small cruisers: convertible cabin?

[Charles Neuman]

I'd like a small (about 15') cruiser that can also work as a family daysailer. The problem is that the cockpit on small boats with cabins is usually too small for more than about three people. Choosing a larger boat doesn't help: Most designs have larger cabins, but the cockpits are no bigger (sometimes even smaller). An open boat is not a bad choice, but I prefer a small cabin for shelter and for a private space for a head.

So my idea is to make the cabin convertible. Parts of the cabin will be removable to create more open space.

Take for my example the Glen-L 15' Minuet:

http://glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/sailboat-images/dsn-minl.jpg

http://glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/sailboat-images/dsn-minlb.jpg

I could make the cabin with panels that come off from the rear wall and the aft half of the roof. The sides would remain. This will create more open space for daysailing. As you can see in the drawing, people could sit on the center thwart facing forward. Or on the floor in the cabin area. The forward part of the cabin could have a curtain to create privacy for the head. If the weather gets bad, the cabin could be closed up until the weather passes.

Anyone have any input or ideas?

Charles

[ 09-19-2004, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: Charles Neuman ]

[JimD]

Charles, I built and sail a Minuet, there are some picks of her on Glen-L's website. Dandy little boat. I don't see any major reason why something like what you propose wouldn't work provide you could work it up yourself. The mast is stepped on the cabin roof so you'd have to make things good and strong. One thing, tho, with only half a cabin your not going to have much room for the proverbial cedar bucket in there. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to know about building one.

[Charles Neuman]

Is yours the one with blue hull sides and a bright finished deck? It looks like you made your own modifications to the cabin. Looks nice.

I see the picture with you standing next to the mast. You don't seem too worried. It must be a pretty stable boat! How many passengers have you sailed with?

Another thing I could do is have only one side of the cabin come apart as I described. It would open up half of the rear part of the cabin, instead of the whole rear part. Then I could have a delux cedar bucket area!

[JimD]

Its quite stable for a small boat but its still a small boat. I don't know if opening up only one side would be as good an idea. I wouldn't want to be squatting on the leeward side while out in a stiff breeze. Also, I added 200 lbs of internal ballast to steady her up. I found her to be too tender for my liking with only the steel centerboard. If I were to build her again I'd consider doubling the thickness of the CB to one inch steel for better ballast.

[Arthur Averitt]

Is this a hard chine or multi-chine hull?

[JimJ]

Charles

Check out the Hartley TS16 at http://www.boatplans.co.uk/

Jim

[JimD]

Minuet is a single chine, Hartleys are double. I like the Hartleys but I once emailed them with a question about one of their designs. They promptly emailed back asking me for proof that I had purchased plans. I said I hadn't bought plans yet because I needed some questions answered before I did. I never heard back from them. So when their website says 'Here is everything you need to know about Hartley' (or something like that) they apparently mean it. Just my little rant about Hartley.

[Charles Neuman]

Thanks for the Hartley link. Nice boat!

I was always curious about the steel centerboard on the Minuet. JimD, did you consider a plywood centerboard with lead in it? That way, you could adjust how much it weighed if necessary. Just cut a hole and add more lead. Steel is certainly stronger, but with enough epoxy, maybe plywood would be strong enough. 1/2" thick might be too small. Maybe 3/4". I'm just guessing.

Charles

[JimD]

Originally posted by Charles Neuman:
Thanks for the Hartley link. Nice boat!

I was always curious about the steel centerboard on the Minuet. JimD, did you consider a plywood centerboard with lead in it? That way, you could adjust how much it weighed if necessary. Just cut a hole and add more lead. Steel is certainly stronger, but with enough epoxy, maybe plywood would be strong enough. 1/2" thick might be too small. Maybe 3/4". I'm just guessing.

CharlesA small lead insert in a plywood CB to keep the board from floating up works but you can't put 200 lbs in. No amount of epoxy will make it strong enough. I'd imagine there are Minuet owners who don't feel the need for more than the 120 lb 1/2 inch steel board as designed, but I did.

[Meerkat]

The Hartley's are nice boats, but they suffer from using 50's era technology. There's a lot of detailed fussy work to build one from what I have seen of construction photos and construction naratives (plus private emails from a kiwi friend). There are other similar designs/plans, especially from Selway-Fisher that are much easier to build. Check out his "Sand Grouse" design for starters.

[Stiletto]

I've been around several Hartleys and agree with Meerkat.They do sail well though.---Now if someone could convert them to stitch and glue.

[JimD]

Wouldn't surprise me if the Glen-L designs are almost as old as the Hartleys.

[JimJ]

I believe there has been some work in Oz on a "stich and glue" Hartley TS18.

Haven't heard mush on the project lately. After restoring my TS18, a s&g boat I think would be feasable. A version where the ply is laser cut and supplied in a flat pack would be a great idea.

[Charles Neuman]

JimD: Yeah, I see the difference between a simple centerboard weight and a real steel centerboard of significant weight.

While we're on the subject, how hard is it to make the centerboard? If I have the right blade, would a jigsaw cut through 1/2" steel? And what do you do with it? Paint it? Will that keep it from rusting? I suppose I could be patient and find out later on. But actually, before considering buying the plans, I'd like to know what's involved.

Charles

[JimD]

Charles, I had the CB professionally cut at a big metal works place where they have those huge cutting gizmos. Just gave them the full size pattern and said 'Make it like this, please.' It was probably the smallest job they've ever done. It wasn't all that expensive and they do a perfect job. I think it would be miserable to cut and grind it fair yourself. Then had it hot dipped galvanized for rustproofing.

Jim

[imported_Daniel]

Nice boat Jim, well done! I too built a boat from plans purchased at Glen-L. I have since purchased two more sets of plans from them (though have yet to build them). I was impressed with the way they answered my questions during the construction phase, they were very helpful and prompt. I would recommend them to anyone.

[JimJ]

One of out Hartley Association members has just finished a Hartley TS16. He had the C/B cut from stainless steel.

He added the cost of the mild steel centreboard, the cost of galvanising and found out the stainless steel one was not much more, so elected to go for the stainless steel version.

[JimD]

Originally posted by Daniel:
Nice boat Jim, well done! I too built a boat from plans purchased at Glen-L. I have since purchased two more sets of plans from them (though have yet to build them). I was impressed with the way they answered my questions during the construction phase, they were very helpful and prompt. I would recommend them to anyone.Thanks, Daniel. I also liked dealing with them. I knocked together their Utility outboard as well, so far just powering it with a trolling motor. Been meaning to send them a few photos. I'd be looking at Glen-L for a larger sailboat as well but none of their heavier sailboats appeal to me except Amigo which I have the plans for but have decided its very unlikely I'll ever build her. I'm surprised nothing new comes off their drawing board. You'd think with their epoxy/plywood approach to matters they'd come up with some new multichines but they seem to be happy making a living selling old plans and the materials and hardware to go with them.