PDA

View Full Version : Poll shows Majority does not blame Rhetoric



pefjr
01-11-2011, 01:58 PM
What does this mean? Bilge lefties not able to reason well? Cerebrum shut down? Politics influencing logic? Polls don't mean squat? Do tell!!

Sorry to bring you boys this disappointing news. :D

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110111/us_nm/us_usa_shooting_congresswoman_poll

S.V. Airlie
01-11-2011, 02:03 PM
If I read this correctly, not all reps are tea partiers but it dosn't' seem to matter to those here. If you are a rep.. you are automatically a tea partier...

paul oman
01-11-2011, 02:06 PM
crazy is crazy. Seems he has been fixed on her since 2007. ---- note: one of his friends described him as a drug crazy left winger.

S.V. Airlie
01-11-2011, 02:07 PM
crazy is crazy. Seems he has been fixed on her since 2007. ---- note: one of his friends described him as a drug crazy left winger.


Yuo dare say this here.. Do want to be banned or worse? The hounds do not want to think there was anything "left" wing here...A fixation with Palin and the tea party fringe group is not what some want to see.

S.V. Airlie
01-11-2011, 02:15 PM
Here we goooooooo.. My everready batteries are on fully charged...SPIN......././././/

yzer
01-11-2011, 02:18 PM
Most Americans love the vitriolic rhetoric because they are stupid, bored and find it entertaining. TV and radio would be much less attractive to them without it. It's a cheap form of instant gratification that doesn't require a lot of thinking.

oznabrag
01-11-2011, 02:21 PM
Most Americans love the vitriolic rhetoric because they are stupid, bored and find it entertaining. TV and radio would be much less attractive to them without it. It's a cheap form of instant gratification that doesn't require a lot of thinking.

Instant gratification takes too long.

S.V. Airlie
01-11-2011, 02:22 PM
Norman go write another C&P.. go ahead continue to produce anger and angst on the forum.. You are a TROLL.. Actually you are worse than a troll because people fall for you teachings...

pefjr
01-11-2011, 02:22 PM
The poll isn't quite as absolute as you imply:



Since it's not something that can ever be proved, one way or the other, I don't think we can reach an absolute conclusion, either.Interesting though, might top the birther poll.

stumpbumper
01-11-2011, 02:22 PM
Most Americans love the vitriolic rhetoric because they are stupid, bored and find it entertaining. TV and radio would be much less attractive to them without it. It's a cheap form of instant gratification that doesn't require a lot of thinking.

The poll shows most people polled, either dem or rep, didn't think the rhetoric had anything to do with it. So perhaps they weren't so "stupid."

paul oman
01-11-2011, 02:29 PM
you just know the WH is following this closely to decide what sort of spin to add or not add to his AZ speech on Wed. night... No matter what he does it will piss of a lot of folks, so the poll numbers tell him which group he can afford to piss off. Hope he does the noble thing and stays above the political spin - heck that what VPs and aids are for.

Tom Montgomery
01-11-2011, 02:29 PM
Good news!

So now the vitriolic political expression of extremists may continue unabated.

S.V. Airlie
01-11-2011, 02:32 PM
I think he has to have some sort of "spin"He has used it before during the Wright issue... He has to do something.. The country is so polarized, it is expected and yes,wanted...,even if it only makes people feel better...

johnw
01-11-2011, 02:35 PM
If I read this correctly, not all reps are tea partiers but it dosn't' seem to matter to those here. If you are a rep.. you are automatically a tea partier...
Actually, you are the only one who has said this on this forum.

And of course, if a majority don't already believe something, we should never discuss it.

S.V. Airlie
01-11-2011, 02:40 PM
Actually, you are the only one who has said this on this forum.

And of course, if a majority don't already believe something, we should never discuss it.

No discussing is fine..driving people out who do not agree with you or the others is not.. I would like to know how many democrats are here and believe in the C&P's mantra.No..forget it, I don't need to know..All I have to read are the previous posts to get the idea........

Uncle Duke
01-11-2011, 02:45 PM
I would like to know how many democrats are here and believe in the C&P's mantra.

I'd like to know what in the heck you mean by "the C&P's mantra" ....

Isn't a mantra a chanted prayer phrase?

seanz
01-11-2011, 03:48 PM
What does this mean? Bilge lefties not able to reason well? Cerebrum shut down? Politics influencing logic? Polls don't mean squat? Do tell!!

Sorry to bring you boys this disappointing news. :D

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110111/us_nm/us_usa_shooting_congresswoman_poll

But CBS said its nationwide telephone poll found that, "57 percent of respondents said the harsh political tone had nothing to do with the shooting, compared to 32 percent who felt it did."
Rejection of a link was strongest among Republicans, 69 percent of whom felt harsh rhetoric was not related to the attack, while 19 percent thought it played a part.
Among Democrats 49 percent placed no blame on the heated political tone against 42 percent who did. Among independents the split was 56 percent to 33 percent, CBS said.
It said its poll of 673 adults had a margin of error of plus or minus four percentage points.

What does it mean?
It would appear that about a third of people polled believed that the current use of rhetoric in the USA can inspire violence.
And over half the people polled are in denial about this.

Peerie Maa
01-11-2011, 03:52 PM
I'd want to know how the question was put. Frame the question badly and you could get absolutely any result.

It all sells news.

Chris Coose
01-11-2011, 04:10 PM
No discussing is fine..driving people out who do not agree with you or the others is not.. I would like to know how many democrats are here and believe in the C&P's mantra.No..forget it, I don't need to know..All I have to read are the previous posts to get the idea........

In this thread Jamie, you are jumping up and down like a crazy person, all by yourself.
Are you hankering to join the banned? It looks lots like suicide by cop.

S.V. Airlie
01-11-2011, 04:20 PM
Ask me if I care..I see the writing on the walls even if you don't. That i is your issue and and you want to ignore it, it is on your head..I don't care about bleating sheep which seem to be in control.. Be happy..with your pack mentality...,I amnot goin to respond.. I know what responding implies.. I'll lurk for a while instead..


Have a good day.. Sorry I don't have wool and bleat in unison...

Tom Montgomery
01-11-2011, 04:30 PM
Sheesh... get a grip, Jamie.

johnw
01-11-2011, 04:31 PM
No discussing is fine..driving people out who do not agree with you or the others is not.. I would like to know how many democrats are here and believe in the C&P's mantra.No..forget it, I don't need to know..All I have to read are the previous posts to get the idea........
No one has been driven out for disagreeing with me. If discussing is fine, then I gather you're fine with everything that's happened in regard to this subject on the forum, because discussing is all that's happened.

switters
01-11-2011, 04:38 PM
you just know the WH is following this closely to decide what sort of spin to add or not add to his AZ speech on Wed. ...


You think he comes here for the boats or just to hear the choir?
:d

it just sounded like the white house was watching the WBF in your post, I'm sure we all know what you meant.

stumpbumper
01-11-2011, 04:39 PM
you just know the WH is following this closely to decide what sort of spin to add or not add to his AZ speech on Wed. night... No matter what he does it will piss of a lot of folks, so the poll numbers tell him which group he can afford to piss off. Hope he does the noble thing and stays above the political spin - heck that what VPs and aids are for.


I think he has to have some sort of "spin"He has used it before during the Wright issue... He has to do something.. The country is so polarized, it is expected and yes,wanted...,even if it only makes people feel better...

If he doesn't say what you want him to say, is that "spin?" I suspect the last thing he will want to do is say something inflammatory. "Spin" is of course a relative thing. His opponents saw his distancing himself from Wright as spin. His supporters saw it as a genuine and wise thing to do.

TomF
01-11-2011, 04:39 PM
A majority of people think that the harsh tone of political discussion had nothing to do with the violence?

Hmm. Let's suppose that I pick arguments with my son, day after day and month after month. And that I just let it rip, not couching anything for tone, or language, or whatever.

This logic suggests that my argument-picking has nothing to do with the day he hauls off and clocks me? Or goes off drinking after one of our arguments, and clocks some jerk in the bar?

PhaseLockedLoop
01-11-2011, 04:47 PM
.. Sorry I don't have wool and bleat in unison...

I'm confused. I though the point of the thread is that you are bleating in unison (with the majority).

Chris Coose
01-11-2011, 04:53 PM
Remember that sceen in Columbine where Michael Moore went to the town's missle factory and wondered if building missles had anything to do with the murderer's behavior?
Yes it was a stretch for a "majority" of people and for some even his visit to the Wal-Mart ammunition department was a hideous stretch.

johnw
01-11-2011, 05:35 PM
From the ever insightful Steve Benen:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

In 1994, just a few days before the midterm elections, a deranged woman named Susan Smith drowned her two young sons. Gingrich, at the time, made infanticide a campaign issue and publicly equated Smith's murders with the values of the Democratic Party. Gingrich told the AP (http://www.alternet.org/story/8695/), "The mother killing her two children in South Carolina vividly reminds every American how sick the society is getting and how much we have to have change. I think people want to change and the only way you get change is to vote Republican."


Five years later, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 13 people at Columbine High School. Gingrich insisted that American "elites" bore responsibility for the massacre. "I want to say to the elite of this country -- the elite news media, the liberal academic elite, the liberal political elite: I accuse you in Littleton ... of being afraid to talk about the mess you have made," Gingrich said (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/05/12/gingrich/), "and being afraid to take responsibility for things you have done, and instead foisting upon the rest of us pathetic banalities because you don't have the courage to look at the world you have created."

In 2007, Seung-Hui Cho shot and killed 32 people at Virginia Tech. In response, Gingrich blamed liberals for supporting "situation ethics (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/22/gingrich-liberalism-vatech/)," adding, "Yes, I think the fact is, if you look at the amount of violence we have in games that young people play at 7, 8, 10, 12, 15 years of age, if you look at the dehumanization, if you look at the fact that we refuse to say that we are, in fact, endowed by our creator, that our rights come from God, that if you kill somebody, you're committing an act of evil." Gingrich, explaining the VT tragedy, went on to condemn Halloween costumes and the McCain-Feingold campaign-finance law.


Sure, Newt, tell us again how awful it is for political figures to rush to "draw conclusions" in the wake of a tragedy.

Nicholas Scheuer
01-11-2011, 05:47 PM
"Cerebrum" seems like an unfortunate choice of word in this case.

Moby Nick

pefjr
01-11-2011, 06:23 PM
If you want to make an issue out of this poll, Bud, then you should step up and tell us that you're in favor of increasing taxes on the wealthiest Americans. If you don't, you're intellectually dishonest and there's no point having a discussion with you.I'll give you a few facts to ponder over. Obama signed the renewal of tax breaks. 8 of the 10 richest congressmen are Democrats. 7 of the 8 voted to renew the tax breaks. The one that did not is a blue dog Demo/Repub wannabe. Yes, there are underlying reasons and compromises that went on under the table. Too many to just say it boils down to whether one is in favor of this or that. This Tax discussion could use a thread so why don't you start it and leave this one to the poll on Rhetoric.

Nicholas Carey
01-11-2011, 06:25 PM
The majority is wrong. As Driftglass points out (http://driftglass.blogspot.com/2011/01/she-can-see-fatwa-from-her-house.html), it's not Sarah Palin, it's not Glenn Beck, it's not Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh:

It is not one of them: It's ALL of them.

It is not a straight line between A and B: it's the immersive, rage-drunk, paranoid, casually eliminationist sewage in which they all luxuriate.

It is their raving, clattering, hysterical, Wall of Wingnut Sound -- underwritten by their own billionaires, amplified a million times and megaphoned into every corner of America from the pages of Regnery Press trash, from Rush Radio, from Fox News and from the pulpit -- that drowns out everything else. That has conditioned a generation of weak-minded rubes to mindlessly dehumanize and hate Liberals and blame us for their every ache and itch as thoroughly and automatically as the "good Germans" of the 1930s were conditioned to blame the Jews.

...

But worst of all, it's the professional equivocators who earn their seven-figure salaries by using the cameras they control to reflexively bellow "But the Democrats..." in the face of every Right wing lie and atrocity.

The professional equivocators who drive the getaway cars for the thugs and grifters who, for partisan gain are sledgehammering our beloved country into something ugly and mad.

The target audience has gotten the message: some pictures of these dingbats at Tea Party rallies from Firedog Lake (http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2011/01/08/these-are-not-the-violent-extremists-you-are-looking-for/):

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/tpm-20090912-protest4.jpg

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/we_came_unarmed_this_time.jpg

[But not all of them]

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/mike-pezzano.jpg

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/protester_1464203c.jpg

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/6a00d834519ed469e201287690d2cf970c-800wi.jpg

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/mike-pezzano.jpg

pefjr
01-11-2011, 06:32 PM
I have consistently said that I didn't think that there was a direct or specific link between the violent imagery in political rhetoric, and this shooting.... but that it may have had had an indirect effect......

Including Reagan's?

Nicholas Carey
01-11-2011, 06:37 PM
Also, something else Firedog Lake points out (http://firedoglake.com/2011/01/11/since-when-do-conservatives-believe-words-dont-have-consequences/): it's apparently a relatively new belief on the right that words don't have consequences.

pefjr
01-11-2011, 06:39 PM
Fer chrissakes, peffie, it's a poll... and opinion poll....So is the birther poll, so is the truther poll. But it proves a lot. But it is underlying, and I may have to tell you what it proves if you are so partisan you are unable to let the politics aside and see for yourself what this says. I think what this poll says about lefties, especially bilge lefties bothers you. Does it hit a nerve Norm?

Tom Montgomery
01-11-2011, 06:42 PM
It is not a straight line between A and B: it's the immersive, rage-drunk, paranoid, casually eliminationist sewage in which they all luxuriate.

It is their raving, clattering, hysterical, Wall of Wingnut Sound -- underwritten by their own billionaires, amplified a million times and megaphoned into every corner of America from the pages of Regnery Press trash, from Rush Radio, from Fox News and from the pulpit -- that drowns out everything else. That has conditioned a generation of weak-minded rubes to mindlessly dehumanize and hate Liberals and blame us for their every
ache and itch as thoroughly and automatically as the "good Germans" of the 1930s were conditioned to blame the Jews.

...

But worst of all, it's the professional equivocators who earn their seven-figure salaries by using the cameras they control to reflexively bellow "But the Democrats..." in the face of every Right wing lie and atrocity.

The professional equivocators who drive the getaway cars for the thugs and grifters who, for partisan gain are sledgehammering our beloved country into something ugly and mad.[/i][/indent]

The target audience has gotten the message: some pictures of these dingbats at Tea Party rallies from Firedog Lake (http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2011/01/08/these-are-not-the-violent-extremists-you-are-looking-for/)

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/tpm-20090912-protest4.jpg

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/we_came_unarmed_this_time.jpg

[But not all of them]

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/mike-pezzano.jpg

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/protester_1464203c.jpg

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/6a00d834519ed469e201287690d2cf970c-800wi.jpg

http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/01/mike-pezzano.jpg

It is hyperbole... um... metaphor... um... exaggeration... um... free speech... YEAH! THAT'S IT! IT'S 1ST AMENDMENT PROTECTED SPEECH! Yeah... that's the ticket. Just like lefty flag-burning. We have a first amendment right to threaten politicians and a second amendment right to intimidate politicians by the display of firearms at political events. Yeah... that's the ticket! What does "responsibility" have to do with it?
.

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-11-2011, 08:03 PM
Heypeffie, Emily Post says you right-wing weinies are foaming at the mouth too much and gotta' tone it down. And I'm with her. You guys ain't got no couth.

pefjr
01-11-2011, 08:50 PM
Heypeffie, Emily Post says you right-wing weinies are foaming at the mouth too much and gotta' tone it down. And I'm with her. You guys ain't got no couth.Well that's good, you want me to pass that on to the rww's. You are with her? OK, I'll get WBF to notify your next of kin. You met St Peter yet? Put on your best clothes when you go for that meeting, wish you the best