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Phillip Allen
11-14-2010, 11:15 AM
I went out last evening just to walk around but did take a rifle with me (40-65 with iron sights). I soon discovered other hunters wandering around and had decided to head back to Sarah’s house when I walked pretty close to one of the hunters and he spoke. He had shot a deer (doe…doe season here) and lost her. I went down to help track her. The blood trail was paltry…something like if one were to cut off a finger…hardly a mortal wound. He had a bolt action .270 and scope…the shot (I forgot to ask) was probably about a 50 yard shot…he had picked up a little piece of meat (about half the size of a small thumb). Most of the trail was very small spatters…probably shaken off as opposed to pouring out. Often 10 feet between spatters.

I guess my point is that as it grew dark, that would be a very hard trail to follow. I would bear that in mind before pulling the trigger and how the heck do you miss a fifty yard shot with that sort of a rig…it is an easy shot for a 30-30 with open sights.

It bothers me that she got away and also I think I might have seen her as I drove up the road to Sarah’s house…a big doe that stopped in heavy brush and turned to look at me as I stopped the truck and looked out the window at her (we eyed one another for about 10 seconds)…maybe 15 feet away. She then moved on with her tail tucked tightly and I drove on

paladin
11-14-2010, 11:40 AM
It seems that the guys with the fanciest equipment are usually the ones that lose the lunch.
I stepped out of the VW van one evening on the way to the hunting area, van drove away, I had my rifle across my shoulder when I stepped off the road and almost headlong into a big buck. I was holding the rifle in place with my left hand and without thinking my right hand drew the .44 and from about 15-20 feet away dropped the buck. I had to wait an hour for the van to come back (no radio or cell phones) and by the time they came around I had the critter cleaned and hanging in a tree.
Sometimes I think rounds like the .270 and similar are too powerful/small diameter to drop the game when a well placed large diameter bullet is good.

Phillip Allen
11-14-2010, 11:46 AM
It seems that the guys with the fanciest equipment are usually the ones that lose the lunch.
I stepped out of the VW van one evening on the way to the hunting area, van drove away, I had my rifle across my shoulder when I stepped off the road and almost headlong into a big buck. I was holding the rifle in place with my left hand and without thinking my right hand drew the .44 and from about 15-20 feet away dropped the buck. I had to wait an hour for the van to come back (no radio or cell phones) and by the time they came around I had the critter cleaned and hanging in a tree.
Sometimes I think rounds like the .270 and similar are too powerful/small diameter to drop the game when a well placed large diameter bullet is good.

I would add to that: that lots of folks enter the woods unprepared for the task at hand...for instanse: buying a very expencive scope will not make the bullet go any farther nor hit any harder nor does it make the target bigger and it certainly does not excuse bad habits

I will add also: I think he felt bad and promised to return with sunup and pick up the hunt again. He thanked me profusely for my help. I told him not to worry about it that I considered it an obligation to him AND the deer.

htom
11-14-2010, 11:46 AM
I hate it when that happens. I'd rather have a day with a dozen clear misses than one wounding.

Phillip Allen
11-14-2010, 11:49 AM
me too...and I ain't even the one that shot the deer

paladin
11-14-2010, 11:49 AM
I will always pass a shot if there is the slightest doubt. I've known hunters to buy their rifles and maybe fire them once or twice before going hunting...then add a scope....and never align the sights, or let the rifle sit in a closet or gun rack for a year or two before going hunting again, and never check the sights.

mommicked
11-14-2010, 11:59 AM
Our deer are small and plentiful. We can take 6 per season, and rifle season is about 13 weeks long. Deer here are viewed with about the same respect you'd show rabbits or smaller game, due to the numbers we see. That being said, I hate to lose a deer.

It has been my experience that when you find meat or bone, and little blood, you almost never find the deer. The presence of meat or bone tells me low leg shot. Caliber is irrelevant when shot placement is poor.

I've taken more deer with a .243 than any other caliber, including my longest shot, which I freely admit was a fluke or a stupid stunt, and not something I'd like to repeat, even though I got the deer.

The problem I see most often is a fellow spends a lot of money on a gun, scope, gear, and all, but fails to take the time to a) properly zero the gun and b) get good with that gun. I see so many guys who want to bore sight a gun and hunt with it, or almost as bad, sight it in at 25 yards and call it 'good enuff fer huntin'. Being a tad off at 25 yards can be a missed or worse wounded deer at 50-100 yards.

I've taken deer with a number of calibers, from .243 on up to muzzle loaders (.50 cal mainly). The heaviest centerfire I've taken a deer with is a .30-06. Any of em work if placed properly.

Canoeyawl
11-14-2010, 12:06 PM
That seems to happen around here quite a bit, it's always poachers though. The wounded ones seem to migrate over to our property to die a slow death.
I can often spot them with help from the vultures. Kind of a nasty deal to carry out a bloated, fetid carcass and dispose of it before it attacts too many coyotes. Not to mention the emotional twinge thinking about the slow death and the wee babes left behind.

It gives the mighty "hunters" a bad name. "Oh jeese Louie it's getting dark, we better give it up..."

marshcat
11-14-2010, 03:44 PM
Sounds like the guy needs one of these (http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_101299_325007004_325000000_325007000?chann el=froogle&mr:trackingCode=C65C90AB-03A7-DF11-904F-002219319097&mr:referralID=NA).
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/739342.jpg

Although I agree that waiting for better shots is the best approach.

What I don't understand is why the guys that probably object the most to government intervention in their private lives think nothing of walking on to my private property without permission.

I have not posted the property because the property line is long and goes through quite a bit of open field. I had hoped hunters would still respect my property rights even if it's not posted.

I saw one guy at the far end of the field on Veteran's day, and when he saw me coming he turned around and disappeared into the woods. By the time I got there he was long gone. If he felt like he wasn't doing anything wrong because my land is not posted, why did he hide?

Phillip Allen
11-14-2010, 07:27 PM
Sounds like the guy needs one of these (http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_101299_325007004_325000000_325007000?chann el=froogle&mr:trackingCode=C65C90AB-03A7-DF11-904F-002219319097&mr:referralID=NA).
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/739342.jpg

Although I agree that waiting for better shots is the best approach.

What I don't understand is why the guys that probably object the most to government intervention in their private lives think nothing of walking on to my private property without permission.

I have not posted the property because the property line is long and goes through quite a bit of open field. I had hoped hunters would still respect my property rights even if it's not posted.

I saw one guy at the far end of the field on Veteran's day, and when he saw me coming he turned around and disappeared into the woods. By the time I got there he was long gone. If he felt like he wasn't doing anything wrong because my land is not posted, why did he hide?

SOME STILL ASK...ON THE OTHER HAND, i HAVE TAKEN AN A$$ CHEWING AND THREATS WHILE ON PUBLIC LAND BY ONE OF OUR IMPORTED YANKEES

sorry about the yelling...I was looking elswhere and didn't know the caps lock was on...and I don't want to re type it now

paladin
11-14-2010, 07:36 PM
I once had a dude taking a shot at an elk (he missed) on my property...when I confronted him he made a vague threat that he had the law on his side as it was gov't land, I shot the crap outta his one or two year old range rover with a .357....took his gun and shoes, and chased him down the road, called the sheriff who brought a tow truck and picked up the weapon and gun. I understand the sheriff let him run at the mouth for half an hour in front of witnesses, let him sign a complaint, then charged him with poaching on private property....cost him a bunch to get his gun and car back. He was gonna abandon them until the JP made it not so cost effective. We've had a few of those over the years, including some that wanna hunt buffalo without asking. In the last 10 years Darrell has managed to recover several vehicles, firearms, and a helluva lotta poached meat. We give it all to support the local old folks homes. They need all they can get as I figger I may end up there.....

BrianW
11-14-2010, 07:43 PM
Sometimes I think rounds like the .270 and similar are too powerful/small diameter to drop the game when a well placed large diameter bullet is good.

I can feel the same way occasionally, although as mentioned, .223 and .243 diameters are often used with much success. I think bullet construction is much more critical in these calibers. You need something that will expand reliably, but not too much due to the high velocity at such close range.

I'd prefer a .243 Winchester to a 270 Winchester anyday. Mainly because just the thought of a 27O Win is enough to bore me to death. :) Take the 243 Win, Ackley Improve it, and now we're talking...

Black-Jack
11-14-2010, 07:54 PM
What I don't understand is why the guys that probably object the most to government intervention in their private lives think nothing of walking on to my private property without permission.

I have not posted the property because the property line is long and goes through quite a bit of open field. I had hoped hunters would still respect my property rights even if it's not posted.




good luck with that,

hunters who run dogs are the worst, when confronted that the land is private and posted the answer is always " well dogs cant read" . and my reply is "but you can and you are letting your dogs hunt on posted property. My next step is to either shoot your dogs if they molest my livestock or animals and /or call the sheriff and game warden and report you as an armed trespasser and poacher."

purri
11-14-2010, 08:29 PM
I can feel the same way occasionally, although as mentioned, .223 and .243 diameters are often used with much success. I think bullet construction is much more critical in these calibers. You need something that will expand reliably, but not too much due to the high velocity at such close range.

I'd prefer a .243 Winchester to a 270 Winchester anyday. Mainly because just the thought of a 27O Win is enough to bore me to death. :) Take the 243 Win, Ackley Improve it, and now we're talking...
Better still take the 257Roberts and Ackley Improve it.

Phillip Allen
11-14-2010, 08:40 PM
for local use...a plain old 30-30 with open sights is the be all and end all of white-tail deer cartridges...use other stuff if it blows your skirt up but they aren't any improvement on that 30-30

and Brian...PO ACkley didn't improve anything...he was creating magazine articles to write every month...that .243 will work fine as Winchester designed it (I managed to bull's eye a ground hog [head shot] at 400 yards with mine and a plain old weaver K-12 power scope)...I'm pretty sure their engineers understood what they were doing...all improving does is put one's "scent" marks on a fince post...you'll understand when you get old enough...I had the same trouble

paladin
11-14-2010, 08:53 PM
I still have one rifle chambered for the .257 Roberts, and it's a Winchester rifle, full length rifle, not carbine, with the rear sight replaced by a Williams rifle sight. I have two more original high wall actions that need to be finished into something.

Phillip Allen
11-14-2010, 09:01 PM
I still have one rifle chambered for the .257 Roberts, and it's a Winchester rifle, full length rifle, not carbine, with the rear sight replaced by a Williams rifle sight. I have two more original high wall actions that need to be finished into something.

I vote 40-72 for the high wall

paladin
11-14-2010, 09:11 PM
I have all the wood precut....for at least 30 years to finish these weapons. Maybe I should, and make one high wall a .338 Lapua.
I needed something for my Grand Nephew who hunts with the .50 flintlock Hawkin I gave him, and he got his first deer with it.....so I was thinking of doing a low wall into a .257 Roberts for him.

mommicked
11-15-2010, 01:04 AM
for local use...a plain old 30-30 with open sights is the be all and end all of white-tail deer cartridges...use other stuff if it blows your skirt up but they aren't any improvement on that 30-30

and Brian...PO ACkley didn't improve anything...he was creating magazine articles to write every month...that .243 will work fine as Winchester designed it (I managed to bull's eye a ground hog [head shot] at 400 yards with mine and a plain old weaver K-12 power scope)...I'm pretty sure their engineers understood what they were doing...all improving does is put one's "scent" marks on a fince post...you'll understand when you get old enough...I had the same trouble

Now I love my 2 Marlin .30-30's, they are great guns and a good caliber. But the .30-06's I own will do anything the .30-30 will, and at longer range without holding over. Or I can load it down into 'varmint' range in a pinch.

My 7mm Rem Mag shoots flatter still. Sometimes a flat shooting rifle IS a good thing.

I love my .30-30 Marlins, but if we took the 'nuthin better come along since' attitude, why, we still be sailing around in wooden boats for cryin' out loud!

RFNK
11-15-2010, 02:35 AM
Classic example of why some of us will never understand the enjoyment you guys get from this blood sport. Pity the guy didn't shoot his own leg instead.
Rick

purri
11-15-2010, 03:59 AM
^ A conflation of self serving prejudices.

RFNK
11-15-2010, 04:59 AM
Really? Self serving? No, just hate the idea of animals suffering, and bewildered by the fact that people can continue to pursue such activities for fun knowing that this consequence is common. Prejudice? Maybe but how prejudiced is the view that no other species has the right to be protected from the injustices of our own species? We all have our prejudices.
Rick

BarnacleGrim
11-15-2010, 05:41 AM
Fair enough taking down an animal to feed yourself and your family, it's another thing to have a bunch of people running around the woods acting like it's a video game. That's a blood sport.


Sounds like the guy needs one of these (http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_101299_325007004_325000000_325007000?chann el=froogle&mr:trackingCode=C65C90AB-03A7-DF11-904F-002219319097&mr:referralID=NA).
Why there's not a tracking dog on the scene is what I want to know.

purri
11-15-2010, 05:44 AM
^ zackery!

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 06:37 AM
Really? Self serving? No, just hate the idea of animals suffering, and bewildered by the fact that people can continue to pursue such activities for fun knowing that this consequence is common. Prejudice? Maybe but how prejudiced is the view that no other species has the right to be protected from the injustices of our own species? We all have our prejudices.
Rick

I think you are reading your own misunderstanding into this incident...all is not as you imagine it to be

BrianW
11-15-2010, 06:53 AM
RFNK,

I agree with your sentiment towards wounding animals. It's the worst possible scenario when hunting.

Mike Field
11-15-2010, 06:55 AM
In the last 10 years Darrell has managed to recover several vehicles, firearms, and a helluva lotta poached meat. We give it all to support the local old folks homes.....

What is it about Yanks and guns? Chuck would be one of the few I'd trust with a gun these days, but I'm not so sure even about him twenty years ago....

By and large, are guns penis substitutes for chaps with erectile dysfunction or something?

Along with many other non-Yanks, I just don't get it.... :confused:

RFNK
11-15-2010, 07:03 AM
I think you are reading your own misunderstanding into this incident...all is not as you imagine it to be I'm sure that's true Phillip. But I grew up in the country and i've seen a lot of what so-called hunters have done and do to wildlife. Today I'm reading the Wooden Boat Forum and I hear yet another idiot who's blown a bit of some animal's leg or whatever off. Other hunters point out that the bit of flesh found on the ground indicates that this deer was probably shot in the leg. How do they know that? From experience - it's very common for hunters to wound animals. Yes, I'm prejudiced against these activities but I have every right to be so. I'm sorry if my views offend but I find it at least equally offensive that this stuff goes on anywhere - I didn't ask to have this thrown in my face today. i just looked to see what wounded the deer - okay, I should have guessed. But I think what you might be getting at is that this particular guy feels badly about what he's done is now trying, with your help, to improve a bad situation. I applaud that - no question, so good on you and him. For me, it would be a hunting career ending experience but that's just me - I acknowledge that.
Rick

PS Mike, I don't think `the Yanks' have this on their own at all. There are many countries where guns and hunting are common, highly regarded and defended so strongly. There are so very many Americans that are opposed to blood sports, gun ownership etc.

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 07:05 AM
What is it about Yanks and guns? Chuck would be one of the few I'd trust with a gun these days, but I'm not so sure even about him twenty years ago....

By and large, are guns penis substitutes for chaps with erectile dysfunction or something?

Along with many other non-Yanks, I just don't get it.... :confused:

your post is at odds with itself...you say you don't get it but then say WHY those you don't understand they are doing it...extentions are a buzz word from folks with their own agenda...be careful to develope your own words of discription within your own understanding

BrianW
11-15-2010, 07:21 AM
By and large, are guns penis substitutes for chaps with erectile dysfunction or something?

Not in my experience. Your analogy is extremely popular with the anti-gun crowd, and that makes me wonder too.

paladin
11-15-2010, 07:26 AM
Mike..I was taught at a very young age as we needed the weapons to hunt for food. My dad was in the army during the war, and afterwards he made U.S. about $25 a week as a laborer....I hunted small game with my .22 rifle, prairie chickens, rabbits, quail etc. And mom and Gramma had a large garden. And I hunted like this into the mid 1950's..It wasn't a fascination with guns, it was a tool that I used as much as a shovel or pitchfork. I might add that my mom was a crack shot also.

Paul Pless
11-15-2010, 08:07 AM
It's the worst possible scenario when hunting.41 excepted :d

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 08:10 AM
41 excepted :d

okay Paul...it's all fun and games untill the goldfish dies

:)

Paul Pless
11-15-2010, 08:14 AM
The deer hunters that bother me the most are those that hunt with a bow just to extend their deer season. Dedicated bow hunters are often some of the best hunters out there, but the guy that just wants to add three weeks to his hunting season is the reason we see so many uncollected deer with arrows in them. A wounded deer in the South at least, will often flee to a low land swamp or river bank. I can't tell you how many deer carcasses I've seen wash up on our river bank or from the boat with arrows in non vital spots.

RFNK
11-15-2010, 08:15 AM
Not going to ask ......
Rick

Iceboy
11-15-2010, 08:46 AM
Fair enough taking down an animal to feed yourself and your family, it's another thing to have a bunch of people running around the woods acting like it's a video game. That's a blood sport.


Why there's not a tracking dog on the scene is what I want to know.

I took a doe just around dark last tuesday. Double lung shot with an arrow. I shot at the very last speck of light and knew I made a good shot. I practice year round with my bow and know where every arrow goes. That deer went over 200 yards into a marshy area but I knew it was hit good and I chose to find it that night before the coyotes or bears got to it. Besides it was nearly 60 degrees and I didn't wish to let it spoil over night. I have a blood tracking light and they work great. This is the first year I used it. Usually it is a Coleman lantern and a roll of toilet paper. Leave a square wherever you see blood. It disolves after the first rain or snow so no litter is obvious. It took 3 hours to find that deer and get it out of the swamp. All after dark. The reason for no tracking dog is that it is illegal to use any type of dog for deer hunting in my state. A dog may save some game from being lost but the abuse from jerks misusing dogs to run deer is too great.
I try to get my deer during the bow season and spend the rifle season chasing trespassers. It is amazing the amount of people who don't ask or could care less about private property. I get thier picture and back tag number and let the sheriff have them.

Joe (SoCal)
11-15-2010, 09:09 AM
Yuck I hate venison, too gamey, pain in the ass to get. Sheesh you got to get up, get a gun, wait in the cold woods, aim shoot, track, drag the carcass, gut, butcher, freeze oy man what a PITA. Give me a good porterhouse cooked medium rare at a nice steak house ( or my local foodtown ) and a nice cabernet ;)

By the way with all this deer hunting going can I ask how much venison meat do you hunters choke down ? You got to be making venison burgers, steaks, BBQ, sausages, muffins, pies, protien shakes, beer, cereal, bleeeeak

BarnacleGrim
11-15-2010, 09:19 AM
The reason for no tracking dog is that it is illegal to use any type of dog for deer hunting in my state. A dog may save some game from being lost but the abuse from jerks misusing dogs to run deer is too great.
With that reasoning you might as well ban guns, because the chance of jerks misusing them is so great. I like your hunting style, though, especially the hunting you do during rifle season.


Yuck I hate venison, too gamey, pain in the ass to get. Sheesh you got to get up, get a gun, wait in the cold woods, aim shoot, track, drag the carcass, gut, butcher, freeze oy man what a PITA.
I bet you haven't tried rock ptarmigan.



By the way with all this deer hunting going can I ask how much venison meat do you hunters choke down ? You got to be making venison burgers, steaks, BBQ, sausages, muffins, pies, protien shakes, beer, cereal, bleeeeak
Yes, that's the idea with elk around here.

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 09:29 AM
Barnacle, dogs around here are run in packs...they would run deer year around if they could...then some "hunter" who's not hunting but, rather, sitting on his butt smoking will shoot at a running target and keep sitting if it don't fall down in front of him...jit's more complicated than that but I just herd the plumber drive up so I'm out the door...

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 09:34 AM
guess it wasn't him...

also I will add that you don't want to come across a deer that's been run into a fence then had it's guts drug out through it's butt...that's what dogs do in packs.

mommicked
11-15-2010, 09:38 AM
Urban expansion and super highways are a far greater threat to wildlife than my rifle.
My ancestors hunted. Like it or not, so did yours. I was raised to hunt like my ancestors. We raised gardens too, though mine didn't do so well this year. A boy down the road gives me eggs from his chickens, and asks if I have any deer meat to share. This isn't 1620, but as much as things have changed, so have many of them remained the same. The deer, bear, and fish roam the marshes. Boats still run up and down the creek looking for shellfish. The belly gets feeling empty. And I participate in nature. Not just a spectator wearing goggles and fluorescent clothes; I participate. I remove animals to feed my young. Just like my ancestors, just like the wolf.
I took my 2 young sons 'hunting' the other afternoon. We carried a loaded gun on property we had permission to hunt. We never fired a shot, but I taught them 5 new plants (I hope they remember), how to see deer tracks, and to respect the graves of the landowner we encountered on the back side of the property. I'd have gladly let them shoot a squirrel, had the right opportunity been there, but it wasn't, and we had a wonderful walk in the woods.

Urban expansion and super highways are a far greater threat to wildlife, and my family, than rifles.

BrianW
11-15-2010, 09:39 AM
I draw the line at deer ice cream.

Paul Pless
11-15-2010, 09:43 AM
Barnacle, dogs around here are run in packs...they would run deer year around if they could...then some "hunter" who's not hunting but, rather, sitting on his butt smoking will shoot at a running target and keep sitting if it don't fall down in front of him...jit's more complicated than that The same thing can be done with a four wheeler. . . or even on foot, just can't flush as much land on foot. Not my kinda of hunting either.

paladin
11-15-2010, 09:44 AM
Deerskin makes great moccasins, antler good for knife handles and chipping flint.....

erster
11-15-2010, 09:50 AM
I took my 2 young sons 'hunting' the other afternoon. We carried a loaded gun on property we had permission to hunt. We never fired a shot, but I taught them 5 new plants (I hope they remember), how to see deer tracks, and to respect the graves of the landowner we encountered on the back side of the property
Bingo, while fishing to assist in our food bill before the dogooders completely ban hook and line, this was yet another sidebar to share with people experiencing their first time on the water.

The Great Egret was surely not sunbathing in the sawgrass. He also was hunting and killing for survival, taking the right "shot" at the appropiate time too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC08871.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC08867.jpg

Joe (SoCal)
11-15-2010, 09:50 AM
Ok anouther deer hunting question. The common hunter argument is to put food on my table cheeper. Ok I kinda get that and can respect it. But how much do you all spend on Your .243 Winchester or 270 Winchester with Ackley yadda yadda ( insert obscene gun lust verbs and techno mumbo jumbo here ) , Leica super scope, blood tacking flashlights, Calvin Klein camo underwear, hat, mittens, EMS folding extractable carbon fiber deer blind, Orvis dog pick em up truck bed, Ralph Lauren deer scent, Smith Hawkins raised burled walnut gun rack in your Eddie Bauer limited SUV with the deer tracker sport package?


I only ask this because I had to walk 30 acres of wooded mountainside this weekend for real estate and I had to keep shouting so I wasn't shot by some drunk ( 10 year aged Famous Grouse single malt ) hunter who heard us rustling in the woods. Benefit to me is I get to see all the flora and fawna and natural splendor as all you hunters, except I get paid for it and don't have to drag and gut anything ;)

BrianW
11-15-2010, 09:53 AM
Too much $$$. Now stop it, before the wife reads this. :)

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 09:53 AM
Ok anouther deer hunting question. The common hunter argument is to put food on my table cheeper. Ok I kinda get that and can respect it. But how much do you all spend on Your .243 Winchester or 270 Winchester with Ackley yadda yadda ( insert obscene gun lust verbs and techno mumbo jumbo here ) , Leica super scope, blood tacking flashlights, Calvin Klein camo underwear, hat, mittens, EMS folding extractable carbon fiber deer blind, Orvis dog pick em up truck bed, Ralph Lauren deer scent, Smith Hawkins raised burled walnut gun rack in your Eddie Bauer limited SUV with the deer tracker sport package?

most spend too much...not all, but most

hunting/the food it can produce, adds a demention to one's life...some hunters feel more connected and enjoy the challange. My daughter has too many deer on her jplace and asked folks to shoot a few to keep em out of the horses way

Paul Pless
11-15-2010, 09:56 AM
Ok anouther deer hunting question. The common hunter argument is to put food on my table cheeper. Ok I kinda get that and can respect it. Not always cheaper. Another more common hunter argument is that its a way of life that allows an individual or family to commune with the land, and the animals that live on it and their friends and families. There can be a lot of tradition wrapped up in it.

erster
11-15-2010, 09:59 AM
Ok anouther deer hunting question. The common hunter argument is to put food on my table cheeper. Ok I kinda get that and can respect it. But how much do you all spend on Your .243 Winchester or 270 Winchester with Ackley yadda yadda ( insert obscene gun lust verbs and techno mumbo jumbo here ) , Leica super scope, blood tacking flashlights, Calvin Klein camo underwear, hat, mittens, EMS folding extractable carbon fiber deer blind, Orvis dog pick em up truck bed, Ralph Lauren deer scent, Smith Hawkins raised burled walnut gun rack in your Eddie Bauer limited SUV with the deer tracker sport package?
There is no hormone additives and rarely any fat content. Any fat gets culled out because of the nasty taste anyway. We will actually add some pork butts to the hamburger and even sausage meats. Also in deer hunting you are actually keeping the herd from inbreeding too in a measured way. Read up on areas that have been developed which has also caused herds to be isolated on limited parcels. This has caused open sores which creates disease and death as just one issue. Limited land to roam also causes certain species of trees to become further limited as they eat seedlings too. Large turkey population has also caused harm to large forrests too as a spin off of their food sources.

BrianW
11-15-2010, 10:00 AM
I know I've spent more on a single camera lens, than any rifle I've ever bought.

Crap, SWMBO might see this too! ;)

mommicked
11-15-2010, 10:05 AM
Catch 22 Joe, if we don't use good equipment, we get called unethical. If we use good equipment, we're wasting money that could've bought us food. Either way, I'll be hunting because its who I am.

I can motor easier than I can sail, but sometimes I really prefer to do it 'the hard way'. I can buy a boat easier than I can build it, same with knives. But life is a journey, and I like taking part in the experience of it. I don't hate deer, I rather like them. They are beautiful, fun to watch, but also they run in front of my car, and happen to taste like meat! They share the woods with me. I feed them sometimes. Sometimes they feed me. We're like family in the woods, he belongs there and so do I. It's complicated to me, and yet simple.

BTW, we make most of ours into hamburger ourselves. We use deer burger about like you'd use hamburger, and are always finding new ways to eat it. I sometimes use the antlers to make neat stuff too, though I am more likely to shoot a doe for food than wait for a buck with antlers. Chilli, Tacos, spaghetti, meatloaf, fajitas, charcoaled steak, deer-b-cue on a bun with swiss (fries, kosher pickle and a cold draft beer). The poor critters are walking meat markets. We eat about 2 deer a year. That's about a 1 1/2 lb serving once a week, as I yield about 20-25 lbs per deer.

I also find it funny than many folks get all worked up about killing deer. But they eat shrimp by the Dozens, with glee! Crabs, oysters and fish too. The deer is pretty, the shrimp is ugly. By that logic we should only feed pretty people, and let the ugly ones die. Pretty screwy logic to me, thinking that only pretty things are important.

Sadly, as a last note, just as a sailor will occasionally capsize, or a boat builder occasionally make a mistake in boat building, sometimes hunters WILL make a mistake too. We just get called on the carpet a whole lot harder than a soccer player or a rock star.

BarnacleGrim
11-15-2010, 10:07 AM
Barnacle, dogs around here are run in packs...they would run deer year around if they could...then some "hunter" who's not hunting but, rather, sitting on his butt smoking will shoot at a running target and keep sitting if it don't fall down in front of him...jit's more complicated than that but I just herd the plumber drive up so I'm out the door...
You mean people have dogs running in packs. In Sweden all dogs must be kept on a leash or at an equivalent level of obedience in areas with game from Mars 1 to August 20. The owner is always culpable for the dog's actions, whether the owner has control over the dog or not. It sounds obvious, but I don't know if it's common in other legal systems.

A couple of years ago I went chasing poachers with a relative of mine, a Norwegian cattle farmer. The bastard was sitting on a stub with his elkhound running around the heifers flushing hares. In the midst of the argument a hare came running right behind the poacher's back. Epic hunting fail, I could swear it said "what's up, doc?" :D

Joe (SoCal)
11-15-2010, 10:07 AM
I took my 2 young sons 'hunting' the other afternoon. We carried a loaded gun on property we had permission to hunt. We never fired a shot, but I taught them 5 new plants (I hope they remember), how to see deer tracks, and to respect the graves of the landowner we encountered on the back side of the property. I'd have gladly let them shoot a squirrel, had the right opportunity been there, but it wasn't, and we had a wonderful walk in .

I frequently hike with my daughter and girlfriend we come across the same things just don't need to shoot anything except my camera ;)

Including the 1700' cemetery

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m320/fosterhere/18702a64.png

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m320/fosterhere/photo-277.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m320/fosterhere/photo-1466.jpg

We even see dear occasionally ;)

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m320/fosterhere/14291222.jpg

Joe (SoCal)
11-15-2010, 10:19 AM
Now oysters yum, shrimp yum, just my pallet not passing judgement.

Oyster I'll gladly show you a good steak next time ya make it to Yankee land ;)

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m320/fosterhere/9ed64a7b.png

All for the price of a good high optics scope

Now that looks yummy. But I can't eat meat every day, I mean I like beef but I can't have beef tacos, hamburgers, chilli yadda yadda yadda all the time - hey but that's just me

Canoeyawl
11-15-2010, 10:19 AM
(11-15) 06:57 PST SONOMA -- A man out hunting with his 11-year-old son and two friends was accidentally shot and killed in Sonoma, authorities said.
Daniel Downs, 44, of Napa (http://topics.sfgate.com/topics/Napa,_California) was found shot to death near 3000 Highway 37 in Sonoma at about 4:15 p.m. Sunday, said Sonoma County (http://topics.sfgate.com/topics/Sonoma_County,_California) sheriff's Lt. Steve Brown.
Downs was pheasant hunting with his son and two friends when the shooting occurred, near Highway 121 and the Infineon Raceway (http://topics.sfgate.com/topics/Infineon_Raceway), authorities said.
Officials did not release details about the circumstances that led up to the shooting, which is under investigation by sheriff's investigators and the state Department of Fish and Game.
E-mail Henry K. Lee at hlee@sfchronicle.com.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/11/15/BAP81GC9VS.DTL#ixzz15MfhZ87Q

Joe (SoCal)
11-15-2010, 10:21 AM
I know I've spent more on a single camera lens, than any rifle I've ever bought.

Crap, SWMBO might see this too! ;)

see all my photos are shot with my cell phone ;) but I do appreciate your photos BIG TIME keep spending and I won't tell the Mrs ;)

erster
11-15-2010, 10:25 AM
Oyster I'll gladly show you a good steak next time ya make it to Yankee land

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will feed himself and his family the rest of their lives. HEHE! Pictures later....

Joe (SoCal)
11-15-2010, 10:35 AM
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will feed himself and his family the rest of their lives. HEHE! Pictures later....


Oh man I would love to eat up your bounty I've seen you post, I LOVE FISH and all things from the water.
But man I just can't get into fishing. I've tried, it's just boring as hell.

Almost every time I tell any guy I've got a boat they immediately ask "Do you fish ? " When I respond with na don't fish they look at me like I'm nuts...... Buuut but ya got a boat. Then I explain that's it a sail boat and I kinda like just sailing with out the agony of fishing. Now after a good day of fishing I love to go to my local fish monger pick up a nice clean filet and cook it up yum :)

paladin
11-15-2010, 11:44 AM
I've been lucky and the farthest any of my game managed after hitting it was about 50 yards, with one exception, a damn buffalo bull. I hit him with the .444 and he stopped, turned around, and came back at me. I got two more rounds in him before he stopped. Until the third round hit him and he slowed a few steps there was no sign of slowing at all, and all three rounds were in the "kill" zone.

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 11:46 AM
I've been lucky and the farthest any of my game managed after hitting it was about 50 yards, with one exception, a damn buffalo bull. I hit him with the .444 and he stopped, turned around, and came back at me. I got two more rounds in him before he stopped. Until the third round hit him and he slowed a few steps there was no sign of slowing at all, and all three rounds were in the "kill" zone.

I expect that "non effect" was discouraging

J P
11-15-2010, 12:26 PM
The deer hunters that bother me the most are those that hunt with a bow just to extend their deer season.

I also have disdain for those who abuse the ‘Permit to Hunt From a Vehicle’ (PTHFV) here in Montana. These special permits are intended to provide hunting opportunity for truly disabled people. They are too often, and too easily, issued to people who get a doctor to sign off on their “disability”. It’s usually just an excuse for these a-holes (I wouldn’t call them “hunters”) to take the easiest way to get an antlerless elk. Basically they can shoot ANY elk—bull, cow, bambi—from a road.





It is amazing the amount of people who don't ask or could care less about private property.

Indeed. This year in my ‘neighborhood’ a guy (with a PTHFV) got busted for taking a deer and a yearling elk on private property without permission. The deer was probably shot on my property though he said he was only retrieving the wounded animal. He was seen on my land without any hunter orange on – a detail that didn’t sit well with the game warden. I didn’t witness the deer incident but the next day I watched the same guy dress out and load the elk into a truck on the neighbors land. He certainly didn’t appear to be too physically “disabled” then; ethically disabled for sure, turns out he didn't have permission to hunt on anyones property. The elk was confiscated and he was written up for several violations. Jerk. ... and hunters whine about the wolves. Gimme a break.

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 12:31 PM
I also have disdain for those who abuse the ‘Permit to Hunt From a Vehicle’ (PTHFV) here in Montana. These special permits are intended to provide hunting opportunity for truly disabled people. They are too often, and too easily, issued to people who get a doctor to sign off on their “disability”. It’s usually just an excuse for these a-holes (I wouldn’t call them “hunters”) to take the easiest way to get an antlerless elk. Basically they can shoot ANY elk—bull, cow, bambi—from a road.






Indeed. This year in my ‘neighborhood’ a guy (with a PTHFV) got busted for taking a deer and a yearling elk on private property without permission. The deer was probably shot on my property though he said he was only retrieving the wounded animal. He was seen on my land without any hunter orange on – a detail that didn’t sit well with the game warden. I didn’t witness the deer incident but the next day I watched the same guy dress out and load the elk into a truck on the neighbors land. He certainly didn’t appear to be too physically “disabled” then; ethically disabled for sure, turns out he didn't have permission to hunt on anyones property. The elk was confiscated and he was written up for several violations. Jerk. ... and hunters whine about the wolves. Gimme a break.


I feel that the reason I spent quite a bit of time trying to help the guy find his deer is to counter the townies who come out and blast away from the Escalad cab...the guy I was helping had asked a long time earlier to hunt on the two properties involved...he did it the right way

paladin
11-15-2010, 12:39 PM
My general rule was if someone asked permission, and I looked their weapon over and it was well cared for etc, and a few questions were answered about competency, then they got permission. Sadly we have had to reverse our decisions from a liability standpoint.
A couple/three years ago we discussed how to handle it so that my nephew felt comfortable with a couple pre teens in the neighborhood. It is now a "private hunting club" and it takes a bit to become a member. Anyone must show up at the range at least 30% of scheduled events during the year to shoot skeet or practice/align sights on the range so the other guys can observe how you do....so far, so good...

J P
11-15-2010, 01:22 PM
I feel that the reason I spent quite a bit of time trying to help the guy find his deer is to counter the townies who come out and blast away from the Escalad cab...the guy I was helping had asked a long time earlier to hunt on the two properties involved...he did it the right way

Good deal Philip.

I've had to deal with a lot of 'bad apples' on my place over the years. Unfortunately they are the reason I, and all the other property owners around my place, don't allow hunting anymore. I'm not against hunting (for food) but I've witnessed and had to deal with an awful lot of really poor judgment from hunters. Some of them see those critters and somehow they seem to get confused about where roads go, and what a fence or gate might imply, and reading comprehension is lost for complicated signage like NO HUNTING.

I did once help a bow hunter retrieve a wounded deer that he illegally shot on my land from the road. I was pissed (angry) but at least he asked for permission to retrieve it so I gave him a hand. Told him to take it elsewhere to gut it lest my dogs get into the gut pile. Gawd I hate that. That guy startled the crap outta me when he first approached me. I was working on my house at the time. Had my earplugs in, head down, ripping some plywood with a Skilsaw. Set the saw down, looked up and there just a few feet in front of me was this scruffy looking sweaty guy in camo, with a big knife on his belt, breathing hard and looking kind of wild eyed. I wasn't aware that it was opening day of bow season and and he didn't have a rifle or bow to made him 'look' like a hunter so I was defensive ... started reaching for a razor sharp slick I had at hand. Fortunately he talked quick. Damn sneaky bow hunters. He got the drop on me.

Iceboy
11-15-2010, 02:32 PM
Ok anouther deer hunting question. The common hunter argument is to put food on my table cheeper. Ok I kinda get that and can respect it. But how much do you all spend on Your .243 Winchester or 270 Winchester with Ackley yadda yadda ( insert obscene gun lust verbs and techno mumbo jumbo here ) , Leica super scope, blood tacking flashlights, Calvin Klein camo underwear, hat, mittens, EMS folding extractable carbon fiber deer blind, Orvis dog pick em up truck bed, Ralph Lauren deer scent, Smith Hawkins raised burled walnut gun rack in your Eddie Bauer limited SUV with the deer tracker sport package?

I do freely admit that during the bow hunt I spend a lot of money staying hidden and scent free. Quite a bit on items that are really not necessary to attain meat alone. It is a hobby that also provides food and relaxation. The relaxation part is priceless so I really don't care what it costs. The food part isn't absolutely necessary but I don't waste anything that I harvest. Rifle season doesn't really cost all that much. The rifle I hunt with was passed down by a relative that purchased it new in 1907. There have been several hundred deer taken with that rifle so I imagine that per deer it is fairly cheap. I don't really care about scent control when rifle hunting so the clothes I wear also double for general outside use and for ice fishing as well. It really isn't about cheap meat.


I only ask this because I had to walk 30 acres of wooded mountainside this weekend for real estate and I had to keep shouting so I wasn't shot by some drunk ( 10 year aged Famous Grouse single malt ) hunter who heard us rustling in the woods. Benefit to me is I get to see all the flora and fawna and natural splendor as all you hunters, except I get paid for it and don't have to drag and gut anything ;)

Sheesh, 30 acres and you had to keep shouting? It is really obvious you are a city boy Joe ;). Suprisingly Joe, most hunters are decent folks that don't go hunting while drunk and don't shoot at sounds but properly identify thier target and what lies behind it. Statements like this display your obvious ignorance when it comes to outdoor sporting activities enjoyed by many safe and sane individuals. Common sense and by law in some states would have you wearing blaze orange while in the woods during hunting season.

Joe (SoCal)
11-15-2010, 02:45 PM
Dick Cheney, Greg Lemond are two off the top high profile hunting accidents that come to mind. Im sure if I was inclined to search hunting acidents I could fill thread pages.

The unoccupied stands that I came across this weekend all but one had empty beer cans strewn about one had a big old broken jug of Carlo Rossi ( no accounting for taste ) THIS IS A FACT. The client I was walking the land with was the one who said we should start shouting and letting people know our HUMAN presence. He's an avid hunter and realized that it was hunting season and we were in heavily wooded land backing up to THOUSANDS OF ACRES of state land that was PRIME hunting grounds

Why would I be required to have blaze orange on if these non city decent hunters were so adapt and sober that they would never shoot at sounds and ALWAYS properly identify their target and what lies behind it ? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ;)

So politely Ice Boy you have NO IDEA what your talking about.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=&sll=41.533254,-73.55896&sspn=0.986883,2.661438&ie=UTF8&ll=41.460353,-73.953266&spn=0.030875,0.08317&t=h&z=14

mommicked
11-15-2010, 05:10 PM
A liberal is someone who claims to believe in freedom: freedom to tell you whats best for you, and freedom to try to take your freedoms from you and impose theirs upon you.

A small minded person is one who believes that all members of a group are alike, and that all members of a group should be viewed as a dangerous enemy, be they Muslims, Christians, atheists, or hunters.

Bad boat builders make dangerous boats, but that doesn't make me think all boat builders are crazed wild eyed lunatics.

Some Muslims (a minority so it seems) thinks all non Muslims should be converted or executed. But the Muslim at the gas station down the street seems pretty harmless, so far as I can tell.

I know atheists on here who would probably like to see all Christians euthanized, or somehow mentally reprogrammed. Others would simply like to be left alone.

I've known hunters who were law abiding and follow the rules. I've known ruthless poachers, and lazy, wasteful 'hunters' who give the rest of us a bad name.

If a person is too small minded to see that there are good and bad folks in most any group, they are too small minded to rationally converse with. Some are terrified of guns. Some are think all hunters and hunting is bad from the word go. Some folks can be rational, others are irrational. Irrational feelings are often the sign of some inner weakness.

I personally think that folks who spend much time with any sort of ball games (golf, soccer, football, the list goes on) or even sailing for pleasure's sake are wasteful of time money and energy. But I don't go around on threads they are participating in and tell them they are wrong because it doesn't suit me.

You can be rational or small minded. That is the choice we each have.

(PS-I like sailing for the sake of sailing when I have time, but I feel wasteful and 'lazy' when I do. It's just the way I'm wired).

Captain Blight
11-15-2010, 05:17 PM
Joe would do well to go hunting with just about any of us; what holds true less than 70 miles from NYC probably can't be taken as representative of Wisconsin. Or Wyoming. Or just about anywhere other than 70 miles from NYC.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
11-15-2010, 05:31 PM
Deer hot dogs are "the bomb" Joe.

Iceboy
11-15-2010, 06:05 PM
Hey, I have no doubt you could fill pages w/hunting accidents Joe. You are also correct in that I am not overly familiar with your particular area. Perhaps the property you were cruising did belong to a drunken sound shooting ass. Perhaps the guy just liked to drink in his stands in the off season or kids were drinking there. It happens. I would imagine it happens even more in your neck of the woods. Fact is though, even with thousands of armed people in the woods during gun deer season very few are shot being mistaken for deer or shot by someone blasting at sounds. You here about these type of things there often? Perhaps it is more dangerous there than you think. Maybe you should move to Mass. or something :).

As to the wearing of blaze orange. It isn't a matter of everyone being sure of thier target. It is just common sense. I wear it outside when I'm taking a leak or when ever I get out of my truck during gun hunting season. If folks could see you there is no reason to shout. Funny that your shouting most likely put you in more danger. You kick up deer and get them moving past hunters who have no idea exactly where you are. Now everyone I know that hunts would simply get off thier stand and wait until you were gone or go over and see what the ruckus was all about. I don't know the type of folks that hunt in your area but I would be wearing orange if I were cruising real estate this time of year. They do it here.

Oh, the three posts right after yours do make a lot of sense.

erster
11-15-2010, 06:31 PM
I'm tared, worn slam out. What a day for sure. I have provided several dinners for the winter time too. Just finished cleaning part of the food chain, probably three to four hundreds worth of dinners in NewYawk at the low end eateries.;) I did okay on the kill ratio too. I plan on eating the big sized guys after the medium sized guys ate the littlier guys and right on down. Of course with pictures it DID happen too. LOL!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC08885.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC08884.jpg

Joe (SoCal)
11-15-2010, 06:42 PM
Pisses me off that my freedoms of how i would like to dress. IM SUPPOSED to wear blaze orange to walk in MY woods so I don't get shot WTF ???? I have to change my CHOICE of what I want to wear in the woods during YOUR hunting season.

Iceboy
11-15-2010, 06:49 PM
Pisses me off that IM SUPPOSED to wear blaze orange to walk in MY woods.
Joe, I was looking over the game regs for your area. I don't see anywhere that it says it is required even for hunters. I am quite frankly surprised. I did see where your DEC suggests wearing it from November to January.

At any rate, I'm sorry you feel put out when you wander out of your element. Glad you made it out in one piece.

Joe (SoCal)
11-15-2010, 06:53 PM
Blaze orange is just simply not my color ;)

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 06:55 PM
there is no amendment insuring the right to wear natty clothes

Joe (SoCal)
11-15-2010, 06:56 PM
Deer season (gun) in the Southern Zone of NY opens this Saturday. Bow season closes Friday.

:D

Hence the empties in the deer blinds changing of the guard hunting season, pass me a cold one

paladin
11-15-2010, 06:59 PM
Aw, Joe...it's your choice 100% what you wear. Wear what you want, when you want, no one is holding a gun to your head....
Now...I have a couple bottles of Mateus Rose if it's not too pedestrian for you, and I have a big pot of stew in the crock pot on low. It'll be done about the time I get home tomorrow, drive on down and have some stew and wine and you don't have to wear orange clothes.

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 06:59 PM
hunters leave no sign

Black-Jack
11-15-2010, 07:40 PM
I can feel Joes pain. I used to be a hunter. I feel changed due to no longer feeling it is an ethical practice, heritage be damned. When someone runs their dogs or 4 wheelers over my land or I feel obliged to shout out during deer season to keep from being shot by some tresspassing ya hoo on my own posted land I get right angry.

katey
11-15-2010, 07:41 PM
I once came home with a bright orange bra. Dan said, "I see you're ready for hunting season."

Seriously, folks, the only unnatural death in nature is a natural death. Deer just don't have little deer coronaries and die in their sleep. If a deer doesn't get shot, then it is going to either
-get chased down by wolves, coyotes, or domestic dogs, depending on location
-get hit by a car
-starve to death due to a broken leg, a parasite infestation, deep winter snows, or (extremely unlikely) because it got so old that all its teeth fell out and it can't eat

If those were my choices, I'd opt for being shot.

I don't hunt. I spent about 10 years as a vegetarian, though I'm not now. But I've raised enough animals to know that there is such a thing as "better off dead," and that eating animals that have lived a wild life is probably in most cases more humane than eating those raised in feedlots, or poultry barns, and killed by machines.

I dare say that the number of animals that suffer due to wounding by hunters is orders of magnitude less than those that aren't quite killed before they're "processed" in a fully automated slaughterhouse.

Black-Jack
11-15-2010, 07:44 PM
dont have a problem with hunters or hunting - but do so ethically, soberly, and stay the he-- off posted land- you and your dogs.

purri
11-15-2010, 07:50 PM
In short it's called hunting (not shooting) for good reason.

seanz
11-15-2010, 08:00 PM
I try and be tolerant......really I do.
This story has used up all of my tolerance for the forseeable future.
http://www.3news.co.nz/Fun-loving-teacher-shot-in-hunting-accident/tabid/423/articleID/182885/Default.aspx

Venison is cheap here, it's farmed.
There's just no need for what happened to have happened. It's not like people can't get all the meat they want in NZ

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 08:06 PM
spotlighting/jacklighting is positively illegal here (I suspect that townies are the same everywhere)

Phillip Allen
11-15-2010, 08:09 PM
I once came home with a bright orange bra. Dan said, "I see you're ready for hunting season."

Seriously, folks, the only unnatural death in nature is a natural death. Deer just don't have little deer coronaries and die in their sleep. If a deer doesn't get shot, then it is going to either
-get chased down by wolves, coyotes, or domestic dogs, depending on location
-get hit by a car
-starve to death due to a broken leg, a parasite infestation, deep winter snows, or (extremely unlikely) because it got so old that all its teeth fell out and it can't eat

If those were my choices, I'd opt for being shot.

I don't hunt. I spent about 10 years as a vegetarian, though I'm not now. But I've raised enough animals to know that there is such a thing as "better off dead," and that eating animals that have lived a wild life is probably in most cases more humane than eating those raised in feedlots, or poultry barns, and killed by machines.

I dare say that the number of animals that suffer due to wounding by hunters is orders of magnitude less than those that aren't quite killed before they're "processed" in a fully automated slaughterhouse.

good post...re read the last sentence, folks

seanz
11-15-2010, 08:15 PM
spotlighting/jacklighting is positively illegal here (I suspect that townies are the same everywhere)

It's illegal here too.........I'd like his hunting companions charged as well, just to emphasize that point.

mommicked
11-15-2010, 08:52 PM
"Uncle" Erster: Good catch. Are some of those sea mullets? Yum. I see specks, drum, bluefish, and I always get spots/hogs/croakers confused for some reason. Looks like you put it to 'em.

Friend Joe, based on your footwear in post #54, I'd say fluorescent orange most certainly IS your color! lol, just funning. I often will go into areas during hunting season when not actively hunting and NOT wear orange. I may get shot one day doing it, but genuinely don't feel any more threatened than I do by poisonous snakes, and I don't wear 'snake boots' everywhere I go. Nor do I fear being struck by lightning at the sight of every cloud. Relax, don't worry, have a brew. :) You are a decent bit more civil than some folks I've met on the subject. Nice shots of the doe, the graves, and the family and scenery. I see why folks like to hang out there. I think your deer season is quite short compared to ours, 1-2 weeks versus 13 weeks, but not sure. Some of my almost in-laws hunt near Mayville.

All,
Firelighting/jacklighting is shooting a deer in the lights at night. Used to be an accepted way to hunt, but I think it was abandoned as unsafe. You never knew exactly what you were about to put down: a buck, neighbor's calf, Uncle Jeb. Here, except for right on the coast, due to boating, you can get a ticket any night of the year by shining a spotlight while possessing a firearm or archery equipment. In some areas, I think you can even get a ticket for turning your car around near a field without having a gun with you. They can be strict on that one, and should be.

RFNK
11-15-2010, 09:24 PM
I took a doe just around dark last tuesday. Double lung shot with an arrow. I shot at the very last speck of light and knew I made a good shot. I practice year round with my bow and know where every arrow goes. That deer went over 200 yards into a marshy area but I knew it was hit good and I chose to find it that night before the coyotes or bears got to it. Besides it was nearly 60 degrees and I didn't wish to let it spoil over night. I have a blood tracking light and they work great. This is the first year I used it. Usually it is a Coleman lantern and a roll of toilet paper. Leave a square wherever you see blood. It disolves after the first rain or snow so no litter is obvious. It took 3 hours to find that deer and get it out of the swamp

Yep, great fun. I'll bet the deer really enjoyed herself too. Communing with nature like this is just so wonderful isn't it?
Rick

BarnacleGrim
11-15-2010, 09:31 PM
All,
Firelighting/jacklighting is shooting a deer in the lights at night. Used to be an accepted way to hunt, but I think it was abandoned as unsafe. You never knew exactly what you were about to put down: a buck, neighbor's calf, Uncle Jeb.
Not just deer: :D

http://www.brousse-en-folie.com/images/T4P11.jpg

Iceboy
11-15-2010, 09:43 PM
Yep, great fun. I'll bet the deer really enjoyed herself too. Communing with nature like this is just so wonderful isn't it?
Rick

I eat meat among other things. I will eat or otherwise use every part of this animal including most of the gut pile. How did your last steak/fish/crab taste? I don't need to justify a clean kill on a herd control deer that I am going to feed my family with to you or anyone else.
I know where almost all of my food comes from. First hand, How about you? How "ethical" is your family food chain?

RFNK
11-15-2010, 09:59 PM
No one's asking you to, are they? I just don't understand how you lot enjoy this, that's all. But I don't understand how so many people in Spain and Mexico enjoy watching bulls die in agony either ... forgive my ignorance.
Rick

mommicked
11-15-2010, 10:18 PM
Ignorance or arrogance?

Iceboy
11-15-2010, 10:36 PM
No one's asking you to, are they? I just don't understand how you lot enjoy this, that's all. But I don't understand how so many people in Spain and Mexico enjoy watching bulls die in agony either ... forgive my ignorance.
Rick

In a way you are asking that. Either that or you just like to jump into conversations to make snide remarks. For the record, I don't understand or condone bull fighting or the killing/harming of animals for amusement either.

purri
11-15-2010, 10:59 PM
^ On that note Woodleigh RNs are quite effective.

RFNK
11-16-2010, 12:14 AM
In a way you are asking that. Either that or you just like to jump into conversations to make snide remarks. For the record, I don't understand or condone bull fighting or the killing/harming of animals for amusement either.

My remarks are neither snide nor do I jump into conversations. Please wake up - this is a forum. It seems to me that you're the one making the assumptions. I said I can't understand anyone enjoying the slow and painful death of an animal. Whether you do or not is up to you - I have no way of judging that. Personally, I don't. I also see no reason to kill wildlife in this way in your society or mine. Only you can make your own judgement about that. Please keep your snide remarks to yourself.
Rick

Glen Longino
11-16-2010, 12:41 AM
No one's asking you to, are they? I just don't understand how you lot enjoy this, that's all. But I don't understand how so many people in Spain and Mexico enjoy watching bulls die in agony either ... forgive my ignorance.
Rick

Ooops! Did you stumble in where you're not welcomed?
Get the hell back to down under then and don't come back!
Okay? :D
Just kidding, you're welcome to come here and make a fool of yourself anytime you want to.
Am I welcome to the Almighty Oz Political Thread anytime I want to make a fool of myself?
No?
I figgered!
Elitist bastids!

purri
11-16-2010, 01:46 AM
Aya Rick,

We all decry the slobs/ "bubbas" that inhabit the world in all cultures and in all endeavours and professions. Your assumption that bogan behaviour is the norm for hunting/ hunters is a long way from the truth but unfortunately they get more publicity and less discipline from their peers than they deserve.

Capiche?

RFNK
11-16-2010, 02:13 AM
Ooops! Did you stumble in where you're not welcomed?
Get the hell back to down under then and don't come back!
Okay? :D
Just kidding, you're welcome to come here and make a fool of yourself anytime you want to.
Am I welcome to the Almighty Oz Political Thread anytime I want to make a fool of myself?
No?
I figgered!
Elitist bastids!

Of course! You don't need my invitation to do that!
Rick

RFNK
11-16-2010, 02:29 AM
Aya Rick,

We all decry the slobs/ "bubbas" that inhabit the world in all cultures and in all endeavours and professions. Your assumption that bogan behaviour is the norm for hunting/ hunters is a long way from the truth but unfortunately they get more publicity and less discipline from their peers than they deserve.

Capiche?

Point taken Purri but I'm not sure I agree on your proportioning. I've been to headlands after the so-called `elite' LBG fishermen have left their crap strung out all over the rocks for every second seabird to strangle itself in, I've seen increasing numbers of trucks with pig-dogs caged up in the back all over country NSW, I've seen koalas, wombats, goannas etc. with bullet wounds, I've heard plenty of morons laughing about their wanton cruelty to feral pigs and cats etc. Given the ease of access to guns and hunting licences in the USA and plenty of other places, forgive me if I suspect that hunting in those places is a pretty disgraceful affair in far too many cases.

This thread opened with a story about a deer that had bits shot off it by a guy who doesn't sound like a slob at all but the consequences of his actions are probably the slow and unnecessary death of an animal. Anyway .........
Rick

TomF
11-16-2010, 08:52 AM
I'd love to learn to hunt, alongside someone like Phillip. It's a regret of mine that I've not had the chance, that my Dad wasn't a hunter, etc. I've no time to learn properly just now, what with various obligations ... I'd not have the time to spend practicing at the range to the point where I'd feel comfortable enough with my marksmanship to place the bullet exactly where I'd need it to be placed, 99% of the time. Without that competence going in, I'm just not interested.

Deer aren't as plentiful 'round here as they are in parts of the US - habitat differences, and competition with moose see to that. But in principle, I've no trouble with killing an animal quickly and cleanly, in order to eat it. I'm an omnivore, and I think it's incumbent on me not to shy away from the fact that each meat-laden meal I have meant that some animal died. If I had my druthers, I'd only eat meat I raised, or meat I hunted ... in order to be as sure as possible of the quality of life and quality of death the animal experienced. I think of it as an obligation, no less than an obligation to eat plants which were grown using practices which conserve and enrich the soil, rather than deplete it.

I'm lucky that down the street from me, there are a good number of farmers who sell food that's been produced using practices that I'm happy to support. Happy to be able to help them make a living too.

Bobby of Tulsa
11-16-2010, 09:19 AM
I'd love to learn to hunt, alongside someone like Phillip. It's a regret of mine that I've not had the chance, that my Dad wasn't a hunter, etc. I've no time to learn properly just now, what with various obligations ... I'd not have the time to spend practicing at the range to the point where I'd feel comfortable enough with my marksmanship to place the bullet exactly where I'd need it to be placed, 99% of the time. Without that competence going in, I'm just not interested.

Deer aren't as plentiful 'round here as they are in parts of the US - habitat differences, and competition with moose see to that. But in principle, I've no trouble with killing an animal quickly and cleanly, in order to eat it. I'm an omnivore, and I think it's incumbent on me not to shy away from the fact that each meat-laden meal I have meant that some animal died. If I had my druthers, I'd only eat meat I raised, or meat I hunted ... in order to be as sure as possible of the quality of life and quality of death the animal experienced. I think of it as an obligation, no less than an obligation to eat plants which were grown using practices which conserve and enrich the soil, rather than deplete it.

I'm lucky that down the street from me, there are a good number of farmers who sell food that's been produced using practices that I'm happy to support. Happy to be able to help them make a living too.

Mr.Tom, Walk out in the woods sit down beside a tree, be really still. Oh ya take your camera. Thats hunting. Move slowly and listen. You will soon know whats going on out there.

paladin
11-16-2010, 05:19 PM
Take along an apple or two, slowly peel them one at a time...let the peelings fall where you sit. Have the camera ready...you can eat the apples. No coffee, tea or tobacco.

Flying Orca
11-16-2010, 05:34 PM
Or just come on out here. I'm sure my dad would take you out.

switters
11-16-2010, 05:56 PM
http://wildlife.state.co.us/cdnr_news/wildlife/200046114411.html

The beginning of the article I've posted:

Hunting is one of the most valued traditions in Colorado and is safer than ever thanks in large part to the Division of Wildlife’s Hunter Education program.
Through this program, volunteer instructors teach hunters how to properly handle a firearm, outdoor survival skills and Colorado’s three basic hunting safety laws that were enacted by the Colorado Legislature in 1970.
Those safety laws require all hunters born on or after January 1, 1949 to take a hunter education course, require all hunters to wear blaze orange and prohibit hunters from having a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle.
As a result of these laws, the number of hunting accidents has decreased considerably since the last few decades.
In the 1960s, for example, Colorado averaged nine hunting fatalities per year and 25 non-fatal accidents. In the 1990s though, hunting accidents dropped to 1.3 fatalities and 11 non-fatal accidents annually.
In 1999, there were no fatal accidents. Patt Dorsey, the Division’s hunter education coordinator, attributes this decrease to hunters using five basic hunter safety rules:
Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.
Always keep the muzzle of your firearm pointed in a safe direction.
Be sure of your target and beyond it.
Keep your finger off the trigger until you’re ready to shoot.
Keep your firearm unloaded when not in use or in a vehicle.

Hunting in Colorado is safer than climbing/hiking, skiing, cycling... and even fishing. The majority of non-fatal accidents involve idiots driving around with loaded firearms and shooting themselves.

I doubt that this will change anyones mind, but felt it should be pointed out. As far as outdoor fashion, that has never been a concern of mine. But I did get a little upset one year having paid for a license and habitat stamp only to see several mountain bikers had lifted their bikes over the tank trap at the head of the trail on national forest property and were riding down the creek, for free. In a place where I had hunted elk for years and rarely seen other hunters. They needn't worry about getting shot, I could hear them half a mile away, and sat in my orange hat and vest up in the timber above the trail and watched them obliviously ride on by. I trudged over to the next drainage, and had a wonderful peaceful evening, if a longer walk-out in the dark than I had originally anticipated. I do admit to hunting the late season the last few years because it keeps the lazy and the wannabees at home. And the recreational trail hikers/bikers don't bother coming out after the snow sticks and all the city boys are in the gym.

Iceboy
11-16-2010, 06:08 PM
Good article. Thanks. I don't have the stats for Wisconsin but we instituted hunter safety requirements here as well. The amount of general jack assery has seemed to decline since. I took the course every year from age 12 to 17. It was always fun and you got to go to the range a few times. They also had quite a variety of birdcaged shotguns and fragmented rifles to show what happens with a plugged barrel.

Phillip Allen
11-16-2010, 07:17 PM
Good article. Thanks. I don't have the stats for Wisconsin but we instituted hunter safety requirements here as well. The amount of general jack assery has seemed to decline since. I took the course every year from age 12 to 17. It was always fun and you got to go to the range a few times. They also had quite a variety of birdcaged shotguns and fragmented rifles to show what happens with a plugged barrel.

we had a busted muzzle loader fastened to a board for display. all the various parts were in the position they would be in in a complete rifle but there were a lot missing. Back when wal mart still sold reloading stuff a guy had bought a black powder can (not a can of black powder)...measured out 90g in a volumetric measure (we checked and it came out to 47.5g actual weight)

he fired this in his muzzle loader...FOUR TIMES! finally getting good ignition on the fourth shot...BOOM!

the powder was 700X for those who would know (it looked black to him)