PDA

View Full Version : Only in America



S.V. Airlie
12-12-2010, 09:16 AM
This has appeared for the Christmas season Atheist billboard in New Jersey

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/style/atheist-billboard-brings-in-the-holiday-season-in-nj

S.V. Airlie
12-12-2010, 09:35 AM
Well I suppose this replaces PETA for the season. Have not seen a PETA billboard for a while and in the past, they usually had a few.

Keith Wilson
12-12-2010, 09:38 AM
Why not? Churches advertise all the time, why not atheists? Equating them with PETA seems a bit unfair.

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/images/stories/misc2/atheists112910_opt.jpg


Not only in the US, though; a bus in London:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01526/atheistad_1526002c.jpg

S.V. Airlie
12-12-2010, 09:43 AM
True Keith.. Churches do. This is causing one local New Jersey and New York stink though. It's okay to be a church goer but not okay to rally forth against another opinion/belief.

Breakaway
12-12-2010, 12:35 PM
Well, I'm prejudiced for sure, but I just cant recall a religious ad or public message that called other belief systems liars. Thoughts?

Kevin

wardd
12-12-2010, 12:40 PM
Well, I'm prejudiced for sure, but I just cant recall a religious ad or public message that called other belief systems liars. Thoughts?

Kevin

happens all the time

jerry falwell comes to mind

Breakaway
12-12-2010, 12:52 PM
happens all the time

jerry falwell comes to mind

I cant doubt that that occurs in his church speaking to his congregation, people of the same ilk as he. But show me TV ad clip, billboard, handout etc that publicly mocks another religion or belief and I will concede my point.

Kevin

S.V. Airlie
12-12-2010, 12:55 PM
Well, Kevin, doesn't the ad on this page in essence mock religion. As I said, it maybe implied but to my way of looking at it it is mocking. No not saying outright the religious front is full of liars but.

If it wasn't, why post it on a billboard for what 20 grand?

bobbys
12-12-2010, 01:04 PM
Notice whenever its about no God or blame is assigned to God or God is cursed its always the Christan religion..

Its like Atheists KNOW who is the real God.

Breakaway
12-12-2010, 01:05 PM
Yes, Jamie I think it does mock religion. And I also firmly believe they have every right to publish their thoughts and beliefs. But I think its always in bad taste to make your case by knocking the case of the others, instead of citing the good points of what you've got to sell.

This applies to more than religion. For instance, If someone was selling me a boat, and instead of telling me how weatherly she was, how she tacked like a dream, and how easy to reef, he did nothing more than explain the defects of other boats, I'd walk out of his shop. Convince me that your product ( idea, service, belief, whatever) is worth buying into on its own merits is what I'm saying.

Kevin

Paul Pless
12-12-2010, 01:06 PM
Its like Atheists KNOW who is the real God.> :D

S.V. Airlie
12-12-2010, 01:15 PM
Agreed Bobbys

Tom Montgomery
12-12-2010, 01:22 PM
.
That damned 1st Amendment!

Not only can we not protect Christianity by making it the official state religion... but we've gotta put up with out-spoken atheists!

What were those old men in powdered wigs thinking 200-odd years ago?
.

Ian McColgin
12-12-2010, 01:26 PM
Christians are every bit as denigrating of alternative views. Find the openminded tolorance for Bhuddists, Muslims, Shintos, atheisits, etc. in:

Finding the Real Jesus
Life’s greatest discovery

No one can ignore Jesus forever

Jesus: Everything else will fade

If it doesn’t lead to Jesus, it doesn’t lead to God

And so many more. Some evangelical outfits provide ideas, like the one I stole the above from at: http://net-burst.net/quips/punchy.htm

Breakaway
12-12-2010, 01:31 PM
Christians are every bit as denigrating of alternative views.

Agreed. But do they do so for the consumption of the general public, as in a billboard or other ad? If so, where? If they did, I'd find that in equally bad taste. If these notions are reserved for the private audience of the congregation or group, its not bad taste

Kevin

Paul Pless
12-12-2010, 01:32 PM
Christians are every bit as denigrating of alternative views. Don't you really mean, 'some Christians'?

Tom Montgomery
12-12-2010, 01:39 PM
But do they do so for the consumption of the general public, as in a billboard or other ad? If so, where?


Here is a billboard given to us by "Answers In Genesis" who presently operate the Creation Museum and are slated to operate the proposed Creation Amusement Park in Kentucky:

http://freeinquiryforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/20090601-gun.jpg



And another classic:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_j9oDqG2zBGE/SSBmDUWcsEI/AAAAAAAACYA/RGi2-q0RZRo/s400/christian+billboard+one.jpg

Breakaway
12-12-2010, 01:44 PM
Tom... I would agree that those are in bad form. I have not seen messages of this type. What religion sponsored these? Do you know?

Kevin

SamSam
12-12-2010, 01:52 PM
I cant doubt that that occurs in his church speaking to his congregation, people of the same ilk as he. But show me TV ad clip, billboard, handout etc that publicly mocks another religion or belief and I will concede my point.

Kevin


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVfij0kE6u9ib2x6Z38Wu240ql8Azvg nTeIX3vcexiQMLRgK1f


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJDTr_6VWWCZ6VLGEYaZVbQnu0BHD-EK9vk0S81aiXaVeeQr7i

http://reason.com/assets/mc/mwelch/2010_03/Westboro.jpg


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://reason.com/assets/mc/mwelch/2010_03/Westboro.jpg&imgrefurl=http://reason.com/blog/2010/03/03/what-do-you-do-with-the-god-ha&usg=__6wS2gPXrT31WK9-aOeOMzfUGh5k=&h=343&w=320&sz=40&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=WXbk7POmntLR7M:&tbnh=160&tbnw=149&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgod%2Bhates%2Bfags%26hl%3Den%26client %3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D617%26gbv%3D2%26t bs%3Disch:10%2C171&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=655&vpy=226&dur=6070&hovh=232&hovw=217&tx=129&ty=122&ei=Nx0FTe_nJ4H88AbOkM3pAg&oei=Nx0FTe_nJ4H88AbOkM3pAg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:0&biw=1280&bih=617http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bored.com/billboards/images/atheist_billboard.jpg&imgrefurl=http://godlesspaladin.wordpress.com/2009/01/&usg=__qgaJgMJuavk4VmwHWdWyBj_3eig=&h=375&w=500&sz=45&hl=en&start=51&zoom=1&tbnid=drs80n4JeQdMZM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=205&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbillboards%2Bagainst%2Bmuslims%26hl%3 Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DG%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D617%26gbv%3D2%26t bs%3Disch:10%2C1539&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=575&vpy=238&dur=570&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=105&ty=95&ei=ZhkFTY7YLYGdlge03MmCCA&oei=dhgFTe7NG4G78gai-sXoAg&esq=7&page=4&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:51&biw=1280&bih=617http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bored.com/billboards/images/atheist_billboard.jpg&imgrefurl=http://godlesspaladin.wordpress.com/2009/01/&usg=__qgaJgMJuavk4VmwHWdWyBj_3eig=&h=375&w=500&sz=45&hl=en&start=51&zoom=1&tbnid=drs80n4JeQdMZM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=205&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbillboards%2Bagainst%2Bmuslims%26hl%3 Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DG%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D617%26gbv%3D2%26t bs%3Disch:10%2C1539&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=575&vpy=238&dur=570&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=105&ty=95&ei=ZhkFTY7YLYGdlge03MmCCA&oei=dhgFTe7NG4G78gai-sXoAg&esq=7&page=4&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:51&biw=1280&bih=617

Breakaway
12-12-2010, 01:57 PM
http://www.bored.com/billboards/images/atheist_billboard.jpg

Well, this one seems to be just ONE guy, the Rev whoever, not a religion. Still, I respect his right to his beliefs, but think its wrong.

Kevin

Tom Montgomery
12-12-2010, 01:59 PM
Answers in Genesis (http://www.answersingenesis.org/) was founded by Ken Ham. Mr. Ham is a Baptist. He has a bachelor’s degree in applied science (with an emphasis on environmental biology) awarded by the Queensland Institute of Technology in Australia. He also holds a diploma of education from the University of Queensland. He has been awarded two honorary doctorates: a Doctor of Divinity (1997) from Temple Baptist College in Cincinnati, Ohio and a Doctor of Literature (2004) from Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia.


E. F. Briggs was a Roman Catholic priest. Briggs attended St. Patrick's School in Fitchburg, Massachusetts and the Maryknoll Seminary. He graduated from Holy Cross College in Worcester, Massachusetts, and the Maryknoll Major Seminary in Maryknoll, N.Y.

Breakaway
12-12-2010, 02:07 PM
Huh... well, I happen to know that Catholics arent in line with Briggs. Are the Baptists backing AIG? I'd find that hard to believe.But then I was already proven wrong hereon this thread :).
Any similar messages from established religions like Juadaism, Baptists, Presbyterians, Catholics, Muslims. I mean the "official line" from the top of the organization, not the rants of the lunatic fringe.

Kevin

john welsford
12-12-2010, 02:10 PM
In this case its not "Only in America". I spotted one of the "Theres probably no God" banners on the way through town yesterday. Heated debate on religious matters is pretty rare in this country, and I was very surprised to see it. I have not seen any reaction to it in media or anywhere else though.
I wonder whos funding them? And why?

John Welsford



Why not? Churches advertise all the time, why not atheists? Equating them with PETA seems a bit unfair.

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/images/stories/misc2/atheists112910_opt.jpg


Not only in the US, though; a bus in London:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01526/atheistad_1526002c.jpg

SamSam
12-12-2010, 02:13 PM
Huh... well, I happen to know that Catholics arent in line with Briggs. Are the Baptists backing AIG? I'd find that hard to believe.But then I was already proven wrong hereon this thread :).
Any similar messages from established religions like Juadaism, Baptists, Presbyterians, Catholics, Muslims. I mean the "official line" from the top of the organization, not the rants of the lunatic fringe.

KevinAre Martin Luther quotes about Jews acceptable?

Tom Montgomery
12-12-2010, 02:16 PM
Any similar messages from established religions like Juadaism, Baptists, Presbyterians, Catholics, Muslims. I mean the "official line" from the top of the organization, not the rants of the lunatic fringe.

Oh no. Such messages are never endorsed as the "official line" by the top of the organization. Such messages are always sent by free agents.

In politics this tactic is known as "plausible deniability."
.

S.V. Airlie
12-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Well over the years there have been complaints about the church creches. Many of them have been removed.

Tom Montgomery
12-12-2010, 02:19 PM
Don't you really mean, 'some Christians'?

Yep. For that matter, we really mean "some atheists."

SamSam
12-12-2010, 02:20 PM
Well, I'm prejudiced for sure, but I just cant recall a religious ad or public message that called other belief systems liars. Thoughts?

KevinAround here there are numerous religious radio stations that constantly belittle others. The annual bemoaning of the secularists war on Christmas is in itself a lie. How do you rate calling people liars versus lying about others?

Tom Montgomery
12-12-2010, 02:22 PM
Well over the years there have been complaints about the church creches. Many of them have been removed.

Wrong. An extremely misleading statement.

Creches have been forced to be removed from public and government property.

I defy you to reference one instance of the forced removal of a creche from either church or private property.
.

downthecreek
12-12-2010, 02:24 PM
Agreed. But do they do so for the consumption of the general public, as in a billboard or other ad? If so, where?
Kevin

You can see slogans like the ones mentioned by Ian on church notice boards all over the place. I often pass one particularly insistent one often on my way into our local town (Colchester) in the grounds of the Salvation Army Citadel. (I like the Sally Ann, incidentally, and regularly donate, because they genuinely do help the people in real need and don't make their help conditional on going through the motions of religiosity)

Really, though, what does it matter? I wonder how many people take any notice of them. People who already know what they think won't change their minds and I imagine most who haven't thought about it will treat them as "part of the landscape".

Tom Montgomery
12-12-2010, 02:24 PM
Around here there are numerous religious radio stations that constantly belittle others. The annual bemoaning of the secularists war on Christmas is in itself a lie.

You should hear Sunday morning on the far ends of AM radio dial here in Louisville. What a hoot!

S.V. Airlie
12-12-2010, 02:25 PM
Wrong. An extremely misleading statement.

Creches have been forced to be removed from public and government property.

I defy you to reference one instance of the forced removal of a creche from either church or private property.
.

Yes true but what groups got them to remove them. Someone had to have whether it was an atheist or someone else. The point here is that they were there for years. Someone complained

bobbys
12-12-2010, 02:27 PM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVfij0kE6u9ib2x6Z38Wu240ql8Azvg nTeIX3vcexiQMLRgK1f


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJDTr_6VWWCZ6VLGEYaZVbQnu0BHD-EK9vk0S81aiXaVeeQr7i

http://reason.com/assets/mc/mwelch/2010_03/Westboro.jpg


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://reason.com/assets/mc/mwelch/2010_03/Westboro.jpg&imgrefurl=http://reason.com/blog/2010/03/03/what-do-you-do-with-the-god-ha&usg=__6wS2gPXrT31WK9-aOeOMzfUGh5k=&h=343&w=320&sz=40&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=WXbk7POmntLR7M:&tbnh=160&tbnw=149&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgod%2Bhates%2Bfags%26hl%3Den%26client %3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D617%26gbv%3D2%26t bs%3Disch:10%2C171&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=655&vpy=226&dur=6070&hovh=232&hovw=217&tx=129&ty=122&ei=Nx0FTe_nJ4H88AbOkM3pAg&oei=Nx0FTe_nJ4H88AbOkM3pAg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:0&biw=1280&bih=617http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bored.com/billboards/images/atheist_billboard.jpg&imgrefurl=http://godlesspaladin.wordpress.com/2009/01/&usg=__qgaJgMJuavk4VmwHWdWyBj_3eig=&h=375&w=500&sz=45&hl=en&start=51&zoom=1&tbnid=drs80n4JeQdMZM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=205&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbillboards%2Bagainst%2Bmuslims%26hl%3 Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DG%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D617%26gbv%3D2%26t bs%3Disch:10%2C1539&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=575&vpy=238&dur=570&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=105&ty=95&ei=ZhkFTY7YLYGdlge03MmCCA&oei=dhgFTe7NG4G78gai-sXoAg&esq=7&page=4&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:51&biw=1280&bih=617http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bored.com/billboards/images/atheist_billboard.jpg&imgrefurl=http://godlesspaladin.wordpress.com/2009/01/&usg=__qgaJgMJuavk4VmwHWdWyBj_3eig=&h=375&w=500&sz=45&hl=en&start=51&zoom=1&tbnid=drs80n4JeQdMZM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=205&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbillboards%2Bagainst%2Bmuslims%26hl%3 Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DG%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D617%26gbv%3D2%26t bs%3Disch:10%2C1539&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=575&vpy=238&dur=570&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=105&ty=95&ei=ZhkFTY7YLYGdlge03MmCCA&oei=dhgFTe7NG4G78gai-sXoAg&esq=7&page=4&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:51&biw=1280&bih=617.

The left loves equating the Westboro church as a Christan Church even though its Fred Phelpes and his family members .

Your missing that they hate Catholics and Baptists.

Yet The Press loves to highlight them and they are brought up in almost every bilge conversation about Religion.

Better move on to the Tim Macviegh, Crusades ,Raw Faith standard line now...

Tom Montgomery
12-12-2010, 02:31 PM
Yes true but what groups got them to remove them. Someone had to have whether it was an atheist or someone else. The point here is that they were there for years. Someone complained

Sort of like poll taxes? Slavery? I could go on....

It is always that damned contrarian minority who insist on stirring the pot and questioning the Constitutionality of long-accepted practices.

SamSam
12-12-2010, 02:34 PM
.

The left loves equating the Westboro church as a Christan Church even though its Fred Phelpes and his family members .

Your missing that they hate Catholics and Baptists.

Yet The Press loves to highlight them and they are brought up in almost every bilge conversation about Religion.

Better move on to the Tim Macviegh, Crusades ,Raw Faith standard line now...bobbys, are you paid to be such an internet nanny ninny?

Breakaway
12-12-2010, 03:30 PM
Are Martin Luther quotes about Jews acceptable? I don't know what he said, but I can gather from your reference that it probably wasn't good. Did he say these things as representing a religion? Or himself? What was his church?

In any case, I still disagree with any message or group that relies on knocking the competition to sway people to their side. I mean, if the "true believers" cant even speak glowingly about their own beliefs, why should I even consider them? I still respect their right to make public those views however.

S.V. Airlie
12-12-2010, 03:37 PM
I don't know what he said, but I can gather from your reference that it probably wasn't good. Did he say these things as representing a religion? Or himself? What was his church?

In any case, I still disagree with any message or group that relies on knocking the competition to sway people to their side. I mean, if the "true believers" cant even speak glowingly about their own beliefs, why should I even consider them? I still respect their right to make public those views however.


Luther? Well basically protestant (became protestant in his thinking )well we are talking excomunication here.I think Diet of Worms 1521.

PhaseLockedLoop
12-12-2010, 03:44 PM
I don't know what he said, but I can gather from your reference that it probably wasn't good. Did he say these things as representing a religion? Or himself? What was his church?

In any case, I still disagree with any message or group that relies on knocking the competition to sway people to their side. I mean, if the "true believers" cant even speak glowingly about their own beliefs, why should I even consider them? I still respect their right to make public those views however.

Jesus H. Christ! He was the first Lutheran. He started Protestantism. As in Protest.

Breakaway
12-12-2010, 03:45 PM
Luther? Well basically protestant

Well, I know that. What I don't know was whether he was an ordained minister or whatever and acting as a representative of any church. Or was he a freelancer. A freelancer with a big following, but a freelance nontheless?

Kevin

Breakaway
12-12-2010, 03:47 PM
That one I DO know: That was a different Luther (http://forum.woodenboat.com/Lutheranism%20is%20a%20theological%20movement%20to %20reform%20Christianity%20with%20the%20teaching%2 0of%20justification%20by%20grace%20through%20faith %20alone.[1]%20Lutheranism%20identifies%20with%20the%20theolog y%20confessed%20in%20the%20Augsburg%20Confession%2 0and%20the%20other%20writings%20compiled%20in%20th e%20Book%20of%20Concord.[2]%20Lutheranism%20is%20a%20major%20branch%20of%20We stern%20Christianity%20that%20identifies%20with%20 the%20theology%20of%20Martin%20Luther,%20a%20Germa n%20reformer.%20Luther%27s%20efforts%20to%20reform %20the%20theology%20and%20practice%20of%20the%20ch urch%20launched%20the%20Protestant%20Reformation.% 20Beginning%20with%20the%2095%20Theses,%20Luther%2 7s%20writings%20disseminated%20internationally,%20 spreading%20the%20ideas%20of%20the%20Reformation%2 0beyond%20the%20ability%20of%20governmental%20and% 20churchly%20authorities%20to%20control%20it.[3]), some 400 years earlier.

S.V. Airlie
12-12-2010, 03:48 PM
Jesus H. Christ! He was the first Lutheran. He started Protestantism. As in Protest.


no he started off a priest was then excommunicated by leo....then formed the Protestant church.. But he was a priest before becoming a protestant

skuthorp
12-12-2010, 03:57 PM
Well now I have to agree with some of you here about this manifestation of "atheism", to mall intents and purposes 'unbelief' developing into a belief before your eyes. Maybe an inevitable manifestation of man's desire to be a member of a group, but it has nothing whatever to do with my position. I have prefered not to call myself anything with 'theist' in the title, it just puts you in another slot. Seems like a good idea. But I happily say Merry Christmas to anyone. 'Happy hollidays' seems such an artificial copout.
So, "Merry Christmas and a great New Year to you and yours from Jeff and Anne.

SamSam
12-12-2010, 06:03 PM
I don't know what he said, but I can gather from your reference that it probably wasn't good. Did he say these things as representing a religion? Or himself? What was his church?

In any case, I still disagree with any message or group that relies on knocking the competition to sway people to their side. I mean, if the "true believers" cant even speak glowingly about their own beliefs, why should I even consider them? I still respect their right to make public those views however.I guess you're asking about ML King, I was talking about Martin Luther, a great guy for quotes. They may be old ideas but they still work wonderful for fueling modern holocausts.

You can't be serious about "knocking the competition to sway people to their side". It's only lately (in civilized places) the church has stopped killing people for disagreeing with them. Do you think the religious think kindly about those they consider heretics, apostates and blasphemers? Do you think saying everyone is a sinner is not insulting?

Keith Wilson
12-12-2010, 08:26 PM
Well - how would you advertise Atheism without saying "there's no God"? Consider that Atheists have no other universally-held beliefs, no creed, not much of a doctrine besides that. As far as it's a belief system at all, it's a negative one. I'm rather at a loss to imagine an Atheist ad that does otherwise.

Breakaway
12-12-2010, 10:32 PM
Keith--saying "There's No God" is a statement of belief. Saying, as the billboard does in the OP, " You Know Its a Myth" is an attack on the beliefs of others.

Kevin

Gerarddm
12-12-2010, 10:44 PM
Well, I dunno. Does it MOCK religion? It is The Season, after all, so they could hardly NOT cite it when making their point about celebrating Reason instead. I suppose if the major Season of the year was Hindu or Ba'Hai or Muslim, they'd cite that example.

I do prefer the English bus sign though- far more witty.

Curtism
12-12-2010, 10:55 PM
Keith--saying "There's No God" is a statement of belief. Saying, as the billboard does in the OP, " You Know Its a Myth" is an attack on the beliefs of others.

Kevin

Shooting a doctor at his place of worship is an attack, Kevin. Putting up a sign that may cause people to pause and reflect on their beliefs is something that organized religion does all the time. Do you think churches are attacking people with some of the statements they put on their marquees urging people to repent, find Jesus and put their faith in the lord? No offense but, your argument sounds pretty one sided.

ljb5
12-12-2010, 11:21 PM
So what should we do about it?

Burn 'em at the stake or clap 'em in the stocks?

pefjr
12-12-2010, 11:45 PM
I kinda like that "You KNOW it is a Myth". You KNOW it's a Hoax would be even better. Biggest hoax in the history of Homo sapiens. It's also Big Business. Myth, +Hoax, +Government tax free help, +con men = Big Business

Folks,
You also KNOW there is no heaven.
You also KNOW there was no such thing as immaculate conception.
You also KNOW there was no resurrection.

Even Kentucky is trying to get your money at the Noah's Ark exhibit.

WAKE UP!!

LeeG
12-13-2010, 04:17 AM
as trolls go this is a decent effort

Keith Wilson
12-13-2010, 08:17 AM
The distinction between a positive statement of belief (There is no God) and one which says alternative beliefs are false (Christmas is a myth) is pretty subtle. I'm not sure it's at all useful, since one follows directly from the other. I suppose that one could argue the latter is in poor taste, but I'm not sure about this supposed taboo on saying that someone else's religious/philosophical beliefs are wrong, since the more aggressive proselytizing Christians do it all the time. "You're going to hell if you don't believe" is orthodox Christian theology, although the more mainline churches don't talk about it much these days. I imagine to a Buddhist or Jew, "Jesus saves" would look much like "You know it's a myth". I think the major difference is that we're all used to public advertisements for Christianity, but not Atheism

It's encouraging that everyone so far thinks the atheists have a perfect right to say what they like.

S.V. Airlie
12-13-2010, 08:22 AM
The distinction between a positive statement of belief (There is no God) and one which says alternative beliefs are false (Christmas is a myth) is pretty subtle. I'm not sure it's at all useful, since one follows directly from the other. I suppose that one could argue the latter is in poor taste, but I'm not sure about this supposed taboo on saying that someone else's religious/philosophical beliefs are wrong, since the more aggressive proselytizing Christians do it all the time. "You're going to hell if you don't believe" is orthodox Christian theology, although the more mainline churches don't talk about it much these days. I imagine to a Buddhist or Jew, "Jesus saves" would look much like "You know it's a myth". I think the major difference is that we're all used to public advertisements for Christianity, but not Atheism

It's encouraging that everyone so far thinks the atheists have a perfect right to say what they like.

Good passage Keith

Allison
12-13-2010, 09:02 AM
Breakaway you posted this in response to the picture below

"I just cant recall a religious ad or public message that called other belief systems liars. "

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01526/atheistad_1526002c.jpg[/QUOTE]

Now as I read your statement you are implying that the ad on that bus is calling the idea of the existence of God a lie.
Well that's just not the case!!
It says that " There's probably no God", that's implying that there's a chance that there is no God. It says nothing definite about the existence or non existence of God and it definitely doesn't claim that anyone is lying!

In fact it leaves it as an unresolved issue and suggests that people should "stop worrying", it's a distraction from enjoying your life.

There is absolutely no claim in that statement that claims anything like what you've assumed.
There is no attack on religion all it says is that there is a chance and its a big issue that can't be resolved so stop worrying and live!

The same applies to the other image. To say something is a myth is not to say that it is a lie. Myths almost always have at least a kernel of truth, often quite a substantial basis in truth. Whereas a lie is an absence of truth, it stands in opposition to the truth.
The Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury have stated repeatedly that the bible is not to be taken literally, that to do so is a simplistic interpretation of the matter. If that is the case then the stories related in the bible could easily be regarded as myths. Popular stories that convey a story about some events with a message, often moral, but not necessarily so, all built around some historical facts in many cases.
There is no claim in that other image that God is a lie either !|:)|:)

Paul Pless
12-13-2010, 09:05 AM
In fact it leaves it as an unresolved issue and suggests that people should "stop worrying". . .So, in your opinion, Christians worry more than non Christians?

Allison
12-13-2010, 09:10 AM
Paul i have no opinion on that.
Think about it, how could I?

BrianY
12-13-2010, 10:14 AM
Kevin -

A fundamental flaw in your question is that you're assuming that the atheist billboard messages represent an "official statement" from some central authority. Athesim has no central authority to issue any sort of statement on behalf of all atheists. It's not like the Catholic Church where the Pope can speak for all Catholics.The atheist billboards are analogous to pro-Christian statements or ads made by a particular church, sect or individual.

John Smith
12-13-2010, 11:04 AM
What, exactly, is the problem?

I'd suggest all look for "Religulous" on their HBO et al.

I think I'd have likely done done a slightly more subtle billboard.

Paul Pless
12-13-2010, 11:13 AM
I think I'd have likely done done a slightly more subtle billboard.Yet you suggest we all watch Religulous. That's just asinine. . .

SamSam
12-13-2010, 11:19 AM
So, in your opinion, Christians worry more than non Christians?The concept of hell and heaven is a fundamental cause for worry in many Christians, I think that's what the bus sign was saying. The issue of whether or not you are living up to God's standards and expectations is never resolved until you are actually standing there, in the shadow of the pearly gates. (Are there shadows in Heaven?) And then there would be the worry of are you following the right religion?

Then again, belief in God is probably a huge relief from worry for most. "It's God's will - It's out of my hands- What will be, will be". Which could also be an argument for mans inventing God, it allows one to not have to think so much about the whys and wherefores so you can concentrate and deal with putting food on the table or stopping others from taking your stuff, people like SamF Unchained.

SamSam
12-13-2010, 11:28 AM
Why be subtle?

Um, yeah, religion actually makes no sense and is only a continuation of ancient, extremely primitive stories that lack any credibility in this day and age.

You're going to suffer in Hell for Eternity, you God Damned Paganistic Heathen with your False Idols and Wicked Ways, But Not me, I've Seen the Light and Have Repented and Been Saved. I Am Good, You Are An Evil POS.

Osborne Russell
12-13-2010, 11:30 AM
Why be subtle?

In time even the best marketing becomes stale.

perldog007
12-13-2010, 11:45 AM
Well, I'm prejudiced for sure, but I just cant recall a religious ad or public message that called other belief systems liars. Thoughts?

Kevin Well I am of the opinion that my friend Malik's son Nidal heard some strong opinions on the belief systems of Judaism and Christianity from that mosque in Northern Virginia where he presumably met Anwar al-Awlaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki) on his way to becoming the Ft. Hood Shooter. Whether or not the word liar was used would be further speculation though.

perldog007
12-13-2010, 11:47 AM
Why be subtle?

Um, yeah, religion actually makes no sense and is only a continuation of ancient, extremely primitive stories that lack any credibility in this day and age.

You're going to suffer in Hell for Eternity, you God Damned Paganistic Heathen with your False Idols and Wicked Ways, But Not me, I've Seen the Light and Have Repented and Been Saved. I Am Good, You Are An Evil POS.

I just got done re-reading the Book of St. John, and I missed the part about righteously calling non-believers Evil POS while proclaiming one's self to be good. Chapter and verse?

SamSam
12-13-2010, 02:14 PM
I just got done re-reading the Book of St. John, and I missed the part about righteously calling non-believers Evil POS while proclaiming one's self to be good. Chapter and verse?
You want chapter and verse when we're talking about billboards. What I posted is not chapter and verse, chapter and verse says....


The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator — who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (Romans 1:18-32)Of course it depends on which books of the bible you view as acceptable. But that there says

believers in god are...

righteous

and godless nonbelievers are...

wicked, fools, sinful, sexually impure, liars, shameful, lustful, indecent, perverted, depraved, evil, greedy, envious, murderous, full of strife, deceit and malice. We're gossips, slanderers, insolent, arrogant and boastful. Haters. We're senseless, faithless, heartless and ruthless. We disobey our parents. Even our women are nasty from their association with us.

God says we deserve death.

F*ck that noise.

TimH
12-13-2010, 03:51 PM
I imagine there is a high percentage of Scandinavian descent here.


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT5brtv4BvXDYvvCsBbwKfgmjert-g3TR022L-AxNnVzOWT173m

Keith Wilson
12-13-2010, 07:12 PM
It's God's will - It's out of my hands- What will be, will be. I'm sure that's very helpful for many people. It seems to me it works as well without the first sentence, though. "It's out of my hands- What will be, will be" is very often true, whatever religion or philosophy we subscribe to. It's a big universe, and there's not much any one of us can control. Recognizing that is useful, I think.

Flying Orca
12-13-2010, 07:56 PM
You want chapter and verse when we're talking about billboards. What I posted is not chapter and verse, chapter and verse says....

Of course it depends on which books of the bible you view as acceptable. But that there says

believers in god are...

righteous

and godless nonbelievers are...

wicked, fools, sinful, sexually impure, liars, shameful, lustful, indecent, perverted, depraved, evil, greedy, envious, murderous, full of strife, deceit and malice. We're gossips, slanderers, insolent, arrogant and boastful. Haters. We're senseless, faithless, heartless and ruthless. We disobey our parents. Even our women are nasty from their association with us.

God says we deserve death.

F*ck that noise.

To which I can only add applause.

Breakaway
12-13-2010, 09:29 PM
Look none of this bothers me personally. Everyone has a right to voice an opinion and make it public. I'm just sayin when you add a clause like YOU KNOW its a myth, then you are being confrontational, as opposed to saying Christmas is a Myth. The same goes for those churches that post boards saying REPENT YOU SINNERS, actually, as another poster brought up. No one should presume to tell another what he thinks, should think, or what he is or should be. Make your statement, but don't tell me I'm living in a fantasy world NOR tell me I'm a sinner. Be civil. Is that so hard?

K

Tom Montgomery
12-13-2010, 09:32 PM
If we were civil FoxNews would not call it a "Culture War" and a "War on Christmas."

Yes?

Breakaway
12-13-2010, 09:40 PM
If we were civil FoxNews would not call it a "Culture War" and a "War on Christmas."

Yes?

Lets not get started on what they call news these days. News is as dead as the dodo. That goes for all the outlets.

Kevin

SamSam
12-13-2010, 10:49 PM
I'm sure that's very helpful for many people. It seems to me it works as well without the first sentence, though. "It's out of my hands- What will be, will be" is very often true, whatever religion or philosophy we subscribe to. It's a big universe, and there's not much any one of us can control. Recognizing that is useful, I think.Yes it works well for everyone, probably essential to some degree or another. There must be a name for it. Anyway, when it's institutionalized it seems to cover more ground and leave people feeling even less personally responsible, that it's not only something they have no control over, they can point to the party that is responsible. It's in the same territory as the rational of "I'm not to blame, I was just following orders".

Flying Orca
12-13-2010, 10:54 PM
Look none of this bothers me personally. Everyone has a right to voice an opinion and make it public. I'm just sayin when you add a clause like YOU KNOW its a myth, then you are being confrontational, as opposed to saying Christmas is a Myth. The same goes for those churches that post boards saying REPENT YOU SINNERS, actually, as another poster brought up. No one should presume to tell another what he thinks, should think, or what he is or should be. Make your statement, but don't tell me I'm living in a fantasy world NOR tell me I'm a sinner. Be civil. Is that so hard?

K

I have no problem with civil. Civil would have been nice when I was beaten up as a kid in a new town because I couldn't tell the other kids in my class what church I went to.

Breakaway
12-13-2010, 10:58 PM
I have no problem with civil. Civil would have been nice when I was beaten up as a kid in a new town because I couldn't tell the other kids in my class what church I went to.

That sucks. I got into constant fights as a kid because I have (had) red hair.

Kevin

George Jung
12-13-2010, 11:12 PM
I'd give it two thumbs up!


Of course, I haven't read the whole thread, and other parts only superficially.

But my take is - regardless who is putting up the billboard, I doubt it will change anyones beliefs, other than cause them to reflect on what they do believe, and probably re-inforce those beliefs. Unwittingly, it's a plus. And they're spending (donated) money, so it helps the economy.

bobbys
12-13-2010, 11:15 PM
I have no problem with civil. Civil would have been nice when I was beaten up as a kid in a new town because I couldn't tell the other kids in my class what church I went to..

Most likely not the reason you got beat up.

Flying Orca
12-13-2010, 11:22 PM
Kinda looked like that to me, based on how that's what they were talking about and kept asking me. Kinda hard to figure how you could know better if you weren't there, too...

Allison
12-14-2010, 02:39 AM
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator — who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (Romans 1:18-32)

Now that is the sort of bigoted hate mongering that got the Christian Church it's wonderful reputation.
Even if I wasn't an atheist because its a position I hold as a result of intellectual research and thought, I would not be a Christian on purely ethical grounds given the vile that is spewed forth in that quotation and so many others in the name of that religion!

skuthorp
12-14-2010, 03:30 AM
I have no problem with civil. Civil would have been nice when I was beaten up as a kid in a new town because I couldn't tell the other kids in my class what church I went to.
Interesting, in my teens trhe fact that I did not attend a church or didn't believe in a god was a matter of no importance at all to my peers. The catholics thought I was lucky but were afraid not to go themselves and the protestants cared even less. The protestant teens I knew that went to church did it for the tennis courts (churches had a lot of them), and girls (who went to church to play tennis etc etc.)
But kids can be quite cruel to anyone percieved as "other".

downthecreek
12-14-2010, 04:03 AM
The same goes for those churches that post boards saying REPENT YOU SINNERS, actually, as another poster brought up. No one should presume to tell another what he thinks, should think, or what he is or should be.


I must say that it really doesn't bother me one little bit to be told I'm a miserable sinner or enjoined to repent. I would imagine the same may be true of the Christians here who, if told "you know it's a myth" will make the mental reply "I know no such thing".

I suppose that some Christians may be discomfited if a child brought up in the faith sees some of these notices and starts to ask questions that have't arisen before. But that's no worse than the discomfiture of the parents of a child frightened by assertions of sinfulness and hellfire.

I suspect the main impact opf these notices is as a contribution to the general "culture". If your environment is filled with religious messages, then religion will seem to be the norm. Conformity is quite a significant pressure.The atheist notices may go some way towards redressing the balance, although that really isn't so necessary in secular cultures where religion is little discussed and generally treated as a private matter.

Allison
12-14-2010, 05:16 AM
Hi DTC,
I think it's a positive sign when kids question institutions like churches and get past the cultural facade and make a decision based on reason rather than familial pressure. Anything that helps kids to stimulate that questioning is good regardless of whether it is an Atheist sign or an intelligent and grounded priest who welcomes the questions of an inquiring mind and facilitates and values it's growth whatever path it may eventually take.
They actually discover the ideas and philosophy behind the facades which is often wonderful like the case with Christian thought and get past the cultural stuff which is the religion which is often so negative.
Anything that gets kids questioning for themselves is positive if it's done appropriately. That's why I think ads like those depicted are valuable because they are not agressive and actually encourage questioning.
Religious tracts that demand conformity and condemn others to suffering are wrong and if the atheists did that then they would be no better than the religious zealots.
I'm disappointed by the over the top zealots on both sides that "play the man rather than the ball".
Some of the "best Christians' I've ever met were Buddhists and many of the best Buddhist were Christians.
In both cases they were people following the tenets of the philosophies and not subscribing to the cultural trappings of the religions which carry such histories of abuse.

There is a value in religion for me as a vehicle of culture but only when one is aware of all the negativities that go with it and only then is it possible to celebrate it's worth!
|:)|:)

Flying Orca
12-14-2010, 08:11 AM
Interesting, in my teens trhe fact that I did not attend a church or didn't believe in a god was a matter of no importance at all to my peers. The catholics thought I was lucky but were afraid not to go themselves and the protestants cared even less. The protestant teens I knew that went to church did it for the tennis courts (churches had a lot of them), and girls (who went to church to play tennis etc etc.)
But kids can be quite cruel to anyone percieved as "other".

Oh, as a teen it wasn't a problem - I'm talking first grade here. I just didn't fit neatly into their preconceived teams. Boxes. Whatever.

Breakaway
12-14-2010, 09:21 AM
I agree with Allison that raising the questions is a good thing. What I don't understand is why people think raising the question while raising people's hackles is going to help sway others to their point of view.

Kevin

Allison
12-14-2010, 09:24 AM
I agree with you there Breakaway|:)

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-14-2010, 09:29 AM
Well, I'm prejudiced for sure, but I just cant recall a religious ad or public message that called other belief systems liars. Thoughts?

Kevin


Have I ever introduced you to SpamF?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-14-2010, 09:33 AM
I have no problems with people who believe in myths. I have a problem with people who use that myth to excuse their own behaviour, such as "God is on our side".... Okay, if you're going to use God as a reason to do something really stupid, please show me proof that God gave you permission, or at least prove that God exists. Since no one can do either, our individual behaviour is our choice, not Easterbunnytoothfairychristallahbuddhapookies

As for the title of this thread, wrong again. The USA isn't even in the top 40 countries when it comes to Atheists. Canada is also well down the list, but is around the 20% mark. The USA is around 5% atheist. It casts a certain light on your foreign policy perspective.

pefjr
12-14-2010, 11:49 AM
I agree with Allison that raising the questions is a good thing. What I don't understand is why people think raising the question while raising people's hackles is going to help sway others to their point of view.

Kevin Blaspheme should not raise your hackles. Is establishing Blasphemy as a crime the only way your religion can stand up? Hackles, that's a defensive animal fighting position. Why would you want to fight over religion, you are not fanatical? Religion is a faith, and faith needs no defense. As an Atheist I should be able to discuss religion with you or any religious person and not be offensive. And vice versa. We might roll our eyes, and shake our head, but nothing we say should provoke hackles. If I know that what I say about man's religion will offend you and raise hackles then I will not discuss these issues with you in person. But this is a chat room with many people and a desire to discuss religion, with freedom to ask any question. Look back in the archives, but don't look too close, if your hackles are sensitive. Blasphemy may be a crime in the mother country, but not enforced in the US. (I think it is still on the books in Massachusetts, and half dozen other states)

Osborne Russell
12-14-2010, 11:53 AM
Keith--saying "There's No God" is a statement of belief.

As is "I believe I'll have another beer." Often with more sincerity and conviction.

S.V. Airlie
12-14-2010, 11:54 AM
I can't wait for an opposing billboard in Saudi or Afghanistan. Let the riots begin

downthecreek
12-14-2010, 12:44 PM
Blasphemy may be a crime in the mother country

If "the mother country" to which you refer is the UK, the ancient blasphemy laws were repealed in 2008. The last successful prosecution for blasphemy was in 1977.

downthecreek
12-14-2010, 01:00 PM
Hi DTC,
I think it's a positive sign when kids question institutions like churches and get past the cultural facade and make a decision based on reason rather than familial pressure.


So do I - both ways. There never was any familial pressure on me to adopt any religion. I thought long and carefully about the Christian religion which underpins the culture in which I grew up because it interested me and because I loved the art and the music and the glorious language of the Book of Common Prayer. But it never crossed my mind to believe in its supernatural God or in the strange (to me) view of the human condition it sets forth.

Although it underpins our western culture, Christianity really plays very little noticeable part in daily life here, unless you are a religious person. There is certainly no pressure or expectation that you will go to church or profess any religion. As it happens I know a lot of people who do go to church, partly because of my close links with a small Christian charity in the village and also the fact that I have close friends who are Roman Catholics. But none of my family or neighbours do. (If they did I would know, because I live opposite the parish church :))

Of course, most of us are regularly exposed to the forms of Christianity because the Anglican church serves the function of providing us with dignified rituals for most of our solemn public and private occasions. But really, I'm sure most young people, except possibly those that have been brought up in a strictly religious family and shielded from any external influence, simply make up their own minds in their own good time. Indeed, my RC friend and colleague, daughter of very devout cradle Catholics, is the only one of ten surviving children to have held to the faith of her parents.

I really can't see why these notices - whether atheist or religious - are such a problem to anyone.

isla
12-14-2010, 01:21 PM
Notice whenever its about no God or blame is assigned to God or God is cursed its always the Christan religion..

Its like Atheists KNOW who is the real God.

Don't be so bl~~dy daft! Naturally, those atheists who live in a predominantly Christian/Judaic society will mostly find themselves arguing with those who believe in the Christian/Judaic god.

Breakaway
12-14-2010, 02:07 PM
Blaspheme should not raise your hackles.

It doesn't raise my hackles because its blasphemous; the message raises my hackles because it presumes tell me how I should think. Its the way the message is delivered, not the content. That's why I have no problem with the bus placard-- its a statement; the billboard calls "believers" dopes.

Now, I don't really care what others think. Other people's business is other people's business. But I would think those that spend money on billboards care about the opinions of others. So I ask again: if you want "converts" or to change someone's way of thinking, why would you think a confrontational message would be effective?

Kevin

Greg Nolan
12-14-2010, 02:21 PM
Let’s see now –

Once upon a time there were people in a place called Athens who believed in gods such as Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hades, and a whole raft of others. They built magnificent temples, their philosophers and playwrights created works that are still studied and enjoyed, and they invented western democratic government. Why do Christians pretty universally dismiss the religion of this successful, model culture as “myth?”

Again, there once were people who lived along the Nile River who believed in gods such as Isis, Osiris, and a whole raft of others (including their political leaders, the pharaohs. They built magnificent temples and monuments to their gods; they created works of art widely admired today. They ruled a large part of the civilized world in a pretty effective way for a long time, though we don’t much admire their politics because they got beaten by the Romans. Maybe that’s also why Christians usually classify their religion as “myth.”

Then, of course, there were the Romans. They believed in such gods as Jupiter , Juno, Neptune, and a whole raft of others (similar to the Athenian gods but, like the Egyptians, including for a while their political leaders). They built magnificent temples, their philosophers, poets, artists and playwrights created works that are still studied and enjoyed. They rejected western democratic government in favor of tyranny and monarchy, but they ruled a large part of the world pretty effectively (the pax Romana) for centuries. Why do Christians universally dismiss the religion of this successful, model culture as “myth?”

There are a batch of similar peoples and cultures – Germanic, Celtic, Phoenician, Babylonian, Sumerian – that we admire in many ways, but whose religions Christians dismiss as myths and mythic. And then there is our own culture – western democratic culture, with sectarian Christianity as its major belief system, myth, religion, or however else the amorphous thing known as Christianity might be characterized.

I suppose Christians are comfortable dismissing these major religions as myths mostly because nobody much believes in the old religions anymore, even though they were sincerely held beliefs once upon a time. But of course, the structural intolerance of monotheism is the real reason for dismissing other religions as myths (or worse).

Christianity is (as a culture) very uncomfortable with the fact that right now, in our own world, there are major religions accepted, followed, and believed in by huge numbers of people. When being polite, Christians often dismiss these people and their religions as “misguided” or with some other such euphemism. When not being polite, words like unenlightened, heretic, infidel, pagan, evil, satanic, corrupt, and worse are used.

Because Christianity is traditionally a monotheistic religion, it has difficulty accounting for different religious systems – Buddhism and Islam are probably the most prominent – and their acceptance by millions of people. They even have difficulty with the fact that there are Christian beliefs that differ significantly from each other (high church Episcopal and snake-handling evangelical, for example).

If your god is the one and only god, if your god is the true god, then every other god must be false – just basic logic.

In the past (often not the distant past), this difficulty has caused Christians to go to war and otherwise commit murder, mayhem, and political attrocity -- the Crusades, the Spanish and other Inquisitions, the English civil wars, pogroms, the Know-Nothings and the KKK -- I could go on quite a bit, but you should be getting the idea. Everything not the one true god must fall somewhere along a continuum from “second best’ through “myth” to “corrupt, misleading evil.”

Of course, many individual Christians are “tolerant” of other beliefs and believers – but even the notion that these others must be “tolerated” suggests inferiority.

Looking at history, it seems that the major difference between a “myth” and a “religion” is whether the belief system is part of history or part of current events.

It also seems that “truth” in any absolute sense has little to do with religion, that “myth” or “mythic” are very accurate terms for any and all religions, and that “lie” is incorrect and inflammatory when applied to another’s religion, belief, or non-belief.

Osborne Russell
12-14-2010, 03:03 PM
Looking at history, it seems that the major difference between a “myth” and a “religion” is whether the belief system is part of history or part of current events.

An excellent post. Many important points to go unanswered.

To paraphrase Noam Chomsky, a religion is a myth with an army and a navy. "Under this shall you conquer" is how MEM became western, never forget it, never let anyone forget it.

In Deuteronomy and Leviticus, there's some pretty lurid stuff. Burn the sheets after the wife's period, bury the plates, no one with crushed testicles shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven. For marketing reasons things such as the parting of the Red Sea and raining frogs on Egypt are more widely known. But why is none of it considered mythology?

oznabrag
12-14-2010, 03:08 PM
... The annual bemoaning of the secularists war on Christmas is in itself a lie. ...

I am an atheist/agnostic/shamanist/pagan/something-or-other, and I derive great pleasure from greeting everyone I meet with a hearty 'Merry Christmas' about this time of year.

If they take offense, they're not my kind of people.

pefjr
12-14-2010, 03:18 PM
It doesn't raise my hackles because its blasphemous; the message raises my hackles because it presumes tell me how I should think. Its the way the message is delivered, not the content. That's why I have no problem with the bus placard-- its a statement; the billboard calls "believers" dopes.

Now, I don't really care what others think. Other people's business is other people's business. But I would think those that spend money on billboards care about the opinions of others. So I ask again: if you want "converts" or to change someone's way of thinking, why would you think a confrontational message would be effective?

Kevin I see the message as a request that the reader think or reason. . We see the message differently. Without some thought we will continue to see the message differently. Still, no reason for hackles. The bus says "probably", so does not imply that christianity is totally wrong, just probably, and that allows for you to possible be right. Wiggle room. Does not raise any hackles.


the billboard calls "believers" dopes Don't agree with this. One is not a dope if 80% of mankind are believers. It's in the genes. It is also in the genes that 20 % will reason differently. Do you see the "Celebrate with Reason". It's asking folks to think, that all.


If "the mother country" to which you refer is the UK, DCTjust a poke at PM&ACB

Breakaway
12-14-2010, 03:26 PM
;)
Burn the sheets after the wife's period,Because yay, and verily said sheets shall stink in the desert heat until you invent the laundromat


bury the platesSo that they shall be cleansed by the sacred little multi-legged creatures prior to he who calleth himself the Maytag Man doth appear!

Lotsa that stuff was just common sense, not a bad way to do things stuff.

Curtism
12-14-2010, 03:53 PM
Now, I don't really care what others think. Other people's business is other people's business. But I would think those that spend money on billboards care about the opinions of others. So I ask again: if you want "converts" or to change someone's way of thinking, why would you think a confrontational message would be effective?

Kevin

Kevin, David Silverman is the president of American Atheists and he answers those and other similar questions in this and other television interviews. I think his thoughts on this might clear up some of the questions that have been raised over this billboard on this thread. I'm not suggesting you should agree with him, much less care what he might think, but it may be a good idea to at least take a couple minutes to hear his reasoning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1kyM-Egr48

bobbys
12-14-2010, 03:54 PM
Don't be so bl~~dy daft! Naturally, those atheists who live in a predominantly Christian/Judaic society will mostly find themselves arguing with those who believe in the Christian/Judaic god..

Post anything negative about Islam here and one is immediately branded a Islamicaphopic or a fund will be set up to a Mosque.

Breakaway
12-14-2010, 04:06 PM
CustisM

I watched the vid. He sounds reasonable and intelligent, although he got a bit defensive, feeling(sic) "beset by those insisting I say Merry Christmas."

Back to this thread, Its the "you KNOW" part that I object to. That's the same as saying " Your living a lie and you and you know it." He'd have a better chance of swaying peole if his message contained the same content, but was delivered in a simple declaration, e.g, "Christmas Is a Myth."

Kevin

Duncan Gibbs
12-14-2010, 04:16 PM
Keith--saying "There's No God" is a statement of belief. Saying, as the billboard does in the OP, " You Know Its a Myth" is an attack on the beliefs of others.

Kevin

It's not a belief, but a statement of empirical fact based on repeatable observation. God has yet to reveal herself on a constant basis so that we know.

Belief is something which is based on faith.

Knowledge is something which is based on fact which is briefly defined as something which is able to be observed and measured on a repeatable basis.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
12-14-2010, 04:45 PM
This says it all as far as I'm concerned.


http://blog.dmcleish.id.au/pics/billboard-allsouls-kleenex.jpg

Osborne Russell
12-14-2010, 06:09 PM
;)Because yay, and verily said sheets shall stink in the desert heat until you invent the laundromat
So that they shall be cleansed by the sacred little multi-legged creatures prior to he who calleth himself the Maytag Man doth appear!

Lotsa that stuff was just common sense, not a bad way to do things stuff.

Common sense, sure. Having a bunch of guys with crushed testicles sitting around heaven might spoil the effect somewhat.

Allison
12-14-2010, 06:12 PM
No testicles in heaven, just lots of wings and harp music, one long music lesson. Testicles would lead to distraction and we all know where that lead to, the great downfall. Ever since the, NO testicles in heaven!

isla
12-14-2010, 06:24 PM
.

Post anything negative about Islam here and one is immediately branded a Islamicaphopic or a fund will be set up to a Mosque.

As an atheist I am more than happy to deny the existence of Allah, along with the Christian god, Zeus, Odin, the Green Man, Tom Bombadil, Santa Claus and the Wicked Witch of the West.

bobbys
12-14-2010, 06:33 PM
As an atheist I am more than happy to deny the existence of Allah, along with the Christian god, Zeus, Odin, the Green Man, Tom Bombadil, Santa Claus and the Wicked Witch of the West...

Santa?

North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) tracks Santa through satellite systems, high-powered radars and jet fighters, NORAD tracks Santa Claus as he makes his Yuletide journey around the world..

Feel Foolish now?

Allison
12-14-2010, 06:50 PM
Bobby you get back to them and see if they have any records for the Tooth Fairy, I really need that question resolved!

switters
12-14-2010, 06:53 PM
Ixchel is not pleased with the direction this thread has drifted.

bobbys
12-14-2010, 06:54 PM
Bobby you get back to them and see if they have any records for the Tooth Fairy, I really need that question resolved!.

Im looking for the Denture Fairy

Allison
12-14-2010, 07:05 PM
Read it in detail when I was young why? As for repeating just what others say BobbyT, please give me a little more credit than that! I tend to have opinions that not a lot of guys voice here!

Or are you one of those people on this forum that still believe I'm some body's puppet? I still get PM's telling me that which is really funny:d:d
Who on this forum would want to have me for an alter ego?

pefjr
12-14-2010, 07:10 PM
Ixchel is not pleased with the direction this thread has drifted.We may have to sacrifice a female. Or 2 fimales.

Allison
12-14-2010, 07:33 PM
We may have to sacrifice a female.

better have a sharp knife Bud!!


Or 2 fimales.

I take it that you finally trying to understand the balance fimales. Frequently Ignorant Males!!
But I think you still miscalculated the ratio when you get to 1;10 or 1:15 you may be getting closer to the mark as far as understanding a woman's value!
I'm being generous there, I really think 1:100 considering some of the candidates for the other side of the equation!

John Smith
12-14-2010, 07:37 PM
So do I - both ways. There never was any familial pressure on me to adopt any religion. I thought long and carefully about the Christian religion which underpins the culture in which I grew up because it interested me and because I loved the art and the music and the glorious language of the Book of Common Prayer. But it never crossed my mind to believe in its supernatural God or in the strange (to me) view of the human condition it sets forth.

Although it underpins our western culture, Christianity really plays very little noticeable part in daily life here, unless you are a religious person. There is certainly no pressure or expectation that you will go to church or profess any religion. As it happens I know a lot of people who do go to church, partly because of my close links with a small Christian charity in the village and also the fact that I have close friends who are Roman Catholics. But none of my family or neighbours do. (If they did I would know, because I live opposite the parish church :))

Of course, most of us are regularly exposed to the forms of Christianity because the Anglican church serves the function of providing us with dignified rituals for most of our solemn public and private occasions. But really, I'm sure most young people, except possibly those that have been brought up in a strictly religious family and shielded from any external influence, simply make up their own minds in their own good time. Indeed, my RC friend and colleague, daughter of very devout cradle Catholics, is the only one of ten surviving children to have held to the faith of her parents.

I really can't see why these notices - whether atheist or religious - are such a problem to anyone.

Ah, but there is a price we all pay. Churches don't pay property taxes. I couldn't get Montclair's town council to explain why that is, but Montclair had 55 "churches" on large chunks of land. This equated to several millions of dollars of property taxes they were exempt from, so everyone else has to pay more.

I'd consider that an impact.

bobbys
12-14-2010, 07:37 PM
We may have to sacrifice a female. Or 2 fimales. .

I think they need to be Virgins but Im not going to be the guy that Asks Allison if she fits the bill.:D

Tom Galyen
12-14-2010, 07:40 PM
There is a heaven.
There was a Immaculate Conception.
There was a Resurrection.
There is a Hell.

The church does not need government money and should never accept it. As no one should. It always comes with strings attached.

pefjr
12-14-2010, 07:40 PM
.

I think they need to be Virgins but Im not going to be the guy that Asks Allison if she fits the bill.:DShe is a granny so that rules her out. I think.

John Smith
12-14-2010, 07:42 PM
There is a heaven.
There was a Immaculate Conception.
There was a Resurrection.
There is a Hell.

The church does not need government money and should never accept it. As no one should. It always comes with strings attached.

risking repeating myself: isn't getting a free pass on taxes the same thing as taking government money?

pefjr
12-14-2010, 07:47 PM
We may have to sacrifice a female.

better have a sharp knife Bud!!


Or 2 fimales.

I take it that you finally trying to understand the balance fimales. Frequently Ignorant Males!!
But I think you still miscalculated the ratio when you get to 1;10 or 1:15 you may be getting closer to the mark as far as understanding a woman's value!
I'm being generous there, I really think 1:100 considering some of the candidates for the other side of the equation! Don't be so defensive. We know your value. Besides, Ixchel is very picky, and we have to choose wisely.

Flying Orca
12-14-2010, 07:58 PM
Post anything negative about Islam here and one is immediately branded a Islamicaphopic or a fund will be set up to a Mosque.

Well, that's selective memory for you. IIRC the mosque fund was set up to publicly counter the Koran-burning eejit in Florida, a la Pennies In Protest.

You might be labelled an Islamophobe, though, if the shoe seems to fit.

Allison
12-14-2010, 08:00 PM
Mercy and Grace.
Interesting concepts in the Christian philosophy sadly often rarely seen in much of the work done in the name of the religion. They are 2 very distinct things!

Allison
12-14-2010, 08:02 PM
Im not going to be the guy that Asks Allison if she fits the bill.

And your friends claim that you are not a smart guy bobbys?
Now they know how wrong they've been!:d:d

Allison
12-14-2010, 08:06 PM
Don't be so defensive.

I was only thinking of your safety if you were foolish enough to try and tackle Elf!!
I'm big and loud! Elf's small and mean, DTC is regally above it all!

Allison
12-14-2010, 08:11 PM
Have fun Guys, the surveyors have left and I can get back to work, Later!

Keith Wilson
12-14-2010, 08:18 PM
I am a Unitarian/agnostic/skeptic/something-or-other with Buddhist tendencies and I also enjoy greeting people with a hearty 'Merry Christmas'. If they take offense, that's their problem, not mine..

pefjr
12-14-2010, 09:04 PM
Don't be so defensive.

I was only thinking of your safety if you were foolish enough to try and tackle Elf!!
I'm big and loud! Elf's small and mean, DTC is regally above it all!What about Nanny and Concordia? Yeah, you are right, it is probably safer to just suffer the wrath of Ixchel.. BTW that's elf, small e, cause it's a handle(her explanation , ??).

Flying Orca
12-14-2010, 09:06 PM
'Cause it would be silly to capitalize only her first initial? 'Cause she's a fan of e.e. cummings?

pefjr
12-14-2010, 09:12 PM
'Cause it would be silly to capitalize only her first initial? 'Cause she's a fan of e.e. cummings?No, I asked her once and , her answer was, I quote, "its a handle".

pefjr
12-14-2010, 09:28 PM
There is a heaven.
There was a Immaculate Conception.
There was a Resurrection.
There is a Hell.

The church does not need government money and should never accept it. As no one should. It always comes with strings attached.Tom, where ya been?
There is a heaven.Tom Yeah, I have seen it. Last summer, I had a unique view of it from 35,000 feet, on the way back from Aruba. It's in the Bahamas.

oznabrag
12-14-2010, 09:30 PM
I am a Unitarian/agnostic/skeptic/something-or-other with Buddhist tendencies and I also enjoy greeting people with a hearty 'Merry Christmas'. If they take offense, that's their problem, not mine..

Merry Christmas, Keith!

Duncan Gibbs
12-14-2010, 09:50 PM
There is a heaven.
There is no proof of any type of heaven as described by any of the major religions.#


There was a Immaculate Conception.
This is a biological impossibility and no one living or in recorded and verifiable history has observed such a phenomenon. *


There was a Resurrection.
See * above.


There is a Hell.
See # above.


The church does not need government money and should never accept it. As no one should. It always comes with strings attached.
I'm glad we could find one out five to agree upon. :D

Glen Longino
12-14-2010, 09:53 PM
I am a Unitarian/agnostic/skeptic/something-or-other with Buddhist tendencies and I also enjoy greeting people with a hearty 'Merry Christmas'. If they take offense, that's their problem, not mine..

You're a Buddhist in temporary denial.;)
I generally say anything I want to say, and I urge everybody else to do the same.
At Christmas I always say Merry Christmas. It's a sincere wish from me to them. If somebody takes it wrong it's not my problem.
Merry Christmas

Duncan Gibbs
12-14-2010, 09:58 PM
risking repeating myself: isn't getting a free pass on taxes the same thing as taking government money?

I'll repeat it as well. Tax the profits of the prophets! Why should atheists have to subsidise someone else's choice of belief.

Lew Barrett
12-14-2010, 10:08 PM
I say Merry Christmas to people I know celebrate it or those I sense need to be encouraged to be merry at this time of year. Those who say it to me are ignorant of my beliefs, since I don't celebrate Christmas. On the other hand, I am not offended by being told to have a Merry Christmas so I don't make a fuss one way or another. I am eager for the season to be over because it is generally more crowded on the roads at this time of the year. Also, I really do wish it were just the 12 days of Christmas instead of the six weeks of Christmas. It used to be the four weeks of Christmas, but they stretched the season a few years ago when they started advertising before Thanksgiving.

In respect to the billboard ad, couldn't it have been addressed just to atheists or wanna be atheists to let them know that somebody is thinking of them at this special time of the year? I would think the effect of the ad would be about as resounding as a Jesus Saves ad is to me. Non resonant, it barely registers. But if you are thinking about not believing, well now you know there is a support group. Clearly it isn't even directed to believers. Maybe from that point of view it is offensive to those who do believe.

In respect to the Muslim issue:Christians represent a solid majority in this country and barely need protection, although some people don't understand this important distinction. That is to say, it is far easier and more comfortable to be in the majority, especially if you are born into it.

In fact, I think many Americans can't tell the difference between a Sikh, a Hindu, a Buddhist or a Muslim and thus anybody with a funny hat gets tagged.
Overall, as a corollary of the Golden Rule, it is well to zealously guard the rights of others for one has a better chance they will do the same for you should your group ever require it.



Merry Christmas, Ozzie!

SamSam
12-14-2010, 10:44 PM
I love Christmas! Sometimes I even go to church Christmas Eve. I say Merry Christmas to everyone. If I knew someone would take offense by my not saying Merry Christmas, someone who believes in this Fox News secular war on Christmas BS, most likely I would say something to annoy them.

I don't think the billboard is aimed at believers. I think it's aimed at the percentage of people who claim a religion and go through the motions for social equilibrium, not rocking the boat, but who in their own mind have doubts or are outright non believers.

Glen Longino
12-14-2010, 11:19 PM
I love Christmas! Sometimes I even go to church Christmas Eve. I say Merry Christmas to everyone. If I knew someone would take offense by my not saying Merry Christmas, someone who believes in this Fox News secular war on Christmas BS, most likely I would say something to annoy them.

I don't think the billboard is aimed at believers. I think it's aimed at the percentage of people who claim a religion and go through the motions for social equilibrium, not rocking the boat, but who in their own mind have doubts or are outright non believers.

You're a voice of reason and a constant treat, Sam.
Merry Christmas!

isla
12-15-2010, 05:19 AM
..

Santa?

North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) tracks Santa through satellite systems, high-powered radars and jet fighters, NORAD tracks Santa Claus as he makes his Yuletide journey around the world..

Feel Foolish now?

Just a little Y:o and there was me thinking that it was my wife who left those socks and a bottle of whisky last Christmas :D

However, you do realise that you have just given away a vital defense secret..why didn't this appear on wikileaks? Sorry folks, thread drift.

downthecreek
12-15-2010, 05:43 AM
I don't think the billboard is aimed at believers. I think it's aimed at the percentage of people who claim a religion and go through the motions for social equilibrium, not rocking the boat, but who in their own mind have doubts or are outright non believers.Now that might really be more of an American thing. I suspect that there may be social pressures to go through the motions of religious observance in some parts of America that are not really experienced in more secular societies, where church going is the exception rather than the norm.

Some of the stuff I have read about the goings on in the Airforce Academy, for example. Gosh........

Allison
12-15-2010, 06:13 AM
Hi DTC, that pressure to conform is best illustrated by the figures for politicians. Of the 480 members of the federal legislature only one admits to be an atheist, all the rest claim to be Christian or Jewish.
1 in 480 is unbelievable, in Europe and Australia it probably runs at least 1:3 and maybe 1: 2 in some countries.
Hell, Oz has an atheist female living with her boyfriend as PM!

skuthorp
12-15-2010, 06:40 AM
Given the selection process and the cash required to stand maybe 1 in 480 isn't so unbelievable. We have our own selection methods that ensure a new member conforms. Tim and Julia probably reflect a third of the couples in the country.

downthecreek
12-15-2010, 07:16 AM
Hi DTC, that pressure to conform is best illustrated by the figures for politicians. Of the 480 members of the federal legislature only one admits to be an atheist, all the rest claim to be Christian or Jewish.


Indeed. When George Bush was busy proclaiming that he was doing God's work, Tony Blair was firmly advised by his spin doctors to keep quiet about his Christian faith because "we don't do God".

Blair recently "went over to Rome" from the Anglican church. Rome is welcome to him.

Allison
12-15-2010, 07:20 AM
Maybe the Romans do a better deal on forgiveness of sins, he needs the best deal he can get!

pefjr
12-15-2010, 09:36 AM
Hi DTC, that pressure to conform is best illustrated by the figures for politicians. Of the 480 members of the federal legislature only one admits to be an atheist, all the rest claim to be Christian or Jewish.
1 in 480 is unbelievable, in Europe and Australia it probably runs at least 1:3 and maybe 1: 2 in some countries.
Hell, Oz has an atheist female living with her boyfriend as PM!480?? what country??

Allison
12-15-2010, 10:09 AM
Don,
I just checked there are 435 members of the house of reps and 2 Senators for each state, that's 535. Not 480 Wow!! That makes the chances that there are so few admitted atheists even less likely to be true. Even more hypocrites !!
That's the second time tonight Don that you've shown your nascent qualities as a true Liberal, now you are even getting there before me and helping me out, together Don we are a team!!
Look out you Right wingers, Don is a new man and he's out to get all of you guys! :d:d:d

Not only do they have the highest rate of hypocrisy they have the highest rate of re-election in the western world, no other Western country's politicians come anywhere near that incumbency rate.
But when you consider some of the things that they actually get up to, I think the term incumbency is probably wrong. for that sort of stuff I believe the term is recidivism! :d
Don will know!

Quick quiz for you Don, how many members of parlt. in Oz?

SamSam
12-15-2010, 10:15 AM
From Wiki, I conclude there 435 in the house and 100 in the senate. If there's only 1 out of 535 that acknowledges being atheist, that is totally suspect so you know there are several there that know it's a myth. You know it is right. ;)

Allison
12-15-2010, 10:21 AM
Don are you tired, you're not making sense, do you need a nap after such a busy night? Might be the shock of coming out of the closet and revealing to the world that you are a liberal! Take it easy, Baby steps at first!

pefjr
12-15-2010, 10:29 AM
From Wiki, I conclude there 435 in the house and 100 in the senate. If there's only 1 out of 535 that acknowledges being atheist, that is totally suspect so you know there are several there that know it's a myth. You know it is right. ;)American Atheist should mail out a bumber sticker to every one of those 480 members of the legislature in all 57 states, with an added note. This is suspect, Come Clean, step out of that Closet.

S.V. Airlie
12-15-2010, 10:35 AM
If there is an atheist in Congress he has the door of the closet shut and locked. By the constitution, there is nothing about a member being one but it is frowned upon. Look at what obama went through when he was called a moslim? Or the ex gov. of Mass? The country has two catholic ( known ) candidates for president. One gave a good speech and won and the other didn't and he lost.

SamSam
12-15-2010, 10:37 AM
Yes! A bumber sticker. Alison can write it.
Already done Donn.
http://www.atheists.org/store/

"You KNOW it's a Myth" Fundraiser Bumper Sticker

$10.00

FUNDRAISER - This Bumper Sticker is a replica of our world-famous billboard near the Lincoln Tunnel. Funds raised through the sale of these bumper stickers will go to future billboards.

SamSam
12-15-2010, 10:48 AM
Here's some of what those Heathens have to say about their billboard.....

https://atheists.org/atheism/Christmas


What do you know?
Chances are, if you're reading this, you don't believe in the fable of Adam and Eve and the talking snake. You probably think it's a story, created out of ignorance, to explain the origin of life. You probably don't believe that Adam literally ate a fruit, resulting in God expelling him and Eve out of the idyllic Garden of Eden.
In other words, you know that's a myth.
Right so far? So if Adam and Eve and the Talking Snake are myths, then Original Sin is also a myth, right? Well, think about it...


Jesus' major purpose was to save mankind from Original Sin.
Original Sin makes believers unworthy of salvation, but you get it anyway, so you should be grateful for being saved (from that which does not exist)
Without Original Sin, the marketing that all people are sinners and therefore need to accept Jesus falls moot.

All we are asking is that you take what you know into serious consideration, even if it means taking a hard look at all you've been taught for your whole life. No Adam and Eve means no need for a savior. It also means that the Bible cannot be trusted as a source of unambiguous, literal truth. It is completely unreliable, because it all begins with a myth, and builds on that as a basis. No Fall of Man means no need for atonement and no need for a redeemer. You know it.

S.V. Airlie
12-15-2010, 10:53 AM
Do animals think about this? We has humans are constantly thinking about umm, death but so far no one has a clue. As we can think about our future we have to come up with a plausible answer to the issue. Original sin may not have been original. But it is in theory a good step towards what we think is the afterlife and redemption.

pefjr
12-15-2010, 11:22 AM
Do animals think about this? other animals?

http://images.free-extras.com/pics/m/monkey_thinking-236.jpg

S.V. Airlie
12-15-2010, 11:24 AM
other animals?

You know bloody well what I mean.

pefjr
12-15-2010, 11:47 AM
You know bloody well what I mean.Hard to tell sometimes on a thread like this, what is myth and what is not.

There is a new spin off christian religion is town. They call themselves Frisbytarians and believe that when they die their soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck there.

S.V. Airlie
12-15-2010, 11:49 AM
Well I was not discussing Homo sapiens

PhaseLockedLoop
12-15-2010, 12:08 PM
Let’s see now –....

Thanks. You've saved me a lot of trouble, and if I'd written it, it would have been ill-tempered. And ill-mannered.

As recently as the '60s, the Vietnam war was celebrated as a war against "godless communism," and since hardly anyone knew a damn thing about communism, it was the "godless" part that set the yahoos bleating. (I mean to say, that most influenced the man-in-the-street).

Osborne Russell
12-15-2010, 12:27 PM
No testicles in heaven, just lots of wings and harp music, one long music lesson. Testicles would lead to distraction and we all know where that lead to, the great downfall.

Testicles are necessary to be a priest, however.


Ever since the, NO testicles in heaven!

Ever since the what?

Allison
12-15-2010, 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by Allison
Ever since the, NO testicles in heaven!

By Osborne Russell
Ever since the what?


Osbourne a late night typo, I live in a very different time zone!
That should have read "then" I was referring to the story of Satan leading the revolt in heaven and him and all his followers being cast out. It must have taken Testicles to revolt against the all powerful and prescient one and after the Bigfella's little purge there wouldn't have been anyone with them left up there, just a lot of harp players.

On a side note, strange that a prescient being like the Bigfella got caught by a revolt and had to put it downm would've thought he'd know from the beginning and being compassionate would've nipped it in the bud so to speak! Interesting!

oznabrag
12-16-2010, 08:58 AM
...
Merry Christmas, Ozzie!

And a Merry Christmas to you, too!