rowboat questions

[Kevin Squires]

Hi again, forum friends - I'm still seeking "Whisp" plans, but in the meantime, have been considering other possibilities, and would appreciate comments/opinions. The Gloucester Gull might interest me, but might have a bit too much freeboard for breezy excursions - has anyone lowered the sheer on one?? And I've just come across the "Scilly Gig" and "Rebecca" at Bateau.com - does anyone have any experience/opinions on those designs? Thanks KS :confused:

[John Bell]

I wouldn't cut down a Gull in the middle part of the boat, it would be dangerous. Cutting down the high ends may help reduce windage, but it's really going to detract from the charm of the design. I've got a similar boat to Gull, about the same midsection with a flatter sheer and lower ends. It's a real joy to row, but it is a bit more homely to look at compared to the dramatic sweep of Gull.

The design is Sportdory by Michalak.

http://www.mindspring.com/~jmbell/12-30dory4.jpg

http://www.mindspring.com/~jmbell/dory.htm

[KENSTER]

I just had my Whisp out this past Sunday for the first time in four or five years. We rowed out to an island for a lite picnic, so I had some gear in the boat. I guess I had forgotten how much the transom drags when loaded. Once we arrived I unloaded and rowed around a bit, what a differece with the stern out of the water, she peforms sooo nice. My point is this, I believe that her design is very weight sensitive to effort and performance. I will be building Shearwater a Joel White design this winter, I hope the the double ender does not drag and will not be effected as much by additional weight. It has been said many times that all boats are a compromise, you need a lot of them to have the right one for all the different conditions, but that's why I keep building. Ken

[TomRobb]

Kenster,
How does one pronounce Athol? Like a lisping insult? :D
Seriously, might you be amenable to loaning your plans to our intrepid builder?

[Donn]

Originally posted by TomRobb:

Seriously, might you be amenable to loaning your plans to our intrepid builder?Is that kosher?

[Ian McColgin]

I've been rowing a gull much of this summer. Don't worry about windage. The boat's very nicely designed and has neither too little nor too much freeboard, at least for winds below 35 kt and waves below 3'.

Enjoy

[TomRobb]

Donn, I don't know. But it seems to me that if Steve wanted his money he'd be selling plans.
I said "loaned" so there'd be no under the table money changing hands - perhaps an ethical glitch.
If conscience requires, put the price of the plans in escrow for - what's death presumed after? 12 years? If Redmond wants it he can ask for it. If not take the money and donate it to charity.
It's not like anyone is molesting children here. It's only the lines for a boat that the designer seems to have abandoned :rolleyes:

[DougC]

I rowed a gull this summer -- very nice handling boat. It's construction looks very straightforward. I had considered this design but went with a more complicated (and heavier) lapstrake Swampscott dory. Hope to launch this month (?).
Have you looked at any of Pete Culler's skiffs? The plans are available through Mystic Seaport. Mystic also sells plans for the Amesbury skiff which is featured in John Gardner's "Classic Small Craft You Can Build." Anyone have any experience with these boats?
I also came across Devlin's "Oarling" which is a longer leaner glouster gull that can be fitted with a sliding seat. Anyone know about this one?
If you want to go bigger and heavier there's the Marblehead gunning dory, which is what Ian has.
Anyone know the weight of a Glouster Gull?
Back to the gunwales . . .
Doug

[Donn]

Tom..I was just asking. I don't know what the conventions are in boat building. I also didn't know that the designer wasn't selling the plans any more.

I come from an industry that is very copyright conscious, although it deals with and even supports the age-old practice of book loaning.

Are there "libraries" of boat plans?

[JimConlin]

And if you want to get one notch sportier, Ken Bassett's 'Liz' and 'Firefly' designs are 18' sliding seat boats (lapstrake and hard-chine respectively). Plans from WB. SWMBO is quite happy with her 'Liz'.

[mmd]

Regarding "loaning" boat plans: In theory, a set of plans is sold with the inplicit or stated restriction that the plans are to be used to build one boat only. Additional boats usually require payment of a royalty fee, usually less than the cost of the original plans. I realize that this is rarely adhered to in home-built small craft construction, but that is the way it is supposed to be. In this situation (and this is just my opinion and I cannot speak for Mr. Redmond) I would make every effort possible to contact him through various means to ask permission to loan the plans. Record the details of your attempts to contact him so that you can prove that you tried, and after a reasonable time (say, four to six weeks) loan the plans to your buddy FOR ONE BOAT ONLY, and set aside the money for the complete cost of the set of plans in an envelope with Mr. Redmond's name on it and put it away with your collection of WB magazines for that day when he calls looking for his money. If he doesn't call in five years, go quickly to your local nautical watering hole and buy a round for the house on Mr. Redmond's money.

[DougC]

Jim, what construction method did you use to build the "Liz"? Is she a very difficult boat to build? Looks like a great design for a pulling boat. Any other insights about this boat would be apreciated. Thanks, Doug

[JimConlin]

It was built in glued lapstrake, mostly 4mm okoume plywood with 6mm sapele sheerstrakes. The stem and backbone were approximately per the plans. With the counsel of the designer, there were seven, rather than six strakes per side. The finished hull weighs about 65 lbs.

I used a Piantedosi drop-in rowing rig. It comprises the foot stretcher, sliding seat and outriggers, weighs about 19 lbs., and is attached to the boat by two bolts. Being able to separate the weighty bits for transport is welcome. The Piantedosi unit is well made.

Difficult is a relative term. I used the 'Tom Hill' method, which helped a lot. My job of lining off is less than perfect. There were times when an 18 foot strip of 4mm x 4" plywood was pretty ornery, and the reverse curves in tha planking at the transom were a challenge, but it all came out pretty well. It's certainly not an easy or fast boat to build.

In assessing the product, the client (SWMBO) and I are very pleased. It's a DELIGHT to row. It's quite amazing how little humanpower it takes to get it to hull speed. I think that if I were to build one for myself, it'd be stretched to 21 or 22 feet. Depending on how i felt at the time about aesthetics vs. practicality, I might build it in cedar strip or maybe even Core-Cell composite. It'd be faster to build and more tolerant of bangs than the soft okoume.

Hope this helps,
Jim

[TomRobb]

Donn, no criticism was implied by me. The roll-eyes part is because so many guys ask about Whisp and where to find Redmond. It's sort of vaguely frustrating to read yet another one and the ethical hoops we try to jump through. There are some really serious problems confronting all of us and we worry (IMHO) far too much about this one.
Tom

[DougC]

Jim, thanks for the details. Were you and your Liz at Mystic in June? I think we saw you. Ken Bassett's boats look great on paper and I was happy to finally see one in the flesh. What construction method did Ken Bassett originally have in mind for his plans? Glad to see it translated into an ultralight.
Speaking of which, and to get back to the start of this thread, Tim Hill features Redmond skiffs and includes an address for the now defunct Redmond plans. Maybe he should try and license them himself, or come up with a classic new ultralight skiff based on some tried and true lines. Tim, you out there?
Doug

[JimConlin]

Yes, I was at Mystic in June.
Ken's plans for Liz call for traditional construction- 1/4" cedar planking, dozens of skinny steamed oak ribs, maybe 1,000 copper rivets. The full treatment. I don't know how many have been built that way.
Tom Hill was alive, well and showing a couple of smalle glued lap canoes at the WB show last month. I gather he's been busy with bigger boats.
Doug- contact me off-list if you'd like to take a row.
Jim

[DougC]

Jim, so that was you. The boat on your website matches up with one I took a picture of at Mystic. I may be in your neck of the woods next month -- I will contact you if I am. Does anyone have any other pictures of Liz? MAybe time for another thread . . . Doug