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TomF
03-07-2011, 02:22 PM
Tom M commented in Ed's Requiem thread that when you ponder and meander in your brain over some deaths, sometimes the outcome is not so much comfort as acceptance or reconciliation. Awareness that some events are the product of the other person's choices ... which had little to do with you.

Our kids dragged out the photo albums last night. My mother had pulled together one of the albums for me, mostly of me, from my family-of-origin's photo collection, when I was about 22. My wife's added more pics of me ... either alone or with my kids ... in our decades together since. So it now has pictures of my Dad as a young man dandling me as a baby ... pictures of me as a kid the age of my now youngest, of me as young man dandling my kids ... pictures of my Dad at about 50 sailing and fishing with me as a young man ...

Yep, you get it. I looked at some of those photos for what felt like the first time; the alchemy of time has made me into my father. But not only that, I could look and see how he likely felt as a young man ... how my son now feels as a young man ...

It's like how they used to have overlapping transparencies on maps. Who I was as a kid is still there, as is who I was as a University student, a young father, and now a middle-aged man. And the more transparencies I get overlaid on the pictures, the more I can understand the other people who've shared my life ... unfortunately in some cases, only after the chance for it to help them has passed.

I find myself looking forward to becoming an old man, knowing that all those layers will simply keep increasing, growing in richness. And I'm trying to sort out how to possibly express this in ways my own kids might understand ... to give them a head-start on my late-learning. But I dunno if that would be possible. I don't think that I, as a young man, could have really understood if Dad had tried to express it. Arrogant bastard that I was, I'd have thought I did ... but in fact?

Some of you guys have been there already; any of this have resonance for you, occupying your brains? Any things that you'd wished your own parents had been able to clue you into when you were +/- 50? That you now know, but wished you'd known then?

Ed Harrow
03-07-2011, 02:32 PM
I'll try to come up with something - coming up with anything right now ain't likely.

TomF
03-07-2011, 02:48 PM
I misspoke a bit I guess - it's not so much that I've become my father, as I'm seeing the roles we take on at different stages of life in higher relief.

Not unlike how at roughly the same age, people have a first girlfriend/boyfriend, or get a driver's licence. Buy a house, become a parent, get a fair degree of responsibility in their career. Etc. Now that I've done many of those things, I have a bit more understanding of how my parents likely felt when they did them. Of how my kids likely feel as they're doing or approaching them. I feel like in some instances, I'm now able to see in 3 dimensions, where before it was only in 2. I'm finding it really neat, but I wish I'd had the brain-power to do it before.

What we do, how our choices and opportunities unfold, is of course different; as you say, we make our own mark.

paladin
03-07-2011, 02:52 PM
My mom was one that always wanted me to just stay in school and get a job anywhere....a store clerk, it didn't matter. Dad left me to go my own way with a little nudge here and there to do whatever I felt like doing, just try to make good choices. Granddad and my step gramma were the ones to influence me the most. I felt a great loss when both of them passed, about 15 years apart. I felt a loss when mom passed, but not nearly as much when dad passed on, and far less than when Granddad and Hazel passed away. I would say I am more like my grandfather than either of my parents.

Arizona Bay
03-07-2011, 07:17 PM
"I'm not sure any of that can be 'translated'.... I think it can only be experienced."

That's the way of it...

We can only see the world from where we stand at this moment. We can describe it until we run out of words, but the listener will still only see it through the lens their own experience.

If there is anything we could teach that would help those who follow, I would say that it would be developing the ability to be still, and watch without judgment. Neither judging themselves, others or whatever they may be experiencing. Learning to create a space so to see things as they are without the drama, can help a lot in making choices!

Oh Yes... my name is Greg, I've been here off and on over the last 12 years or so...
Cheers!

purri
03-07-2011, 07:27 PM
Some Olders never get it. They lecture, direct, hector, whinge, whine, bitch and nag but never offer advice or suggest alternatives when requested. Jest saying as a 64 yo.

Ed Harrow
03-07-2011, 10:07 PM
There is a theory that we live in a 'multiverse', a multitude of universes slightly displaced from one another, and for reasons I can't explain, mutually invisible. The 'you' at 20, and your parent at '50' don't share the same universe, and don't 'see' the same things.

Besides the fact that my father was anything but a 'teacher', I can only recollect one comment he made to me when I was in highschool. He said I should be a history teacher. I tried to provide my mother with some financial guidance (I suggested she talk to Sheryl's Dad and a particular attorney - she clearly didn't listen to Frank, and never spoke with the attorney, despite me making the appointment). She chose to listen to someone else, and now we live with the consequences. Curiously, with Amanda, the most advice she sought from me was when she bought a bike last year. I kept telling her my knowledge was at least 20 years out of date. ;)

Dutch
03-07-2011, 10:15 PM
no offense meant but is there a new batch of weed making the rounds in nb perhaps?

McMike
03-07-2011, 10:57 PM
I had four parents, my mother and father split when I was two and each remarried. None of my four parents were any good. Whenever I find myself reminding me of them I try to do it different. You see, my parents were too selfish to help me become a good man, any headway I've made to that end has been my own doing. I'm reasonably sure I'm more a positive influence than negative to my two stepsons but I can't help but feel like a fish out of water everyday with them, hell, with anyone. The only sympathy I have for my parents is that they most likely had about as much consideration paid to them while they were children as I had when I was a child. I feel the best decision I made was to get a vasectomy when I was 25, I'll never have to worry about passing on the feeling of rejection and sense that I was a burden. I figure as long as I do no harm with my step kids, any good I do will be a bonus in their lives, at least that's something.

I can't help but feel jealous of some of you and your relationships to your parents. As I hear of the heart wrenching accounts of how much pain a parents death has caused some of you, I can't help but wish I could feel that way because it would have ment that I was well loved as a child.

L.W. Baxter
03-08-2011, 12:45 AM
Geez, Mike.
I'm confident that you are an excellent father to your stepsons.
And you've still got time to find your place in the water.

Glen Longino
03-08-2011, 01:02 AM
I had four parents, my mother and father split when I was two and each remarried. None of my four parents were any good. Whenever I find myself reminding me of them I try to do it different. You see, my parents were too selfish to help me become a good man, any headway I've made to that end has been my own doing. I'm reasonably sure I'm more a positive influence than negative to my two stepsons but I can't help but feel like a fish out of water everyday with them, hell, with anyone. The only sympathy I have for my parents is that they most likely had about as much consideration paid to them while they were children as I had when I was a child. I feel the best decision I made was to get a vasectomy when I was 25, I'll never have to worry about passing on the feeling of rejection and sense that I was a burden. I figure as long as I do no harm with my step kids, any good I do will be a bonus in their lives, at least that's something.

I can't help but feel jealous of some of you and your relationships to your parents. As I hear of the heart wrenching accounts of how much pain a parents death has caused some of you, I can't help but wish I could feel that way because it would have ment that I was well loved as a child.

That's heart-wrenching, Mike!
Best wishes to you.

ChaseKenyon
03-08-2011, 01:47 AM
Tom M commented in Ed's Requiem thread that when you ponder and meander in your brain over some deaths, sometimes the outcome is not so much comfort as acceptance or reconciliation. Awareness that some events are the product of the other person's choices ... which had little to do with you.

Our kids dragged out the photo albums last night. My mother had pulled together one of the albums for me, mostly of me, from my family-of-origin's photo collection, when I was about 22. My wife's added more pics of me ... either alone or with my kids ... in our decades together since. So it now has pictures of my Dad as a young man dandling me as a baby ... pictures of me as a kid the age of my now youngest, of me as young man dandling my kids ... pictures of my Dad at about 50 sailing and fishing with me as a young man ...

Yep, you get it. I looked at some of those photos for what felt like the first time; the alchemy of time has made me into my father. But not only that, I could look and see how he likely felt as a young man ... how my son now feels as a young man ...

It's like how they used to have overlapping transparencies on maps. Who I was as a kid is still there, as is who I was as a University student, a young father, and now a middle-aged man. And the more transparencies I get overlaid on the pictures, the more I can understand the other people who've shared my life ... unfortunately in some cases, only after the chance for it to help them has passed.

I find myself looking forward to becoming an old man, knowing that all those layers will simply keep increasing, growing in richness. And I'm trying to sort out how to possibly express this in ways my own kids might understand ... to give them a head-start on my late-learning. But I dunno if that would be possible. I don't think that I, as a young man, could have really understood if Dad had tried to express it. Arrogant bastard that I was, I'd have thought I did ... but in fact?

Some of you guys have been there already; any of this have resonance for you, occupying your brains? Any things that you'd wished your own parents had been able to clue you into when you were +/- 50? That you now know, but wished you'd known then?


Yah right, middle means somewhere around the median or middle value.

when talking about age of ourselves in the bigger picture we often call what is the "Mode" the median. We have a fair number of us who call the middle the "mean" which is actually the average. The average age has nothing to do with the "middle".


You, Me, and the cellos are not middle, we are Ancient and have earned it by surviving and should never be ashamed to flaunt it.

By just surviving to this point we have had the opportunity to absorb much knowledge and wisdom. Whether we have actually done so or have wasted that opportunity is easily measured by the level of respect we have earned from grandchildren or the equivalent like my students from years of sailing,ski and snowboard teaching.


ADMIT IT YOU ARE ANCIENT AND SO AM I AND PROUD OF IT.

You ever play the Vivaldi set for two Celli? Could we do it with recording software from each of us at home and combine it with an accompaniment track?

My dad and his Quebecquois friends up above,say are you boys still playing that "Longhair Music"?

I just smile and tell them to take some time and really really listen to Apocalyptica.:d:d;);)


Remember:

"definition:

Age........An arbitrary chronological delineation"