PDA

View Full Version : Gas gangsters



ishmael
03-04-2011, 07:03 PM
Libby's oil production has been cut in half due the recent turmoil. Libya only produces a snort, yet prices at our pumps keep rising, dramatically.

Someone is manipulating the price of oil.

willmarsh3
03-04-2011, 07:39 PM
I like to think that supply and demand aren't very elastic for oil. Nonetheless I cut back my driving and drive my car more instead of my truck. It's funny how gas prices go up in a hurry and take their sweet time coming back down after the crisis has passed.

Waddie
03-05-2011, 02:38 AM
If you want to track the price of oil follow the London exchange. That's where the speculators gather. Look at volume as well as trends. They have been busy. I also think oil goes up faster than it comes down. The gas at our pumps predates most of this Libyan crisis (it was refined before the price got higher), and most Libyan oil goes to Europe. It can be replaced by other nations and/or stockpiles in the short term, so outside of speculation there is no concrete reason gas prices here have to go up---yet.

regards,
Waddie

mike hanyi
03-05-2011, 02:45 AM
come on people its easy to learn the scam!

any political turmoil in an oil producing country = prices rise
bad economy and trying to consume less fuel? = prices rise so OPEC gets the same monthly income
its a game you cant win, OPEC rules the world, and any chance to raise the price they the stock market takes it

use lots of fuel like it is like water = more production and lower prices
summer is normally lower price as heating oil is in demand more in winter.

skuthorp
03-05-2011, 02:50 AM
Speculating on oil is not a crime, but if it precipitates a recession for no good reason, maybe it should be an economic crime.
It may not even be OPEC, the speculators have got us over the (oil) barrel. Maybe we should learn their names and addresses and publish them widely.

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 02:58 AM
Speculating on oil is not a crime, but if it precipitates a recession for no good reason, maybe it should be an economic crime.
It may not even be OPEC, the speculators have got us over the (oil) barrel. Maybe we should learn their names and addresses and publish them widely.

I'll go for that...shine a light on it

Waddie
03-05-2011, 03:48 AM
Speculating on oil is not a crime, but if it precipitates a recession for no good reason, maybe it should be an economic crime.
It may not even be OPEC, the speculators have got us over the (oil) barrel. Maybe we should learn their names and addresses and publish them widely.

Speculating of this sort is a crime in the US, that's why they like the London exchange (at least partly).

regards,
Waddie

Paul Pless
03-05-2011, 06:33 AM
the speculators have got us over the (oil) barrel.speculators eh?

Bob Adams
03-05-2011, 07:25 AM
Libby's oil production has been cut in half due the recent turmoil. Libya only produces a snort, yet prices at our pumps keep rising, dramatically.

Someone is manipulating the price of oil.

It's Lee.;)

Jim Mahan
03-05-2011, 08:53 AM
"Speculating on oil is not a crime, but if it precipitates a recession ..."
You can relax. According to Ian McColgin this doesn't happen.

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 09:23 AM
"Speculating on oil is not a crime, but if it precipitates a recession ..."
You can relax. According to Ian McColgin this doesn't happen.

anyone know how to compile a list of politicians who are tied to the oil industry...who might want to speculate?

SMARTINSEN
03-05-2011, 09:46 AM
anyone know how to compile a list of politicians who are tied to the oil industry...who might want to speculate?

Lopsidedly more Republican than Democrat. Not speculation, fact.

Canoeyawl
03-05-2011, 10:18 AM
Someone is manipulating the price of oil.
Vote republican, put 'em in charge of the country too.

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 10:50 AM
Lopsidedly more Republican than Democrat. Not speculation, fact.
it would be interesting to know, just the same...anyone here got an interest in artifically high gas prices? Perhaps someone pushing the global warming thing who wants to "enforce" his theories?

Bob Adams
03-05-2011, 11:27 AM
it would be interesting to know, just the same...anyone here got an interest in artifically high gas prices? Perhaps someone pushing the global warming thing who wants to "enforce" his theories?

See post 9 :d

LeeG
03-05-2011, 11:34 AM
Libby's oil production has been cut in half due the recent turmoil. Libya only produces a snort, yet prices at our pumps keep rising, dramatically.

Someone is manipulating the price of oil.

1.yes, it has been cut in half. When lots of people who run a refinery, port facility or guns are shot in the direction of rebels near refineries production is cut.
2. snort is not a sufficient word to describe how vulnerable prices are to supply disruption. 1% of world production isn't much but it's sweet high value crude. I've read that one barrel of Libya crude equals 3barrels of Saudi crude which is held up as the back-up supplier for disruptions.
3. people speculate on the price of grains, if weather threatens to disrupt a crop that will be on the market in three months the price of that grain goes up.

This is too important of a topic to throw out the same old bromides that the oil companies, Arabs, or sinister forces are the reason prices go up. You don't get a free pass posting bs.

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 12:09 PM
See post 9 :d

Really?

wardd
03-05-2011, 01:08 PM
i wonder why domestically produced and consumed oil prices go up with the world market price

does it suddenly become more expensive to produce and refine?

could it be greed?

LeeG
03-05-2011, 01:43 PM
i wonder why domestically produced and consumed oil prices go up with the world market price

does it suddenly become more expensive to produce and refine?

could it be greed?

I think it has something to do with the fact that the US produces 6% of the world oil, if it produced 50% of the world oil it would probably have more influence on prices. But since that's an impossibility it would probably make more sense to control how we use it.

LeeG
03-05-2011, 01:50 PM
it would be interesting to know, just the same...anyone here got an interest in artifically high gas prices? Perhaps someone pushing the global warming thing who wants to "enforce" his theories?

some people like having artifically low prices and let subsequent generations and folks downstream deal with the consequences. Fed gas taxes aren't sufficient to pay for highway maintenance, downstream consequences to urban sprawl are made possible by affordable transportation that those using the vehicles don't pay for,ie. dead zones in the gulf with dead fish. Fed tax policies encourage oil exploration and production which makes the gas a bit cheaper.
The militarization of our energy policy through arms sales and occupation of Iraq hides more of the cost of gasoline.
Phillip, you know how the real estate and financial bubble proved we were living beyond our means with gov't assisting financial institutions make irresponsible deals? Well here you go it's the same thing with oil. It's time to pay the piper.

Gerarddm
03-05-2011, 01:54 PM
Pump gas and home heating oil prices have nothing to do with basic supply and demand. It's that PLUS manipulation. I used to laugh bitterly at news reports that said a single refinery was down, and nationwide fuel prices were up accordingly. What nonsense.

The sun and wind don't jack up their prices on a whim, folks. Word.

wardd
03-05-2011, 01:55 PM
I think it has something to do with the fact that the US produces 6% of the world oil, if it produced 50% of the world oil it would probably have more influence on prices. But since that's an impossibility it would probably make more sense to control how we use it.

still, that oil could be sold and processed at the lower price

but i guess the oil companies need the money and really i don't mind giving them $4 a gallon

i'd just spend the money on food and business expenses, you know luxuries like that

Bob Adams
03-05-2011, 01:56 PM
Started partying yet Lee? You must be almost orgasmic over the price of oil.

LeeG
03-05-2011, 02:10 PM
still, that oil could be sold and processed at the lower price

but i guess the oil companies need the money and really i don't mind giving them $4 a gallon

i'd just spend the money on food and business expenses, you know luxuries like that

why would it be sold and processed at a lower price if there was cheaper oil available on the open market? We import oil from elsewhere because there isn't sufficient low priced oil to meet our domestic needs. We used that oil up in 1950, 1960, 1970. Look at various charts on how much people paid for transportation or food over time. We've been able to pay less and less for food and transportation with every decade, that trend line isn't a birthright, it's not something that comes with being born and there's no reason it should continue forever. That's like complaining that your income didn't keep increasing as you head to the end of your life. Trees don't grow to the sky and a depleting resource doesn't stay the same price with increasing demand.

LeeG
03-05-2011, 02:12 PM
Started partying yet Lee? You must be almost orgasmic over the price of oil.

Bob, I'm guessing you're capable of intelligent discussion on the topic but I haven't seen evidence of it given your preference for personal jabs.

wardd
03-05-2011, 02:15 PM
why would it be sold and processed at a lower price if there was cheaper oil available on the open market? We import oil from elsewhere because there isn't sufficient low priced oil to meet our domestic needs. We used that oil up in 1950, 1960, 1970. Look at various charts on how much people paid for transportation or food over time. We've been able to pay less and less for food and transportation with every decade, that trend line isn't a birthright, it's not something that comes with being born and there's no reason it should continue forever. That's like complaining that your income didn't keep increasing as you head to the end of your life. Trees don't grow to the sky and a depleting resource doesn't stay the same price with increasing demand.

we still produce some and that was the point of my post

i don't see how your comment relates to my post

LeeG
03-05-2011, 02:32 PM
yes we still produce but if there's more oil being produced elsewhere and it's cheaper than we aren't going to produce as much here. There's a reason why people buy socks made in China and not hand knitted socks from someone in Vermont. If you want to meet US needs more from US oil it'll be a LOT more expensive. If it matters US imports have dropped off significantly since 2008 and domestic production has gone up. So if you want t more US oil it's easy, just pay more for it, we used up the cheap stuff.

wardd
03-05-2011, 02:50 PM
yes we still produce but if there's more oil being produced elsewhere and it's cheaper than we aren't going to produce as much here. There's a reason why people buy socks made in China and not hand knitted socks from someone in Vermont. If you want to meet US needs more from US oil it'll be a LOT more expensive. If it matters US imports have dropped off significantly since 2008 and domestic production has gone up. So if you want t more US oil it's easy, just pay more for it, we used up the cheap stuff.

you totally missed my point

LeeG
03-05-2011, 03:00 PM
you totally missed my point

was this your point?

"still, that oil could be sold and processed at the lower price"

wardd
03-05-2011, 03:05 PM
was this your point?

"still, that oil could be sold and processed at the lower price"

yes, just because the world price of oil goes up , does the domestically produced oil have to follow, it costs no more to extract

LeeG
03-05-2011, 03:28 PM
yes, just because the world price of oil goes up , does the domestically produced oil have to follow, it costs no more to extract

I guess you could tell businesses they can't sell their oil on the world market and have to sell it below market value to Americans. Wouldn't that be nationalizing oil production?

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 03:29 PM
I guess you could tell businesses they can't sell their oil on the world market and have to sell it below market value to Americans. Wouldn't that be nationalizing oil production?

isn't that already done with water rights?

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 03:31 PM
some people like having artifically low prices and let subsequent generations and folks downstream deal with the consequences. Fed gas taxes aren't sufficient to pay for highway maintenance, downstream consequences to urban sprawl are made possible by affordable transportation that those using the vehicles don't pay for,ie. dead zones in the gulf with dead fish. Fed tax policies encourage oil exploration and production which makes the gas a bit cheaper.
The militarization of our energy policy through arms sales and occupation of Iraq hides more of the cost of gasoline.
Phillip, you know how the real estate and financial bubble proved we were living beyond our means with gov't assisting financial institutions make irresponsible deals? Well here you go it's the same thing with oil. It's time to pay the piper.

okay, lee...you have brought up artificially low prices...now what about artificially high prices.(to get back on point)

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 03:32 PM
i wonder why domestically produced and consumed oil prices go up with the world market price

does it suddenly become more expensive to produce and refine?

could it be greed?

what about those old "windfall profits taxes"

wardd
03-05-2011, 03:47 PM
what about those old "windfall profits taxes"

you'll never make it in the republican party

wardd
03-05-2011, 03:49 PM
okay, lee...you have brought up artificially low prices...now what about artificially high prices.(to get back on point)

during the enron electric shortage the only city in cali that didn't have a problem had a municiple power plant

LeeG
03-05-2011, 03:56 PM
okay, lee...you have brought up artificially low prices...now what about artificially high prices.(to get back on point)

so take the average Phillip, what direction is it going and why? In the past when supply was constricted do to political reasons and war it went up and consumers shifted to higher efficiency use as well as new investments in supplies then the average went down. Did you complain before when the price of oil went down? Ok, now total world demand has gone up and total world supply hasn't. Guess where the average went? It went up. Get used to it.

http://www.tradersnarrative.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/historical%20price%20of%20oil.png

1988 to 2003 was a low price period. Sorry it didn't last forever. Turns out that there's a billion more people on the planet who are consuming a LOT more, maybe going from 1/20 our consumption per capita to 1/10, or 1/10 to 1/2. In that time mother nature didn't make more oil. What more oil there is is harder and more expensive to get. You know what that means don't you? More people getting slices out of a shrinking pie. Nothing artificial about that, it's what is happening.

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 03:59 PM
so take the average Phillip, what direction is it going and why? In the past when supply was constricted do to political reasons and war it went up and consumers shifted to higher efficiency use as well as new investments in supplies then the average went down. Did you complain before when the price of oil went down? Ok, now total world demand has gone up and total world supply hasn't. Guess where the average went? It went up. Get used to it.

http://www.tradersnarrative.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/historical%20price%20of%20oil.png

1988 to 2003 was a low price period. Sorry it didn't last forever. Turns out that there's a billion more people on the planet who are consuming a LOT more, maybe going from 1/20 our consumption per capita to 1/10, or 1/10 to 1/2. In that time mother nature didn't make more oil. What more oil there is is harder and more expensive to get. You know what that means don't you? More people getting slices out of a shrinking pie. Nothing artificial about that, it's what is happening.

let me understand...are you elevating prices to address an injustice endured earlier when you feel you were'nt making enough $?

(is it your turn to be deputy-god?)

LeeG
03-05-2011, 04:20 PM
let me understand...are you elevating prices to address an injustice endured earlier when you feel you were'nt making enough $?

(is it your turn to be deputy-god?)

I have no ability to allow you understanding, that is all under your control. Why you are personalizing this topic is beyond me. I do not control world prices anymore than you set the price of cement in the US.

LeeG
03-05-2011, 04:36 PM
More for Phillip and others decrying the unfairness of volatile oil prices. It's not going to get less volatile.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudis-mobilise-thousands-of-troops-to-quell-growing-revolt-2232928.html

By Robert Fisk, Middle East Correspondent
Saturday, 5 March 2011SHARE PRINTEMAILTEXT SIZE NORMALLARGEEXTRA LARGE

Saudi Arabia was yesterday drafting up to 10,000 security personnel into its north-eastern Shia Muslim provinces, clogging the highways into Dammam and other cities with busloads of troops in fear of next week's "day of rage" by what is now called the "Hunayn Revolution".

Saudi Arabia's worst nightmare – the arrival of the new Arab awakening of rebellion and insurrection in the kingdom – is now casting its long shadow over the House of Saud. Provoked by the Shia majority uprising in the neighbouring Sunni-dominated island of Bahrain, where protesters are calling for the overthrow of the ruling al-Khalifa family, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is widely reported to have told the Bahraini authorities that if they do not crush their Shia revolt, his own forces will.

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/what-about-a-revolution-in-oil-dependency-1.347084

The graph of oil prices during the past 40 years precisely depicts the relations among the major powers. The soaring prices in the 1970s in the wake of the Yom Kippur War and the revolution in Iran had a very negative effect on the status of the United States - the world's largest oil importer - and strengthened the Soviet Union, whose economy relied on exported energy. The crash of oil prices at the end of the 1980s toppled the USSR. Its economy was not able to bear the burden of maintaining the Soviet empire without the flow of petrodollars.

The price of oil shot up again in 2008 and presaged the world financial crisis, which knocked out America and undermined its self-confidence. The big beneficiary that time was China, which also imports oil but whose economy is still less dependent on it than that of the United States. The financial crisis led to a political turnaround, which brought President Barack Obama into power. Oil prices dropped again, and revived with the rise in demand last year. Ultimately, America's weakness affected the oil exporters: The shock waves sparked by the financial crisis are now causing the collapse of the regimes in the Arab countries, which enjoyed the sponsorship and protection of the United States.

Cars, ships and planes, and a large proportion of the trains in the world, are powered by gasoline or diesel fuel. The modern way of life depends entirely on these means of transportation. Gal Luft, an Israeli researcher who during the past decade has been preaching to the Americans about "energy security," gives an example in a lecture that everyone understands: In certain rural or suburban communities in countries like the United States, it is impossible to buy a loaf of bread without getting into the car and driving to the store. This means that without available petroleum, these areas' inhabitants will simply starve. In large cities like New York and Chicago, the trains may run on electricity, but the supply of food from the countryside to the city depends on petroleum.

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 04:42 PM
More for Phillip and others decrying the unfairness of volatile oil prices. It's not going to get less volatile.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudis-mobilise-thousands-of-troops-to-quell-growing-revolt-2232928.html

By Robert Fisk, Middle East Correspondent
Saturday, 5 March 2011SHARE PRINTEMAILTEXT SIZE NORMALLARGEEXTRA LARGE

Saudi Arabia was yesterday drafting up to 10,000 security personnel into its north-eastern Shia Muslim provinces, clogging the highways into Dammam and other cities with busloads of troops in fear of next week's "day of rage" by what is now called the "Hunayn Revolution".

Saudi Arabia's worst nightmare – the arrival of the new Arab awakening of rebellion and insurrection in the kingdom – is now casting its long shadow over the House of Saud. Provoked by the Shia majority uprising in the neighbouring Sunni-dominated island of Bahrain, where protesters are calling for the overthrow of the ruling al-Khalifa family, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is widely reported to have told the Bahraini authorities that if they do not crush their Shia revolt, his own forces will.

it may not be so bad...once everything settles down and your justice manifests itself...prices should be back down to .30/gallon

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 04:43 PM
I have no ability to allow you understanding, that is all under your control. Why you are personalizing this topic is beyond me. I do not control world prices anymore than you set the price of cement in the US.

"nothin up my sleeve"

LeeG
03-05-2011, 05:23 PM
it may not be so bad...once everything settles down and your justice manifests itself...prices should be back down to .30/gallon

Phillip, you don't appear to process information at all.

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 05:25 PM
Phillip, you don't appear to process information at all.

I think what you mean is "approved" information...sorry

LeeG
03-05-2011, 05:28 PM
I think what you mean is "approved" information...sorry

Phillip, once you are ready to bring information to the thread we can have a conversation, what you are doing now is childish game playing that insults your age and my commitment to understanding the topic.

Phillip Allen
03-05-2011, 05:30 PM
Phillip, once you are ready to bring information to the thread we can have a conversation, what you are doing now is childish game playing that insults your age and my commitment to understanding the topic.

I think you've given all you're good for...so, carry on without me

epoxyboy
03-05-2011, 09:31 PM
Libby's oil production has been cut in half due the recent turmoil. Libya only produces a snort, yet prices at our pumps keep rising, dramatically.

Someone is manipulating the price of oil.

A good friend of mine has spent the better part of the last three years working on drilling rigs in the big sandpit around Libya. Sink a well, verify the flow (the company collects a bounty for every good'un), cap it, and move on to the next location. He says Libya is sitting on literally hundreds of these untapped productive wells spread all over the country. It looks like they only "produce a snort" because it suits them to do so, and no doubt they are planning to charge like a wounded bull when everyone else runs dry.

Pete

S/V Laura Ellen
03-05-2011, 09:36 PM
What Libya produces is light sweet oil, hard to find good sources these days.
Impact on the supply of sweet crude has a large impact on the oil markets.

epoxyboy
03-05-2011, 10:17 PM
Regardless of whether or not the price of oil is artificially inflated (and yeah, I think to a certain extent it is), the fact remains that it is a global market, and why wouldn't US domestic oil producers sell at that global price - they would be cutting their own throats if they didn't - that is the way capitalism works, isn't it? . It's pretty basic high school economics, and it is beyond me why some you are shooting Lee down for pointing this out.
New Zealand is one of the worlds largest and most efficient procers of dairy products, and on the logic put forward by Philip Allen and others, you would think a pint of milk here in NZ should be really cheap - right?
Fat chance. We pay whatever price the gobal market for dairy solids will support, and in NZ$ which aren't worth a pinch of s**t. The result is that it is no longer affordable for many families, and sales volumes of milk and cheese here have actually fallen pretty substantially. Simple supply and demand coupled with a pinch of unfettered capitalism and three drops of free trade agreement.
Your oil is no different. Get used to it.

Pete

wardd
03-05-2011, 10:29 PM
Regardless of whether or not the price of oil is artificially inflated (and yeah, I think to a certain extent it is), the fact remains that it is a global market, and why wouldn't US domestic oil producers sell at that global price - they would be cutting their own throats if they didn't - that is the way capitalism works, isn't it? . It's pretty basic high school economics, and it is beyond me why some you are shooting Lee down for pointing this out.
New Zealand is one of the worlds largest and most efficient procers of dairy products, and on the logic put forward by Philip Allen and others, you would think a pint of milk here in NZ should be really cheap - right?
Fat chance. We pay whatever price the gobal market for dairy solids will support, and in NZ$ which aren't worth a pinch of s**t. The result is that it is no longer affordable for many families, and sales volumes of milk and cheese here have actually fallen pretty substantially. Simple supply and demand coupled with a pinch of unfettered capitalism and three drops of free trade agreement.
Your oil is no different. Get used to it.

Pete

lots of things that were considered vital to the nation have had controls on them

oznabrag
03-06-2011, 12:44 AM
I think you've given all you're good for...so, carry on without me

And I have never before encountered anyone so utterly, willfully, obstinately and proudly ignorant as you are.

jbelow
03-06-2011, 01:35 AM
And I have never before encountered anyone so utterly, willfully, obstinately and proudly ignorant as you are.

I'm envious , I thought you would save such kind words for me.

Bob Adams
03-06-2011, 06:06 AM
Bob, I'm guessing you're capable of intelligent discussion on the topic but I haven't seen evidence of it given your preference for personal jabs.

I'd like to think so. Yes, I jab at you because you are like a skipping record, repeating the same mantra time after time. I asked you before what you do for a living. Like many here, you take an eletist tone that makes me think you are in a position which will allow you to absorb the increased costs that will ruin those of us in the working middle class. I agree we need to wean ourselves of oil for many uses, such as transportation saving it for other uses for which there is no subsitute. I just feel you don't have to impoverish a whole class of people to do so. Let's innovate, like the U.S. used to be capable of doing.

LeeG
03-06-2011, 01:50 PM
I'd like to think so.

Then do it.

Our personal issues don't define the facts or history of oil use in the country and the world. "we" weaned ourselves off of oil for electrical generation after the '73 price spike but there's NOTHING better for a transportation fuel. NOTHING. Here we are a country with more vehicles in driveways and junkyards than people. What a fantastic inheritance mother nature gave us. Makes it possible to fire up a 2011 $23,000 300hp Mustang to drive a 200lb person to work.

http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/specifications/engine/

It's unfortunate you see yourself surrounded by elites as a bad thing. I think of a lot of the folks who do something very well as elites, piloting a boat, cooking a fantastic meal, creating music and understanding. Paladin is an elite, Keith and Ian make sharp arguments, BrianW has one hell of a unique life style, Lew cuts through the crap. I like being around elites.

Regarding the pricing of transportation fuel to encourage greater efficiency, well we could continue what we're doing. Hiding the cost of high consumption and letting the next generation deal with the consequences.

btw, I am not your elite. Come down to the kayak shop in Annapolis on some Saturday with some buns and I"ll contribute the hamburger, bbq Saturdays.

Bruce Hooke
03-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Didn't we try regulating the price of oil back in the 1970's and didn't it result in long lines at the gas pumps as demand exceeded supply?

Bruce Hooke
03-06-2011, 02:08 PM
Nobody seems to like commodities speculators but they do serve a useful purpose. Let's say I sign onto a contract with my home heating oil supplier to get oil at a fixed price though the winter. My home heating oil supplier is not typically going to take on the risk of guaranteeing that price themselves. I am pretty sure they turn around and buy oil futures (basically a promise to deliver a certain number of gallons of oil a certain date for a set price). Who is selling those futures? Speculators who are betting that when the time comes the actual price of oil purchased that day will be less than the price on the oil futures, and the speculator pockets the difference (or looses the difference if they bet wrong).

The same thing happens in the agricultural futures markets. Farmers can hedge their bets through the futures market by shifting some of the price risk to speculators. This helps the farmers even out their cash flow from year to year. Airlines make heavy use of the futures market to try to reduce their expose to oil price shocks. I bought a plane ticket yesterday for a trip in June and July. How much I paid for that ticket is now a done deal. If oil prices go up between now and the date of the flight in June the airline can't come back to me and ask for more money. What they can do is use the futures market to control their future cost of fuel.

Bruce Hooke
03-06-2011, 02:10 PM
lots of things that were considered vital to the nation have had controls on them

I can think of many more cases where we are artificially propping up prices rather than artificially keeping prices down. Typically, if prices are going to be artificially kept down their needs to be some sort of rationing system since supply and demand pretty nearly guarantees that demand will exceed supply if the price is kept below the market rate.