Singlehanding gaff cutter with topsail?

[ken.bryant]

I'm getting ready to build a Gartside gaff cutter with topsail, in the 20 - 22 foot range. The only sail boats I've ever owned (a Thunderbird and a San Juan 24) were marconi-rigged sloops. I want this boat for coastal cruising, not speed, and want to be able to manage it comfortably singlehanded. Something I read made me think that handling the topsail, in particular, might be a pain for a singlehanded sailor. Comments from those with experience?

[Thad]

It helps that SEA HARMONY is a yawl so the mizzen can be used to hold her head to wind when raising or lowering the topsail. If you can get her to sail a course alone or lay to, you can work with the topsail at the mast. Otherwise you will have to run the halyard, downhauls and sheet to the helm. If you can carry the topsail along the boom in lazyjacks that helps as it gives you time to work, settiing and striking.

[George.]

Topsails are easy - unless something tangles or catches aloft, in which case you can find yourself spending considerable time at the mast, tugging and swinging and trying a different tack. A self-tending boat is a must.

Another point: drop it early if you are short-handed. It is easier to put back up if the breeze turns out to not have freshened so much, than to fight it down if you wait until the last minute...

[Ian McColgin]

I've singlehanded a schooner with both main and fore topsails so I can say with confidence, it's all in intelligent rigging.

Given the small size of your boat, she'll not likely hold a course while you wander up to the mast to set the sail, so have it sparred so it can be set with just three lines, and have them lead back to within reach of the helm. That way you can lay the sail on the leeward side, run it up under the boom and set nicely with little fear of tangle and without leaving the helm, which you will be manageing with one foot or tiller 'tween legs.

G'luck

[Gary Bergman]

I singlehand Royaliste when required and it just takes time.With both square tops'l and gaff tops'l. I find I need crew for docking, not sailing necessarily, altho I wouldn't trade off my crew for anything!

[George.]

Originally posted by Gary Bergman:
I singlehand Royaliste when required and it just takes time.http://www.privateerinc.org/images/115.jpg

I should think it takes a bit of skill as well... :eek:

[ken.bryant]

Does anyone know of a good diagram (either on web or in a book) explaining how the setting/dropping of a topsail works? I can't even picture the process.

[John B]

Like "Surprise". Barbara Burnside posts on here from time to time but would never self promote. Why don't you contact Her and Paul and ask them how they feel about it.

Some observations: Surprise ( and most of the Gartside boats)have a Jackyard topsail and they are a bit different from fisherman/jib headed types.Theres always the potential to get a the jackyard hung up in the peak halyard for example but then... you have more adjustment available to get that perfect set.

When you are looking at a gaff topsail boat you also want to think about( and ask the designer) whether the topsail is part of the working sail or if it is a light weather sail.IE: is dousing the topsail the first reef or is it an extra for the light?
I'm a follower of the latter philosophy personally and we only set it now for racing, fun or light weather.I suspect that with the modern high peaked, small topsail rigs you typically see on Gartside boats , that they may be this way. The point I'm making is that you can have your cake and eat it too because should you decide not to set your topsail, you could easily compensate by pulling out the genoa/drifter out of the forepeak. There are options.

Actually setting a jackyard topsail:
yes its a bit of a fiddle but its a small sail.Ours is about 120 ft and I can set it OK ,but its better with 2.
As said above, the primary issue is having the boat lay head to wind approx while you mess around with it. There's much debate as to whether setting a topsail to windward or leeward is best . I set and douse to windward because the sail is controlled by resting/sliding up the main and you're working on the open side of the boat with a clear view of whats happening.

There are three components you handle and this can be reduced to two by using the fall of the halyard as the tack for the sail. I tried this but... ahem... balls of string and all.So 3 lines. halyard, sheet, tack.

I copied my system from the Carrs article in WB and this pic is my interpretation of it. The halyard captives the heel of the yard .
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/p824707668e8ba0ef3e30f784a31bd088/f7549154.jpg
To set I start hauling away on the yard and then take up some sheet to get the yard vertical. Basically the whole sail is sitting there vertical in the mainsail at this stage. Once the yard is vertical , its pretty easy to run it up to the masthead but its nice to be taking up the slack on the sheet with your second pair of hands... just so that you don't get a loop of the sheet around the end of the gaff or to prevent the jackyard doing its dive into the peak span. Once the halyard is bar tight and the sheet is tightish you swig the tack line down hard and then trim the sheet for the set you want. Which is flat for anything forward of the beam. Flat.
Did I mention that it should be flat?

[ 02-26-2006, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[John B]

Found this from '99 too. testing the system.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/pc79337548f6746a153631d6cb0bc3282/fcf96d7e.jpg

[Bob Cleek]

I hardly think that a topsail is worth the effort on a 20-22 foot boat, unless you just want something to play with. There is little to be gained from a topsail unless it really is large enough to provide the first reef. Additionally, in a small boat, it is better to limit the amount of work you have to do forward. Imagine trying to untangle a mess of sheets and canvas hung up on your gaff in a slop, with one arm wrapped around the mast! You don't want to go there!

[John B]

Bob, I'm as cynical as the next guy over sails that are too small... jibs that have a trad cute sort of cut but won't stand under 15 knots because the weight of the clew drags the angle down and closes off the leach.. that sort of thing. I learnt that myself, ahem.. empirically.

But I've been looking at the photos of Surprise on the Gartside site and she is sailing well under her lowers in flat water. Barb would have to tell us whether its windy or not.. a bit hard to tell.It doesn't really look it.
Anyway, a topsail works in clean air up high and although ours is only about 10 or 11 % on our working sail it converts our boat the same way adding a #1 medium genoa on a 'normal' bermudan boat does for the light.
So I am a believer in the second philosophy, which as I said above is that the boat should sail well under lowers say 8 through 18 or 20 knots and the topsail is the equivalent of changing to a #1 genoa for 0 to say 15.

It should be overdrive , not top gear.

[Jeremy Burnett]

Its much easier if you have a pole or fidded topmast,and a jib headed sail and so do away with yards etc.The sail can be kept in a bag at the mast foot.A jackstay to a point above the peak halyard will hold the sail to the mast.

[Jeremy Burnett]

Its much easier if you have a pole or fidded topmast,and a jib headed sail and so do away with yards etc.The sail can be kept in a bag at the mast foot.A jackstay to a point above the peak halyard will hold the sail to the mast.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I hate my jackyard topsail on Mirelle, (37ft) but when I had "Mytica" (all 18ft x 6ft6ins x 4ft of baby gaff cutter!) her jackyard topsail was good fun. The little spars did not involve staggering about in the scuppers and could be managed easily.

[George.]

And let's not forget that, regardless of propulsion, a topsail is wonderful for stabilizing the gaff in light airs in a seaway...

[ken.bryant]

Many thanks to all! Now I have arguments in favor, against, and at most other points of the compass!

[sv Lorelei]

Ken,

If I might be so bold. You could build the spars with the addition of a topsail in mind and then don't add it. Sail it for a season without and see how you like her. If you feel she need a bit more push you can add the topsail for the next season.

Tim

[ken.bryant]

Thanks. Or I could only fly the topsail on days when I have enough crew... The main thing now is deciding on the overall rig. I have this thought in the back of my head (and those who have seen my other postings will know I have a new "final" plan every week) that it would be cool to ask Paul to draw me a new design in that 20-22 foot range. I like Paul's designs, and I am especially keen about the idea of having a local (and living!) designer; but even with his off-the-shelf plans, there is (inevitably) no one boat that's exactly what I want. So: at the moment, what LOOKS good to me is a gaff-cutter-and-topsail rig, but Paul's designed for other rigs as well.

I know the right advice is: Sail a whole bunch of rigs and find out which one I like. Trouble is, I don't have that kind of time -- because of my job, which interferes with living; because of age, which requires that I get on with this soon. So I'm trying to read enough, and get enough out of you guys out there, that I can sit down with Paul at some point and know what I want...

That just turned this into a new thread, didn't it: What would I ask Paul Gartside to design for me? Granting that Paul will have something to say about that himself, I'd want the boat to:

--be a deep keel, super-seaworthy boat, because what I enjoy most is days with lumpy water, and I'd like to be able to do occasional west-coast-of-vancouver-island cruising;
--be sailable single-handed;
--have rudimentary accomodations for two, with three in a pinch;
--have a diesel inboard;
--be CONSPICUOUSLY wood: lots of brightwork, the opportunity for some fancy (if small-scale) joinery in the cabin, laid deck (however impractical);
--use a bare minimum (or none at all) of glass, glue, etc.
--require no construction processes that can't be achieved with a well-stocked set of hand tools
--be as efficent a sailer as possible within these constraints -- but speed not a big issue, headroom not at all an issue.
--edited to add: be buildable, with hand tools, in...oh...3000 hours or less. So...three tons max?

Any other questions I should be asking myself?

[ 03-01-2006, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: ken.bryant ]

[brian.cunningham]

Any reason you couldn't fly the topssail first?

Using it to essentially pull the gaff up.