Looking for another boat...

[Ex-Oceangoddess]

Due to a radical lifestyle change, I sold Fiona II, an Atlantic 40, and moved to Montana. So now we're looking to build something around 25' which will be light enough to trail, either bilge keels or a centreboard, plywood construction, with sufficient accommodation for two people to explore the coast of British Columbia whenever we can get back there. And, of course, which sails like a dream. Any ideas out there?

[Ged]

This isn't EXACTLY what you asked for, but it is interesting...

http://www.brayyachtdesign.bc.ca/html/sbray75.html

[nedL]

Oceangoddess, I guess your post kind of sums up where you've been (?) Welcome back! smile.gif

[Wild Dingo]

GAWD FLAMIN BLIMEY!!... STRIKE ME ROAN ITS THE WONDEROUS OCEANGODDESS!!!! :eek: :D

How yer been me love? well and happy as a goanna on heat? Good on yer!! :D

Good to see yer back me dear! :cool: Shame to hear of the loosing of Fiona 11 sad... but thats life I guess

Take it easy
Shane

[Jack C]

As for the Bray 7.5: build a 24 ft. boat in "just over 400 hours???"

I say, that's a huge load of horse hockey! Cow chips! Deer pellets!

In the 25' range, here are my recommendations:

Princess Sharpies (http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/)

Norwalk Islands Sharpies (http://www.norwalkislandssharpie.org/)

Hartley (http://www.hartley-boats.com/)

Let's not rule out multihulls (http://www.searunner.com/)

Not centerboard boats, but pretty nonetheless (http://www.crabbers.co.uk/)

Parker Marine - he's got more plans than what he shows on the website, pick up his book. (http://www.parker-marine.com/)

That should give you enough to ruminate over.

Jack

[AngWood]

There's also this, from Karl Stambaugh at Chesapeake Marine Designs.

http://www.cmdboats.com/images/trailersailer24_sailplan.jpg

http://www.cmdboats.com/trailersailer24.htm

[Ged]

I gotta admit, Jack, that did make me rub my eyes and blink a couple of times. I did say that it was "interesting"... smile.gif

Anybody ever spoken or dealt with Patrick Bray & Co.?

[ 05-02-2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Ged ]

[Venchka]

Originally posted by AngWood:
There's also this, from Karl Stambaugh at Chesapeake Marine Designs.
What AngWood said. A claimed 2,500 pounds on the trailer. WoodenBoat (/O'Brien, Mike, author:/"Designs: Trailer Sailer 24: Shoal-draft Cruising," 165:98) reviewed it last year. The leeboards afford GOBS! (ancient nautical term) of interior space.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by AngWood:
There's also this, from Karl Stambaugh at Chesapeake Marine Designs....and if you are in a hurry, there is a Hull Kit available as well.

CMD Hull Kits (http://www.cmdboats.com/hullkits_prices.htm)

[JimD]

Do you like cat boats? Ted Brewer has a nice 22 footer, hard chined plywood.

[ahp]

Ex-Oceangoddess,

You might wan to look at the plans for Mystic II, which was designed by:

Mr. Anthony Tucker
Tucker Designs
15 Wrensfield Boxmoor
Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire
HP1 1RN
England

I have a set of plans. She is a hard chine, raised deck sloop, which can be built with either a centerline fin keel or twin bilge keels, and choice of 7/8 Marconi or mast head.

I think she is rather attractive and over one hundred were built by a commercial builder, of plywood, until the builder turned to something else. Mr Tucker claims that a number of amateures have built them too. He told me in a telephone conversation that he offers advice if needed.

21' 4" LOA, 17' 0" LWL, 6' 10" Beam, 2062 lbs (?)Displacement, 616 lbs iron in keels, 190 sq ft SA with working jib and 7/8 rig.

I am tempted. My only reservation is that some of the design details don't show well, such as the attachment of the rudder skeg to the hull.

She is attractive little boat, looks to be lively, and is trailerable.

[Ex-Oceangoddess]

Thank you gentlemen, for your warm welcome back. Yes, I decided that I really didn't want to go cruising, was (very) tired of living aboard, and couldn't see how I could keep a boat that size by myself if I were living on land. Anyway, WHO wants to live in California - it was time to move on, although I hadn't actually planned to end up living 600 miles from the ocean - well you know how things happen. I now have to teach him how to sail. He is an accomplished woodworker and quite tickled at the idea of becoming a boatbuilder. So, we are going to start with a dinghy, and then work on something we can take out to the northwest for explorations.

[Leon Steyns]

Originally posted by Ex-Oceangoddess:
... And, of course, which sails like a dream. Any ideas out there?I suggest you talk to Justin Pipkorn. He built a Vagabond+ 20' S&G centreboard trailersailer designed by Jacques Mertens, again won an SCA Challenge and trails and cruises on all lakes and oceans in and around the US.
See here (http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/ProjectJustRight/index.htm).
And some pictures:
http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/ProjectJustRight/st5.JPG

http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/ProjectJustRight/st2.JPG .

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[ 05-03-2003, 05:37 AM: Message edited by: Leon Steyns ]

[David N.]

Montana , the people are just the greatest , if only it was by the ocean ?? , well Flathead lake is really pretty , and it is big , if you have not been over to this neck of the woods , take a drive .

[whb]

Ex-Ocean

Nice to see you back.

Have you considered a trailerable trimaran. Meets your accomodation specs. Has shoal draft good for much of the northwest and I also suspect your Montana lakes. Might be a little longer than you had in mind.

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/F-9A.html

Howard

[JimD]

Glen-L and Roberto Barros also have plywood boats in that approximate size

[RGM]

Welcome back. Montana is a beautiful place for lots of reasons. There are lots of large and not so large lakes to explore in Montana, northern Idaho and Canada. If you're into road trips the Pacific Ocean really isn't that far away. Sounds like quite the lifestyle change, hope it works out for you. Good luck.

[Norske3]

HEY. smile.gif ..you are still alive an kickin'...welcome back.."Oh Goddess of the Montana Lakes"...go see David N in Kalispel....did you notice his profile?..he's a builder of wood boats!..Welcome back an keep posted on your progress...we are all ears. smile.gif

BUMMER ABOUT YOUR BOAT.. :(

[David N.]

Norske3 ,
Thank you , but alas , I have yet to build a wood boat ( steel and Aluminum up to 150' ) and of course not here in Montana , it is funny that I do know of at least 6 people right here who are wooden boat builders . You are right it is very nice ( during the summer at least ) here in Montana .

[Norske3]

OOPS.. redface.gif .Sorry Dave..I thought you had mentioned building a small boat sometime back in your shop....

Now, building in aluminum is something I have an interest in doing sometime..maybe next year...about a 22 foot trailer sailer....is Mig welding the best way to go?

[Shaver]

Yes, but DO NOT use gasless or CO2. I have had a couple of disasters trying to go cheap. Use plain wire 0.9 for thin plate 1.2 for the rest (0.6 is for very thin stuff) and what we call in Australia, Argoshield. It is an argon mixture with oxygen and CO2 in varying percentages expensive but worth it.

[Norske3]

Thank you Shaver...beware the cheap stuff...will do. smile.gif

[DickB]

Check out Phil Bolger's Chebacco (20', gaff rigged main with mizzen0 and the dedicated website at www.chebacco.com (http://www.chebacco.com) -- there's more than one Chebacco between you and the Pacific. All available, I'd think for a ride, a look, a talk. More camping style than berths if overnighting is the thing.

[Barrett Faneuf]

I thought I'd put a word in since I am having something similar designed by John Welsford.

The design as yet has no title, but I believe John intends to add it to his stock plans portfolio.

My requirements were an eminently trailerable weekend/vacation cruiser to accomodate two very comfortably and guest 4. Separate head a must; standing headroom in main cabin, lapstrake ply construction, very salty-looking. I think we're ending up with a yawl rig, gaff or standing lug I'm not clear on, double-ender. 2 tons on the trailer, 24 feet - ish. Interior layout similar to his Penguin design, only bigger. That means queen double berth forward, galley and head aft of that, saloon with seating for 4, part of which is the 2(!) quarterberths tucked partially under the cocpit seats. Auxiliarry power to be outboard in well or saildrive in same location. No engine in main cabin, thanks very much.

The first draft drawings are in the mail right now, but I plan to keep the forums updated as appropriate with John's blessing. That means I'll post pictures if he agrees. If you're planning to build a tender first, you have some time to make a decision, and I thought I'd throw in another decision vector as it sounds like you're looking for something similar to what I want.

-Barrett

[Ged]

Are there any particular aesthetic design elements that turn you on? What kind of "look" do you want, or does that not really matter to you?

As a matter of curiosity, I would be interested to know more about this new Welsford design, if more particulars can be posted.

[David N.]

Norske
Mig is the only way to go , you have a couple of ways to go , 1) learn to weld , 2)or just do the fit-up , thats most of the work anyway !! . Get a good design with a welding sch. that way you will have the correct procedure , and have a good alum mig welder weld it out . That way when you are in " some weather " you will not think about those welds when you were first learning how to .
3/16" is about the thinnest I would ever consider and then weight become's an issue on that small of a boat ?? . BOL dn

[Bayboat]

Once an Oceangoddess, always an Oceangoddess, even in Montana.

[TimScearce]

May I kindly suggest Ian Oughtred's "Grey Seal". This is, IMHO, a truly stunning looking boat. She should trailer well and take care of you in most of the kind of weather you are likely to encounter here in the PNW. If you are going to invest the kind of time it takes to build a boat, you might as well build one that will turn your head when you row or walk away from her.

Not that the other boats here aren't lovely, you just need to find the one that catches your heart. If I ever built a little cruiser, this will be the one.

Here is a link to a page with more info and pictures:
Independence Boat Works Grey Seal Page (http://www.independenceboatworks.com/GreySeal.htm)

http://www.independenceboatworks.com/Images/GreySeal_4.jpg

http://www.independenceboatworks.com/Images/GreySeal_20.jpg

[Ex-Oceangoddess]

I am happily grateful for the food for thought - now you guys (and Barrett) have me hopping all over the net looking at plans, both beautiful and some truly dreadful (people actually BUILD these boats!) and getting most distracted.

One of the designs that appeals to us is Fred Bingham's Allegra, although battling with cold molding or strip planks is far less appealing than glued lapstrake. All that horrid epoxy....

Keep 'em coming...

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Here's what I'm building:

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/pictures/oughtred/eunmara1.jpg

Steven

[Ex-Oceangoddess]

that's a very pretty little yawl, Steven - what is it?

[imported_Steven Bauer]

It is Iain Oughtred's Eun Mara.
Eun Mara specs (http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/dfwbphp/boatPAGE.php?type=spec&ID=1033)

And a link to one under construction:

Alistego's web page (http://www.alistego.com/)

Steven

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Ex-Oceangoddess:
One of the designs that appeals to us is Fred Bingham's Allegra, although battling with cold molding or strip planks is far less appealing than glued lapstrake. All that horrid epoxy....
There are several Allegra threads on the Forum. You might want to use the Search thingy and read what has been said. I suppose it boils down to your idea of trailerable. Allegra's complexity, draft and HEFT place it at the upper bounds of trailerable.

Grey Seal approaches that same upper limit in terms of constuction time/cost and trailerable dimensions. I visited Independance Boatworks and talked to the builder at great length. My guess is that Grey Seal requires a minimum of 100% more time/money to build than Eun Mara, Wee Seal II or Penguin.

Draft is a double edged sword in trailer boats. More draft makes for excellant sailing qualities but places the boat high on the trailer. Less draft makes for easy trailing, launching and poking into very secluded anchorages at the possible expense of sailing qualities.

Don't overlook the benefits of the 3-sail rig as shown on Eun Mara in a previous post. Being able to sail on jib and mizzen when things get hairy is a big PLUS.

In my own personal opinion, 2,000-2,500 pounds on the trailer is about all the boat you can safely trailer any significant distance with a "normal" vehicle, launch at ramps without needing a crane, rig in a moderate amount of time AND retrieve at the same ramp in a resonable amount of time.

Keep it light. Keep it shallow. Keep it simple. You will be on the water sooner. You will use the boat more.

That's my opinion. It is worth precisely what it cost.

[Dave Williams]

Ocean Godess,

Of the designs offered up so far I think Karl Stanbaugh's Trailer Sailer would be my choice. I have been eyeing her for a while.

Lots of room below, faily easy constructiion, and to my eye, pretty. I've sailed quite a bit with leeboards and done right they are very effective. Of course given my prejudice I'd like her with a fully battened balanced lug rig "Junk". THAT would be a sweet boat for your purposes. I sail my junk rigged dory schooner in the waters you mention.

Also I have had several conversations with Karl re: another design that I have been thinking of and he has been really great to work with.

Anyway that my two cents worth.

Here's to kindness,
Dave

[ 05-12-2003, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Dave Williams ]

[ff_franz]

-
how about this one: "clandestino"
http://www.emubo.com/e/boote/kueste/ansicht_1.jpg
http://www.emubo.com/e/boote/kueste/bild_1.jpg
www.emubo.com (http://www.emubo.com)

( I hope this post is not against some "rules" here, and webmaster-scott has not again work to do)

[JimD]

Originally posted by ff_franz:
-
how about this one: "clandestino"
http://www.emubo.com/e/boote/kueste/ansicht_1.jpg
http://www.emubo.com/e/boote/kueste/bild_1.jpg
www.emubo.com (http://www.emubo.com)

( I hope this post is not against some "rules" here, and webmaster-scott has not again work to do)fffranz, are you sure you're not Phil Bolger under an alias :D

[Ex-Oceangoddess]

With all due respect, I think Jim is on to something....

I once had a dream (when I was in the process of deciding what to build, prior to Fiona II and seriously? contemplating a hard chine design) about being down at a marina in Crescent Beach, south of Vancouver, where all the sailboats were hard chine, with reverse and conventional transoms, and thinking to myself, SELF, why would anyone build an UGLY boat.....

This after having purchased plans, lofted, got all the lead for the keel, started to lay out molds, etc. etc. Needless to say, my guardian angel intervened and a week later I was the proud owner of Fiona II in bare hull form, beautifully carvel planked in yellow cedar, with lines that make everyone pause going down the dock (even in Southern California - REEELLY) and ask what the beautiful boat is.

So, the next one has to be beautiful.

Keep the ideas coming, although I think we are narrowing the field...

[JimD]

Ex O, have you looked at Paul Gartside's Surprise?

[Venchka]

Surprise, as are all of Paul's designs, is indeed lovely-no argument. Trailerable? Hmmmmmmmm.

Paul's Designs #82 or #106 seem to fit the definition of a maxi-trailerable cruiser.


22 ft Double Ended Centerboard Sloop, Design #106
Construction: Cold molded
This is a design for a roomy trailerable weekender. The client lives in the interior of BC, so this one is likely to see lakes as well as coastal cruising.Gartside Designs #106 & #82 (http://www.gartsideboats.com/catsail3.php)

[Alan D. Hyde]

Here's the Gartside boat Wayne refers to above.

http://www.gartsideboats.com/pgimages/106cb.jpg

All this, and ties to the WBF, too. :D Hi, Barbara!

Alan

[Ex-Oceangoddess]

Yes, I have indeed looked at the Gartside boat. However, its the headroom issue you know....

Actually, several of us have discussed the definition of trailerable, as it relates to each of us and our different needs.

For some it seems to be the ease with which you can pop the boat in and out of the water on a regular basis and raise the mast in less than 15 minutes.

For us the issue is different. We will keep the boat in the water in the summer (which ain't that long here!) as there are docks at the lake. We would haul it up the ramp to the dry storage at the same place in the winter. AND, we want to be able to trail it to the west coast, about 700 miles away, a couple of times a year for maybe a month's cruise at a time.

So, for us, the ease of getting it on and off the trailer is of less importance than comfortable living space while cruising the BC coast where, as you may know, it can rain with much gusto at any time of the year. Ergo, comfortable boat with headroom, heater, hot water, storage etc. Also we don't intend to bring the kiddies, who are grown and all far too busy to hang around with us, and therefore only want a nice comfy v-berth. The rest of the room can be for us.

We are awaiting John Welsford's preliminary drawings which he's doing for Barrett, and also looking closely at Amigo. Anyone else (beside Jim) who has knowledge, intimate or otherwise, of Amigo - I'd love to hear from you.

I'm really enjoying all this stuff. Thanks.

[Ex-Oceangoddess]

Some of you guys might be amused by the bargain I've had to make with my new hubbie: after we build the sailboat we build a mahogany runabout for him - to match the red Corvette, you know..

And of course, we have to build the shop first. I will be sure to take lots of pics of it all squeaky clean and new, so you think I keep a neat and tidy shop all the time (not bloody likely) and can be jealous.

[Wiley Baggins]

Originally posted by Billy Bones:

<snip>My suggestion would be Paketi, by David Payne. This design, offered by WB in multiple variations as drawn by the designer, seems to be the perfect (plywood) boat in so many ways and yet it receives almost no discussion, except occasionally by me, on the forum, or for that matter, over the entire internet.<snip>Billy Bones,

I have to say that I was wholly unfamiliar with this boat. As you noted, you appear to be about the only person championing the design. Thanks for pointing her out; she is a very pretty boat.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I love this boat , Gaff riged of course :D

http://www.boatdesigns.com/store/Html/Products/images/goodomenprof.JPG

http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=goodomen.html&&cart_id=1794433_463

[sailmed]

There is an Allegra 24' Cutter listed for sale in the classified section of Trailersailor forum. This one has a fiberglass hull and teak cabin top.
Maybe it would fill the bill until something else comes along. Good luck!
p.s.
I am not the owner, nor do I have any interest in the sale of said boat.

[Barrett Faneuf]

For those interested in following the design John's drawing up for me, it now has its own thread!

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002616

It really does look like a big sister to Eun Mara; I love it.

[JimD]

...and also looking closely at Amigo. Anyone else (beside Jim) who has knowledge, intimate or otherwise, of Amigo - I'd love to hear from you...

QB]:D ...there is another forumite, Butch is the name as I recall. He purchased a 10 yr old Amigo a while back and was asking questions about redoing the deck, but he hasn't posted in a long time. Hopefully he's just too busy working on her to hang out at the forum.

Also, I like the Gartside boats so much I asked Glen-L about adding a topsail to the gaff version of Amigo mostly because the rig is so salty looking and I wanted a topsail to play with. They weren't too enthused with the idea.