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Tylerdurden
02-22-2011, 08:30 AM
http://www.intifada-palestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/raymond-davis-afp21-640x480-550x412.jpg (http://www.intifada-palestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/raymond-davis-afp21-640x480-550x412.jpg)
By Joseph Fitsanakis
A British and a Pakistani newspaper have confirmed that an American diplomat, who is being held in Pakistan for killing two armed men in Lahore, is in reality an employee of the Central Intelligence Agency.
On January 25, former US Special Forces member Raymond Allen Davis (note: this may not be his real name) used an unregistered Glock semi-automatic pistol to shoot dead two passengers on a motorcycle, who he says tried to assault him while he was driving his car in Pakistan’s second largest city. Witnesses say Davis shot dead the one of the two men by firing ten shots from inside his vehicle, before stepping outside to shoot the second man as he was running away from the scene of the crime. Pakistani authorities say Davis’ claim to self-defense is discredited by the fact that the second man’s body was found almost 10 meters away from the motorcycle, bearing bullet wounds in his back. A third individual was struck and run over by a car carrying several armed Americans, whom Pakistanis say were also CIA operatives. The latter have since returned to the United States, according to Pakistani officials.
Soon after Davis’ arrest, US President Barack Obama insisted that Pakistani authorities had illegally captured a “US consulate worker” of an “administrative and technical” capacity, attached to the US consulate in Lahore. But British broadsheet The Guardian has now confirmed (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/20/us-raymond-davis-lahore-cia) that, according to information supplied by knowledgeable individuals in the US and Pakistan, Davis, 36, is “beyond a shadow of a doubt” an employee of the CIA. The paper also states that several US media outlets are aware of Davis’ intelligence capacity, but have refrained from revealing it under pressure from the US government.
Meanwhile, Pakistani newspaper The Nation has revealed (http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/21-Feb-2011/Davis-CIAs-acting-chief-in-Pakistan/1) that Davis has been serving as the CIA’s acting station chief in Pakistan since December, when Jonathan Banks, the Agency’s station chief there, was forced to leave the country after his cover was blown in a lawsuit. There are also suggestions, which are disputed by anonymous Pakistani officials, that the men killed by Davis were in fact officers of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, who were monitoring the CIA’s activities in Lahore. The Guardian says that the Pakistani government is “aware of Davis’s CIA status” but is afraid to release him, fearing “Egyptian-style protests” if Davis is allowed to return to Washington.
Source: intelNews.org (http://intelligencenews.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/01-660/)
http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2011/02/american-held-in-pakistan-is-acting-cia-station-chief/

paladin
02-22-2011, 08:35 AM
and if they don't release him.......it will get worse for Pakistan.

Tylerdurden
02-22-2011, 09:02 AM
You bethca. I don't want to think how this will turn out. Pakistan is between a rock and a hard place.

Tylerdurden
02-22-2011, 09:11 AM
"CIA spy" Davis was giving nuclear bomb material to Al-Qaeda, says report

http://in.news.yahoo.com/cia-spy-davis-giving-nuclear-bomb-material-al-20110219-224833-452.html

Tylerdurden
02-22-2011, 09:12 AM
FBI Says There Is A 100% Chance of WMD Attack Days After San Diego Nuke Story




http://theintelhub.com/2011/02/16/fbi-says-there-is-a-100-chance-of-wmd-attack-just-days-after-san-diego-nuke-story/

Tylerdurden
02-22-2011, 09:29 AM
US Caught in The Big Lie

http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2011/02/us-caught-in-big-lie.html

RodSBT
02-22-2011, 10:26 AM
Here's another article from ABC.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/ray-davis-us-fears-life-outed-cia-contractor/story?id=12968878

Just one more reason the founders warned of foreign entanglements.

boatbuddha
02-22-2011, 10:28 AM
Surprise, surprise, surprise. Didn't everyone who knows anything about the foreign service know this already? Do you know what state department officials are trained to do when attacked? Shred not shoot.

PhaseLockedLoop
02-22-2011, 01:13 PM
and if they don't release him.......it will get worse for Pakistan.

He shoulda chewed up his cyanide tooth and saved everyone a lot of trouble.

Gerarddm
02-22-2011, 02:12 PM
So how does the Pakistani newspaper 'know' that he was acting station chief? A leak from ISI?

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
02-22-2011, 03:33 PM
So how does the Pakistani newspaper 'know' that he was acting station chief? A leak from ISI?

A Colorado news outlet contacted his wife. She gave them a number to call, it was an office of the CIA, the place the number led to then changed their website, removing any mention of the CIA. The only other confirmation I've seen has been "an anonymous source."

paladin
02-22-2011, 05:43 PM
Lessee, a week or so ago I think I posted a single word when folks were questioning what he did.......you don't bring a firearm into most countries....it's handed to you when you report to work.

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
02-23-2011, 06:00 PM
New details emerge:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/21/raymond-davis-pakistan-cia-blackwater?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

paladin
02-23-2011, 06:29 PM
Well I got the "SPOOK" part right but Blackwater is a new game...ISI or not he may have screwed the pooch. The private contractor is there for a reason, so as not to implicate the CIA. I cannot recall where contractors were covered under the status of forces agreement. The agreement does say that you can carry a weapon properly licensed by the local government of .38 caliber or less for defense purposes. He had an illegal weapon according to the reports. And if those bodies have more than 2 rounds in them, and he fired after they were on the ground and immobile before witnesses, and the fact the person killed by the motorcade left the country, I would have to side with Pakistan.

paladin
02-23-2011, 10:13 PM
It appears that the ISI is splitting the sheets with the CIA, at least that's the noise they are making.....there goes a bunch of funding.
Now it may appear that the ISI trained and armed the Mumbai terrorists with U.S. supplied money and weapons given them by the CIA.

Syed
02-24-2011, 10:30 AM
BARACK OBAMA, US PRESIDENT: And the reason this is an important principle is if it starts being fair game on our ambassadors around the world, including in dangerous places where we may have differences with those governments, ... they start being vulnerable to prosecution locally, that's untenable. It means they can't do their job.

Transcript (http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3148392.htm)

Phillip Allen
02-24-2011, 10:35 AM
just out of curiosity...does anyone here think the "victims" were actually robbers?

Phillip Allen
02-24-2011, 10:38 AM
http://www.intifada-palestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/raymond-davis-afp21-640x480-550x412.jpg (http://www.intifada-palestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/raymond-davis-afp21-640x480-550x412.jpg)
By Joseph Fitsanakis
A British and a Pakistani newspaper have confirmed that an American diplomat, who is being held in Pakistan for killing two armed men in Lahore, is in reality an employee of the Central Intelligence Agency.
On January 25, former US Special Forces member Raymond Allen Davis (note: this may not be his real name) used an unregistered Glock semi-automatic pistol to shoot dead two passengers on a motorcycle, who he says tried to assault him while he was driving his car in Pakistan’s second largest city. Witnesses say Davis shot dead the one of the two men by firing ten shots from inside his vehicle, before stepping outside to shoot the second man as he was running away from the scene of the crime. Pakistani authorities say Davis’ claim to self-defense is discredited by the fact that the second man’s body was found almost 10 meters away from the motorcycle, bearing bullet wounds in his back. A third individual was struck and run over by a car carrying several armed Americans, whom Pakistanis say were also CIA operatives. The latter have since returned to the United States, according to Pakistani officials.
Soon after Davis’ arrest, US President Barack Obama insisted that Pakistani authorities had illegally captured a “US consulate worker” of an “administrative and technical” capacity, attached to the US consulate in Lahore. But British broadsheet The Guardian has now confirmed (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/20/us-raymond-davis-lahore-cia) that, according to information supplied by knowledgeable individuals in the US and Pakistan, Davis, 36, is “beyond a shadow of a doubt” an employee of the CIA. The paper also states that several US media outlets are aware of Davis’ intelligence capacity, but have refrained from revealing it under pressure from the US government.
Meanwhile, Pakistani newspaper The Nation has revealed (http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/21-Feb-2011/Davis-CIAs-acting-chief-in-Pakistan/1) that Davis has been serving as the CIA’s acting station chief in Pakistan since December, when Jonathan Banks, the Agency’s station chief there, was forced to leave the country after his cover was blown in a lawsuit. There are also suggestions, which are disputed by anonymous Pakistani officials, that the men killed by Davis were in fact officers of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, who were monitoring the CIA’s activities in Lahore. The Guardian says that the Pakistani government is “aware of Davis’s CIA status” but is afraid to release him, fearing “Egyptian-style protests” if Davis is allowed to return to Washington.
Source: intelNews.org (http://intelligencenews.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/01-660/)
http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2011/02/american-held-in-pakistan-is-acting-cia-station-chief/

BTW every time I look at the picture my eyes are drawn to the man appearing over Davis's left shoulder...not a guy I want to meed in a dark alley!

Ian McColgin
02-24-2011, 10:38 AM
Of course we'd make the argument that the murdering contractor operating to subvert Pakistan is really a diplomat. Doesn't make it true, or even very plausable.

This is one where I hope that President Obama and Secretary Clinton are doing something they really think is about national security but is morally repugnant. I like to imagine they have principles that I can share, even when those principles collide with a sense of duty, no matter how misplaced, and cause them to do what they know is wrong.

LeeG
02-24-2011, 10:48 AM
New details emerge:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/21/raymond-davis-pakistan-cia-blackwater?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

oh crap

"US officials have provided fresh details about Raymond Davis, the CIA agent at the centre of a diplomatic stand-off in Pakistan, including confirmation that he had worked for the private security contractor Xe, formerly known as Blackwater. They also disclosed for the first time that he had been providing security for a CIA team tracking militants."

CIA can make mistakes just like contracted employees working for the CIA can make mistakes. I wonder if the profit motive can muddy up command and control functions in quasi-military operations.

LeeG
02-24-2011, 10:51 AM
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/26940536/detail.html

A current senior U.S. official and a senior intelligence consultant who worked with Davis told ABC News that the 36-year-old American had been an employee of the company once known as Blackwater, now called Xe Services, and contracted to the CIA. He was posted to Lahore as part of the CIA's Global Response Staff, or GRS, a unit of security and bodyguards assigned to war zones and troubled countries such as Afghanistan and Pakistan. Members of the GRS most often accompany CIA case officers, who meet with clandestine sources.
...
A former Blackwater executive told ABC News that the CIA terminated the company's GRS contract in Pakistan, accusing the security company of failing to provide adequate services. The agency then moved to hire Davis and other the former Xe/Blackwater security personnel directly as independent contractors.


On Jan. 27, Davis left the safehouse and conducted an "area familiarization route," the senior U.S. official told ABC News. He drove through various Lahore neighborhoods for several hours. It was during his route, two U.S. officials say, that Davis stopped at an A.T.M. and possibly drew the attention of two Pakistani men on a motorcycle.
Davis has told the police in Lahore that the two men were attempting to rob him when he fired several rounds from his Glock handgun hitting them both. Davis fired multiple rounds from inside his car, killing one man in the street, while the second died later from his injuries.
Davis then called for help from several other CIA security officers who shared his Lahore safehouse, the U.S. official and the intelligence consultant told ABC News. As they arrived near the intersection, they accidentally hit a Pakistani bicyclist, the two officials said. The bicyclist later died of his injuries.
Davis' colleagues were unable to get to Davis before the police arrested him. They left the scene and returned to their safehouse.
Within hours, they had destroyed all government documents at the safehouse, abandoned it, and retreated to the US consulate for safety, ABC News reported. Both have since returned to the US, according to a senior U.S. official briefed on the case.

..

But the U.S. has refused to elaborate publicly on Davis' position in Pakistan except to say he was a "technical advisor" for the consulate in Lahore and to refer to him as a "diplomat" in public statements.
As a GRS officer, Davis made $780 per day working as a security guard for the agency's clandestine case officers, ABC News reported. One official described his job as always being "a few tables away" from a case officer meeting with a clandestine source, and providing security escorts around the country.

LeeG
02-24-2011, 10:57 AM
at least we can say Tylerdurdens thread title is a total fabrication

Syed
02-24-2011, 10:57 AM
Hamid Gul (ex-ISI chief) said a few days back," It is not the man US government is worried about but the mission he was working on.

Y Bar Ranch
02-24-2011, 11:03 AM
The man is a Great American Hero. Going right into the viper's nest hunting them down our enemies where they live.

The man was covert. The absolute last thing that this guy would ever, ever want to do is get into a gunfight with anyone over there, blow his cover, get arrested and become a pawn, or worse get himself killed. Kudos to Hillary and Obama for covering his six.

LeeG
02-24-2011, 11:15 AM
he was an employee of Xe hired by the CIA to guard their agents, he was casing the neighborhoods, went to an atm, was followed and there was a gunfight with a teenager on a bicycle run over when other agents tried to come to his rescue.

Y Bar Ranch
02-24-2011, 11:22 AM
he was an employee of Xe...

Nope

Syed
02-24-2011, 11:25 AM
There was no gunfight, nobody fired a single bullet except the hero. The guns recovered from the victims were without bullets.

Y Bar Ranch
02-24-2011, 11:29 AM
There was no gunfight, nobody fired a single bullet except the hero. The guns recovered from the victims were without bullets.

Is it true the victims were ISI agents tailing him? Looking to intimidate him?

Osborne Russell
02-24-2011, 11:30 AM
The absolute last thing that this guy would ever, ever want to do . . .

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Again with the injured innocence. We flood your country with armed mercenary spies and lie to you about it but they're good guys and in fact, to us, they're heroes.

I see Pakistan's intelligence service threatens to cut ties to the CIA.

Y Bar Ranch
02-24-2011, 11:36 AM
We flood your country with armed mercenary spies and lie to you about it...
How naive to think they don't know.

LeeG
02-24-2011, 11:59 AM
Nope

You are correct, my error, former Xe employee who used to guard CIA and now works for the CIA.

"He was posted to Lahore as part of the CIA's Global Response Staff, or GRS, a unit of security and bodyguards assigned to war zones and troubled countries such as Afghanistan and Pakistan."

"the CIA terminated the company's GRS contract in Pakistan, accusing the security company of failing to provide adequate services. The agency then moved to hire Davis and other the former Xe/Blackwater security personnel directly as independent contractors."


"As a GRS officer, Davis made $780 per day working as a security guard for the agency's clandestine case officers, ABC News reported"

Dr. Arthur Trollingson
02-24-2011, 01:04 PM
the man is a war profiteer. Going right into an allied country, hunting down foreign nationals where they live.


ftfy

paladin
02-24-2011, 03:23 PM
just out of curiosity...does anyone here think the "victims" were actually robbers?

They had guns....but supposedly no bullets. In the U.S. using an unloaded gun to commit a crime carries the same penalty as using a loaded one.

PeterSibley
02-24-2011, 03:35 PM
Of course we'd make the argument that the murdering contractor operating to subvert Pakistan is really a diplomat. Doesn't make it true, or even very plausable.

This is one where I hope that President Obama and Secretary Clinton are doing something they really think is about national security but is morally repugnant. I like to imagine they have principles that I can share, even when those principles collide with a sense of duty, no matter how misplaced, and cause them to do what they know is wrong.

Moral repugnance and the CIA go together so ,so well since the bombing of Laos .

Phillip Allen
02-24-2011, 03:39 PM
They had guns....but supposedly no bullets. In the U.S. using an unloaded gun to commit a crime carries the same penalty as using a loaded one.

I am aware of that... claiming they were not loaded is pretty lame and reflects very poorly on the speaker if he thinks that ought to mitigate any crime.
what I asked was if they were actually robbers and if so, it would follow, why the big fuss?

Phillip Allen
02-24-2011, 03:42 PM
ya know, it would be a bad idea to let this guy bite the bullet unless we want a rebellion from every field agent in the business...they have precious little safety as is and feeling they might be abandoned at the drop of a political "chip" would make them feel unsafe in the extreme

PeterSibley
02-24-2011, 03:47 PM
When something gets this public Phillip ,there is a problem .Pakistan is not quite stable right now and isn't exactly a ''willing '' partner .

Phillip Allen
02-24-2011, 03:48 PM
When something gets this public Phillip ,there is a problem .Pakistan is not quite stable right now and isn't exactly a ''willing '' partner .

I know it's complicated...I'd have a hard time fixing it myself :)

paladin
02-24-2011, 08:19 PM
I would think more of perhaps asking the Pakistani people how they wanted to fix it, then step back and give assistance if asked for.

PeterSibley
02-24-2011, 11:33 PM
I would think more of perhaps asking the Pakistani people how they wanted to fix it, then step back and give assistance if asked for.

You might get 1000 factional answers ..who do you help ? Ah ! Ask the CIA !

Syed
02-25-2011, 07:03 AM
"What if the other guys did the same thing here? Would the U.S. allow the Pakistani agent to go free?"

Link (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/02/23/raymond_davis_diplomatic_immunity)

Ian McColgin
02-25-2011, 07:18 AM
Superb link Syed.

It's more specific, a better explanation, and perhaps a little more likely to at least be read by our America-firsters than the glib invitation to research the conventions that I made on another thread.

Thank you.

paladin
02-25-2011, 07:39 AM
I betcha the U.S. would not release a Pakistani under the same circumstances. And the info is correct. The weapon should be registered with the Pakistani police, by convention it is .38 caliber or less and a maximum of 40 rounds of ammunition will be in possession of the holder.
A couple of years ago I posted a copy of my firearms permit, as issued. The U.S. may also send a letter thru the embassy each time you change locations, stating how long you are expected to work at that particular place. Each year the weapon will be examined to insure that it's still in your posession, you still have 40 rounds of ammo, and your passport/documentation is correct.