there's lots of things to criticize about Beck/fundamentalism; this isn't one of them. Closing your eyes, holding your ears and hollering 'lalalala'
isn't particularly becoming of ol' boys your age.

wardd
03-26-2011, 07:30 PM
it would be interesting to find out what beck believes today

pefjr
03-26-2011, 07:53 PM
O'Donnell took the blabberman's place and has not done well so far. Looks like he is desperate to get some viewers. I could tell him this is not the way, but would he listen? Interesting that without the personal battles between these pundits they would have little to talk about. I should email a suggestion to O'donnell to look up the show that Beck had with Al Sharpton, where Al had Beck crying over a supposed crack about his Mormon religion. It was hilarious, but I havn't been able to find it again.

pefjr
03-26-2011, 07:54 PM
it would be interesting to find out what beck believes todayDevout Mormon

stumpbumper
03-26-2011, 08:03 PM
If Jesus showed up today, I bet he would never say, "Drill baby, drill."

George Jung
03-26-2011, 08:09 PM
IF O'Donnell was lying, then MOST Christians are lying. Most Christians do not limit themselves to the words of Jesus -- they insist that the rest of the book is God's truth as well.

I'm not talking about bible scholars ... I'm talking about the average, man-on-the-street Christian.

If you won't acknowledge the truth of that, there's no point discussing the issue with you.


I don't think this is correct; No one I know would agree with that. But that's just my experience.

Perhaps you have a source that would support your contention? I'd love to see it.

BrianW
03-26-2011, 08:57 PM
So, did we find any "Bible Thumpers and Beck Lovers" here?

Was there any value here, in trying to make a certain group feel bad about their religion?

Was a consensus reached, or were people divided even farther by something as silly as modern parents stoning their children?

George Jung
03-26-2011, 08:58 PM
Look at it this way;

this may be the only exercise some have gotten today!

Call us humanitarians!

wardd
03-26-2011, 08:59 PM
So, did we find any "Bible Thumpers and Beck Lovers" here?

Was there any value here, in trying to make a certain group feel bad about their religion?

Was a consensus reached, or were people divided even farther by something as silly as modern parents stoning their children?

there are certain groups that make the rest of us feel bad about their religion

perldog007
03-26-2011, 09:41 PM
IF O'Donnell was lying, then MOST Christians are lying. Most Christians do not limit themselves to the words of Jesus -- they insist that the rest of the book is God's truth as well.

I'm not talking about bible scholars ... I'm talking about the average, man-on-the-street Christian.

If you won't acknowledge the truth of that, there's no point discussing the issue with you.

Number one, if that can't be proven it's just smoke. I'm not a bible scholar or a member of any Christian sect, church, or fellowship. I'm just an average man on the street that thinks outright lies should be pointed out. If you want to be in that small angry fellowship that buys that kind of "fact" then far be it from me to begrudge you, but don't expect everybody to be silent when lies that promote intolerance are being told.

There is a fairly widespread belief from what I can tell that the laws of the Old Testament did exist, and nearly Universal belief that the New Testament and Gospel of Christ is the new law. Since there aren't Christians without Christ, there you go.

I'm not arguing about the "truth" of scripture, just plainly stating a fact that O'Donnell lied about it. How many of the people giving me static have actually read Hebrews and Mathew or asked a Priest? You don't know, you are ignorant on this and being led by a Charlatan who is nearly insignificant in ratings compared to the host he is attacking. We won't get into what the message of the Beck's show was that day, anybody who wants to know can read the transcript.


If you are content to let somebody else tell you what you say, then be content with that. If you don't like the truth then stick to your agenda.

perldog007
03-26-2011, 09:42 PM
there are certain groups that make the rest of us feel bad about their religion You mean Muslims that commit honor killings in Amerca?

perldog007
03-26-2011, 09:44 PM
If Jesus showed up today, I bet he would never say, "Drill baby, drill."

I'm not sure I would have to phone my friend on that one. Pretty sure you've got a solid hypothesis there.

wardd
03-26-2011, 09:57 PM
You mean Muslims that commit honor killings in Amerca?

or so called christians that would deny others the right to build places of worship

or so called christians the would deny lifesaving medical treatment to children

do you mean those too?

perldog007
03-26-2011, 10:06 PM
or so called christians that would deny others the right to build places of worship

or so called christians the would deny lifesaving medical treatment to children

do you mean those too?


Yes indeed, there are also people like the church of the Unitarian, but I brought up the honor killings because every Muslim I know to a human would not go for that kind of thing, so it's a little unfair to label all of them so. Every Iranian I have met ( there were a rack of them around D.C. circa '99 in the I.T. world ) talked about escaping the theocracy as a major motivation for coming here. Same with all my friends from Sudan.

When you take one thing you object to and apply it to everyone that you think isn't on your frequency there will be casualties, the truth not being the least of those.

George Jung
03-26-2011, 10:42 PM
I can't help but notice - lots of heat, but no substance from the detractors in this thread.

Some folks feel the need to believe these falsehoods, and will cling to them, at all costs. A wise man mentioned that

in a PM to me, and this thread is a prime example.

But even he couldn't tell me 'why' - why cling to lies when the truth is right there in front of you? What is your 'need'?

wardd
03-26-2011, 10:55 PM
I can't help but notice - lots of heat, but no substance from the detractors in this thread.

Some folks feel the need to believe these falsehoods, and will cling to them, at all costs. A wise man mentioned that

in a PM to me, and this thread is a prime example.

But even he couldn't tell me 'why' - why cling to lies when the truth is right there in front of you? What is your 'need'?

they need the narrative that supports their world view

there is even a book written about the syndrome " words that work", a book about which words to use to sell the right wing agenda

BrianW
03-26-2011, 11:04 PM
they need the narrative that supports their world view

More generalizations. This thread is one great big generalization based on the worst of groups, not the best.

If that fits your needs this evening, then have at it, but don't think everyone else believes it.

perldog007
03-27-2011, 07:57 AM
Listen to what O'Donnell said and why. Glenn Beck being afraid of driving viewers to his show? On what planet? The ratings on this planet just don't support that theory.

As O'Donnell pointed out, there is no universal interpretation of revelations across Christianity. Science tells us the world will end at some point, it's inevitable. The sun will burn out and that's game over for this rock in regards to life as we now understand it.

Of course the words of one old dead white guy on revelation don't constitute a consensus on the matter, O'Donnell should have known that other framers/founders held views similar to Beck's so there's another lie.

Then we have the small matter of O'Donnell never getting to the take away message of Beck's show on that day ( anybody here want to take a shot at that one? ) .

Merely attacking the host. He was just trying to get people to watch him by talking about Beck. Beck doesn't have to mention him to get viewers.


The cliff notes version is that Jesus told his followers not to follow the laws of the Old Testament. Among the most widely quoted of these instructions might be from Matthew chapter five verses 43 and 44.
"You have heard it said, love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" A very evolved idea that of course not everyone lives up to.

Yes, the laws of the Old Testament do require that adulterers be put to death. Islamists still do this, more advanced Muslims have come to America in droves to escape societies who practice these things. The Nazarene said "Let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone".

The documentary evidence against what O'Donnell said is clear and irrefutable, yet some here will cling to and defend his lies. Why?

The answer is actually pretty boring and not that deep. MSNBC ( and other networks like Fox ) have some folks hypnotized,

I can name at least two or three instances where I saw something on MSNBC and heard it quoted without reference to the source ( as if an original thought ) within 24 hours on this forum.

Remarkable? No. Medical science may not recognize hypnotism as a discipline, your medical insurance probably won't pay for it but Wall Street will. Smart sales and marketing professionals know the art and study it. To them it's a science.

Consider this very thread, O'Donnell lies and here we have a forum member so impressed with the "facts" he saw that he had to post a video clip here.

Maybe a little reading on hypnotic marketing? Nobody can be immune to it, like the Subaru tag line "It's not a choice, it's how we're built". Maybe the best we can do is to be aware of the techniques and try to consider diverse viewpoints.

That doesn't make the O.P. evil, stupid, or easily led. It just means that O'Donnell managed to create rapport in his mind and transfer a suggestion. That's all hypnosis is. For most of us, our mothers were the first people to hypnotize us. She could give us "the look" and transfer a suggestion.

In "Think and Grow Rich" Napolean Hill gave a rather shocking example of how even a lie could be accepted and acted upon by a receptive mind.

Hill gave and account of how he convinced his deaf son that being born with no ears would turn out to be tremendous advantage over people born with ears. Dr. Hill admitted that he had no idea how this would work out but he kept re-enforcing this thought to his son, and it came true.

His son got a highly placed job with the manufacturer of a hearing aid right out of college. Cutting years off the average time to reach a decent salary according to Hill.

That principle is also the basis of propaganda ( public relations ). MSNBC is not the only place your going to run across that technique.

O'Donnell is not the first person to use this particular falsehood about the Bible to make a point. He won't be the last. It's like a meme type of deal.

I would like to respond to this thread with a challenge to a Beck hater. Most of them here don't even watch the show. I've pointed out many times they are relying on somebody ( with an agenda of course ) to tell them what they think they saw.

The O.P. in particular would realize that there's no "war" if he did. Of course if he knew anything about Beck's religion the O.P. would know better than to call O'Donnell's lies facts.

So here it is John Smith, pick one day and we will both watch Beck, then one day and we will both watch O'Donnell with a discussion thread for each event.

How about it Christian and Beck hater? , care to man up? Up for a discussion? Ain't skeered of no rwdb bible thumper and Beck lover is you? What's that I hear? a chicken? ;)

bobbys
03-27-2011, 12:46 PM
I know a lot of Christians. Seems to me they are bound by what they choose to be bound by. I believe that is the point O'Donnell was making. Just like the republicans read the constitution on the floor of the house, omitting those parts they don't like, Christians pick which parts of the Bible they will be bound by, and ignore those they don't like..

John i know your reading this, Your the one that brought up charges here, Pearldawg gave you a Rebuttal.

An Apology is due from you or mount a Defense of your statements or your credibility is in Serious Q here..

Flying Orca
03-28-2011, 09:32 AM
Now imagine a Nation of Jewish people with Observant Orthodox Jews knowing they must renew the Temple and reinstate the Priests.

Now Imagine that The Dome of the rock is in the area of the Temple...

Better yet, imagine no religion. It's easy if you try. ;)

Paul Pless
03-28-2011, 09:36 AM
is any body else having trouble reconciling beck and bible thumpers???

i just don't get it. . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPfmNxKLDG4&feature=related

perldog007
03-28-2011, 10:52 AM
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by Bible thumpers. To some it means any person of faith who doesn't believe in Sharia law. To some it means any religious person. To some it means Christians. For other folks in the Christian community it means fundamentalists who take certain views. Here in the forum it seems to be used as an insult of some kind.

I don't go to church, but I do read the Bible and other books as well. Some here probably think me a "thumper" because they don't like my opinions. I don't have to reconcile that, anyone who holds that view is in charge of that program.

I'm not really sure I need to reconcile Beck with anything, that's Beck's problem.

bobbys
03-28-2011, 11:40 AM
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by Bible thumpers. To some it means any person of faith who doesn't believe in Sharia law. To some it means any religious person. To some it means Christians. For other folks in the Christian community it means fundamentalists who take certain views. Here in the forum it seems to be used as an insult of some kind.

I don't go to church, but I do read the Bible and other books as well. Some here probably think me a "thumper" because they don't like my opinions. I don't have to reconcile that, anyone who holds that view is in charge of that program.

I'm not really sure I need to reconcile Beck with anything, that's Beck's problem..

By now its painfully apparent the OP did not count on you replying to his thread but rather was pandering to his Posse, He's off in other threads dragging up Bush and easier pickings.

perldog007
03-28-2011, 12:02 PM
.

By now its painfully apparent the OP did not count on you replying to his thread but rather was pandering to his Posse, He's off in other threads dragging up Bush and easier pickings.

that seems to be a pattern, pile on when the victim is down and run for cover otherwise. Isn't this the same crowd that is very forceful in protesting FOX LIES? Guess it's only a problem if Fox does it. When it's MSNBC the ends justify the means.

George Jung
03-28-2011, 12:05 PM
007, you seem to have hit yer stride!

And I'm amazed at your productivity - you still working for a living?