Casting Bronze

[Waterrat]

Have any of you experimented with casting bronze? How is it done? What have you made? What tools do you need? How has it held up? I would love to see pictures. I am just curious and assume others are to. Thanks Justin

[Waterrat]

I found this
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/brasscasting02.html

And Silcon bronze http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/Metals.php

[Jim Ledger]

I fooled around with it some...

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?88357-Casting-catboat-rudder-hardware&highlight=

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?79398-Sam-Johnson-Bronze-Casting-Class&highlight=

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?82726-Crucible-furnace-for-melting-bronze.&highlight=

[Jay Greer]

I make my own patterns. But, I entrust them to my foundry man, Pete Langley at Port Townsend Foundry.
Jay

[Bob Cleek]

Jay's right. Foundry is a very complex craft and the proper equipment requires a huge investment of money. Home bronze casting can be done if you are willing to tackle the steep learning curve as Jim Ledger has done, but if you aren't ready to take on a craft as complex as wooden boat building itself, make your own patterns (that requires a lot of study in itself if you are doing anything complex) and send them out to a pro who knows what they are doing.

[Thad Van Gilder]

I have two furnaces. a big propane fired Johnson, that I bought when they closed the local junior high, and a small coal fired homemade one. The big one melts about 30 pounds of bronze, and the smaller one about 10.

I cast in petrobond oil bonded sand, which is about $60 for a 5 gallon bucket. I am planing to trade sailig lessons for lost wax lessons this spring, but we will see how that works out.

It costs a fair amount to get the casting rig together. if you think you want to just cast the hardware for boat, im not sure its worth it. If you want to cast a bunch of stuff, it may work for you.

and oh yes, the patterns take quite a while to make and, until you understand how they work, you may not have any luck making even just the patterns.

[SMARTINSEN]

Where is Mr. Sibley these days?

[David Cockey]

Tillers International (south of Kalamazoo, Michigan) has a weekend class in Small Foundary Work and Pattern Making. We took it several years ago, learned a lot and had fun. Emphasis was on making a small furnace, making sand molds and casting. Students cast aluminum while the instructors demonstrated brass or bronze. This year's class is May 21-22. Cost is $185 for two days including lunches, and they have accomodations (extra cost) on site. Even if you are planning to heave someone else do the casting it is still worthwhile.
Tillers International website: http://www.tillersinternational.org/
Small Foundary Work and Pattern Making Class: http://www.tillersinternational.org/blacksmithing/classes_323_smallfoundryworkandpatternmaking.html

[David Cockey]

Sam Johnson teaches a five day class at WoodenBoat School on Bronze Casting for Boatbuilders. It's scheduled for July 3 - 9 this year, tuition is $700 and materials are $262.50.
Bronze Casting for Boatbuilders: http://www.thewoodenboatschool.com/related-crafts/bronze-casting.php
WoodenBoat School: http://www.thewoodenboatschool.com/

Sam also usually demonstrates bronze casting at the WoodenBoat Show but I don't know if he will be there this year.

[David Cockey]

Sam Johnson has published a short monograph "Bronze Casting for the Boatbuilder" which he has sold at his demonstrations. I don't know where a copy might be available. Sam is currently executive director of the Columbia River Maritime Museum.

[Thad Van Gilder]

That tillers international stuff looks awesome... too bad it looks to be mainly in Michigan!!!!

[John Meachen]

It looks pretty but one of our local boatbuilders used to state in his literature that no castings were used in his boats-fabricated stainless was.Probably because of bad experiences.If you really want to use castings,buy from a professional.

[Waterrat]

Ok have some one else do it unless you are really going to get into it. That said where are the pictures from those of you who have gone through this process. Preferably of stuff on your pretty boat and if your wife or girlfriend is pretty feel free to have her in the picture also.|;)

[James McMullen]

Casting is just another piece of the whole puzzle. I don't hire anything out to someone else that I might enjoy trying myself. Of course it's hard and has a learning curve and is tricky and expensive to get it right. That's what makes it worth doing. Buckets of glowing, molten metal that is so hot that even a moderate splash could actually kill you is all part of the kick.

Pintles and gudgeons and their patterns:

http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/6037/2786632000088484686S600x600Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2786632000088484686YYMRCy)

Machining the tapered pin on a pintle casting:

http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/21373/2649308710088484686S600x600Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2649308710088484686xsSLfv)

Chocks, pintles, gudgeons, cleat, universal tiller joint, all home-made.

http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/46887/2255090520088484686S600x600Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2255090520088484686iJrzuT)

Pouring a mold for a builder's plate:

http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/47459/2510618880088484686S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2510618880088484686EflLZd)

rough casting just broken out and still glowing hot:

http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/5352/2861738460088484686S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2861738460088484686HNtnxS)

And the final product with flash and sprues cut off and polished up--mounted right there under the edge of the sternsheets:

http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/42102/2286965460088484686S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2286965460088484686aOILgC)

[jerry bark]

Tillers International website: http://www.tillersinternational.org/


David,

thanks for that link. tillers is just 30 minutes from my house and I never knew it was there. I do not care aobut the foundry stuff, but I will definitely be taking one or more of the blacksmithing classes this winter/spring. they have lots of other classes that i might go to as well: making spokeshaves, building a shaving horse, etc.

Cheers
jerry

[Waterrat]

James that is very cool. I love your craftsmanship. What kind of finish did you use for all of your bright work?

David I agree with Jerry about the tiller international being very cool. It is not as close to me as Jerry but I may have to check that place out. Maybe I should get some oxen and start cutting and bailing my hay with oxen. I have always thought that would be cool. More work then I am probably willing to invest but it might be fun to learn how.

[paladin]

Someone mentioned Peter Sibley early on. Peter does his own work and is a valuable resource. His computer is down at the moment and he lives in the sticks, so post a message and wait for the reply, he goes to town periodically and uses the machine there.

[stewart711]

Jim

Going to have to upgrade you to Mr Six Star. That flask alone, but tell me did you burn it during the pour? First class work.

Stewart

[James McMullen]

Water rat, that boat, a copy of the tender for the 1898 America's Cup defender was all uber-traditional spar varnish. I think it was Interlux.

stewart711, by "Jim" did you mean me? Yes, that flask has caught fire more than once in assorted pourings. Flasks are expendable. I make up new ones as needed from old pallet wood. . . .as long as it is dry wood, of course! Wetness could lead to a steam explosion, with possibly disastrous results. The molten bronze is so very hot that it will even catch the oil binder to the olivine sand on fire. When you first break the part out of the mold. . .

http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/47700/2110877270088484686S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2110877270088484686LbCACa)

the sudden influx of fresh oxygen can cause it to burst into flames again.

http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/42813/2788096170088484686S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2788096170088484686sDFhMy)

[David Cockey]

David,

thanks for that link. tillers is just 30 minutes from my house and I never knew it was there. I do not care aobut the foundry stuff, but I will definitely be taking one or more of the blacksmithing classes this winter/spring. they have lots of other classes that i might go to as well: making spokeshaves, building a shaving horse, etc.

Cheers
jerry

The blacksmithing classes at Tillers are excellent. We took Blacksmithing I and Tim Carr was a great instructor. The exercises are well thought out and quickly build skill and confidence. The well equipped blacksmith shop has six coal forges and twelve anvils, and each student works at their own anvil. Once you know what you're doing you can rent a forge for $40/day. An oppportunity to forge hardware and fittings for a traditional boat.

[earlethomas]

Sam Johnson is the head of the Columbia River Maritime Museum in Astoria OR. He is also a small scale bronze caster and has a book. He leads a few workshops a year, possibly in Seattle at WBF and at WB School, maybe more. I met him at his demo at Mystic last summer, part of the WoodenBoat show. His approach is simplicity and he stresses low cost. Look here (http://70point8percent.blogspot.com/search?q=sam+johnson).

[jerry bark]

The blacksmithing classes at Tillers are excellent. We took Blacksmithing I and Tim Carr was a great instructor. The exercises are well thought out and quickly build skill and confidence. The well equipped blacksmith shop has six coal forges and twelve anvils, and each student works at their own anvil. Once you know what you're doing you can rent a forge for $40/day. An oppportunity to forge hardware and fittings for a traditional boat.



thanks for that reference David,

I am already signed up for april with my son and a friend of mine is going also. If I enjoy it I will probably take all of them in time. its close enough by that I could simply go when a weekend is free to make things as well.

Cheers
Jerry