European Larch for strip planking?

[Urk]

Hi,
I am a professional boatbuilder in New Zealand and am planning the building of a 42ft Bristol Pilot Cutter. I want to build the boat using the sheathed/strip method and have just been speaking with my local sawmiller, who is a yachtsman, and he has a big lot of seasoned, good quality locally grown European Larch (Larix Decidua). It was cut from 90 year-old trees and he is offering it to me at a good price.
Have any of you used this timber and would it be suitable for strip planking, probably using epoxy as the interplank adhesive?
Hope someone can help
Thanks

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

It's good stuff for normal carvel planking.

If you have a good supply of it, why not do that?

[Ruud]

Here is a German builder he uses larch for strip planking a 32ft colin archer

web page (http://www.colin-archer-leif.de/frameset.html)

I am also considering using larch for a small strip planking dingy.

[Bob Smalser]

I suspect it's fine, but it's not in any of my (US) reference books. The real question is how well it glues with what and at what moisture content.

Have a lumber mill in NZ that makes plywood out of it? I'd call their chief engineer and ask him.

[Three Cedars]

I've used a bit of Western Larch locally here in Southern BC , Canada , it has very regular straight grain. , pretty fair rot resistance in my experience.
It outlasts w.red cedar for fenceposts. The wood seems to retain a natural oil, if you get a splinter you will know it.

From what I've read all of the larches have similar wood , seems like a good choice for boat planks.

[Bob Cleek]

Never worked any E. larch, but heard tell it is excellent planking wood. I do know from the sort of boat you are planning to build. Given her size and scantlings, it would be far, far, easier and much less costly to plank conventionally with larch. Your boat would also be worth more when launched and throughout her life. Of course, as a professional boatbuilder, you probably knew that... right?

[ 01-14-2005, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: Bob Cleek ]

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

What Bob said.

In England, larch is is by far the commonest wood used for normal planking, clinker or carvel.

I've never heard of it being used for cold moulding, here. I would not be wildly confident of its gluing properties.

Some of it can be rubbishy but it looks like you have a good supply.

[boatlover]

Originally posted by Bob Smalser:
..... Have a lumber mill in NZ that makes plywood out of it? I'd call their chief engineer and ask him.I read in a CLASSIC BOAT article that Oughtred used larch plywood for Jeannie II - he made a point that it was not generally available. I have also read that one of the European plywood manufacturers (Bruynzeel ?) makes a point of supplying plywood of whatever species wood is desired - not clear if there is some minimum quantitiy requirement.

How does larch plywood compare with douglas fir
as far as checking is concerned ?

Any idea as to the price comparison ?

How well does larch do with a boat soup type of finish ?

Regards,

Ed R

[Urk]

Thanks for all of your replies. It is very refreshing to get advice that does not have to filtered through the salesperson's BS membrane.
Thanks. The concensus seems to be that E Larch is an excellent carvel timber but is slightly suspect for glueing due to it's high resin content. (I also got a message from a European boatbuilder to this effect).
I doubt that any plywood has been made in this part of the world out of Larch because there would not be a large enough supply of it.
Bob, I think that I could probably build a strip-planked hull of this type in slightly less time than to do the same boat conventionally, partly because this is the direction that my experience heads i.e. cold moulding, glass etc. The big saving would be in the framing which would be minimal in the strip-plank version and this would lead to considerable time-saving in the fitout. A few years ago a friend of mine built a Hess 30footer the same as the Pardy's Taliesen. He got a bit stuck when he had completed the hull and so I did much of the topside work for him; teak decks, cabintop, hatches, cockpit etc.
Anyway, it is a lovely boat (currently en route to the Wooden boat show in Tasmania) but it always used to strike me how much interior volume had been taken up by the internal structural members. I had the use of the boat for a year while the owner went to Europe and fell in love with the design concept and thats when the idea for a bigger Pilot Cutter took hold. I have not discounted carvel and thanks to your mentioning the resale implications and my discovering the stock of Larch am seriously starting to reconsider carvel. Also, like many not-so-young boatbuilders I need to be mindful of the Least Toxic route. Do you have a feel for the relative resale values of the two differently constructed finished boats. If two 42ft Pilot cutters were side-by-side and both looked "classic", what percentage higher value would you give to the conventionally constructed one. Your opinion, if you are kind enough to give me one, would obviously apply to your area.

Thanks again for the input and if anyone else has an opinion, I would be glad to hear it.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

The conventionally built boat would command a worthwhile premium in Britain; people are a little uneasy about strip/cold moulding here.

This website might help; Luke Powell has no trouble selling as many traditionally built, larch planked, pilot cutter types of around 42ft as he can build:

http://www.workingsail.co.uk/index.html

[ 01-17-2005, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Craig-Bennett ]

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Ed, I think it was just a larch veneer on some occume plywood on the Jeannie II. And I think it's the same deal on the special order stuff he was talking about. They can put a veneer of any wood you want over their regular marine ply.

Steven

[Urk]

Hi Andrew
I was in England about 18 months ago and met with Luke Powell in Gweek and spent a fascinating hour with him although at the time was not considering building one of these boats. I had forgotten that he was using Larch for planking. I do however, remember that he was getting quite a good price for his boats. When I was there he had just launched a boat which I unfortunately did not get to see but he was framing up a new one.
I did take many photos which I had better find now that I might possibly head off down a similar one-off track.
Thanks

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I do think that a conventionally built boat will command a better price; there has been a change in what people want since the 1980's. More interesting to build, too - no never-ending laying of strips in gloop!

I have a professional friend who is coming to the end of a total rebuild of a 42ft Zulu - larch planking on oak - singlehanded.

Here's some more larch:

http://www.pioneersailingtrust.org.uk/

Good luck, anyway!