Restoration 94 ft. wooden boat

[New Buccaneer]

Hi All,

I have just bought a 1951, 94 ft. wooden boat, said to be Trumpy (not confirm). She need restoration. She is drydocked at Greenwich, 08323 NJ. I am looking for good marine carpenter within this area to refurbish the bottom/hull. The survey says the bottom/hull sound well. Any info/advice will be highly appreciated.

Thanks

[Thad Van Gilder]

So, your from Nigeria, eh...

[*LB]

DEAR MR. BUCCANEER,

HAVING CONSULTED WITH MY COLLEAGUES AND BASED ON THE INFORMATION GATHERED FROM THE NIGERIAN CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY, I HAVE THE PRIVILEGE TO REQUEST FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE TO TRANSFER THE SUM OF $47,500,000.00 (FORTY SEVEN MILLION, FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS) INTO YOUR ACCOUNTS IN ORDER TO HELP YOU FIND A SUITABLE TRUMPY DOCTOR FOR YOUR BOTTOM. THE ABOVE SUM RESULTED FROM AN OVER-INVOICED CONTRACT, EXECUTED COMMISSIONED AND PAID FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO BY A FOREIGN CONTRACTOR. THIS ACTION WAS HOWEVER INTENTIONAL AND SINCE THEN THE FUND HAS BEEN IN A SUSPENSE ACCOUNT AT THE CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA APEX BANK.

WE ARE NOW READY TO TRANSFER THE FUND OVERSEAS AND THAT IS WHERE YOU COME IN. IT IS IMPORTANT TO INFORM YOU THAT AS CIVIL SERVANTS, WE ARE FORBIDDEN TO OPERATE A FOREIGN ACCOUNT; THAT IS WHY WE REQUIRE YOUR ASSISTANCE. THE TOTAL SUM WILL BE SHARED AS FOLLOWS: 70% FOR US, 25% FOR YOU AND 5% FOR LOCAL AND INTERNATIONAL EXPENSES INCIDENT TO THE TRANSFER.

THE TRANSFER IS RISK FREE ON BOTH SIDES. I AM AN ACCOUNTANT WITH THE NIGERIAN NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION (NNPC). IF YOU FIND THIS PROPOSAL ACCEPTABLE, WE SHALL REQUIRE THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTS:

(A) YOUR BANKER'S NAME, TELEPHONE, ACCOUNT AND FAX NUMBERS.

(B) YOUR PRIVATE TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBERS -- FOR CONFIDENTIALITY AND EASY COMMUNICATION.

(C) YOUR LETTER-HEADED PAPER STAMPED AND SIGNED.

ALTERNATIVELY WE WILL FURNISH YOU WITH THE TEXT OF WHAT TO TYPE INTO YOUR LETTER-HEADED PAPER, ALONG WITH A BREAKDOWN EXPLAINING, COMPREHENSIVELY WHAT WE REQUIRE OF YOU. THE BUSINESS WILL TAKE US THIRTY (30) WORKING DAYS TO ACCOMPLISH.

PLEASE REPLY URGENTLY.

BEST REGARDS,

TRUMPY BOTTOMS, ESQ

[Wild Dingo]

:D :D :D

but wait!!!

What if...

I mean what if...

Just... I mean... maybe...

Nah LBs got it in one :cool: :D

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Now wait just a damn minute guys- Lets give NB a chance here- at least as much a chance as we gave Salli and Gabe to dig themselves into an obvious subtrafuge. The poor guy only posted 3 lines asking for ships carpenteer. Granted he may be nuts for buying a 94' wooden boat that needs resto, but being nuts dosen't mean he's dishonest. Perhaps he's a man of means that can handle such a project and only wishes out guidence that the job may go smoothly and well. So come on NB- give us details and maybe a pix or two.

[mmd]

The bilge water is rising to the upper decks... :rolleyes:

[paladin]

yeah! Give the poor guy a chance...benefit of the doubt.....

[nedL]

Yea, give him a chance, afterall Nigeria does have some coast line..... Nah, I think we're taking on water fast, pump the bilge!! :D

[George.]

I say we let Don (sic) check him out, and report back to us...

[New Buccaneer]

Sirs!
1. I am not a Nigerian. I work at Nigeria. I am 53 years old, M.Sc. Electrical Engineer and MBA but adventurer, dreamer and crazy man who's fighting for his dreams
2. Not all Nigerians are frauders. There are frauders at USA too and I can proove it.
3. I bought the 94 footer from Mr. Greg Thompson, Atlantic Coast Yahts Sales Inc., Margate, NJ. Tel. 609-5176450. Feel free to check.

LB. Yes! There are such stories at Nigeria.

Will Dingo,
Dale R.Hamilton,
Paladin,
Nedl
Thank you.

I am absolutely new in boating. I haven't seen this boat yet. Only by pictures.
I am still checking is she Trumpy? There is a contraversion information. Any advice how am I to post some picks to the forum?
So? Can I rely on help/advice?

Thanks

[nedL]

Well, if this is legitimate & you are looking for someone in the NJ area to check out her bottom or do some bottom work I'd suggest contacting the Johnson Brother's boat yard in Bay Head NJ, or the Beaton Brother's boat yard in Mantaloking NJ. They both still work on & build wooden boats & do top quality work. (Though 90+ feet is larger than they usually work on.)

[ 09-09-2005, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: nedL ]

[Norske3]

You bought a BIG boat without seeing it?

[New Buccaneer]

Yes, Norske3. That is what I did!

NedL. Thank youy very much. Any tel. numbers or e-mail addresses to these companies or I will look at Internet for.?
Any advice how to post 2-3 pics of her at the forum?

Thanks again

[Dick Wynne]

Here she is:

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/3/0/6/4/1306445_1_thumb.jpg

[martin schulz]

Oh, we are talking about a MOBO - I'm off...

[Thad Van Gilder]

OK,
I'll give it a go.

I keep IVY only 2 miles from Margate, NJ.

Where is the boat located? I can swing by it and see it any weekend.

let me know the boat's local, and I'll give her a look.

It's not Eugenia, is it? she's in that size range, in the area, and she looks like a Trumpy, but she's a wheeler. she was at Yank's for a long time in Tuckahoe, NJ.

-Thad

[Thad Van Gilder]

Oh, It's in Greenwich.

I will be passing near there on the way to Baltimore on Sunday. I am always looking for new boatyards to scrounge through, so maybe I can take a look.

-Thad

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Well NB, we can all agree then that you are crazy. Now that you are certified as one of us, perhaps we can get down to business. I have great respect for Thad's judgement and opinion, so if he can get a look at it this weekend- with the idea of either proceding- or bailing out now. IF you proceed, then a survey is in order- to at least establish priorities and a long range solution. Are you able to do any of this yourself- and if, so, at what point can you jump in? Will this boat have to be relocated to Nigeria- how/when will you do that? Do you have any idea of conditions of her mechanical systems? as replacing anything mechanical on a 94 footer scale will be impressive. History of the boat- Can a previous owner provide her repair history? IF this is the case, maybe one of the yards that worked on her before, can bid on future resto. Finally- presume you know the price of diesel- Can you afford to feed her existing engines or will these have to be replaced as well?

The more details you can supply- the better able WBF is to assist you. As for me, I'm ready to issue an opinion anytime without benefit of information.

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Thad Van Gilder:
Oh, It's in Greenwich.

I will be passing near there on the way to Baltimore on Sunday. I am always looking for new boatyards to scrounge through, so maybe I can take a look.

-ThadGet the Name on the Transom...and Fed Documentation Number

[Thad Van Gilder]

Thanks Dale!

Greenwich is a very small town with only one road going to the Cohancy creek,(If I recall corectly) so, It shouldn't be to hard to find a 94 footer there.

-Thad

[Thad Van Gilder]

Doesn't the Coast Guard require documentation numbers to be carved into a deckbeam, or something like that?

I don't mind looking inside comeplete hulks, but if this 94 footer is even close to resembling a Trumpy, I wouldn't just climb aboard.

I dunno If I could get the documentation numbers...

NB, If your checking this out,
please either email me at
sailorguy26f2@hotmail.com
or respond right here.

Let me know what marina or boat yard this things at. I'll look her over and If you want, I can help you out with a surveyor.

I do survey wood boats in south Jersey, but I have never checked out a boat bigger than 60 feet, and I don't survey engines. just hulls and sailboat rigs.

This guy down there, Joe Walton, has a great name among wood boat surveyors, and he might have the experience to survey a 94 footer.

-Thad

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Thad Van Gilder:
Doesn't the Coast Guard require documentation numbers to be carved into a deckbeam, or something like that?

I don't mind looking inside comeplete hulks, but if this 94 footer is even close to resembling a Trumpy, I wouldn't just climb aboard.

I dunno If I could get the documentation numbers...

NB, If your checking this out,
please either email me at
sailorguy26f2@hotmail.com
or respond right here.

Let me know what marina or boat yard this things at. I'll look her over and If you want, I can help you out with a surveyor.

I do survey wood boats in south Jersey, but I have never checked out a boat bigger than 60 feet, and I don't survey engines. just hulls and sailboat rigs.

This guy down there, Joe Walton, has a great name among wood boat surveyors, and he might have the experience to survey a 94 footer.

-ThadProbably not a Deck beam, but if you open the center hatch over the engines and look forward you should see the carved number in a main beam,,,

I tried searching using just the name Buccaneer and found several but not this one, so using the number would be better

Just a note that there are numbers over a million now so the guy with # 1000000 ?.. boat name is SPLASH smile.gif

[ 09-09-2005, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[Noah]

Sure is a big boat...

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/3/0/6/4/1306445_13.jpg http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/3/0/6/4/1306445_2.jpg

Looks like a big project. If the hull is ok, then you are much of the way there.

[Norske3]

Divide up into Condominiums. smile.gif

[Gary E]

WoW !!!
Wonder if it still has the 3 Packard Merlins???

do you own an oil well?

Thad, 40 yrs ago there was a sight seeing boat running out of Atlantic City Ocean City area, I think that was it's name. If it was, there should be evedence of a lot of chairs bolted on the front deck..

Wonder if that broker would know.

[ 09-09-2005, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[WindHawk]

Some guys end up putting close to $30,000 a foot to restore a 30 foot sailboat. Granted the price does come down with quantity, but say you got it for $10,000 a foot, you're still looking at $940,000, and probably much, much more.

Even if you could do all of the work yourself, the mechanicals are going to kill you. I have never priced twin 600 h.p. diesels, but I dare say they aren't cheap. Although again, you'll likely get a quantity discount. The fuel tanks alone will set you back a small fortune. Paint, varnish, nails & screws... You're right, boats are cheap as long as you spread out the payments, and Never Ever Total Them UP...

I can get you a sail away 50 foot wooden schooner for $80,000 Canadian! Think about it.

[wyndham]

You gotta love this guy. he's new to boating and he buys a 94 footer sight unseen. Who doesn't want to just sit with this dude and swill a few cold ones?
I'm tempted to drive to Jersy just to see the damn thing!
3 Packard Merlins!?!? Thats about a million gallons an hour WOT.

[Gary E]

Originally posted by WindHawk:
I can get you a sail away 50 foot wooden schooner for $80,000 Canadian! Think about it. Yeah maybe but it wont go 40 knots ... smile.gif

There is no replacement for displacement.. smile.gif

If you want to cruise that boat at a modest speed and reasonable cost, I have seen a pair of Detroit 6-71's do the job..

[ 09-09-2005, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[WoodenBNut]

Man!! That is a big hunk of boat!!! Hum, it sure has the lines of maybe a converted WW-II PT boat. I think Trumpy and Huckins, among other builders built PT boats in the WW-II era.
I know this is not in the New Jersey area, but check out www.blakeboatworks.com. (http://www.blakeboatworks.com.) They have a very impressive restoration of a 56 year old wooden Huckins (I think in the 60 ft range or so).
It was originally powered by 3 Diesel engines. They made an impressive power plant conversion to 2 new diesels and 2 attached jet drives. They appear to do outstanding work. They are near Harkers Island, NC. Very impressive web site and story. Lot's of photos of the rebuild. I would think tons of $$$$ too.

[Noah]

"This 94 footer is a Air Sea Rescue boat but the information on the make is not known. She is one of two built and was built in Wilmington, DE. Originall power was three Packard Gas motors. She has a pretty solid hull with very little rot and does not need much more then prep and paint. It has three shaft set-ups and three 6V53N Detroits and two of them look pretty good, needing only minor work to be fired the third needs alot of work and has no V drive unit. Fuel tanks are of a reinforced rubber/plastic material and are in great shape with approx. 3000 galons. The salon area was built with home materials latter in its life and is in poor condition. The starboard side of the cabin in the head area has a large 3' X 8' hole from rot but it is only the plywood cabin. And the other area of rot is where the toe rail area is, but not any in the hull itself. She is a well built solid boat that would make a nice yacht if redone."

[Scott Rosen]

Wow! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Talk about learning how to swim by jumping in the deep end . . .

[Gary E]

Originally posted by New Buccaneer:
Hi All,

I have just bought a 1951, 94 ft. wooden boat, said to be Trumpy (not confirm). She need restoration. She is drydocked at Greenwich, 08323 NJ. I am looking for good marine carpenter within this area to refurbish the bottom/hull. The survey says the bottom/hull sound well. Any info/advice will be highly appreciated.

ThanksWoW what a boat from the pic's we see so far...

In my opinion you are not likely to find someone on this forum to actuall do the work. If I were looking for someone, I would place an ad in the local newspaper, The Atlantic City Press, here is it's home page...
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/

There is one other direction I could recomend but I think it best for you to contact me in a PM...

[Norske3]

Some figure gallons per hour...ha...I would figure barrels per hour!. :D ...tie it up to a cheap old rotten wharf somewhere near Atlantic City smile.gif and open up a restaurant.

[Hwyl]

I searched the coast guard site http://www.st.nmfs.gov/st1/CoastGuard/VesselByName.html for "New Buccaneer" but only came up with a 74 Aluminium boat Galveston

[Mike Vogdes]

Thad,

The owner of Greenwich boat works is a fella named Hitch and he does have quite a few old wooden boats in his yard, lots of old head boats and commercial fishing boats, most of them firewood. I think he told me the boat in question is a Wheeler. You will like poking around this yard, last time I was there he had a nice old Elco he was trying to renovate for someone.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I hope you sell cocaine for a living. It's the only way you could afford to fix that boat. :eek:

[Bob Cleek]

http://yachtbroker.escapeartist.com/images/378.jpg

It appears to be an ASR for sure. Here's a picture of one in better shape. I've been acquainted with a couple of them. Several were donated to the Sea Scouts when used up. As I recall, they are cross planked on the bottom and plywood or cold molded above the chine. They were very fast in their original configuration, for obviousl reasons, but really inhaled av-gas. Cost was no object to the Army. That is the other problem... the Army Air Force and later the Air Force operated them, not the Navy. The difference in attitudes showed in the ASR's I've seen. Then, too, all of them I ever saw were bastardized with ugly plywood superstructures and Home Depot quality materials. They were really planing hulls, I believe. We all know what a planing hull is like when it's not planing... right? BUT, to get them up on a plane, you need those Merlins, or Packards or whatever they used originally, and a huge fuel supply. A lot ended up as houseboat hulls. If somebody bought this one, P.T. Barnum was right!

[New Buccaneer]

Thanks to ALL! You have awaken up!
1. That is her. And the description posted by Noah is what I know.
2. She was sold from Greenwhich Boatworks, 1 Pier Rd, Greenwhich (where she stil is) to Mr. Greg Thompson, Atlantic Yacht Sales Inc., who later sold her to me. At the Bill of Sale of Greenwich Boatworks is written "Make -Trumpy". The answer of Mr. Marvin Hitchner (the Owner of Greenwich Boatworks) is that she was only converted by Trumpy.
3. I additioanally paid for a survey but ufortunately I got not a good profecional and the survey doesn't says much more but says that the hull/bottom indeed looks!! sound except some small area at the stern starboard bottom.
4. As I know, she doesn't have a title and HIN. I don't know why. Further more, I do not yet have a title too, even a Bill of Sale, never the less I paid one month before, because of (I think) some dispute between Greenwhich Boatworks and Greg.

What else? Greenwich Boatworks refuses to undertake refurbishment and further more ask me for (my opinion) too much for storage (you saw the picture where she is) as from September 1st, I am the owner (as per the Purchasing Agreement).
I do not sale cocain. I sale staeel pipes to the oil companies at Nigeria. I know it is capital investment and unpredictable project but would like to try.
I already said, I am adventurer and crazy!

[Bob Cleek]

web page (http://www.419eater.com/)

Scroll down to the bottom of the page and check out the webmaster's handle....

[ 09-10-2005, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: Bob Cleek ]

[Ruaridh]

Heh heh Bob.....I've spent many an amused hour reading that site in the past!!
I was just about to put up a post saying this still didn't add up for me...but maybe I'll leave it and just watch how it progresses. These guys are certainly getting more sophisticated, I was baiting one just recently who was going to send me a "cashier's cheque" and didn't even want to know my bank details or anything. I got fed up and flamed them before I found out what the rub was.
Anyway that aside the subject matter surrounding the boat is quite fascinating. These things must have used A LOT of fuel!!! Did they eventually evolve into gas turbines in the modern era? I'm guessing the army / navy etc. still has some kind of similar large planing vessel.
Once I delivered a yacht from Annapolis boat show back down the intra-coastal, and when I came in through Norfolk, VA. I saw some hulls similar to these lying seemingly neglected in the naval yards. They were similar size and I'm sure they were wood - they were painted gray and some had no superstructure at all, they looked as if the hulls had been built but then had never been needed, so were still lying surplus!
Probably someone else on here knows the real story with them.
Anyway, have fun! For me, to buy a thing like this sight unseen, be liable for yard costs, have no title to it, and know that there's a dispute with the yard/previous owner, is a little more then "an adventurer and crazy". It's just plain unbelievable. I for one "have woken up", but if it's OK I'll just go back to sleep again!!! :D

[Bob Adams]

I think what you probably saw in Norfolk were PTF "Nastys" that were indeed built buy Trumpy in the 1960's. They were powered by three 3,100 hp Paxman diesels and carried 6,000 gallons of fuel. Several are being offed for sale, sans engines, in the Boats & Harbors publication.

[ 09-10-2005, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Bob Adams ]

[Paul Scheuer]

Wasn't there a guy on here about two years ago that has an air-sea rescue boat shipped from the NW to the NE ? He seemed to have a serious plan to live aboard and convert it to a yacht. The last I remember, he had it on the ground and had questions about how much of a foundation he needed to put under it. I think he had pics, and a link to his website. Could this be the same boat ?

[Bob Cleek]

ASR's, IIRC, were rendered obsolete by improved helo capabilities. They weren't used for any long distance work, so the fuel costs weren't a factor. They were used for short distance sprints. They'd have one on standby wherever they would have prop planes taking off from land over water. If the plane crapped out and the pilot had to ditch, the ASR would beat feet out to try and pick up the pilot. Some were given to the Sea Scouts and I know of one that apparently was converted to a practice torpedo retriever. They cut out the whole transom to the waterline and then planked it up with a ramp and a crane on it. They'd go get the torp and winch it up the ramp and reuse them.

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Paul Scheuer:
Wasn't there a guy on here about two years ago that has an air-sea rescue boat shipped from the NW to the NE ? He seemed to have a serious plan to live aboard and convert it to a yacht. The last I remember, he had it on the ground and had questions about how much of a foundation he needed to put under it. I think he had pics, and a link to his website. Could this be the same boat ?Not the same boat...

The one you are thinking of was I think a Torpedo Recovery boat about 72ft long with twin 12-71 Detroits... he moved it to Boston area as I recall.

http://www.judyandvin.com/boat.html

Wonder how he is doing...

[paladin]

Yeah...but as a former Merlin owner.....Ya gotta figger THREE of the suckers is gonna make a poor man outta some dude pumpung 150-175 gallons an HOUR through those things.....and if the gas duzzint gitcha the uninhibited ethylene glycol will......steady state power izz about 1200 each and 1600 each at war emergency......

[ 09-10-2005, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: paladin ]

[Gary E]

The Merlins are gone... It has three 6-53 Detroits

Much easier on the wallet... smile.gif

[paladin]

You izz still talking better than 40 gallons an hour which is gonna bend a $150 bill....

[Norske3]

4o gallons...I was close saying barrels per hour...55 gal drum. :D

[formerlyknownasprince]

I'da thought under 20 gallons per hour. Isn't it about 1 gallon per hour per pot for a 53 Detroit? Come to think of it, I get way better than that out of my 4-53s, not that I measure it that way.

Ian

[Gary E]

What is a "pot" ?

I imagine a modern 6-53 if setup for 300HP, I doubt one is, could burn 15 gal/hr at wide open... but I wonder what HP this one has.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

This boat, from earlier study of the yachtworld posting, has two engines sort of running, and one not running. No interior, and half a superstructure that has some rot. Yoicks. :eek:

[Dave Fleming]

My buddy Tugboat Dave, had a B-i-L who had one of those ***things***in the PacNoWest.
He used it for Salmon Trolling out of Straits of Juan de Fuca!

Thankfully Jan, Dave's sister, his wife finally divorced him before he killed them both!

Can you imagine trolling with such a vessel! :rolleyes:

Sorry I cannot recall what it was powered with at that time.

[New Buccaneer]

GaryE,
What is your PM and how to reply you there?
The engines are 6V53N and as per the DD brokers they are 210HP@2800rev/min.
Thanks
Iliya

[New Buccaneer]

Bob Cleek,
I opened the web page you recomended me but did not find out anything concerning boats.
Or may be I misunderstood something?
Thanks

[New Buccaneer]

Peter Malcolm is right.

Thanks

[Bob Adams]

Originally posted by Gary E:
What is a "pot" ?

I imagine a modern 6-53 if setup for 300HP, I doubt one is, could burn 15 gal/hr at wide open... but I wonder what HP this one has.Pot=jug, hole, you know...cylinder. I have a pair of 6 53s in my 37 footer,where they preform well At 215 hp naturally asperated, it seems to me this would be an underpowered boat unless she preformed well (and I doubt it) at trawler speeds.

[Hwyl]

Good luck with boat Iliya,

What are your plans, are you going to work on the boat in the USA or are you going to have it shipped to Africa or elswhere.

It's a huge project, but will be spectacular when you are finished. What do you hope to use it for? How far are you from Gambia? You could recreate Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness".

[Thad Van Gilder]

OK,
I just left the yard an hour ago.

Here's what I found.

She is clearly double planked above the chine. That looks to be ok.

ice damage at the water line from the transom (but not on the transom) leading forward about 12 feet. no other noticable ice damage.

The bottom appears superficially to be clinker planked, however the laps face up and out rather than down and in. It could be double planked as well, but I couldn't tell without looking closer.

Major (I mean the worst I have ever seen!) worm damage on the bottom planks, both port and starboard, from a foot below the waterline to the rabbet. The keel has some worm damage, as well.

The fasteners appear rough and most bungs are missing.

according to locals, the boat has been there at least since the 70's when one gentleman played on it in elementary school.

He says that the two wing engines are rolls royces and the centline has been replaced with some sort of diesel.

The shafts come through what appears to be a hollow cast bronze skeg. the skegs (one on each shaft) are about 4 feet long, 30 inches deep, and are topped off with a bonze plate that is bolted to the hull heavily. the plate is about 3 by 3 feet.

the bystanders claim to have been on the boat and the interior is rotted out. probably from a deck leak. from the ground, the superstructure is clearly in very poor to completely shot condition.

The boat is in the back 40 of a boat yard that contains two 80 foot delaware bay schooners, cutt down and no longer working, and dozens off smaller wood work boats.

The New buccaneer looks restorable, but having not given her a full survey, I'd say she minimally needs all new bottom planks, parts of the deadwood replaced and a new superstructure and interior.

The shape is still good, so the frames couldn't be too bad.

Your welcome.
-Thad

[ 09-11-2005, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Thad Van Gilder ]

[Thad Van Gilder]

Having read that a surveyor said the bottom is solid, and I do survey wood boats, I'd have to say your surveyor wasn't sure which end of the boat was pointed.

That is one rough bottom!!!! And it seems to be fastened with # 10's.

She is really lightly built.

Oh yeah, if they were indeed 6-53's in there (may be-I didn't look) That is impressive, cause they were attached to some fairly big props. I didn't measure, but they looked to be in the 30 inch area. There must be some serious gearing down in the tranny's!

-Thad

PS. no name on the transom.

[ 09-12-2005, 07:06 AM: Message edited by: Thad Van Gilder ]

[pipefitter]

how is lliya pronounced?

[Norske3]

Well wormed!...this boat will need pilings under to keep "afloat".

:D :D

[ 09-12-2005, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

[Thad Van Gilder]

She already is supported by pilings! all the boats are! No jackstands there!

-Thad

[New Buccaneer]

Thad,
What is that " fastened with #10 "?

Iliya
(Ilia)

[Norske3]

A very small diameter screw considering the very large size of the boat.

[ 09-12-2005, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

[Gary E]

Nobody in Joisey uses jackstands unless it's to prop up tall skinny little sailboatz... :D :D

[TimothyB]

Hey!

http://home.comcast.net/~captfull/index.html

If you can get these guys to do a survey and provide you a builder's recommendation list you will be well ahead of the game. Capt. Paul Haley is a very good man, and will give you personal recommendations, and knows the industry. He can help you with your entire project, and will certainly know what yard to bring her to and how to handle it. Hiring these guys to do your survey will guarantee that you know exactly what to do with her to get her shipshape.

You can go further with them and hire them to oversee the entire project for you.

They charge for transportation and housing, but that is standard and Capt. Haley will NOT take advantage of you.

Good luck to you!!

[ 09-12-2005, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: TimothyB ]

[Thad Van Gilder]

you know, the boat could just be put on a barge and towed to Afica...

-Thad

[Dan McCosh]

The boat looks kind of familiar, mainly because it strongly resembles a boat owned by a friend for about 15 years. This was based on a hull originally built as a navy patrol boat. It was about 70 ft. on deck, with topsides diagonally planked of two layers of 1/2 ins. mahogany. The original power was twin Allison V-12s, later converted to two 6-71 Detroit Diesels. An interior and superstructure had been added in the 1950s, later rennovated. It made a fairly nice large cruiser. The power was not capable of planing the hull, which made it quite slow. The hull was not particularly good below planing speeds. These hulls are still around, some with better power some unpowered. The main problem is the lack of any market for such conversions. The boat I speak of was eventually donated to charity.

[Gary E]

eventually donated to charity That is the problem with to many items...

Long ago you used to be able to get a drunks signature on a deed to transfer a slum house to his name and out of yours.. they sign anything for bottle of hootch..

In todays market try unloading a "Time Share" vacation place... churches dont even want them for a raffle

[ 09-12-2005, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[Dale R. Hamilton]

I think Thad's report would be enough to discourage the stoutest of hearts. Needing a new bottom on a 94 footer-geez. And then the guy is having trouble getting a title for the boat. If he is going to keep it, I hope the purchase price really low. So how about it NB- have you come to any decisions yet?

[Thad Van Gilder]

The locals claim that the boat was sold for $2,500. I cannot confirm or deny this.

-Thad

[mdevour]

So, just reading the comments to this thread, it looks like Buccaneer needs at least a couple of years and a couple of million dollars (US) to get his boat rebuilt and ready for the water.

Then he'll probably need at least a small professional crew to operate and maintain it. Add all the other costs -- fuel, mooring, etc. -- and he'd need, what? Another couple hundred grand per year to keep it?

If he's capable of that, I imagine he'll be able to clear up any minor issues regarding survey and title, and he'll be able to find the kind of professionals he will need to do the work for him.

When you're done, Buccaneer, you'll have a vessel to rival the presidential or royal yachts of many third world countries! :D

I hope you can do it, sir! It sounds like a great accomplishment if you have the resources to manage it!

Be well,

Mike D.

[Norske3]

the seller shouda paid buyer $2500 to take it away.$2500 for a pile of plywood in diferrent stages of decay.

[ 09-12-2005, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

[Gary E]

I am guessing at the time, but it seems that in the late 70's or early 80's some one really fixed up one of those old sail draggers that had been converted to power, it was a real nice job when finished, and best I remember the owner took it to Fla and then the islands..so it can be done, just takes money and time.

[New Buccaneer]

Dale R,
Mike D,

I can not afford couple of Millions but now I am looking for a good surveyer. As I mentioned before I was already duped by one "surveyer". Then I will think what to do and how to get my title. I will not give up. At least for now.

Thanks

[Bob Cleek]

Bucko... if you are at all for real... give it up. There is absolutely no sense in trying to restore this boat. Even if it were restored, it would never justify the expense to do so. It is a pile of crap and a waste of your time. Nobody in their right mind is going to survey it and nobody's going to work on it.

If, on the other hand, this is just another troll rising from the bilge... quit wasting everybody else's time. Please. You want honest advice? Walk away from this boat.

[ 09-12-2005, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Bob Cleek ]

[Lucky Luke]

Everyone has the right to choose the one he wants...

http://www.supertoinette.com/photo/f/f_citron.jpg

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ 09-13-2005, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: Lucky Luke ]

[Bob Cleek]

Then they ought to quit asking our advice on which one to pick!

[Norske3]

A first class troll of the highest order... ...surprise to see there are still a few BIG ply dinasaurs still lying around.

[ 09-13-2005, 03:56 AM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

[New Buccaneer]

Bob Cleek,
May be I will follow your honest advice. Obviously I am not only adventurer and crazy but uncompetent too. Most probably will have to forget for whatever I spent up till now and quit the project. Will let you know in 3-4 days. But, by the way, from educational point of view, please " what a planning hull is like when it's not planning"? Is it so bad? Not stable? Or simply low efficiency?

Thanks

[outofthenorm]

New Bucaneer, I agree that this vessel is too far gone to bother with. When it's dead, it's dead. If you're serious about owning a big wooden boat and have serious money to spend, now and in the future, buy this one, or one like it -

Lion's Whelp (http://www.lionswhelp.com)

Otherwise, drop it and move on is the best advise you're going to get..

- Norm

[outofthenorm]

Originally posted by New Buccaneer:
Hi All,

I have just bought a 1951, 94 ft. wooden boat, said to be Trumpy (not confirm). She need restoration. She is drydocked at Greenwich, 08323 NJ. I am looking for good marine carpenter within this area to refurbish the bottom/hull. The survey says the bottom/hull sound well. Any info/advice will be highly appreciated.

ThanksJust for the record Bob, NB didn't ask for advise about what boat to buy. He already "bought" his white elephant.
- Norm

[Dale R. Hamilton]

I'm afraid Bob characterized the issue nicely. Its too bad, but some projects are just not meant to be. You would be much better off buying something smaller and more manageable that is already floating and in good shape. I too dreamed of buying a working trawler and converting her to pleasure. But I came to my senses. I'm 63, soon to retire, certainly not wealthy. The project I dreamed of was "too big" for me at this stage of life. So, happily, we are going to buy new construction- a George Buehler 48' Diesel Duck. And I'll live long enough to enjoy the boat. Suggest you consider same NB.

[Alan D. Hyde]

However, if you can afford Lion's Whelp, she is a remarkable vessel, and--- as charter-worthy as she is--- your NET expenses might be lower running her, than would be the case for most vessels her size and age...

Fair winds, brother.

Alan

http://www.lionswhelp.com/images/stories/yachtpics/exterior_large2.jpg

[Norske3]

Designer...Eldridge- McInnis...right?...the guy who designed Donn's boat.

[Lucky Luke]

Originally posted by New Buccaneer:
But, by the way, from educational point of view, please " what a planning hull is like when it's not planning"? Is it so bad? Not stable? Or simply low efficiency?
Mainly low efficiency. Other thing is: not very good through waves: Slams badly. A boat like the ASR you were talking about was not designed for offshore cruising (although able to do some), but fast trips where comfort - and even safety - was of no concern.

Please, NB, quit the idea of buying this boat. You will however always be perfectely welcome for asking questions about, let's hope, a more "reasonable" buy...before spending on it, perhaps...

[New Buccaneer]

Thanks to ALL!!!

I will quit this project. I am really sorry for that but obviously I am not competent to execute it. I bought her. I liked the shape and thought that with something like $100'000 could refurbish her. Obviously not possible. I will lost this money but will survive. The experience is always expencive.
I am not a grandoman. I mean the size of the boat. But I thought that the minimum size of boat able to safely cross the Atlantic is something like 80' or over. I mean by her own power as the transport costs to bring here a boat by freighter are very high (like $66'000 for 37 footer)
I looked through the Lion's web page. I like her but can not afford. My budget for this my old old dream is something at the rate of $200'000. The bid there starts with $350'000.
But I will not quit my dream. I will continue looking for? May be something acceptable at West Africa zone or Europe.
Thank you once again for the advices and the time you all spent with me!

Iliya Todorov
Ex New Buccaneer

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

You can go a LOT smaller!

I have some friends in a ship delivery business who delivered four crewboats from New Orleans to Nigeria a few years ago. These were 65 footers, and they crossed the Atlantic under their own power quite happily.

That is about the lower size limit for ocean crossing in a pure power boat; sailing boats, which don't need to carry fuel for the trip, can be much smaller. The limit to size becomes the ability to carry water and food for the crew. 25ft sailing boats have been everywhere.

Are you planning to keep the boat in Nigeria?

[Mike Vogdes]

New Buccaneer,
Now that your the new owner I suppose your now resposible for the storage and ultimate disposal of this boat. Is this of any concern to you?

[Katherine]

Without a title, is he actually the owner? If he scraps her, can he recover some of his investment by selling her engines and any gear she has?

[Thad Van Gilder]

I don't think that would help.

When I looked at it, it didn't look like there was much to scrap. and it would take multiple dumpsters to haul away all that worm ridden wood!

-Thad

[Stargazer14]

"Bucko... if you are at all for real... give it up. There is absolutely no sense in trying to restore this boat. Even if it were restored, it would never justify the expense to do so. It is a pile of crap and a waste of your time. Nobody in their right mind is going to survey it and nobody's going to work on it."

Bob, I heard almost those exact words, from more than one person, at the marina where I rebuilt my boat for 3 years.
I didnt give up and have been enjoying MoNaH immensely this season.

...of course, it was 70 feet shorter and had only one engine with a tenth to power... :rolleyes:

[Dave Fleming]

Get a copy of the book " VOYAGING UNDER POWER "

By Robert P. Beebe

either first printing or later printing updated by Lishman.

This man did it and more than once in comfort.

[paladin]

Lliya.....for 200,000-250,000 you can build a new boat of maybe 50-55 feet, single diesel ready to run of very nice design by a competent architect in Thailand.......very basic electronics though.

[joejapan]

Mr. Todorov;

Have you looked at the boat search engine (http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/yw_advanced_search_form.jsp) for used boats?

You might find something, within your budget, that you want.

Even if you don't it is fun to play and dream.

[alienzdive]

I think that a project like this would be absolutely fantastic. If someone is prepared to put more money into the refurbishment than the finished re-sale value it would not be so silly if they were intending to keep the boat for them selves. A 90 foot power boat would be a project to be proud of, a real statement.

[Bob Cleek]

It would seem to me that if the seller cannot transfer clear title to the boat, you would have sound grounds to back out of the deal. If a seller does not hold title to a boat, they cannot sell it.

[New Buccaneer]

-Andrew- I know that. But they were brand new Kingfishers. And yes, I would keep her at Nigeria. I work here and will spend may be 10 more years here. And it is much more cheeper to keep her here than let's say USA or Europe.
-Mike- I concern. As from September 1st, I am the owner as per the Purchasing Agreement. I do not yet have title or even Bill of Sale. But the previous Owner and the yard Owner didn't clear even there relations yet. I am also waiting from the yard Owner his quotation for the storage from September 1st.
-Katherine-same as above. I don't know how it looks from legal point of view. I have the Purchase Agreement signed and the money paid. But no title or any other Proof of Ownership.
-joejapan-Yes, i look at this page but think the best is www.boats.com (http://www.boats.com)
-paladin- I was not going to use the boat for charter or any other business (re-selling her). I wanted to use her for my own pleasure with friends.

[John B]

priceless.

[New Buccaneer]

What is "priceless" JohnB?

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by Dave Fleming:
Get a copy of the book " VOYAGING UNDER POWER "

By Robert P. Beebe

either first printing or later printing updated by Lishman.

This man did it and more than once in comfort.I nearly killed myself in one of his boats. Godawful things.

[Dave Fleming]

OK Hwyl, don't leave us hanging, tell us about it.

If you please?

[Puka]

If I was asked to rate the probability of this happening on this forum, I would have said "negligible".
Street smart Nigerians have caught several NZer's with a lure of fortunes;it is "beleive it or not" stuff that a Nigerian would get "caught" buying a
hulk of the magnitude of New Buccaneer.
My sympathy Lliya,I hope this is not Yin Yang of your fellow countrymen kicking in.

It is amazing what dreaming can do to to ones judgement.(And a look from SWIMBO)

[Gary E]

This may be more to your liking...

At least it runs and floats...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4578503533&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

[Dave Fleming]

nearly killed myself in one of his boats. Godawful things. Hwyl, still waitin' patiently for an explanation of that comment.

:rolleyes:

[sdowney717]

At 10 gallons per mile, it is going to do a lot of floating.

[stueddy]

Gentlemen, I have reliable information, from the owner of the marina where this 94' USAF Crash Boat still resides, that Mr. NB is pulling a hoax. The owner tells me via a direct phone conversation, that this 'sale' never took place.
Per a couple of the posts, yes it is one of two experimental 94 footers built, but an order never was placed. This boat, by info. I've gained from others who have personally inspected it as well, is one of the two, but is was built in Detroit in conjuction with the Eddy Shipbuilding Co., and the Detroit Boat Basin. My father, who worked for his father in the ESC. was the drafting engineer, according to blueprints our family owns. The other boat was built in California by the Stockton Bros.
Hope this might clear up a bit of the information above, for those of you who see this.

[Ethan]

So.....is the boat still for sale?

[peter radclyffe]

does anyone know who built the 72 footers which may have had 3 packards or merlins

[Vince Brennan]

Just astounding how some 'objects' keep bobbing up, innit?

Next, Anne Marie....

[peter radclyffe]

i used to live on one, but i dont think its name ,helmsman was original

[stueddy]

Ethan, I would say yes, it's still for sale per the marina owner. He believes that it is salvagable- only needs someone with some deeper pockets than most. It currently sits at the Greenwich Boat Works in Greenwich, NJ.

[yzer]

The other boat was built in California by the Stockton Bros.
Hope this might clear up a bit of the information above, for those of you who see this.
Would that be the Stephens Brothers of Stockton, CA?

[stueddy]

Oops! Yes, Yzer, that is correct. I flip-flopped that one pretty bad! Being in CA., do you have any more info. on that boat? Other than some photos, I have not gathered,nor found, much data on it.

[Hwyl]

Hwyl, still waitin' patiently for an explanation of that comment.

:rolleyes:
Sorry I never fulfilled your wish Dave

[yzer]

Oops! Yes, Yzer, that is correct. I flip-flopped that one pretty bad! Being in CA., do you have any more info. on that boat? Other than some photos, I have not gathered,nor found, much data on it.I don't know that much about these crash boats. An AVR (63') in good original shape was kept at our marina until 2006 when it was sold and moved up to British Columbia for the new owner. This boat was originally powered by 1000HP+ engines. Sea Scouts still keeps an ASR (85') at the Berkeley marina and there are a few more ARs scattered about SF Bay and the California Delta including a converted 104'. I haven't heard of a 94' AR that came out of the Stephens yard, but I'm not that expert on Stephens history.

The Stephens archive is now part of the Haggin Museum.
http://www.hagginmuseum.org/stephens/

From the database at the link above Stephens Bros. built hull #920 on 9/1/54 for the USN. It was a 94' Air Rescue Boat with no name.

[stueddy]

That's about all I've been able to find, as well. I know of a gentleman that's been out there to the museum, but when we talked it wasn't clear if he found more info on that particular boat or not. As in the photo I uploaded above, the USAF numbered it R-21-1252.

[SCPO (ret)]

This boat is actually one of two prototype U.S. Air Force Air Rescue Boats (ARB) built in 1952. One was built by Stephens Brothers and the other by Detroit Basin, Inc. The boat is a John Hacker design (original drawings of this design are available in the John Hacker Collection of the Mariners Museum in Newport News, VA). Yours is most likely the boat built by Detroit Basin and is the ex-USAF R-21-1251.
The prototypes were built to test the design as a replacement for the 85' ARBs, however theree were a number of engineering issues. The U.S. Navy managed all small boat testing and had the boats built for the Air Force. The Air Force required the use of USAF equipment (which was not suitable for the marine environment) and the same engines that were used in the 63' and 85' ARBs (which were becoming hard to maintain). There were problems with the propulsion and with corrosion. Also, the use of helicopters in air rescue was becoming prominent at the time, all of which lead to the discontinuation of the project. No other boats were built and the two prototypes were turned over to the Navy.
I have copies of the USAF Marine Allowance Checklist and Operating Manual for this boat which I can provide to you electronically if you are interested.
R/
Matt Prager, SCPO USN (ret)

[seo]

In the '80's I worked for a company that operated boats for the Navy. My primary occupation was running a Swift Boat out of Key West, and sometimes a landing craft. They also had the contract to operate torpedo retrievers out of a navy base at maybe Goat Island (Newport, RI). At one point they offered me the job of running the boat. It was 72 feet long with the machinery out of a Swift (12-71NA 4-valve GM Detroits). Made about 18 kt. Retrieving a torpedo is an interesting boat-handling challenge, and I wanted the job, but then the company lost the contract.
Fuel consumption on a Swift Boat was around 65 gph at 21 kt.
Right now there are a lot of turbo-charged 12 & 16 cyl 92 series Detroits for sale. They're pretty good engines, and I imagine that a pair of 16's at 1,000 hp each would push this 94' ASR pretty good. Three 8-92's might be all right. The reason for going to a pair is that they're more efficient, and also a lot of these are coming out of big yachts as pairs, so that might be the best way to buy them.
I've had some experience with big fast wooden yachts, and their bottoms take a tremendous slamming/pounding. When operating on a plane in a seaway the engines and fuel tanks generate a lot of inertia loads.
If I wanted a boat like this I'd buy a surplus oilfield crewboat. They're readily available, pretty cheap, and if their aluminum hulls are in good shape, they're quite durable and easy to repair. Their design was based on military planing boats like the ASR, and then a few years later they were modified back to military service as Swift Boats. Swift, the company, was almost exclusively in the crewboat business when they got the navy job...

[Thad Van Gilder]

This boat was still sitting out there last spring... Its done. Time for retirement!!!!

[Mike DeHart]

I just looked it over again last weekend , and I have spelunked it thoroughly in the past. The bottom looks to be double planked with a rubbery glue between layers. I can confirm that there are the remnants of military markings on the bow and they are still legible though painted over:

USAF
R-21-1251

The superstructure is collapsing in on itself on the stbd side. The gunwhales are turning to compost. Some of the bottom planks look like they are dropping out near the back of the keel. I don't think I would climb on board anymore. Cool boat for sure, but way out of my price range. Anything can be fixed, but this one will likely never be. I have dreamed of running her wide open across the south Pacific with someone else paying for the fuel.

[stueddy]

A new update / correction for Mr. Buccaneer,
It may be that Mr. B. was somewhat on the up&up, but either mis-lead or confused by someone. According to Navsource.org, an on-line Navel archive, there was a 94' PT-811, reclassified as aFast Patrol Craft, PTF-2, 21 December 1962. This was an ALUMINUM, not wooden, like the experimentals talked most about in this thread. This aluminum 94' was made by John Trumpy and Sons, Annapolis, MD, and completed 6 March 1951. This would explain his initial opening line. The Trumpy make was sunk as a target in August 1965 off the Hawaiian Islands, according to Navsource, so clearly NOT our R-21-1251 sitting at Greenwich.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/05811.htm