A Sailing Vessel for the Differently Enabled.

[Roger Long]

Those of you who have followed the long sad saga that just concluded may remember that it began for me years ago with a phone call. Someone called to say that he knew someone (I can’t remember if it was a friend or not) in Addison who was setting out to build a sailing vessel to take handicapped people sailing. He wanted to donate the naval architecture and engineering to the project and was calling to ask if that was the kind of thing I did. I told him that it certainly was and he said he would talk to the owner and get back to me.

The man called back about a week later and said that he had spoken the owner. God would provide the necessary inspiration for the project and therefore no naval architecture would be required. I’m not sure if this was his interpretation or the builder’s but it was the last I heard about the project until stories began to appear in the media.

Now that the venture has come to its natural conclusion, I find myself wondering what kind of advice I would have given at the time or how I would approach such a project today. Assuming that the proposed routes would be coastal, which seems most practical and interesting to me for many reasons, I would be very tempted to propose a scow schooner. There is a long forgotten tradition and history of these craft and recovering it would let the project also contribute to rediscovering part of our marine heritage.

The simplicity of a scow schooner would have been very much in keeping with the low budget nature of the effort that God failed to provide sufficient guidance for. One of the nicest things to do on a large sailing vessel is go right up into the bows where power and energy of a sailing vessel are most apparent and the square bow would provide great wheelchair access. These craft were surprisingly fast and were wide by nature which would make for great deck space in a given length. The Coast Guard passenger rules for coastal vessels are highly biased towards wide, shallow craft so certification would be feasible.

Given a free hand with such a design, I would build the bottom and centerboard trunk of heavy steel construction so that the difficult to access portions of the vessel would be strong and long lasting. Ballast would be needed in the bottom and no shaping would be required so only cost and welding considerations would restrict the steel thickness. This is also one structure where ferro-cement might be appropriate.

From about the waterline up, construction would be timber, very much as it would have been done in the 1800’s. Scow schooners often had large deckhouses since they were not craft built with much consideration for grace although many had clipper bow stem heads. Such a deckhouse would make roll in ADA compliant heads easy to include. Add a classic two masted schooner rig with the right paint and detailing and you would have a wonderful evocation of a forgotten part of New England maritime history that surprise some of the other schooners as it sailed past them.

[Harbormaster]

Like this?
http://www.boatingsf.com/photos/masterm/DSC_0116_edited.jpg

[Paul Pless]

The man called back about a week later and said that he had spoken the owner. God would provide the necessary inspiration for the project and therefore no naval architecture would be required. I’m not sure if this was his interpretation or the builder’s but it was the last I heard about the project until stories began to appear in the media.Damn Roger, I've never heard this part of the story before. Two things stand out: One, the fact that Mr. McKay turned down what appears to be an offer for someone to pay for the services of a professional of your competency is absolutely astounding. And two, I now understand better what I thought of as a bit of obsessiveness on your part with the entire fiasco.


Beyond the above, the scow schooner sure does sound like an eminently practical design solution. As far as the aesthetics, I like the look the look of those old working cargo schooners. What could've been. . .

[Roger Long]

I now understand better what I thought of as a bit of obsessiveness on your part

It's not often that a naval architect loses a design contract to God and then is confronted with the fact that he could have done a better job.

[PhaseLockedLoop]

Roger--

What would be the cost of such a vessel? I know, of course, that it depends on how big, how fitted, etc., but if you have, on the top of your head, a rough picture of the thing, what would be the cost, +/- 300%?

[SamSam]

Somewhere I saw some plans for those San Francisco scow schooners. They can take a load and didn't heel too much.


http://www.deepcraft.org/deep/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/scowschooner3.jpg


Here's some 'plans'... http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/large-sailing-scow-5131.html

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/boat-design/2715d1110151457-large-sailing-scow-scow-01.jpg

[Roger Long]

What would be the cost of such a vessel?

I don't have the data to even hazard a guess. (I'd love to be able to say $330K) I'd look at the other side of the equation though. Which would you be more likely to donate to, a vessel being built to an approved design under USCG inspection with actual historical relevance and plans you can look at or this: http://www.rawfaithadventures.com/content/construction ?

[Dick Wynne]

Thanks Roger for the alarming new perspective on the claimed poverty afflicting the project, it was not really of the financial kind. And for the pen-portrait of what might have been, and made a lot more sense. Something like Gas Light (http://gaslightcharters.com) may be?

http://gaslightcharters.com/gallery/image_gallery/images/image_15.jpg

[PhaseLockedLoop]

I don't have the data to even hazard a guess. (I'd love to be able to say $330K) I'd look at the other side of the equation though. Which would you be more likely to donate to, a vessel being built to an approved design under USCG inspection with actual historical relevance and plans you can look at or this: http://www.rawfaithadventures.com/content/construction ?

The question wasn't an obliqe attempt to justify Raw Faith--I certainly wouldn't have anything to do with McKay's folly, or with McKay himself. His venture was clearly delusional. I was just wondering what a big scow-like ship might go for (ballpark figure, generic ship of the type), quite apart from McKay and his crazy approch. I really have no idea--none at all--thus the question. Hundreds of thousands? Millions? That kind of thing.

[Thorne]

I've been sailing on the Alma on SF Bay, and slept aboard her several times on the Delta, and I'll agree that a similar design would be perfect for DE passengers. One huge advantage is minimal heeling under sail, as that would probably be an issue in most usage scenarios.

The alternative would be a large scow-hulled trimaran, as heeling would be even more reduced -- if heel angle proves to be a deal-breaker.

Either way you'd probably have to go for a ramped bathroom, either in a large deck house or below decks. I really know nothing about operating wheelchairs under motion conditions, but I'm sure that studies have been done on this issue. Possibly some sort of locking motorized stairway-railing system, like those sold for older folks to ride up stairways???

Speaking of usage scenarios -- do you propose that the DE folks crew the boat as well as sailing as passengers? If so you'd probably have to go for non-traditional sail rigs, motorized winches, etc. All quite do-able, of course, just non-trad.

[Boston]

how handily does one of those scows sail
gotta admit the one pictured is a nice looking boat

[Thorne]

Well, the Alma's not gonna win any races against narrower boats of the period, and won't point very high. But she's near perfect for those 30-knot days on SF Bay...

Baaack to the topic, I was surprised to see that they make outdoor stair lift devices. So something like this with a wheelchair-frame attachment instead of a seat might be needed for DE folks to go up and down ramps on a boat in a moving seaway -

http://www.lowcost-stairlifts.com/resources/outdoor-cover.jpg
http://www.lowcost-stairlifts.com/outdoor_stairlift.html

They also make full wheelchair lifts for stairways, but I'm not sure it they'd be what you want in this case -
http://www.garaventalift.com/img/ipl/xpress/xpress-finishes2.jpg

Another option is to have all the DE facilities on deck level, and only allow FE (fully-enabled, my how PC we are!) crew belowdecks via the usual ladders/stairs. But that might smack of separatism, and also create safety concerns in bad weather or whatever.

[Canoeyawl]

The Alma is beautifully built.
A most important aspect of that design is to take the ground with a full load, (like fifty or sixty tons?) and the framing is a joy to see.
Today she is significantly underrigged compared to the original layout. I suspect she would leave many behind if rigged as original, with up to maybe 40% more sail area... The park service will have none of that though.

I don't think Gaslight , built of steel as a yacht , is near as strong

edit to add: The park service prides itself on taking disabled passengers on Alma. I have witnessed some interesting embark and disembark procedures.

[Hunky Dory]

Mr. Mckay might be ready for plan B about now.

[Woxbox]

It's not often that a naval architect loses a design contract to God and then is confronted with the fact that he could have done a better job.

I'm still wondering which god McKay is talking to.

There's always room for another gundalow, too. Daytrips on a local river could be quite pleasant.
http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.nhbm.org/media/img/Gundalow0451.jpg&sa=X&ei=aOECTZnFIYaglAfBtujdCQ&ved=0CAQQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNEcJz-B5rFMFCEqynryU3BcbZlRTA

[James McMullen]

I always thought the scow schooner "Nina" was a lovely design. I'd like to have one as a support platform/sleeping dormitory for a whole flock of sail & oar boats.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_rqKn9yxQ1pQ/SUyGw4U0zhI/AAAAAAAAFtE/54w9C1TK7gc/100_1605_300.jpg

[Boatguy1972]

Roger, he's stated that he intends to rebuilt her/build a new ship. Maybe this time he will he'll listen to the professionals...

[Boston]

he's just looking to keep the donation money rolling in if you ask me
clearly he does not have the skills to build a box kite

[Nicholas Scheuer]

I 'm glad I made a special point to see the Alma when I was once in San Francisco on business some years ago. I had long been interested in Scow Schooners and really wanted to see one for real.

Your idea that a scow schooner's deck plan and usual low angle of heel would be well suited for wheelchair mobility makes huge sense to me.

The idea of a thick steel bottom providing a combination of ballast, high structural strength, fabrication simplicity, and low maintenance was once endorsed by Peter Duff (builder of my Shearwater yawl) in a conversation in which I made such a suggestion concerning a "dream boat" many years ago.

Moby Nick

[Nicholas Scheuer]

should have wrote "FLAT, thick steel bottom" in the last pg above.

[McMike]

It's not often that a naval architect loses a design contract to God and then is confronted with the fact that he could have done a better job.

Shhh, dog will hear you . . . .:d:p

[Woxbox]

This canal boat has a steel bottom (the white part) and wood top. The width and depth are actually from the original that was recreated, but it's shorter and, of course, they had to add rails and a canvas top. Oh, and windows in the side of the hull, too. Anyhow, when it was first built I scoffed at the divergence from making a real copy -- but it has prooved to work well as far as keeping maintenance down and business up. It is powered by mules.

http://www.canals.org/siteimages/hmp.jpg

[Bill Griffin]

I just looked at the construction photos in the link Roger posted. I'm just amazed that something like that could be built with an example of a successful and similar sized craft is in the same yard. Looks like another schooner in the background there.
I hope all that energy gets redirected to something not marine.

[Paul Pless]

Given a free hand with such a design, I would build the bottom and centerboard trunk of heavy steel construction. . .

From about the waterline up, construction would be timber. . .Roger, from a practical, how is the transition typically made from a steel bottom to wood topsides? Is a wooden chine bolted to the steel bottom and then traditional frames and planking from there up?

[Roger Long]

Roger, from a practical, how is the transition typically made from a steel bottom to wood topsides?

I don't know yet. I'm sure you will all find out if anyone ever retains me to design such a boat (someone with a good business plan and history of responsible vessel operation, that is). I imagine it would be pretty much as you described.

[David W Pratt]

Didn't God specify gopher wood?

[SchoonerRat]

Roger,

I too was a little curious about your level of interest in Raw Faith. I've never been outbid for a job by God, but I've lost more than my share. I've always been okay with it if the other guy does the job as good as I would have been proud of.

That little tidbit of info has chased away any speck of sympathy I may have once held towards McKay (and there wasn't much there to begin with).

Was not mentioning this sooner a conscious decision, or did the fact just never come up?

With the same expenditure of time and money, and a bit of donated engineering, the end of the story would have been QUITE DIFFERENT!




You'll have to excuse me now. I have a searing pain in my belly. The guy next door says he'll pay for a doctor visit, but I'm gonna trust my life to God! Now where did I put that old rusty Boy Scout knife of mine?

[Roger Long]

I too was a little curious about your level of interest in Raw Faith.

I mentioned the origin of my interest early on in these various threads but it can actually be better understood by looking for my name in the index of this book:

http://yourbooksworld.com/images/Nonfiction/tall-ships-down.jpg

I was professionally involved with the analysis and/or inquiry of three of the five losses discussed but also personally involved in two of them. The sister of a friend died on one of the vessels. The last time I saw the captain of another, he was standing at my drawing board and we were discussing our mutual concern about the stability of his vessel, concerns which the designer and the management didn't seem to be taking as seriously as either of us would have liked. He and the vessel didn't make it back for us to pursue the matter further.

Having a sailing vessel loss unfold slowly before my eyes has been a compelling experience. If it had been up to the owner, the vessel would have been full of young people, some of them in wheelchairs, when the structure failed in conditions far more benign than she could expect to face on the voyage she undertook.

[SchoonerRat]

Having a sailing vessel loss unfold slowly before my eyes has been a compelling experience. If it had been up to the owner, the vessel would have been full of young people, some of them in wheelchairs, when the structure failed in conditions far more benign than she could expect to face on the voyage she undertook.

I didn't come upon the Raw Faith saga until after one of her rescues, I think it was when she lost her sticks. I felt sorry for the guy, but seeing pics of the boat, and later hearing more of her construction, the more I thought "Darwin Award." Many people got an earful from me when they mentioned their admiration of "Captain McKay."

I must have missed the reference to your involvement in Raw Faith, while reading of your involvement in the tallship losses. I can barely imagine looking at the situation from your viewpoint.

Like most, I resent government intrusion into my life. However, the same USCG that made my life miserable every year for my annual inspections did what they could to see that he didn't go to sea with a boatload of kids in wheelchairs. He would have done it in a minute if allowed to.

The average bozo can't just build a plane, and then climb in and take off. I'm not suggesting that boating should be as regulated as flying, but it would be nice if there was a mechanism in place to prevent the next "Captain McKay." From the beginning, Raw Faith was destined to be either a derelict to the chagrin of some poor town, or be lost at sea with possible loss of life. It's difficult to stop a man like McKay without mucking up your own freedoms.

[Tom Hunter]

@schooner rat

The system and laws we have in place worked fairly well with George McKay. He was prevented from loading the boat up with people in wheelchairs. No one died.

I don't know that we need any new regulations or laws to stop people like him. He seems to be the only one like him. Better to just let the story recede into history than to write laws based on the behavior of one stubborn fool.

Not that I disagree with your sentiment, it would have been nice if he were stopped earlier and cheaper.

[OconeePirate]

As far as losing the contract to God... I think this is more like the joke about the guy who kept praying to win the lottery and never did, eventually God told him "I can only do so much, YOU'VE got to buy the ticket!" McKay's ignoring offered wisdom and advice on the construction of his ship is like those that refuse to take advantage of modern medicine because they feel God will cure them.

[Roger Long]

Do you think that guy who called me might have been an angel?

[OconeePirate]

Do you think that guy who called me might have been an angel?

Stranger things have happened. ;)

[SamSam]

Do you think that guy who called me might have been an angel?

No. For a number of reasons.

[Boston]

ya I gotta go with a neggattory on that one as well

[johnw]

It's not often that a naval architect loses a design contract to God and then is confronted with the fact that he could have done a better job.
Well, there's a Maine sense of humor!

[ILikeRust]

It's not often that a naval architect loses a design contract to God and then is confronted with the fact that he could have done a better job.

I can't recall ever seeing anything that more screamed out to be used as a sig line.

[SchoonerRat]

@schooner rat

The system and laws we have in place worked fairly well with George McKay. He was prevented from loading the boat up with people in wheelchairs. No one died.

I don't know that we need any new regulations or laws to stop people like him. He seems to be the only one like him. Better to just let the story recede into history than to write laws based on the behavior of one stubborn fool.

Not that I disagree with your sentiment, it would have been nice if he were stopped earlier and cheaper.
The laws worked worked fairly well in that he wasn't allowed to load his boat up with handicapped kids. It was only luck (and a donated or borrowed EPIRB), that prevented loss of life.

People like McKay are more numerous than I'd like to think. He stood out because of the sheer scope of his project and the magnitude of the PITA he was everywhere he went.

I think we could really use new laws to prevent this kind of thing from happening, I just don't know how it can be done without stepping on the toes of every sane and prudent sailor on the planet.

It's difficult to legislate against stupidity. I guess the best we can hope for is to prevent the stupid from taking passengers for hire, and the Coasties only have enough teeth to be marginally successful at that.

[Roger Long]

I think we could really use new laws to prevent this kind of thing from happening, I just don't know how it can be done without stepping on the toes of every sane and prudent sailor on the planet.

Remember the kind of laws we got in response to the problem of cruise ships and other large vessels dumping their sewage in harbors.

[SchoonerRat]

Remember the kind of laws we got in response to the problem of cruise ships and other large vessels dumping their sewage in harbors.
And don't forget Homeland Security.

Problems like this really gnaw at me. Not only do I feel powerless to do anything about it, but I can't even yell and scream at the people who are screwing the pooch, and letting the McKays of the world run amok. There just isn't an answer.

[Presuming Ed]

How it was done over here: the Jubilee Sailing Trust, who have built two tall ships (well, barques), the Lord Nelson and Tenacious for people of all abilities.

Details here: http://www.jst.org.uk/

http://www.jst.org.uk/files/images/newsimg_dsc_1366a.jpg

[SchoonerRat]

How it was done over here: the Jubilee Sailing Trust, who have built two tall ships (well, barques), the Lord Nelson and Tenacious for people of all abilities.

Details here: http://www.jst.org.uk/


But "Captain McKay" assured me that NOBODY was doing this.

[Roger Long]

But "Captain McKay" assured me that NOBODY was doing this.

Well, nobody was in his case.