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DGentry
10-31-2010, 10:45 AM
I've used this (successfully, I might add) in lieu of thickened epoxy on a number of projects, and it occurred to me that is might also be useful as a skin coating. So I tried it, on a test scrap. What is it? It's PL Premium Polyurethane Construction Adhesive!

As many of you know, this is a completely waterproof, very strong adhesive that sticks to a large variety of substances, including wood, metal, fiberglass, masonry, ceramic tile, marble, etc. It also adheres extremely well to fabric, as it turns out. It's thick, gap filling, and comes in a tube that you use with a caulking gun. There are two tube sizes, and the smaller produces a bead 30 lineal feet long.

I tried it on a scrap of 8oz polyester, which I commonly use for skinning kayaks. A 2-3" bead covered about a square foot of fabric, and was best applied with a rubber spatula. I put on a single coat. It spread quick and easy, though it was difficult to tell if I had completely covered an area. It only just changed the fabric color - making it look like it had been soaked in water. The glue did not migrate through the weave to the opposite side of the material. It filled the weave on the one side very well.

I let it dry for a few days (though dry time is much less), then examined it. The fabric was stiffer, but still easily fold-able. It did not hold a crease, and no cracks or chips were observed. I could not scrape it off with a fingernail, a board or then a brick. The finish is slightly glossy.
Then I tossed it into a tub of water - for 4 days. That's at least 86 hours longer than I've ever had a kayak continuously in the water, FYI.
After 4 days, the fabric and coating was entirely unchanged. It was still flexible, I still could not scrape off the coating, it showed no signs of delamination, cracking, peeling, etc. Making a cone of the scrap, and filling it with water, still produced zero leakage.

I do not know anything about its UV resistance, or its paint-ability. I surmise that dyeing the skin first - a common practice - would be the way to go for various skin colors. When I get time, I'll paint some and see what happens. It is "moisture curing," so perhaps mixing acrylic or watercolor paints into it might work to tint it. I'll have to experiment with that, too. Calling the manufacturer seems like a good idea, as well.

In sum, my initial trials are leading me to the conclusion that this could be a very viable, easy to apply, very tough and - at $3-4/tube - not particularly expensive skin coating option. I have a boat in mind that I will try it on, and I, of course, invite any of you SOF builders to try it, too - on a piece of scrap, or perhaps an entire boat.

1185
Dave Gentry
Specs here:
http://files.buildsite.com/dbderived-f/pl/derived_files/derived267834.pdf

Gerarddm
10-31-2010, 10:58 AM
Interesting. Now to see how it holds up under extended use-flexing, etc.

Ian McColgin
10-31-2010, 11:11 AM
The company's sheet does NOT recommend for water submerged uses. This could, of course, be like the way epoxy is not considered waterproof -- so long as you don't boil your boat perhaps it's good enough.

oznabrag
10-31-2010, 11:19 AM
I used PL Premium in lieu of stitching on Bamboozler.

She's not launched yet, but the seams seem indestructible.

It occurs to me that, if one were to use it as a coating, it could be squeezed out into a bowl and thinned a little with mineral spirits.

Cuyahoga Chuck
10-31-2010, 11:33 AM
Your idea is awefully close to using bed-liner and you know how much traction that got.
The reason this stuff can be dispenced from a tube is it is full of fillers. I can't see what the fillers will do for you other than run up the weight. And the high filler content means there might not be enough glue available to saturate the cloth all the way thru'. So whatever benefits you may gain on the outside may penalize you on the inside.

DGentry
10-31-2010, 12:36 PM
I don't have any emotional investment in this, but in the defense of fillers - I always have to coat a SOF with 3-4 coats of paint or varnish to fill the weave of the fabric. The PL did the same with just one coat, so perhaps the weight would ultimately be about equal. It doesn't look like any bed liner that I have ever seen.

None of the skin coatings I have used have saturated the cloth all the way through, so I'm not sure that's a concern.

My impression is that - beyond waterproofness - flexibility, and abrasion resistance are pretty key, and my initial observations indicate that the PL is excellent in those areas.
Of course there are already a number or other options that provide these characteristics, but I have yet to see any of them available in every hardware store in the country.

Robert W. Long
10-31-2010, 01:04 PM
My concern is how this product will adhere to itself, as in patching a hole or recoating an area. I have experienced trouble with this on one of my kayaks coated with 2 part poly from spirit line formulated especially for skin on frame boats. This stuff absolutley will not adhere to itself nor will any other product I have tried. I have tried epo, silicone adhesive, wet suit goop etc. to seal over holes, around deck line holes, carrying handle holes and nothing seem to stick at all. If this pl premium will adhere to itself I might give it a try when I build Ruth.

DGentry
10-31-2010, 01:12 PM
Robert, on your Corey's goop covered boat, try patching or recoating areas from the inside of the boat, where none of the spiritline stuff is . . . .
I suspect you may have figured that out already, though.
With Ruth, there should be little need for abrasion resistance, and I still recommend ZAR exterior oil based polyurethane varnish as being just about perfect. But, by all means, try the PL if you'd like. I don't know how well it adheres to itself, if at all, but I seem to recall someone respectable saying it does. Easy to test, in any case.

G. Schollmeier
10-31-2010, 05:09 PM
This had crossed my mind but never tried it. Some tests are in order. Thanks for this post.

Chip-skiff
10-31-2010, 07:11 PM
I wonder whether one of the SikaFlex products, polyurethane adhesive caulk that is rated for immersion, would perform as well. I just used SikaFlex 201 to glue and seal decks to the hull on a skiff. I think the cost, in quantity, is about the same.

OnionEyes
08-20-2011, 06:30 PM
Any follow-up on this?

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-20-2011, 09:03 PM
http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/index.cgi/page/1/md/read/id/208339/sbj/skin-on-frame-durability-of-pl-premium-coating/