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dskira
03-10-2011, 12:19 PM
I went on Yachtforum, and after having telling the truth on some ignominious design, this is what I receive:



I haven't seen you put anything forward that is remotely worthy, other than ridicule that reflects on you in a shameful way. It's time you took your miserable commentary elsewhere.

Your membership is being removed. Something I should have done a long time ago.

YF Admin
Carl Camper


Talk about freedom of speech. I think Camper doesn't know it.
A piece of advise: be careful if you go there, you have, and it is mandatory, kiss the feet of everybody, and don't make waves and don't tell what you think about any boat you can see on display.
It is frankly the most insalubrious forum around.

Jay Greer
03-10-2011, 12:55 PM
Interesting to hear of your recient rejection. It may be that Mr. Camper is to new to design or lacking in sensitivety to design to know the basics of what constitues a well proportioned and attractive boat.
What is the address of yachtforum?
Jay

Ian McColgin
03-10-2011, 01:02 PM
There can be great value in a critical approach that has content, but even with content it's quite easy to turn simple disagreements and legitimate criticism into insult. I'd not dis a forum that has a more genteel sense of decorum than ours here, just as I also do not dis the forums that are not much more than self-indulgent flame wars.

I suppose those offended by "Bilge Stench" here can thank dskira for the referral.

Peerie Maa
03-10-2011, 01:09 PM
Which boat?

wizbang 13
03-10-2011, 01:42 PM
I was warned about some silly thing on Cruisers Forum a while ago. No bad language, nothin, just warned about my "attitude". Like renta cops being bossy or something.

SamSam
03-10-2011, 02:14 PM
I was thrown out of the Bolger yahoo group forum because they have no sense of humor.

S/V Laura Ellen
03-10-2011, 02:59 PM
Talk about freedom of speech. I think Camper doesn't know it.
A piece of advise: be careful if you go there, you have, and it is mandatory, kiss the feet of everybody, and don't make waves and don't tell what you think about any boat you can see on display.
It is frankly the most insalubrious forum around.

First of all, it isn't a free speech issue. There is no expectation of free speech on a privately controlled forum. Same as there is no expectation of free speech inside my house, if I don't like what you're saying, I have the right to ask you to leave.

Second, there is a difference between an honest, constructive review of a design and "ridicule". These are subjective terms and it's up you to make the value judgment and determine it you want to play in that sandbox.

Third, I'd be very apprehensive to side with or support your complaints when I have absolutely no information to judge if your posts were indeed "ridicule". If your using the behaviour standards of the bilge, then you may not be in a position that I could support.

Jay Greer
03-10-2011, 02:59 PM
Criticism in debate is always a touchy thing to deal with. The secret is to prove your own point without destroying the ego of your opponent. A meeting of the minds is better than total denunciation and destruction of the opposing party where, in fact, the winner becomes the ultimate loser.
Jay

johnw
03-10-2011, 03:05 PM
And people complain about how strict this forum is! If they chase off the knowledgeable, they'll be left with the know-nothings.

Jay Greer
03-10-2011, 03:07 PM
Out of curiostiy I Googled up "yachtforum". While there are several "Yacht Forums" as well as "Yacht Forum" listed, I found no listing for "yachtforum". I ,for one, would be interested in seeing what they have to say. What is the name of the design in question? And, what was your own comment? Perhaps this would shed a bit of light on the situation.
Jay

johnw
03-10-2011, 03:07 PM
First of all, it isn't a free speech issue. There is no expectation of free speech on a privately controlled forum. Same as there is no expectation of free speech inside my house, if I don't like what you're saying, I have the right to ask you to leave.

Second, there is a difference between an honest, constructive review of a design and "ridicule". These are subjective terms and it's up you to make the value judgment and determine it you want to play in that sandbox.

Third, I'd be very apprehensive to side with or support your complaints when I have absolutely no information to judge if your posts were indeed "ridicule". If your using the behaviour standards of the bilge, then you may not be in a position that I could support.
Take a look at his other posts on this forum. He doesn't strike me as a sore head.

S/V Laura Ellen
03-10-2011, 03:17 PM
Take a look at his other posts on this forum. He doesn't strike me as a sore head.

Didn't say he was. I said I didn't have enough information to support or not support his position. I'd be very interested to see the post that got him ousted, but unless that happens I'm neutral on the issue.

dskira
03-10-2011, 04:31 PM
It was a lousy sketch for a 300' sailing boat by a complete ignorant.
I ask him if he was not to tired after this hard work.

BomBaaAAAA:mad: Carl Palmer went berserk and expelled me |:)

I can't put the drawing because the genius signed it, so it will be breach of copyright.
I have no trust on Carl Palmer, is the kind of guy who zip martini in yacht club with his lawyer buddies.

But what is important is your opinions of all of us. Good points
Thank you

peter radclyffe
03-10-2011, 04:48 PM
ask Daniel if you want the truth, good for you Daniel

johnw
03-10-2011, 05:13 PM
Could be this forum, though I didn't see anything in their guidelines about zero tolerance for sarcasm.

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/

rbgarr
03-10-2011, 06:02 PM
DSkira,

From the administrator's comment when he banned you it seems you'd not been all that popular via your previous posts on that site. Had you been given warnings about that? Just asking.

dskira
03-10-2011, 07:41 PM
Nope. No warning.
Yes you are right, I was not popular, but I never been rude or out of line. Just telling what I think about some wedding cake built to be tied on marinas for ever, or superyacht which should never have been born on the first place. But that was only perhaps 10% of my posts, the rest I was very enthusiastic.
The thing is: I don't care about who is who, and how much money people have, and I don't respect people by the size of their boat.
I think Carl Palmer seams to be very impressed by the wealth who goes with some kind of yachting, and probably my tune was not of his licking.

Bob Triggs
03-10-2011, 07:54 PM
Just look at the advertising there and understand that they and their advetrtising fees are what pay the bills. Of course they arent a serious editorial endeavour. It's all about marketing. It's all about the money. You criticize, you die!

dskira
03-10-2011, 09:14 PM
This is the link with the post which make me ousted.

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/yacht-renderings-plans/15370-300-ft-super-sailing-yacht.html

Scroll down and it is the first post after the sketch.

Mad Scientist
03-10-2011, 09:23 PM
A design newbie starting with a 300' megayacht? A replacement for Raw Faith, perhaps?

Tom

Peter Malcolm Jardine
03-10-2011, 09:23 PM
Yep, that post wasn't very nice, and it cost you your membership on that forum. There you go.

Woxbox
03-10-2011, 09:32 PM
I thought it was pretty funny. Also the following comment that a few curved lines is all it really needs.

wardd
03-10-2011, 09:33 PM
i think it was good for a 9 year old

Peter Malcolm Jardine
03-10-2011, 09:33 PM
Let's face it, woodenboat owners have thicker skins :D

Sailor
03-10-2011, 09:51 PM
I'll say it here though.... I'd never buy something that looked like that. Not even with Buffet's bank account and Gates signing the checks.

bobaero
03-10-2011, 10:37 PM
Mr.Dskira,
Maybe just a little too sarcastic for the good old boys from the YC ;but you are sooo right about the drawing.If you have to kiss ass to be on a forum ,who needs it.I'll take the fellowship of wooden boat builders any day.
I have built several small boats but I learn something here almost every visit.

willmarsh3
03-10-2011, 11:20 PM
I definitely prefer hearing real opinions and respect the giver of said opinions way more than so called yes people who are only trying to gain popularity points. The moderator's apparent fit of piqué is their loss, IMHO.

wizbang 13
03-10-2011, 11:33 PM
Looks like you beat up an 8 year old, shame on you wink wink

BETTY-B
03-10-2011, 11:41 PM
I thought that was pretty funny. I should know too, my own sarcasm goes down in flames all too often around here!:d

David G
03-11-2011, 12:46 AM
Dan,

You. Sarcastic??? I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.

<keep up the good work>

BarnacleGrim
03-11-2011, 01:05 AM
Is Carl Camper and Carl Palmer the same person? It's a pretty immature way to run a forum, that's for sure.

dskira, I couldn't say that you wouldn't still be banned, and the design is pretty meaningless, but you could have been slightly more helpful in saying exactly what was wrong with it.

Old Dryfoot
03-11-2011, 01:34 AM
It's a pretty immature way to run a forum, that's for sure.

I couldn't agree more, that was about as benign a comment as I've ever seen, it even had the requisite smiley. For the admin to respond like that in open forum was in very poor taste and a massive over reaction IMO.

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
03-11-2011, 03:00 AM
Seems you violated the rules of the upper crust: Never criticize another yacht design, just like never, NEVER say the stock market, or ANY stock, is going to decline.

The549
03-11-2011, 05:21 AM
you'll have to continue your search for Bob Dylan on other forums. I thought your posts were pretty entertaining, but then again one time I was in a punk rock band. :)

Larks
03-11-2011, 05:25 AM
Good on you Daniel, the comment was fair enough and I thank you for the heads up to stay clear of that forum.

AndyJune
03-11-2011, 07:10 AM
Poor Dskira! I have read you post on YachtForums and I think a ban is too strick for you . I used to be offended a lot on the other forums, and I have never seen the offender get any ban or warning.

David Tabor (sailordave)
03-11-2011, 11:40 AM
Geez, you got booted for THAT? The sketch looks like something anyone could have done on the back of a napkin. Sure didn't imply a lot of work on the OP's part.
I wouldn't worry about getting kick out; if they were offended by your barely sarcastic post they probably aren't a lot of fun to hang with in either the real or cyber worlds.

Old Dryfoot
03-11-2011, 01:03 PM
Hey look... I'm a designer too! :D Now someone offer up a critique or comment so Scot can come charging in a ban them.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_16uaIQJ91m4/TXpjwWYMpqI/AAAAAAAAAOo/caJOEbXxmNo/s800/dory%20scetch.jpg

Peerie Maa
03-11-2011, 01:19 PM
Hey look... I'm a designer too! :D Now someone offer up a critique or comment so Scot can come charging in a ban them.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_16uaIQJ91m4/TXpjwWYMpqI/AAAAAAAAAOo/caJOEbXxmNo/s800/dory%20scetch.jpg

Hey, you used colour, that's unfair.

johnw
03-11-2011, 02:28 PM
I wonder if it was Carl's 8-year-old that posted the picture?

Old Dryfoot
03-11-2011, 02:45 PM
Hey, you used colour, that's unfair.

Hehe... makes her pretty don't it? :D

S/V Laura Ellen
03-11-2011, 03:46 PM
What most of you are not seeing is that the Yachtforum is a business venture. It is not considered acceptable behaviour to enter someone's place of business and ridicule the other clients or their guests.

If you do you should be expected to be escorted to the door and asked not to return.

Lets try an example for you.

If I walk into a clothing store and point at the child of another customer and loudly say "That has got to be the stupidest kid I've ever seen", what would you expect the outcome to be? How about if I've done the same thing before?

How is the above example different that the Yachtforum issue?

Canoeyawl
03-11-2011, 04:37 PM
Seems more like someone's data mine than a forum... They wouldn't know a real NA if he posted there. ;)

orbb
03-11-2011, 04:39 PM
That was great for a laugh. Thanks for the link to the drawing.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
03-11-2011, 06:45 PM
Maybe we should send a message from the WBF to Yachtforums...


http://www.game-of-thrones.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/french-taunting-300x200.jpg

Old Dryfoot
03-11-2011, 07:29 PM
Maybe we should send a message from the WBF to Yachtforums...


http://www.game-of-thrones.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/french-taunting-300x200.jpg

Too funny to not have the clip handy...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA

dskira
03-11-2011, 07:39 PM
What most of you are not seeing is that the Yachtforum is a business venture. It is not considered acceptable behaviour to enter someone's place of business and ridicule the other clients or their guests.

If you do you should be expected to be escorted to the door and asked not to return.

Lets try an example for you.

If I walk into a clothing store and point at the child of another customer and loudly say "That has got to be the stupidest kid I've ever seen", what would you expect the outcome to be? How about if I've done the same thing before?

How is the above example different that the Yachtforum issue?

You are absolutely right about the business venture.

As for your clothing store example, I really don't see any relevancy.
That will be rude, and I don't design kids.
God, the sperm swimmers and other female eggs system (its a complicate matter, I know only my part, sorry |:)) are in the design process of the creature, so I can't and I will not give any opinion.
But if the clothing are amateurish and inappropriate, I have the right to say it.

I didn't insult the designer, I make a remark about his lake of result, and I had the right to do so.
But it was his right to answer me and to challenge my finding. Inset of that, the owner of the forum, who had nothing to do with the exchange, fire me.

S/V Laura Ellen
03-11-2011, 07:53 PM
You are absolutely right about the business venture.
For the clothing example, that will be rude, since I don't design kids. God, the sperm swimmers and other female eggs system (its a complicate matter, I know only my part, sorry |:)) are in the design process of the creature.
But if the clothing are amateurish and inappropriate, you have the right to say it.
I didn't insult the designer, I make a remark about his lake of result, and I had the right to do so.
But it was his right to answer me and to challenge my finding. Inset of that, the owner of the forum, who had nothing to do with the exchange, fire me.

Okay, so you're a boat designer and you walk into a marine chandlery and brokerage. You start making remarks about the guests of other customers. You are asked by the owner to leave and never return. Seems appropriate.
No, lets look at the damage. You've been asked to leave a place of business that you have no value for. So what's your beef?

dskira
03-11-2011, 08:20 PM
Maybe we should send a message from the WBF to Yachtforums...


http://www.game-of-thrones.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/french-taunting-300x200.jpg

The video is realy funny |:)

JamesCaird
03-13-2011, 02:47 PM
Ha, ha, ha, you guys............This is some of the funniest stuff I have seen in WBF. Will have to look at Yachtforum some more if that shows the level of gags. So far I wouldn't worry too much about being left behind while banned/Cheers/JC

Hwyl
03-13-2011, 03:05 PM
I'm a member of Yacht Forum (user name Gareth), it's a pretty tightly controlled forum for crew and participants in the big boat business. That should be clear. I'd guess from his name that DockBoy 93 is 17 years old or less. You were abrasive Daniel, I'm sure you would never be rude like that to a beginner face to face. A ban is excessive but it's Carl's forum and he can run it how he likes

boat fan
03-13-2011, 05:17 PM
Hey look... I'm a designer too! :D Now someone offer up a critique or comment so Scot can come charging in a ban them.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_16uaIQJ91m4/TXpjwWYMpqI/AAAAAAAAAOo/caJOEbXxmNo/s800/dory%20scetch.jpg

Soooo....Old Dryfoot.......You must be tired too then .......( testing ....testing ....:d )

Is it a Dory Superyacht ?

boat fan
03-13-2011, 05:25 PM
I'm a member of Yacht Forum (user name Gareth), it's a pretty tightly controlled forum for crew and participants in the big boat business. That should be clear. I'd guess from his name that DockBoy 93 is 17 years old or less.....


I would have thought that to keep any level of credibility , they would have restricted the infamous sketch instead. It hardly inspires confidence , let alone give the impression of competence for " the big boat business.
Why would you want napkin doodles scribbled by a 17 year old published on a forum that seeks to be taken seriously ? I`m puzzled by that story.

The ban smells of personal vendetta.

Daniel : I can only imagine what Richard would have said about that scribble ....at " that other place " :D

Old Dryfoot
03-13-2011, 07:07 PM
Soooo....Old Dryfoot.......You must be tired too then .......( testing ....testing ....:d )

Is it a Dory Superyacht ?

Awww dude... don't disparage me... SCOT help me! ;)

A Super Dory to be accurate, 27' of pure fishing luxury, cruising at a blistering 6 knots! Make way! Make way!

stewart711
03-14-2011, 08:27 PM
Dskira

I saw the sketch, I read your post, Zingo! Brilliant! However it doesn't surprise me that those Thurston Howels won't tolerate such from a Maineiac. You were pretty hard on the designer. Sometimes in some places you just say the Emperor has clothes on.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
03-14-2011, 08:32 PM
One thing about Yachtforums that strikes me immediately is that this is big money, and there are big money interests. This place is middle class, and more meat and potatoes. I like that.

John B
03-14-2011, 09:01 PM
Meat potatoes and peas I'll have ye know. and Gravy.

I laughed meself sick when I saw that drawing.

Dave Hadfield
03-15-2011, 12:04 AM
Looks to me like you were kicked out for bad grammar. You wrote "to tired" when you meant "too tired".

Obviously an unforgiveable sin.

Dave

johnw
03-15-2011, 12:07 AM
Looks to me like you were kicked out for bad grammar. You wrote "to tired" when you meant "too tired".

Obviously an unforgiveable sin.

Dave

Tank you, Prof. Higgins. I knew there was a class issue somewhere.

dskira
03-16-2011, 06:39 AM
I would have thought that to keep any level of credibility , they would have restricted the infamous sketch instead. It hardly inspires confidence , let alone give the impression of competence for " the big boat business.
Why would you want napkin doodles scribbled by a 17 year old published on a forum that seeks to be taken seriously ? I`m puzzled by that story.

The ban smells of personal vendetta.

Daniel : I can only imagine what Richard would have said about that scribble ....at " that other place " :D

I miss Richard, what a shame to have done that. I love the guy, so interesting and professional.
It was a personal vendetta, Carl didn't like when I said my opinion on some floating nightmare. It was only an opinion.
But the thing was built at a cost of 50 millions and change. That impresseed Carl, not the boat. Don't touch it :pmad:
As for the 17 years old napkin rendering, as myself I had intern in my active life,(slowing down now) I was far more outspoken than that when they presented sloppy drawings. Believe me I was nice in the forum.

Canoeyawl
03-16-2011, 10:42 AM
It seems like the rule over there is - "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullsh!t".

Chris Freeman
04-03-2011, 05:18 PM
Sounds like a silly reason to get banned.

Typhoon
04-04-2011, 08:25 PM
Was that a design for a boat? To me it looked like several parallel lines arranged into some sort of attempt at a parallelogram.
I didn't think the comment was at all abrasive.