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peb
11-04-2010, 11:22 AM
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/34-warships-sent-from-us-for-obama-visit-64459

Certainly hope Obama does not take any flack for this. Nothing like going in force and a little muscle behind you. He will have more ships protecting him than probably any other leader could do if they had their entire navy.

Captain Blight
11-04-2010, 11:25 AM
I remember getting ALL tuned up when the Former Occupant did this same sort of thing. Big and splashy and expen$$ive. I did calm down once it was represented to me that this is what a Head Of State is expected to do, occasionally. Particularly, troops on the outposts of Empire deserve recognition once in a while.

peb
11-04-2010, 11:37 AM
I heard the visit to Mumbai will cost $200 million per day. This morning, Obama said the visit will lead to more jobs in America.

Probably will lead to more jobs to america, as India is an up and coming emerging economy and relations with them are important to our economy. As to the cost, I don't know what is included in the 200 million per day, but if it includes any of the naval costs, it is completely bogus. Those ships were out there operating in the Indian ocean anyway. Its not like we only incur the cost of operations when we are using them for a tactical purpose.

wizbang 13
11-04-2010, 12:12 PM
Many of the ships are to protect the carrier, no?

LeeG
11-04-2010, 12:29 PM
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/34-warships-sent-from-us-for-obama-visit-64459

Certainly hope Obama does not take any flack for this. Nothing like going in force and a little muscle behind you. He will have more ships protecting him than probably any other leader could do if they had their entire navy.

you make it sound as though he was visiting Iraq. Seems to me the article and you are confusing existing fleet forces with security for a presidential visit.

SMARTINSEN
11-04-2010, 12:35 PM
Probably will lead to more jobs to america, as India is an up and coming emerging economy and relations with them are important to our economy.

We are seeing this already. I have noticed a lot more "Made in India" goods in the past year or so.

Increased trade with India would be a god thing. Maybe we could sell them some cars or even better create some production partnerships. Their fledgling auto industry looks like it could use some help, and we hopefully we would be able to compete successfully against the Chinese in their own back yard.

Captain Blight
11-04-2010, 12:40 PM
Oh, heck yeah. Trade with India, Vietnam, Taiwan, Japan, Argentina, Peru, Canada, Mexico, ANYONE but China! If we can't build it or make it here, then let's not just automatically start forking it over to the Chinese.

pefjr
11-04-2010, 12:41 PM
This is a "don't mess with us message"?

LeeG
11-04-2010, 12:45 PM
I heard the visit to Mumbai will cost $200 million per day. This morning, Obama said the visit will lead to more jobs in America.

I hear the US has the largest military in the world and that the Enterprise goes through 44,000lbs of hot dogs a month

LeeG
11-04-2010, 12:47 PM
pathological lunacy, yep, that's infotainment.

LeeG
11-04-2010, 12:51 PM
thanks Norman, the election is over but the bs never stops.


http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2010/11/04/obamas-200-million-a-day-trip-to-india-a-case-study-in-pathological-lunacy/?cxntfid=blogs_jay_bookman_blog

Credibility no longer matters. Truth no longer matters.

And shame? Shame at being caught selling ridiculous falsehoods and lies? Hah!

Right-wing bloggers, media and politicians have seized on a report on an Indian Internet site, supposedly based on an anonymous estimate from an Indian government official, that President Obama will be spending $200 million a day on his India trip.

Now think about the impossibility of that. Two hundred million bucks a day? As Factcheck.org points out, the entire U.S. war effort in Afghanistan — where we have to arm, equip and provision roughly 100,000 troops in a hostile, barren environment — costs us $190 million a day. The claim is simply too ridiculous to be contemplated, let alone believed.

Yet as the clip above from Fox Business News demonstrates, the absurdity quickly became fuel for the vast right-wing outrage machine. (My favorite part above is where the outraged host, the genius Eric Bolling, insists: “I will tell you unequivocably, I am not making this up, this has been reported, go to the Internet, go take a look.” Really, they gave this guy a microphone and TV time?)

Drudge picked it up. Sean Hannity jumped in on it. Rush Limbaugh has been spreading the meme. U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann went on CNN to condemn the expenditure. And the blogosphere? Oh the lunacy!

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. If you’re willing to believe that Obama is a Kenyan Marxist-fascist-anticolonialist black racist who hates America and plots its destruction, what won’t you believe.

Kaa
11-04-2010, 01:17 PM
Could I inquire as to who this "don't mess with us" message is aimed at?

Kaa

LeeG
11-04-2010, 01:22 PM
Could I inquire as to who this "don't mess with us" message is aimed at?

Kaa

the microsoft guy who provides tech support

Kaa
11-04-2010, 01:23 PM
the microsoft guy who provides tech support

Don't annoy the microsoft guy who provides the tech support or your Navy will start experiencing severe problems :D

Kaa

peb
11-04-2010, 01:24 PM
you make it sound as though he was visiting Iraq. Seems to me the article and you are confusing existing fleet forces with security for a presidential visit.

Why do you think so? Do you think the carrier group are being sent to the sea lanes off Mumbai at this time as a matter of pure coincidence.




This is a "don't mess with us message"?


That what it seems like to me. The president is making a state visit to a place that is considered somewhat dangerous, so we go with a show of force. Kind of the old "do something and the force of God will come down on you" message.

peb
11-04-2010, 01:25 PM
Could I inquire as to who this "don't mess with us" message is aimed at?

Kaa

Probably the same folks who did this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks

Kaa
11-04-2010, 01:49 PM
Probably the same folks who did this

Ah. So, in the tenth year of the GWOT, do you think the sight of US Navy fills them with fear? Once they glimpsed the aircraft carrier off the Indian shores they will cease and desist their dastardly plans and slink back to their caves to tremble in fear?

Oh, and remind me, how will 34 warships be helpful in the case of a Mumbai-style attack?

Kaa

peb
11-04-2010, 01:57 PM
Ah. So, in the tenth year of the GWOT, do you think the sight of US Navy fills them with fear? Once they glimpsed the aircraft carrier off the Indian shores they will cease and desist their dastardly plans and slink back to their caves to tremble in fear?

Oh, and remind me, how will 34 warships be helpful in the case of a Mumbai-style attack?

Kaa

If, after 10 years of a GWOT, you don't think a carrier group has a lot of anti-terrorism capabilities, you must have zero faith in our military. I certainly hope you are wrong.

Kaa
11-04-2010, 02:01 PM
If, after 10 years of a GWOT, you don't think a carrier group has a lot of anti-terrorism capabilities, you must have zero faith in our military.

I think that a carrier group is a spectacularly expensive and a spectacularly wrong thing to have on hand in case of major terrorist attack in a big city.

I have faith in the US military's capability to come up with bogus reason to justify the continued existence of its obsolete parts.

And all this still doesn't add up to a "don't mess with us" message.

Kaa

John of Phoenix
11-04-2010, 02:07 PM
I think that a carrier group is a spectacularly expensive and a spectacularly wrong thing to have on hand in case of major terrorist attack in a big city.

Almost a temptation to stage an attack. Show how ineffective all that steel is against an ideology.

LeeG
11-04-2010, 02:11 PM
If, after 10 years of a GWOT, you don't think a carrier group has a lot of anti-terrorism capabilities, you must have zero faith in our military. I certainly hope you are wrong.

you are out of your freaking mind. The security detail on the ground cooperating with Indian security is where the capabilities lie. The bunch of ships are totally useless if various seperatist groups or jihadists decided to set off bombs in Mumbai. Those ships would be sitting out there like a bunch of metal sculptures. WTF are they going to do? Drop cluster bombs on Mumbai? You've recycled some mindless pap about ships being used for the presidents security .

Militarizing counterterrorism will bankrupt this country. WTF do you think the invasion of Iraq was about? The flip flop between "no nation building" to setting up democratic institutions in countries that have no use for them is the neocons propoganda campaign for eternal war.

pefjr
11-04-2010, 02:18 PM
you are out of your freaking mind. The security detail on the ground cooperating with Indian security is where the capabilities lie. The bunch of ships are totally useless if various seperatist groups or jihadists decided to set off bombs in Mumbai. Those ships would be sitting out there like a bunch of metal sculptures. WTF are they going to do? Drop cluster bombs on Mumbai? You've recycled some mindless pap about ships being used for the presidents security .

Militarizing counterterrorism will bankrupt this country. WTF do you think the invasion of Iraq was about? The flip flop between "no nation building" to setting up democratic institutions in countries that have no use for them is the neocons propoganda campaign for eternal war.Somebody tell LeeG to take a chill pill before he blows a fuse.:d

peb
11-04-2010, 02:28 PM
you are out of your freaking mind. The security detail on the ground cooperating with Indian security is where the capabilities lie. The bunch of ships are totally useless if various seperatist groups or jihadists decided to set off bombs in Mumbai. Those ships would be sitting out there like a bunch of metal sculptures. WTF are they going to do? Drop cluster bombs on Mumbai? You've recycled some mindless pap about ships being used for the presidents security .

Militarizing counterterrorism will bankrupt this country. WTF do you think the invasion of Iraq was about? The flip flop between "no nation building" to setting up democratic institutions in countries that have no use for them is the neocons propoganda campaign for eternal war.

I recycled nothing. This is rather unprecedented as far as I can remember. As to the dropping cluster bombs comment, you are obviously around 30 years behind on military technology. You have no idea the amount of electronic surveillance, remote control attack, naval seal squads, precision targeted missiles, etc that can be deployed rapidly off of this group. Heck, much of the security detail on the ground will probably come from personel in this force. The whole idea that most of the ships are there to protect the carrier is itself no longer accurate (truth be told, it was overstated in the past).

Now, I will admit that it is open to debate if a carrier force is an efficient means of counter terrorism. But I see absolutely nothing wrong, and a lot to commend, with the idea that we take a force, which is geographically close, and use it to back up the President when he is visiting an area with historical problems of an attack.

LeeG
11-04-2010, 02:32 PM
You have no idea the amount of electronic surveillance, remote control attack, naval seal squads, precision targeted missiles, etc that can be deployed rapidly off of this group. .


after an attack. I would be really interested in reading more that the naval group is really there for his visit.

Bob Adams
11-04-2010, 03:02 PM
Aw hell, I wonder what all those campaign trips he took last month cost the taxpayers?

Milo Christensen
11-04-2010, 03:14 PM
How did the thread go when President Bush went to India and gave away Amurican jobs and nukular technology in exchange for, wait for it, mangoes?

BA.Barcolounger
11-04-2010, 03:17 PM
The carrier group was already scheduled to go to the Indian Ocean. It is going there to relieve the USS Enterprise carrier group which is already there. In fact, it just passed the Suez this past week. Diverting it to sit offshore of Mumbai is a minor detour in it's standard deployment.

The $200million/day figure is based on a single anonymous source in India, with no independent verification, from a paper with a reputation similar to the NY Post. If you guys want to base your facts and opinions on that level of journalistic integrity, I feel sorry for you.

Rich Jones
11-04-2010, 03:48 PM
The Fox Gang and Limbaugh will latch onto any falsehood and repeat it enough times so that they even start believing their own lies. Saw a report on TV today saying that the local hotels are knocking down all the coconuts in their palm trees because they have been known to fall and injure people. Obama taken out by a falling coconut, now that would save the Right a lot of effort!

bobbys
11-04-2010, 03:58 PM
Whatever i say on this will be construed as Racist so i will just keep my "skin in the game" and hope when he gets back i get the keys to the car back after he checks to see the thermostat has not been at 72 degrees..

I really keep it at 63 much to my wife's dismay.

Chris Smith porter maine
11-04-2010, 04:10 PM
Well I don't know how well a carrier group can protect or save him from terrorists in India, but I could see how an Expeditionary Strike Group could help if the SHTF, 40 helicopters and 2200 Marines is my kind of rapid response team, I think we have 10 or 12 of these now.
Chris Smith

Garrett Lowell
11-04-2010, 04:40 PM
This thread is the perfect example of politics and reporting today-a lot of volume, a lot of rhetoric, and very little in the way of fact checking.

LeeG
11-04-2010, 04:47 PM
facts! we don't need no stinkin' facts.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-04-2010, 04:52 PM
I heard the visit to Mumbai will cost $200 million per day. This morning, Obama said the visit will lead to more jobs in America.

What are your doubts, specifically?

WX
11-04-2010, 04:52 PM
Seems a bit over the top to me and I reckon the disruption to traffic in the city will only pi** off more people. Are the 34 warships going to stop and search every ship and small craft that is going in and out of Mumbai?
I hope the rules of engagement are tighter than a fishes freckle.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-04-2010, 04:56 PM
could i inquire as to who this "don't mess with us" message is aimed at?

Kaa

c-h-i-n-a

LeeG
11-04-2010, 05:02 PM
we mess ourselves just fine

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-04-2010, 05:09 PM
The Chinese have numerous economies in their region that are or could be their direct competitors. They all rely on sea trade as China does. None of them have a naval presence sufficient to contend with China and they are happy to see US naval forces in their part of the world. One, Indonesia, a Muslim country with two, yes two, submarines, neither of which work, are very happy to see our navy but can't say so for cultural reasons.
There are other island nations in the southern oceans that also rely on sea trade that are also very glad to see our navy in their waters. But they shall go unnamed to not embarrass them.
And, I am told, our president will speak to the Indonesians in whatever language they speak in Indonesia which should make us a few Muslim friends. I hope he gets it right.

Keith Wilson
11-04-2010, 07:11 PM
Michelle Bachmann's casual relationship with the truth . . . This is false. Ms. Bachmann does NOT have a casual relationship with the truth. She has never had anything at all to do with the truth at any time.

WX
11-04-2010, 07:26 PM
And, I am told, our president will speak to the Indonesians in whatever language they speak in Indonesia which should make us a few Muslim friends. I hope he gets it right.

Bahasa.

purri
11-04-2010, 09:57 PM
Cuyahoga mate,

Your President speaks fluent Bahasa Indonesia. As a child he was schooled there for some years.

FWIW India has the largest ocean going navy in Asia and maybe the world's largest merchant navy. As the projection of sea power there is a saying these parts that goes:

"Why do they call it the Indian Ocean? Because it is!"

LeeG
11-05-2010, 08:22 AM
at least we know where some folks "hear" their news. Why don't people simply put a shirt on that says "I'm with stupid". No doubt Beck, Bachmann, Rush and Imus will aknowledge their stupidity and correct their parroting of disinformation.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2010/11/04/ac.obamas.india.trip.cost2.mov.cnn

www.juancole.com

One of the great things about the victory of so many eccentrics in the congressional races of 2010 for bloggers is that we can look forward to at least two years of having lots of fun with them. Of course, old-time funny people have come back, as well, such as cut-up Michelle Bachmann.

Bachmann is among those spreading the ridiculous rumor that President Barack Obama’s trip to Asia, including India, will cost $200 million a day. In 2010 dollars, President Clinton’s 10-day visit to Africa over a decade ago cost about $5 mn. a day. That is probably ballpark for Obama’s trip as well. The Pentagon called ridiculous the idea that a tenth of the navy (right wing fantasy radio alleges 34 battleships) will be diverted for the trip.

What Bachmann does not know (and what she does not know would fill a parallel universe) is that even if the allegations were true (which they are not, being off by a factor of 40), it might be worth it. Obama will be in India three days during the 9-day trip, so let us attribute a mythical $600 million to Obama’s stay there (again, a fantasy– it is more like $15 mn. in all likelihood–but let’s play the game).

India’s external trade with the United States in 2009 was roughly $37 billion. But India’s ambassador to the US, Meera Shankar, has just predicted that US-India trade will grow to the level of $50 billion a year by next March, i.e., it will increase 30% over 2009 levels. That would be an increase of roughly $13 billion over the 2009 total.

Obama isn’t going to India for his health. India is looking to expand trade, and its government is seeking to buy $30 billion worth of weaponry over the next five years. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh can buy it from Russia, or from France, or from the US. Obama is going to Delhi as salesman-in-chief to try to get as much of that sum spent on American-made materiel as possible.

BETTY-B
11-05-2010, 11:45 AM
Dealing with someone off their medication for things like bi-polar disorder is extremely frustrating. When all reason is removed from the equation, there comes a time when there's nothing left but to put them in the hospital to protect not only them, but everyone else too. Day after day, lie after lie, this has to end somewhere.

Kaa
11-05-2010, 12:06 PM
In 2010 dollars, President Clinton’s 10-day visit to Africa over a decade ago cost about $5 mn. a day. That is probably ballpark for Obama’s trip as well.

Probably not -- in the post-9/11 world and for a visit to Mumbai where the terrorists have demonstrated the capability to infiltrate a large well-armed group.

In any case, the White House refuses to release cost and everyone just uses the imaginary number they like :-)

Kaa

LeeG
11-05-2010, 12:43 PM
No, everyone doesn't use imaginary numbers. Numbers should correspond to reality and if you don't know something don't fill the unknown with fiction. You know, absence of proof isn't an opportunity to pass off disinformation .

Kaa
11-05-2010, 12:54 PM
No, everyone doesn't use imaginary numbers. Numbers should correspond to reality and if you don't know something don't fill the unknown with fiction. You know, absence of proof isn't an opportunity to pass off disinformation .

Your own $5m number looks pretty imaginary to me... :-P

Kaa

LeeG
11-05-2010, 12:56 PM
Your own $5m number looks pretty imaginary to me... :-P

Kaa

I imagine it's closer to reality than $200million

Kaa
11-05-2010, 12:58 PM
I imagine it's closer to reality than $200million

Yep. You "imagine" :D

Kaa

Breakaway
11-05-2010, 07:15 PM
Is it "Don't Mess with Us," or " We're Scared?" Depends upon the vantage, I suppose.

Kevin