opinion please

[gert]

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1142188&slim=quick

[Venchka]

The broker is a Double Nutter-all the entries on the specs. page end in!

As always, hire a surveyor who knows his business. I wonder-does Paul Gartside do surveys? He would be my choice.

Find the folks who did the rebuild. Check their reputation. Talk to them. Find out how things were done.

Big step from a trailer boat. You will gain a few things and loose a few things. Evaluate all that stuff. Some of it real, like slippage and hauling and painting the bottom. Some of it more intangible like lack of freedom to tow the boat someplace.

Talk them down on the price! :D

[gert]

We're on the home stretch here in deciding (Iain's Mara has spoucel approval) however I'm getting "buy now sail now" from aquainteces , and older wooden boats seem to sell for les than building new.
What does "house seems affected" mean?

[imported_Steven Bauer]

I like it! That cabin sure looks comfy! And with new rigging and sails and all! Price seems reasonable, too! See what a good surveyor says!

Steven!

[Frank E. Price]

Nah, there's a period in there.

[jwaldin]

Why are you considering this boat? What are you going to do with it?
The price is 5 thousand too much. Even if it's made of solid teak.
Whoever the broker is and how he conductes business is not the point. You are considering a very unique design. You need to ask yourself some realistic questions about why you would want to own this boat let alone whether the cost of purchasing it and maintaining it worth it to you.

[Murray Campbell]

2nd the opinion that you should talk to whoever did the rebuild

a friend was looking at a boat up at maple bay a few months ago it, think this might be it, if it is i will try to find out what he found out about it

take the broker with a grain of salt, especially the part about the maintenance being like fibreglass

does "the house look affected"?? at first glance i wondered if the cabin complemented the lines of the hull that well...but it's not easy to get reasonably human accomodations on a fairly racey 26' hull...i'd say they did ok...and when i looked at the interior pictures i thought the layout looked practical and seamanlike...

but what do i know??

looks like it could make a good, fun gulf island- strait of georgia boat

it's important to be in love, but at the same time you've gotta be careful not to lose your head

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by gert:
What does "house seems affected" mean?[Puts on Nomex booties, nomex hood, Nomex gloves and nomex suit.]

[Arms flame suppression system.]

It means the house doesn't suit the boat. It is dissonant with the hull.

It is as if the house from one boat was dropped on another.

My issues with the house and the hull are:

1. The house is out of scale with the hull. The house is too tall and looks to be too wide. Likewise the camber on the housetop is too extreme. In particular, the house is way out of scale with the cockpit coamings—it makes them look, well, tiny in comparison. It, visually, outmasses the hull and makes the boat look top-heavy.

2. The lines of the house fight with the lines of the hull. They neither harmonise nor complement each other.

Note the sheerline: it has a certain lively "spring" to it that's pleasing to the eye. The house doesn't. While it has a certain amount of spring to its profile, its dogleg defeats it. The curve is further defeated by the enormous recilinear house lights (windows). The net effect is that the house looks like a box. This boxiness is further enhanced by the nearly vertical forward end of the house.

3. The house lights are essentially rectilinear. Boats are all curves. Smaller, more curvaceous lights would be more appropriate.

5. The cockpit coaming should "flow" into the house. Instead, ot looks like an afterthought.

6. The angle of the house's dogleg and forward end should, to my eye, reflect the angle made by the stem profile of the bow and/or the transom.

7. All of the problems are accentuated by the out-of-scale lifelines, rails and pulpits. This is a 26 foot boat, after all. They're too high and too visually obtrusive. Better off without.
—

[jwaldin]

I couldn't agree with you more.
It looks like one of those Maple Bay specials the ***son brothers concocted in the 70s. I've seen that boat and dozens, yes dozens of others, mooching around from Nanaimo to Victoria and everywhere in between over the years. If you want to see the 'creme de la creme' of the 70s output from so called 'boat builders' around Maple Bay, Genoa Bay, Cherry Point (that's a great one don't forget your camera) make sure to visit Cowichan Bay. There you will find the most wonderful collection of floating nightmares on the West Coast.
My advice to the prospective buyer of the so called x racer is to run don't walk away.

[Paul Denison]

Okay, so the cabin is a little out of whack. But if has been rebuilt properly and you want a boat to sail and enjoy, this doesn't look like a bad deal. Lots of room, clean and cheap! You couldn't buy the engine sails and lead for that price.

[Venchka]

Gert,

It's raining like mad & I had time on my hands and more than a passing interest in used boats in B.C.

So, I went to www.yachtworld.com (http://www.yachtworld.com) and proceeded to the Advanced Search. I assume you did the same?

I selected boats between $0.00 CDN and $15,000 CDN and got 43 listings. Mostly FG but a few wood including the one you are interested in. The Thunderbird, Folkboat and Van de Stadt might deserve a closer look. Just for the sake of comparison to the boat you are interested in.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

There seems to be a fair bit of boat there for the price... my issues would be with hull integrity, and mechanical systems age. A good surveyor... and some research, but my first feeling is a pretty attractive boat for a not a lot of money... I'm with Paul here, you couldn't buy a lot of the equipment for what they're asking... and altho I am not familiar with the design it has the appearance of a tried and true cruising layout given the size.
..bottom line... Do you like the boat? ;)

[Murray Campbell]

so nicholas...i had to turn my Nomex suit back in to the fire cache after BC finished burning this summer, so i was a bit more circumspect in my comments about the house.. ;)

i agree it's not a perfect match for the hull, but i still think it's an ok compromise if you don't want to buy and keep a 40 foot boat and don't want to spend your weekends stuffed in a space smaller than a tercel...nothing wrong with a keen sense of aesthetics unless it means you need a million dollars to get out and enjoy the ocean, which is what i think it's all about...i still think that cabin would be a fine place to spend a cozy night at anchor and i think you could be proud of that little well-kept boat with all her quirks tongue.gif

(and you can always ditch the lifelines)

i think a more important issue would be whether she's still sound at her age

anyways that's my two bits...oh and i had the privilege of spending a month or so on the docks down at Cow bay and it's a wonderful eccentric little community...wish i was on that little porch at the Starfish drinking a cuppa joe right now..

[ 12-13-2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Murray Campbell ]

[Venchka]

Keel to hull attachment. Very critical to evaluate that. Depending on construction, you might have to replace keel bolts to find out if the old ones were good or not. Negotiate the price accordingly. Budget for the worst.

Ya'll are right about the house. It bears a striking rememblance to a lot of the '70s vintage plastic boats in the area. I have to agree that if it were mine, I could sure live with it. Shucks, live on it!

[MJC]

I like it! Take all the above advice about surveyors and checking the structure! But!...Take her for a sail first! And think about the following!...

With a cabin that high! And that wide! What's the visibility forward under sail! While maneuvering!

Never heard of the engine! Are parts available!
Seems like a lot of boat to have an antigue 10hp gas engine! Does she motor against the wind and current!

Three gallons of water! Not much storage space!

[Aramas]

You actually want opinions? We got lotsa those around here.

So here's mine. The lines look kind of weak and bland - it's a kind of generic, plain vanilla no name hull with a clunky box of a cabin smile.gif

But it might be a good boat - the only way to tell is to sail her.

The price does seem high, but if it has a lot of new high quality gear then it could be worth it.

If it were me I'd be going for one of the doghouse folkboats - a whole bunch were built of mahogony ply lapstrake glued with resorcinol in the 50's and they're still going strong. They're about the same size and you'd get a good one for $15k CA easy, and they not only beautiful and sail even better, but have an excellent pedigree.

[jwaldin]

Kathy and I operated the C-Tow marine assistance boat out of Cowichan Bay a few years back. Twenty six feet, two Ford v8s, 45 mph. We could outrun the coast guard, sometimes $300.00 a day in fuel.We lived 24hrs a day on that boat from April to November. Came to the assistance of 32 boats and one upside down float plane. Most boats had run aground. The point? Next time you stop by the Starfish ask Jack or Praire to give you a coffee on me. Jack owned the C-Tow boat we ran. Check out my art work while you're there.

[Jack Heinlen]

a whole bunch were built of mahogony ply lapstrake glued with resorcinol in the 50's I'd never heard that before. I thought they were solid planking, copper riveted, for the most part.

But I agree that's not a terribly handsome boat. But that's subjective. What about when you go to sell it? Think about that rather than the infatuation of the moment. A Folkboat would do much the same thing and be more salable in the end. If a little smaller down below.

If it's what it purports to be I don't think the price is out of line, but at the least get someone who knows what they are doing to give it a thorough going over.

P.S. Just now looking at the other pics. She certainly looks like someone has given a great deal of care. For some reason, getting back to aesthetica, there is something about the proportion of the house, the shear, the long aft over hang that don't work for me.

I dunno, if you get a good survey, the boat meets your needs, go for it. She looks like a honey. smile.gif

[ 12-14-2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Murray Campbell:
so nicholas...i had to turn my Nomex suit back in to the fire cache after BC finished burning this summer, so i was a bit more circumspect in my comments about the house.. ;)

i agree it's not a perfect match for the hull, but i still think it's an ok compromise if you don't want to buy and keep a 40 foot boat and don't want to spend your weekends stuffed in a space smaller than a tercel...I think you're right there.

The nice thing about aesthetics in general (and boats in particular) is that no matter how wrong it may look to you...there's always someone for whom it's the perfect boat—the boat of their dreams.

And I don't "hate" the boat: I just think it's a bit off. I was just trying to enumerate it's "offness" (from my POV) :D

[Aramas]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a whole bunch were built of mahogony ply lapstrake glued with resorcinol in the 50's
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd never heard that before. I thought they were solid planking, copper riveted, for the most part.
The original ones were, but like anything there are variants. I was looking at buying one about ten years ago, and there were about half a dozen of the mahogony ply versions for sale here in AU at the time. They have a self draining cockpit, long coachroof and doghouse, and a lot more room inside - standing headroom, a double berth forward, saloon behind that and a galley/chart table at the companionway. Very roomy, pretty and dry boats. I saw one stripped down to the bare wood for a complete refit and talked to the shipwright working on her. She was 45 years old and the only problems were were the result of a leaky cockpit that had been left unrectified for too long.

I don't know where the ply lapstrake versions originated, but I doubt that they were only built here.

[Murray Campbell]

folkboats Are a beautiful thing..

jwaldin, looking forward to seeing your artwork sometime when i'm up thataway!

[ 12-14-2003, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Murray Campbell ]

[ion barnes]

There was a Thunderbird hull back east on here just a while ago.

[George Roberts]

I looked at the pictures and the boat looked fine. After reading the comments I see the issues others have raised.

If you like the boat and the price, buy it.

If you see how you can change the boat and like the price and the cost for making the changes, buy the boat.

[jwaldin]

If you buy the boat I assume you'll be sailing it around the Gulf Islands. As you know we do a lot of rain. Stuck down below for a couple of rainy weekends could be a bit much. May I suggest if you do buy the boat work out some type of awning system. You'll need the shade and it will allow to to spend more time in the cockpit when it's rainy. The cockpit in your photos looks quite big.

[Venchka]

Gert,

Something strange here. The boat is listed by two brokers. The price is $14,500 CDN. The other broker (without !s after every entry) says this:



This sleek little gentleman's yacht has been completely rebuilt from teh keel up over the past three years. Planked with teak and modern materials with low maintenance in mind. Powered by a one cylinder diesel (1993) this classic little yacht will make sailing a pleasure.
The URL:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?Currency=CAD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1044924&slim=quick&

[ 12-16-2003, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[John B]

I agree that the cabin might be a bit boxy ,but they've certainly got the maximum cabin space out of a 26 ft counter sterned yacht without compromising the cockpit area. I'm not quite so sure that affected is the right description though. I'd think more purposeful actually.It's shape has been determined by requirement. max room on small volume. I think its looks are in keeping with its age/size.
If I saw that boat sail past I'd look at it and admire it. just opinion though. LOL.
I agree with jwaldin, a good cover can really make a difference when you're cruising around. I know because I have a bad one.It's nearly a good one but it's too light :D Can't comment on price though. Too far away.

[Paul Denison]

Originally posted by Venchka:
Gert,

Something strange here. The boat is listed by two brokers. The price is $14,500 CDN. The other broker (without !s after every entry) says this:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
This sleek little gentleman's yacht has been completely rebuilt from teh keel up over the past three years. Planked with teak and modern materials with low maintenance in mind. Powered by a one cylinder diesel (1993) this classic little yacht will make sailing a pleasure.
The URL:
[URL=http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?Currency=CAD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1044924&slim=quick& ]http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?Currency=CAD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1044924&slim=quick&[/UR L]</font>[/QUOTE]Good eye! I forsee problems with these brokers.