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Ed Harrow
01-19-2011, 07:41 PM
I mentioned that I had this on my book pile back when Jack was asking about books. By Nathaniael Philbrick, it's pretty much exactly what one would expect from his hand. I wish The Hundred Years War measured up. It's a tough measure, a week or so compared to 100 years...

Anyway, but for the last chapter, when he jumps about a bit too much chronologically IMOO, an excellent read.

For those who are knowledgeable in these things - there is a statement about 'steel-tipped arrows' 1876, clearly steel was available, but I was very surprised to read that the Cheyenne and Sioux had steel-tipped arrows.

Phillip Allen
01-19-2011, 07:43 PM
I mentioned that I had this on my book pile back when Jack was asking about books. By Nathaniael Philbrick, it's pretty much exactly what one would expect from his hand. I wish The Hundred Years War measured up. It's a tough measure, a week or so compared to 100 years...

Anyway, but for the last chapter, when he jumps about a bit too much chronologically IMOO, an excellent read.

For those who are knowledgeable in these things - there is a statement about 'steel-tipped arrows' 1876, clearly steel was available, but I was very surprised to read that the Cheyenne and Sioux had steel-tipped arrows.

from wagon tires and other hardware

Ed Harrow
01-19-2011, 08:05 PM
That's all I could imagine; made from scrap, if you will, but there was no explanation. I sure wasn't thinking they were picking up finished arrowheads at FW Woolworth or the local Sears and Roebucks outlet ;). I guess I'll give the book a demerit for that.

Phillip Allen
01-19-2011, 08:10 PM
That's all I could imagine; made from scrap, if you will, but there was no explanation. I sure wasn't thinking they were picking up finished arrowheads at FW Woolworth or the local Sears and Roebucks outlet ;). I guess I'll give the book a demerit for that.

likely they were mostly iron too and not steel

bamamick
01-19-2011, 08:19 PM
I like Nat's books. And just think, at one time he was just another dinghy sailor :).

I have this book, as well.

Mickey Lake

paladin
01-19-2011, 11:19 PM
A steel tipped arrow fired from a bois d'arc bow would go completely thru a human bean at 30-40 yards, and bury up to the fletching in a buffalo. A Comanche warrior could fire a dozen arrows in the time a single shot rifle or pistol was reloaded.

Ed Harrow
01-19-2011, 11:42 PM
Chuck, these were self fabricated as Phillip suggests? I assume they were of the pattern of the typical chipped arrowhead?

Glen Longino
01-19-2011, 11:52 PM
likely they were mostly iron too and not steel

That's what I've heard.
Iron skillets were broken up with rocks, shaped and sharpened with files and whet stones the natives traded for.
If Sammy Colt had not come along, we might still be running from Comanches out here on the prairie.

Phillip Allen
01-20-2011, 12:29 AM
Soon after I got my corporal stripes and my very own tank to command, the brigade sent all the tank commanders out to Little Big Horn so we could walk the ground and take a look at what Custer had been facing.

My initial opinion, not much changed in the twenty years since then, was that Custer was an arrogant incompetent. If he'd had one Gatling and made use of the terrain the way his foe did, LBH would have gone completely the other way.

and he would have killed more "nits"

Glen Longino
01-20-2011, 02:20 AM
and he would have killed more "nits"

"nits"
That's the hell of it, IMO, the utter Inhumanity of the Indian Wars...on both sides.
Not unlike our modern wars!
Demonize the enemy and kill em without remorse.
Trouble is, all our enemies are so much like us that you'd think we would recognize ourselves in our gunsights sooner or later and turn around and shoot the bastids that sent us onto the battlefield in the first place.
Maybe someday!

Glen Longino
01-20-2011, 03:10 AM
Propagandizers( Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush) should be chained in somebody's front lawn in Dallas so all of us can drive by, stop our car, get out, and piss on them!

skuthorp
01-20-2011, 04:55 AM
A far better idea than jailing them Glen, ridicule and contempt is what they deserve, and BTW an extra place for our ex PM.

Paul Pless
01-20-2011, 06:51 AM
If he'd had one Gatling and made use of the terrain the way his foe did. . .Regarding the terrain question, ain't it true that Custer was fighting a forced withdrawal the entire time that Little Big Horn happened and that he never had the opportunity to pick his place to fight?

Ed Harrow
01-20-2011, 04:06 PM
Let's see, the two guys below him detested him. One guy, with the wind at his back took a defensive position and was driven out with something like losses around 50%. The other guy was in no hurry to meet Custer as agreed. So he split his command twice (and then a third or fourth time). The remaining question seems to be did Custer wait until the first guy got driven out so as to give Custer all the glory when he rode in. He attempted to snag the women and kids, but was driven back. The terrain approaching Custer's then position was such that he couldn't see the Indians approaching his position. Then, of course, his troops were using single-shot, trapdoor Springfields, while the Indians had Winchester and Henry repeaters. Custer elected not to bring a Gatling gun... The Springfields had a nasty habit of not extracting the shell when opened to reload...

Which brings up anther question - who made the decision to use those Springfields, which were in use at least thru the SA war - I have Uncle Dick's 45-70 trapdoor...

I think you'd enjoy the book, Paul.

paladin
01-20-2011, 04:20 PM
Actually, at the site where Custards group fell, shell casings from over 50 different weapons were recovered and there were some rather exotic weapons there for the day and age, including Yellow Hairs personal weapons.

purri
01-20-2011, 04:56 PM
I heard a tale of suicide pacts amongst the "bunkies" when they braves began "counting coup". just sayin'.

Ed Harrow
01-20-2011, 05:13 PM
shell casings from over 50 different weapons were recovered ...

Hey, come on Chuckie - why was the issue weapon the trapdoor Springfield?

Phillip Allen
01-20-2011, 05:53 PM
Hey, come on Chuckie - why was the issue weapon the trapdoor Springfield?
I think the soldiers had Springfields and hand guns...the victims of the assault had arms salvaged from many places