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ishmael
01-11-2011, 08:06 PM
The vast majority on the planet do in some form or another. I think most people have experiences that make them wonder, if not devout.

My current take is that there is a intelligence, a mind of some form unfathomable, that moves in the universe.

I think it very different than conventional images, but I have no doubt it's there. It's neither benevolent nor cruel, it just is. The human avatars, Jesus, the Buddha et al, recognized this and and said it's up to us to make this kind and honest. We must form this raw intelligence into a form that is recognizable as kindness.

We fall down, we sin, and let us pick ourselves up and make it better.

LeeG
01-11-2011, 08:07 PM
not really

Tom Montgomery
01-11-2011, 08:08 PM
I have no problem with people calling the unfathomable prime mover "God."

I have a problem with those who insist this is a personality. I also have a problem with the notion that there exists a vast supernatural realm that intermittently acts in the natural universe. This simply strikes me as superstition.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-11-2011, 08:15 PM
I was raised in a protestant household, my grandfather was a minister. As I've aged, I have gradually stepped back from belief in a "God". For the most part the human race has used "God" as an excuse to impress one point of view or governance on other people. This belief has also been used to excuse "sin" because apparently you can pay for that later, and still be forgiven and all that crap. The recent shooting in Arizona was a good example: People praying for the victims. Rather than having to actually effect a change in either gun control or political rhetoric, prayers are done in a quick minute, and that's good enough. I don't think it is. Faith in anything is about action, and believing in certain values is a living thing. Frankly, I think you die and thats it. This is the go round, so you better make it good, not only for yourself, but for everyone you contact. Do the best you can, give it your best shot. Be fair, be brave, be honest. Give, love, laugh, plant, harvest, cry, grieve, do it all. This is it.

Chris Coose
01-11-2011, 08:16 PM
Nope. It is OK with me to believe that this all came to this very moment by way of some elegant coincidences and it shall go on long after my pleasurable observance of the infinite.
Now, do you want to hear how I experience bliss?

bamamick
01-11-2011, 08:16 PM
Yes, I do. I believe in God. I also believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God and that he died for us, to enable us to be redeemed. I really do. And for those who are going to want me to give an explanation of why I believe that, my answer, in advance, is that I believe it because I want to believe it. No other explanation necessary (in my opinion).

And also, for the record, I absolutely respect the right of everyone else in this world to believe whatever they want to believe, or not believe, whichever the case. I realize that cultures clash, and that ideas and opinions can turn into fists and then guns and then bombs, etc., but I have been able to get along with people for 52 years, respecting the opinions of others and believing what I believe. As a matter of fact, my faith has gotten stronger the longer I have been around. I believe in a God of beauty and of peace and of love. Yes, I do believe.

Mickey Lake

thedutchtouch
01-11-2011, 08:23 PM
I was raised in a protestant household, my grandfather was a minister. As I've aged, I have gradually stepped back from belief in a "God". For the most part the human race has used "God" as an excuse to impress one point of view or governance on other people. This belief has also been used to excuse "sin" because apparently you can pay for that later, and still be forgiven and all that crap. The recent shooting in Arizona was a good example: People praying for the victims. Rather than having to actually effect a change in either gun control or political rhetoric, prayers are done in a quick minute, and that's good enough. I don't think it is. Faith in anything is about action, and believing in certain values is a living thing. Frankly, I think you die and thats it. This is the go round, so you better make it good, not only for yourself, but for everyone you contact. Do the best you can, give it your best shot. Be fair, be brave, be honest. Give, love, laugh, plant, harvest, cry, grieve, do it all. This is it.
same here, raised in a christian reformed turned episcopal household, and now describe myself as agnostic. religion/god is a manmade tool used by the powerful/educated to control the masses, or excuse behaviors.

Breakaway
01-11-2011, 08:24 PM
Yes, I do.

Kevin

McMike
01-11-2011, 08:30 PM
Not really but I do believe in a higher collective power, I don't believe in a judge.

ishmael
01-11-2011, 08:44 PM
My belief in God is non-sequiter. Meaning it doesn't fit comfortably.




I watched, recently, "Contact", a film based on Carl Sagan's writings. In it a scientist, played nicely by Jodie Foster, went through a worm hole and met with aliens who posed as her deceased father.

Pretty good speculation.

Keep[ an open mind.

yzer
01-11-2011, 08:44 PM
No, I've been an atheist for at least forty years.

McMike
01-11-2011, 08:46 PM
. . . Now, do you want to hear how I experience bliss?

Well sh17, now I do . . . maybe . . . :p

LeeG
01-11-2011, 08:57 PM
Keep[ an open mind.

cultivate a healthy mind

htom
01-11-2011, 09:14 PM
I'm not sure. Raised Lutheran, my friends have many faiths, some none. As I've read and studied and talked, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that the "Western" understanding of the world, universe, and God are either incorrect or so corrupted by human politics and fear as to have no usefulness. I do believe that when we die, we are all, each and every one of us, including me, are going to be very surprised. At the moment, I'm probably closest to being a Philosophical Daoist.

Bob Adams
01-11-2011, 09:19 PM
Yes, I don't see how anyone looking at the night sky far from shore could think it's nothing more than a cosmic accident. Somebody is driving the ship.

BTW, I have no problem with anyone's brand of religion, we all sprang from the same parents.

Keith Wilson
01-11-2011, 09:24 PM
I was also raised in a Protestant household; my father was a Methodist minister, and my wife's a Unitarian mister. I'd have to say that I honestly don't know. I suppose that shouldn't be at all surprising; like most human beings, I'm spectacularly ignorant about most of the universe. I don't see any really convincing evidence, but occasionally I get a strong feeling that there's something behind it all that occasionally shines through - but maybe that's just my own mind playing tricks. Who knows? There are a lot of human ideas about God that I definitely do not believe in. I do believe in kindness and compassion and justice - but that has to do with how we treat each other.

Jack, you should read the book Contact. The movie's good (Jodie Foster's great) but the book's a lot more intersting and goes into much greater depth.

ishmael
01-11-2011, 09:41 PM
Good responses. When you mention God it get's all sticky, with people of all stripes getting in a huff, a silly bundled undies. Don't mistake this idiot conflict in the Middle East as less than a conflict over the image of God.

My Yawhe is supreme, your Mohammed is blasphemy. Try to kill me, and I will kill you.

What a bunch of hooey.

Bobcat
01-11-2011, 09:46 PM
Can't answer without a definition of what God could be. If you're asking about the one that I was taught about in Sunday School, an omnipresent, all-knowing Deity that cares about me personally and knows everything I have ever done, well, then no I don't believe in that being.

If you're asking if there is a higher order and presence in the universe, there may well be.

Beowolf
01-11-2011, 09:48 PM
Yes. Yes I do.

yzer
01-11-2011, 09:53 PM
My wife is an Episcopal priest. Sometimes differences make a good relationship more interesting, as it has in our marriage of 32 years.

I don't come from the Madalyn Murray O'Hair school of combative atheism, although I have an American Atheist gold symbol hanging from the rear view mirror of the WRX. This is something of a take on the St. Christopher medals I remember in cars as a kid. I get along with believers just fine. Classical music is a long-time love of mine, especially early liturgical music.

stumpbumper
01-11-2011, 10:03 PM
I don't presume to know. I sincerely hope there is and often feel there is. If there is, I don't believe he/she/it ever abandons a soul in search of truth. I respect all faiths for we are all searching.

Katherine
01-11-2011, 10:04 PM
I believe in lots of things. I used to believe in the sanctity of marriage. Now I believe I married an idiot.

McMike
01-11-2011, 10:18 PM
I believe in lots of things. I used to believe in the sanctity of marriage. Now I believe I married an idiot.

Ouch!!! Did he make you greens again?

LeeG
01-11-2011, 10:20 PM
I believe in lots of things. I used to believe in the sanctity of marriage. Now I believe I married an idiot.

progress

Keith Wilson
01-11-2011, 10:29 PM
Classical music is a long-time love of mine, especially early liturgical music.Likewise. Episcopals tend to have the best music. Tallis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtJvtk6EHZE&feature=related)or Machaut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vADjiznPm0)is almost enough to make me a Christian. Almost. And Palestrina is almost enough to make me go to church with SamF. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mdmco61Htk)

ishmael
01-11-2011, 10:32 PM
Katy, give the guy a chance. I'm reminded of Samual Clemmons, Mark Twain. "I thought this man was the biggest fool I ever met but when I turned forty I was amazed how much the guy had learned.'

Shang
01-11-2011, 10:38 PM
No one is absolutely sure why aspirin works, but it isn't necessary to construct a religion about it.

Keith Wilson
01-11-2011, 10:41 PM
That's why I like some kinds of Buddhism; they don't say "This is what you must believe", but "Try this and see what happens."

Robert Meyer
01-11-2011, 10:42 PM
I am dyslexic and I believed in dog.

stumpbumper
01-11-2011, 10:44 PM
They say he has many names.

Shang
01-11-2011, 10:54 PM
I've mentioned elsewhere that I worked for a time, making documentary films in India.
I was once offered the opportunity to meet and speak with His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, who was at the time living in New Delhi.
I passed up the chance,
because I felt that I would be wasting his time.
That was probably the correct decision because those things on which we disagreed were probably irreconcilable, and those things upon which we agreed were redundant.

He is a nice man, and I kinda admire him.
He does not know that I exist, but that's okay.

yzer
01-11-2011, 11:04 PM
Likewise. Episcopals tend to have the best music. Tallis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtJvtk6EHZE&feature=related)or Machaut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vADjiznPm0)is almost enough to make me a Christian. Almost. And Palestrina is almost enough to make me go to church with SamF. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mdmco61Htk)All great pieces. Tallis: Spem in alium is drop-dead gorgeous. I first heard it forty years ago from a recording by the King's College Choir. That recording sounds very old-fashioned by today's standards. I have attended live performances of Spem in alium by the Tallis Scholars twice. The group sounds better in person than on recordings.

Another "hit" by the Tallis Scholars. Allegri: Miserere

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn39RzlhSao

Keith Wilson
01-11-2011, 11:15 PM
I have attended live performances of Spem in alium by the Tallis Scholars twice.Man, I'm jealous. OTOH, we have the Rose Ensemble (http://www.roseensemble.org/) locally.

I sang Sicut Cervus with my little singing group; five voices, and it was just at the upper limit of our skill or maybe a little beyond. Oh, but when it came together . . . .

pefjr
01-11-2011, 11:15 PM
Gods are like that big lunker that you always hear about but never see. There are more supposed gods than fish in the sea. Yet none have ever shown up at the Ball. If I had been stood up that many times fishing, I would have quit long ago.

Shang
01-11-2011, 11:16 PM
"Amazing Grace," is a soul-stirring piece of music,*
but the fact that it moves us does not imply the existence of god. It has more to do with the existence of us as appreciative and intellectual people.

* Written in 1772 by former slave trader John Newton.

ishmael
01-11-2011, 11:22 PM
Be kind and be honest. The golden rule.

I'm trying to think of the last time I broke that rule. I'm no saint, but I can't come up with a obvious breaking of it.

I had a visitation in my dreams of Diane Lane last night. I'd just watched 'Secretariat", and she came to me in a dream, saying don't give up, this is worth a struggle.

TimH
01-11-2011, 11:33 PM
To be safe its best to believe in all of them.

paladin
01-11-2011, 11:35 PM
Which one?

leikec
01-11-2011, 11:47 PM
I believe in lots of things. I used to believe in the sanctity of marriage. Now I believe I married an idiot.


I tried to warn you when he was taking that tree down....

:) :) :)

Jeff C

BrianY
01-11-2011, 11:52 PM
Assuming that you mean the Christian God as depicted in the Bible, no. Sometimes I wish I did, but it's just not something I'm capable of doing.

Some time ago I had a long correspondence over a span of two or three years with a gentleman who was very into Spinoza and his conception of God. For those of you that are not acquainted with Spinoza, he basically proved through a long series of logical expressions that if God exists, God must be everything that exists i.e. the universe and everything in it. If you define "God" as "all that exists" as Spinoza did, then to deny that God exists is to deny that existence exists and that would be silly. However, we had a long discussion whether this conception deserved the name "God" or not.

stumpbumper
01-11-2011, 11:59 PM
Or as Einstein put it, "Either everything is a miracle, or nothing is a miracle."

Chip-skiff
01-12-2011, 01:42 AM
I believe in spirits who inhabit this earth: weather gods, sea gods, mountain gods, tree gods, fairies, pookahs, kachina, and all sorts of elementals.

I'm married to a wolf goddess, after all.

TimH
01-12-2011, 02:40 AM
<h3>Here are all the answers we need as sailors,</h3>



Hawaiian Spirituality
Kokua by Martyn Kahekili Carruthers

To my hanai aunt Mona Kahele and Papa Henry Auwae: beloved kupuna,
and to all who bring down the sun
me ke aloha nui.

E Ku ... E Lono ... E Kane ... E Kanaloa
Polynesia ... a vast expanse of islands scattered across the Pacific ocean ... home to the greatest voyagers and navigators of the ancient world. Long before Western ships dared to venture far from land, the old Polynesians navigated between the distant islands of their ocean world.
The Polynesians also navigated the natural forces of their cosmos. They believed that the gods (akua) and the spirits of their ancestors (aumakua) could control the elements of nature - and they honored their most important ancestors as gods.

Ho'opuka e ka la ma ka hikina
Ka ua kahe hele no kumu kahe ...
In ancient times, many stone temples were built to honor the Polynesian gods. Called marae in the South Pacific and heiau in Hawaii, these temples were built to communicate with the gods - and to harness their power. The first and mightiest god was often called I'o, a primeval creator.
Names of the gods differed - Tangaroa and Rongo of Maori New Zealand became Kanaloa and Lono in Hawaii. The primeval natural and supernatural energies were more important than their names.

Pa ka makani na ue ka lau oka niu
Ha'a ka pua kou wali i ke kua ...
Ancient Hawaiians called the trade wind makani - the life-giving spirit of air. For millennia this elemental wind helped shape the islands of Hawaii, and later the emotional and spiritual lives of Hawaiian people. This wind helped the early Polynesian voyagers cross the Pacific ocean in their ocean-going canoes. The makani brought the god Lono, the god of fertility and healing, and supported the aloha culture. The wind is also called Ha. Aloha means with breath; aloha is generally translated as "love".
The makani wind brought another Lono - Captain Cook - and the haole hordes that followed him.
Western visitors to Hawaii are often called haole (pronounced ha-owlee) by native Hawaiians. This word has been used for pale-skinned foreigners since Captain Cook arrived at Kealakekua Bay over two centuries ago. To be haole is to be part of the cultural arrogance, prejudice and ethnocentric opportunism of those who brought disease, devastation and death to the aloha culture.
It is not a compliment. Haole means without breath and without life. To a native Hawaiian, a haole has minimal contact with family, culture and soul. Haole rarely honor or can even name their ancestors. Haole cannot appreciate the beauty and dignity of Hawaiian people. Haole only appreciate opportunities.
The missionaries rejected old traditions that sustained Polynesians for millennia. Haole landowners - often the children of missionaries - called the old gods demons and labeled their restorative power as witchcraft. To live in balance with nature became somehow wrong ... somehow bad ... somehow evil.
Old ways became illegal (http://www.soulwork.net/huna_articles/hoomanamana.htm) under haole law, but were too lively to die. They became huna, hidden, for 200 years, in remote villages and upland farms. Distorted stories about the old ways are marketed and sold by haole writers. Many Hawaiians became embarrassed by their ancestors, and deny or distort histories about the old days. Only recently have the keepers of balance, the kahuna, risked sharing their knowledge again. Only now is Hawaiian spirituality slowly recovering from the return of Lono.
Hawaiian spirituality includes chants that blend with the wind in the trees and the rhythm of the ocean waves to offer experiences of the underlying spirit of Polynesia. Hawaiian spirituality draws mana (power) from Kane in the clouds, from Kanaloa in the ocean and from Ku in the wild places. Pele, the impulsive goddess of the volcano, can be gentle and loving, as serene as her hapu'u fern forests and kukui tree groves. Yet Pele's red lava and shaking earth demand respect. Listen for Pele's chants rumbling and echoing in caverns below Hawaii Volcano Park.
Aloha - E Kolo Mai

yzer
01-12-2011, 02:59 AM
Well, the first day I stepped into sixth grade class in a Waipahu public school in 1964 I was called a Haole. So much for the spiritual justification for that. The Blue Lady was an interesting experience.

Wild Dingo
01-12-2011, 03:38 AM
"Do you believe in God"

Simple answer... No

God in the context used meaning or implying a higher power the trilogy the omnicent power etc etc etc ad nauseum as espoused puked and rabbetted on about by clergy pious morons tv evangelists pastors obscure "churches" catholic sheep etc etc etc ad nauseum... the answer is a simple flat... no

But... in times of trial and tribulation all western bred people ala those raised in so called "christian" society always call out "god help me" and pray in earnest yearning for "gods" succour... devoutness is a different kettle of fish more an indoctrination and if you will a brainwashing to believe in our human failings ala sins and the need for them to be cleansed by "god" or that higher power referred to as "god" we are held to ransom to behave in a certain way to accept the teachings of an ancient manuscript thats been diddled with fiddled with farted around with for centuries by various people with dubious levels of sanity until we have this final document that people hold dear as their one remaining salvation... and heaven help the one who finds questions that are unanswerable within it but dares to ask the questions and demand answers... and worse if by not recieving the answers they seek they walk away to seek answers elsewhere!!!... tis a terrible onus on one being a "christian" always has been I guess... its a religion founded upon a slippery foundation of threat and intimidation and many a clergy or leader of one of the many different brands of "churches" utilize that threat quotent and the intimidation factor to keep the following sheep like in its meekness and acceptance of every utterance that leader or one of their acolytes spews forth.

Oh dont get me wrong now!!... "churches" are good things!! Its the people in them that make them into what they are without the "christians" in them "churches" would be wonderful places... places of peace, contemplation and other such "christian" things but sadly the people are within them so "churches" and the "christians" within them remain as they are... full to the brim of hypocrites, avarice, egos, pride, bullies, and fools... just the way it is... mind you I have from time to time met some pretty nice people who claim to be avid (mmmm maybe that should be rabid? :D ) "christians" nice people good people... who just believe the way of the sheep living as a sheep thinking as a sheep being a sheep to some mans shepherd crook (interesting word in this context eh?) is the best way to be... safety net you know? I can do no wrong and if I do a quick confession and bobs yer uncle alls forgiven!!

But I digress... not that I digress very often as everyone knows I dont do digress... but anyways!! Short simple answer to the question posed "do you believe in god" is no :cool: an as me Irish mate told me today "may yer burn in hell ye heathen basturd!!" :D

yzer
01-12-2011, 03:42 AM
Early on, I learned how to fight in Hawaii. I wasn't tall, so I had to compete. I liked my sixth grade teacher, a Japanese-American by the name of Tanaka. He always told us, "I don't want you kids to be stupid, I want you to be smart!"

Anyway, Waipahu was very typical of most Hawaiian public schools of the day. Very structured and patriotic in many respects. The janitorial duties were carried out by students. Students served in the cafeteria. I did all of these duties gladly. Male students were assigned to honor guard: to raise the colors every morning before classes commenced. When I was assigned to color guard I protested to the school principal. They were flying a 48-star flag instead of a 50-star flag. Interestingly, the attacks and beatings stopped after I was the first student to raise a 50-star flag.

ARW123
01-12-2011, 03:57 AM
No God, no great nebulous overseeing "force", no astrological "energy" (what ever that may be). Just a brief spark of lucidity and then back to constituent elements.

God, I believe is a product of Man's fear of the unknown (plus a lot of useful social engineering as a result of pedalling religious fear to the masses) plus not wanting a logical conclusion to get in the way of a good story.

What is particulary irksome is absorbing knowledge, experience, memories & emotions for 3 score years and ten to then have them obliterated for etenity.

Bitter? yup - and I don't imagine that's different from many others, hence a "happy ever after" story to sweeten the blow...

seanz
01-12-2011, 04:02 AM
What is particulary irksome is absorbing knowledge, experience, memories & emotions for 3 score years and ten to then have them obliterated for etenity.


A short life, but a merry one.

:arg

skuthorp
01-12-2011, 05:04 AM
Nope. If I'm right I wont know a thing, if I'm wrong then it's oops! (shrug here).

Andrew Craig-Bennett
01-12-2011, 05:11 AM
Yes. But does He believe in me?

yzer
01-12-2011, 05:56 AM
No, I would say He does not. At most, God would perceive a man's life as a brief flash in His consciousness, much like Cardinal Newman's Dream of Gerontious. At best, this yarn is a an anthropomorphic vision of an Edwardian Catholic God. I don't think that God can be perceived or understood by man in the slightest degree, hence my tendency toward atheism.

skuthorp
01-12-2011, 06:02 AM
There's something pathetic about an individual man's inferiority complex and his unsatisfiable desire for some sort of immortality. If he passes on his/her genes he is in a way. Maybe there is a 'god's plan' but it only applies to genes.

ishmael
01-12-2011, 07:03 AM
Very fine replies. Thank you.

I hesitated to post the question because I was worried it would be trashed in bilge fashion. Maybe the numen of the image of God kept people from that!?

To pick up a theme, it has been terribly misused through the ages. "My God is better than your God" nanner nanner. Which almost universally meant my weapons are better than yours, and I'm going to take what you have, in the NAME OF GOD.

I hope we are getting past that, and that the current brush fires will be put out with minimal loss of life.

I pray, each day, with what is a mantra, "Jesus Christ, son of God, save us from our sin and ignorance."


It matters nothing what that mantra is, find a way to calm the mind.

Chris Coose
01-12-2011, 07:33 AM
Ish, Evidence the bilge is fresher, safer.

OK. All you prayer guys, give it up for my dear friend Tom who is going under the knife for exploration on bowel cancer today.
The higher powered? An observance for a positive outcome.
The nopes. That Tom's process from admission to the recovery room is in perfect order.
For this Buddhist, it will be a a wish for the relief of suffering.
It's all love.

Flying Orca
01-12-2011, 08:24 AM
Never have, never will unless someone presents unequivocal evidence, and there's b*gger-all chance of that.

bamamick
01-12-2011, 08:27 AM
Chris, I will pray for him the prayer I do every day for myself, my family and friends (sometimes several times a day): I pray that he has the strength to deal with this trial, and that his family and friends have the strength to deal with it as well, and that they can be there for him and surround him with as much love and comfort as they have to share. This is the only prayer that I send out there to Him.

Mickey Lake

Chris Coose
01-12-2011, 08:35 AM
God is love Mickey and as an old friend used to say, "He speaks to me through you people."

Tom Montgomery
01-12-2011, 08:44 AM
Nope. If I'm right I wont know a thing, if I'm wrong then it's oops! (shrug here).

If you are wrong He will undoubtedly forgive you. That's His job.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
01-12-2011, 08:59 AM
God is Love.
I believe in Love.



"The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name' sake.



Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: For thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies;
Thou annointest my head with oil; My cup runneth over.



Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever."



Amen.

ishmael
01-12-2011, 09:02 AM
There is a great line in the film, "Contact". The Jodie Foster character is juxtaposed to the theologian played well by Mathew McConaughhey. They are wrangling about god. Proof, scientific evidence. He says, "Well you loved your father, right?" She'd lost her father when she was ten."Yes, I loved my father."

"So, prove it."
.

James McMullen
01-12-2011, 09:11 AM
I believe that human brains are so pre-disposed to finding patterns that they end up seeking patterns where no such thing actually exists. Kind of like the way that human minds pick out faces everywhere from very minor resemblances. These aren't actually faces, but they sure look like faces to the brain of a Homo sapiens. They even seem to express distinct emotions.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vvAhyR-6PAM/TBrgysb55jI/AAAAAAAAFZc/ZP5zVCP6JMI/s1600/faces_in_objects_6.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vvAhyR-6PAM/TBrgyRiXGKI/AAAAAAAAFZU/L_hli5YS7Ts/s320/faces-in-places.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vvAhyR-6PAM/TBrgaT6sXYI/AAAAAAAAFY8/_UzNe2BYHkk/s320/421366255_fd1c36eedc.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vvAhyR-6PAM/TBrgZ7cBh5I/AAAAAAAAFYs/apg8ORHDyec/s320/379886_f520.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vvAhyR-6PAM/TBrgZQrwMeI/AAAAAAAAFYk/K2MQiqbnhak/s320/1020hl2.jpg

Likewise, people are prone to picking out random occurrences and attributing them to a God from any combination of inherently human fallacies including selective reinforcement, post-hoc rationalization, confirmation bias, cherry-picking, wishful thinking, and a fundamental misunderstanding of the laws of probibility.

There is, however, and extremely strong correlation between no belief in God and high scientific achievement. 93% of the National Academy of Science do not profess a belief in God. Take that as you will, you're going to anyways.

Chris Coose
01-12-2011, 09:21 AM
Ish, collect and read all of Carl Sagan's stuff.
Like that part on the beach where Foster asks, "what else about us humans is noteworthy"? and the costumed alien says, "that music thing you got going, where'd that come from?"

Carl Sagan the scientist, loved to write about God.

ishmael
01-12-2011, 09:42 AM
I'm of the opinion, unsubstantiate, that we create images of god to suit our purposes. But that doesn't mean we are alone.

Wild Dingo
01-12-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm of the opinion, unsubstantiate, that we create images of god to suit our purposes. But that doesn't mean we are alone.

Jack my dear old mate... of course we are NOT alone... have you looked at a picture of the solar system yet? Just this tiny little bitty one we call the "milky way" for starters then EXPAND that by whatever figure you choose to pull out of a hat double it triple it quadruple it then times it by a factor of upteen million gadzillion... and then realize we ARE NOT alone!!!

There is simply no way we this tiny insignificant little dot of a planet can be the ONLY such planet that contains thinking intelligent life!!... perhaps nothing like life as we know it... at least not life forms as we know them... but none the less intelligent (probably vastly more intelligent than we humans profess to be) and none the less life...

Now... correlate that to god... and then correlate that to the book christians follow so determinately... now on a rather simplistic level... WHY FOR ANY REAON did he create ONLY this one planet out of the many many many gadzillions of planets in the many many many gadzillion solar systems out there to contain intelligent life in the form of humans... and humans are a rather pathetic form of life form really when you delve right into it... there are far more stronger healthier longer lived life forms even on this planet "god" could have chosen... BUT I DIGRESS... Earth is but a tiny dot on the massive solar systems out there... one tiny little dot... amid all the many many gadzillions of dots... so why this particular dot? And why not many many many dots... and why just humans? why not other life forms

Okay now... So why is it that humans are the ONLY life forms that have a "god"? and how do christians KNOW that any one or many of those other life forms on those other planets are NOT gods children as such?... it becomes a really tricky thing to actually believe when you start to consider the magnitude of the solar systems and the incredibly nieve perception that we are "gods chosen" dont you think? it also becomes rather tricky to even accept "god" in the light of the massive nature of the many solar systems and therefore potentially massive numbers of intelligent life forms that exist... dont you think?

Taken on faith?... faith in what? a centuries old manuscript thats been tortured to bits rehashed, revised, translated (however untrained that translator may have been) and mucked about with bits taken out bits lost bits hidden... faith that the story or rather stories contained within are "the inspired word of god"?

IF and I do say that word LOUDLY... IF!!! god exists and IF god created the universe and IF god created the solar system and IF god created the solar SYSTEMS and IF... on and on... a whole lot of IFS my friend... without one shred of evidence other than a tattered tortured old book that may or may not hold a grain of truth... throughout history men and women have given up their lives willingly for that book and its contents and their firm heart felt belief in it... incredible to my mind is the depths to which man or woman will go for something to believe in... something to give them strength to say "I believe"... when inside them already by their very existance is the strength to say "I believe" for to be is enough... but and sadly it is a truth people in general need a crutch something to lean on something to believe in outside of themselves something to feel good about something that says "if your good you will be rewarded"... and to the contrary "if your bad this will happen and if you are bad and dont believe in this something seriously REALLY bad will happen therefore you MUST believe in this"... people throughout history seem to have needed such... it gives them power in their rather insignificant lives so they no longer feel insignificant but rather feel special and as though when life ends they can have something to hold onto that will be good or better than what was "roads paved with gold and mansions in heaven" such things people throughout the ages have required

One of the most annoying things about "christians" is the constant rabbetting on about "pray for you, him, them" sanctamonious clap trap!!... pious sanctimonous self righteous crap...

damn!! thats not like you Shane!! apologize right now young man!... okay sorry bout that all you "christians" just my experience of "christians" coming out there...

One does not need proof to know something is real but one does not require proof to know something is pure crap either... with churches and christians its obvious... hypocrites, liars, egomaniacs and self righteous... damn there I go again!!! not to judge anyone but again my experience coming to the fore

I think I shall walk away about now before you REALLY get me started!!! :D

Canoeyawl
01-12-2011, 11:56 AM
I believe in geology...

http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b457/canoeyawl/happycakejan2011051.jpg

htom
01-12-2011, 01:21 PM
Said, Chris. May Tom have an uneventful surgery and complete recovery, getting well into a much longer life. And you, too, for being concerned about him.

paul oman
01-12-2011, 02:11 PM
Did you mean Sarah Palin??? wink/wink!

skuthorp
01-12-2011, 04:20 PM
If you are wrong He will undoubtedly forgive you. That's His job.

Refer Dingo's #66 here. But thanks for the sentiment anyhow.

CK 17
01-12-2011, 04:38 PM
Great Thread. Thanks

LeeG
01-12-2011, 10:29 PM
I believe in geology...

http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b457/canoeyawl/happycakejan2011051.jpg

I like foothills

Canoeyawl
01-12-2011, 10:36 PM
I took that last Sunday, elevation 6000 ft, 2F

KM Bever
01-12-2011, 11:20 PM
YES!

ishmael
01-12-2011, 11:41 PM
Chris,

I'll read some more Sagan on your recommendation. Read Phillip K. Dick's "Valis" on my.

Lew Barrett
01-12-2011, 11:54 PM
Always thought this was a good line:

Now Muriel plays piano
Every Friday at the Hollywood
And they brought me down to see her
And they asked me if I would --
Do a little number
And I sang with all my might
And she said --
"Tell me are you a Christian child?"
And I said "Ma'am I am tonight"




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JzuZW-Lcns&feature=related

bobbys
01-13-2011, 12:43 AM
Jack my dear old mate... of course we are NOT alone... have you looked at a picture of the solar system yet? Just this tiny little bitty one we call the "milky way" for starters then EXPAND that by whatever figure you choose to pull out of a hat double it triple it quadruple it then times it by a factor of upteen million gadzillion... and then realize we ARE NOT alone!!!

There is simply no way we this tiny insignificant little dot of a planet can be the ONLY such planet that contains thinking intelligent life!!... perhaps nothing like life as we know it... at least not life forms as we know them... but none the less intelligent (probably vastly more intelligent than we humans profess to be) and none the less life...

Now... correlate that to god... and then correlate that to the book christians follow so determinately... now on a rather simplistic level... WHY FOR ANY REAON did he create ONLY this one planet out of the many many many gadzillions of planets in the many many many gadzillion solar systems out there to contain intelligent life in the form of humans... and humans are a rather pathetic form of life form really when you delve right into it... there are far more stronger healthier longer lived life forms even on this planet "god" could have chosen... BUT I DIGRESS... Earth is but a tiny dot on the massive solar systems out there... one tiny little dot... amid all the many many gadzillions of dots... so why this particular dot? And why not many many many dots... and why just humans? why not other life forms

Okay now... So why is it that humans are the ONLY life forms that have a "god"? and how do christians KNOW that any one or many of those other life forms on those other planets are NOT gods children as such?... it becomes a really tricky thing to actually believe when you start to consider the magnitude of the solar systems and the incredibly nieve perception that we are "gods chosen" dont you think? it also becomes rather tricky to even accept "god" in the light of the massive nature of the many solar systems and therefore potentially massive numbers of intelligent life forms that exist... dont you think?

Taken on faith?... faith in what? a centuries old manuscript thats been tortured to bits rehashed, revised, translated (however untrained that translator may have been) and mucked about with bits taken out bits lost bits hidden... faith that the story or rather stories contained within are "the inspired word of god"?

IF and I do say that word LOUDLY... IF!!! god exists and IF god created the universe and IF god created the solar system and IF god created the solar SYSTEMS and IF... on and on... a whole lot of IFS my friend... without one shred of evidence other than a tattered tortured old book that may or may not hold a grain of truth... throughout history men and women have given up their lives willingly for that book and its contents and their firm heart felt belief in it... incredible to my mind is the depths to which man or woman will go for something to believe in... something to give them strength to say "I believe"... when inside them already by their very existance is the strength to say "I believe" for to be is enough... but and sadly it is a truth people in general need a crutch something to lean on something to believe in outside of themselves something to feel good about something that says "if your good you will be rewarded"... and to the contrary "if your bad this will happen and if you are bad and dont believe in this something seriously REALLY bad will happen therefore you MUST believe in this"... people throughout history seem to have needed such... it gives them power in their rather insignificant lives so they no longer feel insignificant but rather feel special and as though when life ends they can have something to hold onto that will be good or better than what was "roads paved with gold and mansions in heaven" such things people throughout the ages have required

One of the most annoying things about "christians" is the constant rabbetting on about "pray for you, him, them" sanctamonious clap trap!!... pious sanctimonous self righteous crap...

damn!! thats not like you Shane!! apologize right now young man!... okay sorry bout that all you "christians" just my experience of "christians" coming out there...

One does not need proof to know something is real but one does not require proof to know something is pure crap either... with churches and christians its obvious... hypocrites, liars, egomaniacs and self righteous... damn there I go again!!! not to judge anyone but again my experience coming to the fore

I think I shall walk away about now before you REALLY get me started!!! :D.

For my self I'm not sure there is enough evidence to convict me of being a Christan but when i mess up there are plenty of people who will point out my mistakes and accuse me of all the things you pointed out.

ishmael
01-13-2011, 04:03 AM
Keith, I'll look for"'Contact." I need to get to the library. My problem is the books are always overdue, but I don't mind contributing to their kitty.

Chuck, You can have anyone you want. This is the internet. LOL.

I was raised pretty much without church in a post-war suburb of Cleveland. I was the first baby baptised in a Presbyterian church that had just been built, but we didn't attend except for high hollidays. It was OK, I've noticed that people who get religion shoved at them when young are sometimes resentful about it as adults. I think coming to Christ as an adult has been just right because it isn't colored by childhood misfortune.

Mine is a mystical Christ, the highest level of human enlightenment. Not unlike the Buddha, not unlike him at all. It's also very grounded. I imagine him walking his ministry, breaking bread with the down trodden, and the wealthy businessman, and everyone in between. A sweetness that is often lost in translation, but willing to confront too. You don't throw the money changers out of the temple without a pair.

When I pray I often get on my knees. I don't pray to Jesus, who was a man. I pray to what Chuck acknowledges, Wakan Tanka, the Great Mysterious. If I've learned anything it's that we are all bound together in this unfolding. Prayer, sincerely offered, can change things.

ishmael
01-13-2011, 04:15 AM
A fairly lengthy reply just got swallowed by cyberspace. Maybe it was God, telling to not be so wordy. LOL.

Anyway, may the peace of knowing help you along your way.

Wild Dingo
01-13-2011, 06:52 AM
A fairly lengthy reply just got swallowed by cyberspace. Maybe it was God, telling to not be so wordy. LOL.

Anyway, may the peace of knowing help you along your way.

WELL!!! Now IM phissed off!!! I mean you write a lengthy response and god wipes it out??? YET I write one and he just ignores me??? ooooh right well done big fella well bloody done... talk about spoilin the child man that sucks!!!... and people wonder why I dont believe in a god?? :D :D :D

Meli
01-13-2011, 07:11 AM
Refer Dingo's #66 here. But thanks for the sentiment anyhow.

+ 1
nope another ozzy atheist here. But I'm only rude to door knockers.

I appreciate the "bless you's" in the spirit of good will they are given in.
I'll return a "good luck"
I dislike fundimentalism of any creed, Christian, jewish or muslims

Andrew Craig-Bennett
01-13-2011, 07:18 AM
I planted my post no 53 as a joke for SamF or peb or TomF if they happened along, but they haven't. Yzer got it though.

Point being, of course, that if like me you are theologically Calvinist then whether God believes in you is a much more important question, since we are pre-destined to election or to damnation.

skuthorp
01-13-2011, 08:06 AM
+ 1
nope another ozzy atheist here. But I'm only rude to door knockers.

I appreciate the "bless you's" in the spirit of good will they are given in.
I'll return a "good luck"
I dislike fundimentalism of any creed, Christian, jewish or muslims
Sometimes the doorknockers can be 'turned'. I tore strips off a young woman adventist who knocked on my door with a young child, and did the same for her pastor when I bailed him up at his church or whatever it is.
But the most fun were two young Mormons who thought they had a mark, but found I had them after we parked their bikes in my garage and I took them skiing. Nice fellers really.

ishmael
01-13-2011, 08:53 AM
Shane, I glad you are back.

I had an experience, thirty some years ago, that cemented a view.

Three kids on a lark, the day before memorial day.

A dark and stormy night, and we're headed for a bar where the music and booze flowed late. We're cruising past a graveyard, and someone says pull in. We did, and got out and danced a bit on the graves in the rain. Back in the car, it wouldn't start.

Long story short, I remember walking away from that graveyard to peals of laughter. It wasn't explainable in conventional terms, there were no houses around.

I've subsequently learned that that graveyard, Turkey Foot, has a reputation.

Gerarddm
01-13-2011, 08:55 AM
Uh, whose god?

See the problem here?

:-(

Todd D
01-13-2011, 09:04 AM
No, but I do believe in physics, chemistry and mathematics.

Wild Dingo
01-13-2011, 10:49 AM
Now Jack my friend by putting that up you totally completely and utterly bloody lost me!!! What in bloody blue blazes has all that got to do with believing in god???

I LOVED the door knocking bible bashers!!! (note that was when I had a house they would door knock at) It was an incredible sight... the last time was a few years back before I sold and headed Stateside... theres this young woman an older woman (around 60) this old bloke (in his 160s!!) and a fella about 40 who gave the appearance of the leader... led the way to the door did most of the yakkin etc... anyways there was also two young nippers girl about 10 and a boy about 5 or so... all dressed to the nines not a hat among them nor a bottle of water for that matter and theyre walking around the neighborhood in 40C heat??... so... I answer the door with a long glass of iced tea in hand ice cubes achinkin dressed in me shorts no shirt with the aircon blasting behind me kids going 10 to the dozen her nibs chucking a wobbly about something or other... in other words complete bedlam!! :D and say "GIDDAY!! ooh right bible bashers whaddaya wan?" reached over to the table grabbed a smoke and lit up turned and yelled something at one of the kids or was it her nibs? anywhoooo I turned back and theyre all standing there prim an proper false smiles plastered on their sweat streaked bright red dials... and the bloke starts his speil... I finished me smoke butted it out reached around grabbed a kid by the scruff of the neck handed it the empty glass muttered "chuck some ice and tea in that will yer cheers" let it go and turned with me hand up... the bloke kept rabbiting on so I held two hands up the older woman fidgetted the REALLY OLD bloke farted burped and near passed out from the effort and the young woman tapped the mans shoulder and muttered something to him he turned to her then back to me leaned forward slightly and looked at me expectantly... I looked from one to the other waited for the nipper to arrive with the drink chink chink aaaaahhh I had this long slow drink of iced tea.... slowly... then looked at him again "carry on" I said quietly... dead silence... the young woman tapped his shoulder again he coughed gave her a quick hardish look and off he went again... I leant there watching them against the door jamb in the cool of the shade of the INSIDE of the house... until I couldnt stand it anymore... the kids were near on fainting the old couple were near on ready for their caskets and the girls nice white floral dress was rapidly becoming see through with the sweat she was leaking from every pore... held me hand up again... then the second one this time he noticed and shut up leaning forward... "Mate you better get them nippers and old fellas into the shade and get em a cool drink before you got a few carked bods to carry back to your car" he just looked at me as if Id spoken swaheeli or timbuktooian turned to the young woman and was about to say something when the kids barrelled past and through them at a rate of knots... and suddenly the two kids were gone!! Lost to the multitudes of my mob and the ringins that they cultivated... I shrugged... the old bloke coughed and I thought "aahh shyte here we go a bloody dead carcas on me doorstep thats just what I dont need" and wondered how I could explain that to her bloody highness he coughed again I looked over at him and in a quiet croaky voice he said "Young man may I trouble you for a glass of water please" MAN WAS HE POLITE!!! Me? I woulda just wandered over to the hose turned it on and held the thing over me head... So I turned looked for and found another it "OY!!!" its head turned around looking at me expectantly "Grab a couple of glasses get some water into them and a bit of ice and bring em out will yer? cheers" I waited till it had got its arse into gear and started moving and turned back to the old fella "No worries just hang on a tick"... a few seconds later the it arrived with a tray of cold water... well now!! I tell yer those people could sure move when they wanted!! whoooooosh like a flock of seagulls they grabbed the glasses and whooooosh gone and the hands with the empty glass in it was held forth toward me... no they didnt put them on the tray that said it was still holding but held them out to me I nodded at the it and it collected the glasses and strolled inside... I turned to the young fella and looked at him then said "Look sport I got no problem with you religious idiots flamin morons the lot of you I reckon weak buggars in need of a crutch in my book..." he opened his mouth to say something but I carried on regarless "BUT I reckon you are worse than that!!" They were all stunned and looking from me to him and back waiting for him to say something but his mouth simply remained open catchin flies as we say so I barrelled on!! "Mate take a bloody look at that young sheila shes nackered and nearly naked... nice boobs by the way love" (said boobs had become quite clearly visible albeit encased within one of those shockingly horrible bra things) the woman looked down then threw her arms across her breasts... too late!! :D I smiled and looked at the old couple "mate the old couple shouldnt be wandering around in this heat... simple fact!! Theyre near cooked I reckon we could toss a bit of olive oil on them and theyd be ready to eat theyre damned near that done you may as well get the damned undertaker here..." the old couple held together and we were interrupted by it coming out with more water swoop wwhoooooosh gone... "So listen mate I dont give a flying purple rats arse about a god that allows a young fella like you to lead these people AND THE DAMNED KIDS around in this bloody heat bashing a bloody book okay?..." and lookin at the old couple then at the young woman whos pink flush of heat had turned to a deep red of heated embarressment I smiled at her "dont hide em love theyre damned good boobs in anyones book... you mob should have more bloody brains that to be sheep to this bloody moron GO HOME GET COOL" and turned and went back inside started making another iced tea... knock knock "hey dad I think yer mates are still here" came the voice of it ensconsed in the living room oooh so it was one of mine I thought mmm wonder which one as I wandered back to the door new iced tea in hand opened it and just looked at them "eerr sorry to disturb you again but we seem to have lost the children" said the woman arms still firmly crossed in front of those wonderful boobs she was trying to hide now she knew that her pretty sunday go to church dress was see through when wet... I smiled took a sip "they'll be around somewhere unless my mob have kidnapped them... which is possible I suppose we always seem to have a few extras at the end of the day... whats their names?" "Catherine and Robert" the sheila says quietly "OY!! Go see where the nippers are and bring Catie and Bobbie back will yer!" I call to the it in the living room as I hadnt had quite enough time to figure out which it of mine it was "No wukkers dad" comes the voice from the living room clump clump clump and suddenly "OY YER PACK OF MONGRELS BRING THAT LITTLE SHEILA AND KID BACK!!" clump clump clump slump "there yer go dad theyre on their way" I smiled at the sheila then over my shoulder said quietly "I said go get them and bring them back" silence "NOW would be bloody good" "damn bloody stupid idiot moronic dipsticks who in their right minds takes bloody little kids all over the bloody place in the stinking heat anyways mutter mutter fades away back door slams I turn back to the young woman "he'll bring em back love" "thank you.." "You mob want another drink?" "yes please if its not to much trouble" "No worries"... "OY!! fill the glasses on the tray with ice and tea will someone cheers!" "yeah rightio dad" a few seconds later a female it arrives smiling and hands out the drinks by now they had actually figured out that the bloody great trees less than 20ft from the house actually provided pretty good shade which amazingly cooled them down!!! I looked at them and shook my head "what is it sir?" I looked at her and shook my head again "look love you wanna prance around being little miss goodie goodie two shoes doin yer flamin christian duty leading the heathens to god stuff fine no problems but leave the old ones and the kids at home next time okay? Killing them in this heat is really not gonna do your god or you any favors" she looked across at them and wandered back over there as the it came waltzing back toward me singing something or other under her breath long auburn locks flowing behind her... mmmm Yazmynn? nah shes up in Harvey okay has to be Jaccy then cool... "cheers Jacstar" I smile as she passed a brush as she went under the arm "Nah dad its Yaz I came over for the day remember" DAMN!!!... bloody kids do that just to stir me up Im sure of it!!!... anyway the it wanders around the corner with two scruffy filthy nippers in tow "Is that them?" I ask it "Yeah... well I think so... these them missus?" it asks the sheila she runs over and checks them "poor darling" this "dont worry" that "your filthy" the other... THEYRE KIDS KIDS ARE MEANT TO BE FILTHY DDDUUUUUHHHH... man I so wanted to say that but the opportunity slipped by cause with a glare they were gone the young fella and the two old people in tow... not a word just that glare and heads up their arses they were gone... it walks back toward me "funny buggars eh dad" "too right matey too bloody right but theyre "special" people so we gotta be nice to them remember that eh" "no wukkers dad REAL special mob" and we went inside

Where were we??? OH RIGHT god... :D :D

Wild Dingo
01-13-2011, 10:51 AM
And if you THINK that was long.. you shoulda read it BEFORE the bloody forum gremlin swore bloody blue murder at me and made me cut it to shreds!! Gawd I hate editing!! :D

J. Dillon
01-13-2011, 11:03 AM
Well Ole Dingo I'd love to watch you type some day. You must smoke. Oh yes about God. I like what a ship mate said:



Yes, I don't see how anyone looking at the night sky far from shore could think it's nothing more than a cosmic accident. Somebody is driving the ship.

Bob Adams




Something started it all.|;)

JD

TomF
01-13-2011, 11:05 AM
If anyone here doesn't know at least part of what I think about God ... it's not been for lack of opportunity to find out.

James McMullen
01-13-2011, 12:32 PM
There's no need for Zeus anymore at least. He's been upstaged and replaced. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXsfGVVGb-Y)

Meli
01-13-2011, 03:26 PM
Nice story Dingo :D
The "enter" key is the one with "enter" on it

JormaS
01-13-2011, 05:40 PM
No, I don't think there are gods. But my grand children do, and I think it is a wonderful thing!:)

doorstop
01-13-2011, 05:47 PM
Don't believe in god. To me it seems a foolish concept that causes nothing but grief. I have a daughter who does believe and as a result I no longer have contact with her or my grandsons. Her way of punishing me for being a bad person....

Peerie Maa
01-13-2011, 05:51 PM
Don't believe in god. To me it seems a foolish concept that causes nothing but grief. I have a daughter who does believe and as a result I no longer have contact with her or my grandsons. Her way of punishing me for being a bad person....

She is not a Christian then?

ishmael
01-13-2011, 06:29 PM
She is not a Christian then?



I'm sorry to hear about you and your daughter, Doorstop. I'm estranged from a brother and his family. The split had nothing to do with religious faith, well, unless you count a thief as a religious issue. To my credit I've tried, numerous times to reconcile. I finally threw up my hands after being blamed, repeatedly, for their wrongs. The door is still open, but I'm staying on this side of it.

As to the religion/faith issue it's a very personal matter. I surely don't judge those with a different faith, or no faith. I came to Christ after many a lonesome road. Much study, too. Maybe because my faith is unconventional I'm freer than some believers. I don't know, it just suddenly made sense.

Peerie Maa
01-13-2011, 06:39 PM
My parents managed to get along even though one was a committed Anglican, and the other lost his belief in God during his war service. If both sides want a relationship to work, they will find a way. Growing up with those parents did not give me any faith, even though I used to support my scout troop at Church parade every Sunday. The vicar did not help, kind of assumed that everyone was there 'cos they were of the faith, and so put no effort in to it.

Keith Wilson
01-13-2011, 07:10 PM
Or as Einstein put it, "Either everything is a miracle, or nothing is a miracle."


. . . For the garden is the only place there is, but you will not find it
Until you have looked for it everywhere and found nowhere that is not a desert;
The miracle is the only thing that happens, but to you it will not be apparent,
Until all events have been studied and nothing happens that you cannot explain;
And life is the destiny you are bound to refuse until you have consented to die.

W. H. Auden

doorstop
01-13-2011, 07:19 PM
She is not a Christian then?

According to her she is.


I absolutely agree with most so called christian values but to me they are really just basic decent human values. They don't need naming and claiming by any particular group or individual.

JohnEmery2
01-13-2011, 08:02 PM
I didn't believe in God or supernatural beings at first but I was forced into believing. I had absolutely no trust in Christians what so ever in my youth.

For the first part of my life I didn't believe in God, Jesus or spirits, more in the line of Eric Van Dan Daniken, etc., but one day I was driving down the road and I was suddenly confronted by the very thing I didn't believe in. Three angles and they had a message for me, they weren't going to tell me anything, I had to figure it out for myself. In an instant I was a believer. Later I encountered two more angles, than another, then the final angle. Later on a power came over me and I had the ability to heal people. Weird feeling, like electricity. I didn't know how to handle it, the very thing I didn't believe in I can do. I was and still am VERY uncomfortable about laying of hands and praying over people, but when that power and feeling comes on me I obey. I still wonder who gives me the power sometimes, God or the devil but that’s another story. God and angles don't leave calling cards or emails.

I'm a Christian now with a healthy respect and suspicion towards other Christians. Believe you me, the devil can be found in the Christian church - but so are strong believers.

What I have discovered thru all of this - It doesn't matter if you believe in God, angles or the devil - they believe in you.

ishmael
01-13-2011, 08:06 PM
"I would never belong to a group that would have me as a member."

Groucho. Pretty good. He was a funny man.

One of the foils of the Marx brothers was a portly woman. I can't remember her name. In one schtick she has Groucho in a bear hug. "Closer, hold me closer."

"If I held you any closer I'd be in back of you.".

Back to faith. If it isn't fun, at least some days, it isn't real. Bible thumpers tend to focus on sin, whereas Jesus, if you read all that's out there about him, didn't. Oh it was a srtong part of the message, but I like to imagine him dancing.













g

jimkeen
01-13-2011, 08:43 PM
yes

Wild Dingo
01-14-2011, 04:39 AM
hahahhahahaha yeah I saw that!! I do use the enter key Meli But somehow for some reason unknown to yours truely it didnt do it when I posted the thing!! :D

JD... yep a smoker BUT NOT FOR LONG!!! Been a smoker since the marlbaro man rode into my life along with mr peter styvescent and all the sexy women lured me to the things at 14... only ever given them up once for 10 months then something happened and choof choof off I went again :( ...To be bluntly honest Ive had enough of the bloody things so during my medical today I got some champix or whatever the bloody things are called the latest givemup thing over here and from all reports and people Ive known that have used them they work so IM USING THE THINGS!!! Damned smokes have cost me a bloody fortune over the years to say nothing about the stink!!!... Im ready ive had enough Ive got a new life in a new year TIME GENTLEMAN TIME!!! :D

BUT!! I actually dont smoke while typing... takes two hands and 10 fingers to type and me gobs busy yakkin whatever it is Im writing... kinda noisey typer I am!!! Self taught never look at the fingers and rarely make mistooks!! :D about 90 or so words per minute I think Tiffany got me at last time I was down there... probably more when Im telling a yarn I guess cause its on the computer as fast as I think it... and believe me when my imaginations got hold of a good yarn its pretty damned fast up in the ol mushy stuff!!! :D

pingree8
01-14-2011, 05:24 AM
No.

No offence intended.

- Marty

elf
01-14-2011, 09:10 AM
Nice story Dingo :D
The "enter" key is the one with "enter" on it

Shane's "enter" key is labelled "return"

Peerie Maa
01-14-2011, 11:52 AM
According to her she is.


I absolutely agree with most so called christian values but to me they are really just basic decent human values. They don't need naming and claiming by any particular group or individual.
That works for me too.