A gentle welcome to our new friends.

[TomF]

Recently, I've noticed an influx of new friends here on the WBF. Friends who are deeply committed to political issues, and seem bent on redressing the WBF's perceived list to the Port.

I remember similar influxes of political friends in the weeks leading up to previous American elections. What a wonderful irony, that precisely when politics are heating up in the American heartland, so many on the Right find the time to discover the subtle joys of wooden boats.

It's almost as if ... well ... as if some of the allegations from previous elections were true. And posters descended onto forums that delved into politics to become rather entrepreneurial - paid on a piece-work basis for spreading the word. Hmmm ... I'm sure such tactics have been abandoned by now though.

I'm gonna do my best to not react to the vileness of things such as calls to restrict voting to only "acceptable" sub-groups of the population. And to the name-calling. I may not make it without a whole bunch of slip-ups though, as democracy, human rights, and accurate statements of facts are pretty important to me.

But if I do manage to hold my tongue as much as I want (and more than I suspect) and you're still here after the November date rolls past, maybe we can talk then about wooden boats, or religion, or yes politics.

But based on what's happened in years past, I won't be holding my breath to see you here a week after the election, if then.

[Phillip Allen]

I think you oughta hold your breath, Tom...I'll let ya know when ya can breathe again :)

[John of Phoenix]

Paid by the post, eh? Tea Party or RNC? What a way to make a living.

[Phillip Allen]

Paid by the post, eh? Tea Party or RNC? What a way to make a living.

we used to say that about lj...he was finally beaten down though

(anyway, I was only being jocose with Tom)

[Norman Bernstein]

I'm gonna do my best to not react to the vileness of things such as calls to restrict voting to only "acceptable" sub-groups of the population. And to the name-calling. I may not make it without a whole bunch of slip-ups though, as democracy, human rights, and accurate statements of facts are pretty important to me..

I appreciate and commend the sentiment, Tom.... although I will freely admit this: there's a limit to what I can personally tolerate in the name of being open minded and accepting of alternative opinions, and the limit is being sorely tested as of recently.

[TomF]

Paid by the post, eh? Tea Party or RNC? What a way to make a living.Speculation only, of courrse. But the breed seems familiar.

[John of Phoenix]

LJ beaten down? Only in your dreams.

[TomF]

I appreciate and commend the sentiment, Tom.... although I will freely admit this: there's a limit to what I can personally tolerate in the name of being open minded and accepting of alternative opinions, and the limit is being sorely tested as of recently.Yeah. But don't boil over and get banned. I think, frankly, such is one of the goals - silence the other side.

[Bruce Hooke]

Well said Tom!

I look at the more extreme comments like the guy who was advocating voting be based on how much you pay in taxes and figure that such "gentlemen" are doing just fine at metaphorically hanging themselves without my assistance. Nothing I could say would change such a person's mind and any reasonable person does not need my comments to see how idiotic the guy's idea is.

[pefjr]

Recently, I've noticed an influx of new friends here on the WBF. Friends who are deeply committed to political issues, and seem bent on redressing the WBF's perceived list to the Port.

I remember similar influxes of political friends in the weeks leading up to previous American elections. What a wonderful irony, that precisely when politics are heating up in the American heartland, so many on the Right find the time to discover the subtle joys of wooden boats.

It's almost as if ... well ... as if some of the allegations from previous elections were true. And posters descended onto forums that delved into politics to become rather entrepreneurial - paid on a piece-work basis for spreading the word. Hmmm ... I'm sure such tactics have been abandoned by now though.

I'm gonna do my best to not react to the vileness of things such as calls to restrict voting to only "acceptable" sub-groups of the population. And to the name-calling. I may not make it without a whole bunch of slip-ups though, as democracy, human rights, and accurate statements of facts are pretty important to me.

But if I do manage to hold my tongue as much as I want (and more than I suspect) and you're still here after the November date rolls past, maybe we can talk then about wooden boats, or religion, or yes politics.

But based on what's happened in years past, I won't be holding my breath to see you here a week after the election, if then.That's your gentle welcome? looks like a nudge toward the exit.

[Kaa]

Recently, I've noticed an influx of new friends here on the WBF. Friends who are deeply committed to political issues, and seem bent on redressing the WBF's perceived list to the Port.

I remember similar influxes of political friends in the weeks leading up to previous American elections. What a wonderful irony, that precisely when politics are heating up in the American heartland, so many on the Right find the time to discover the subtle joys of wooden boats.

It's almost as if ... well ... as if some of the allegations from previous elections were true. And posters descended onto forums that delved into politics to become rather entrepreneurial - paid on a piece-work basis for spreading the word. Hmmm ... I'm sure such tactics have been abandoned by now though.

I'm gonna do my best to not react to the vileness of things such as calls to restrict voting to only "acceptable" sub-groups of the population. And to the name-calling. I may not make it without a whole bunch of slip-ups though, as democracy, human rights, and accurate statements of facts are pretty important to me.

But if I do manage to hold my tongue as much as I want (and more than I suspect) and you're still here after the November date rolls past, maybe we can talk then about wooden boats, or religion, or yes politics.

But based on what's happened in years past, I won't be holding my breath to see you here a week after the election, if then.

The executive summary: F*** you, you whoring political scum :D

Gentle welcome, indeed.

Kaa

[David G]

Kaa,

Say... you're very good. Have you ever considered a career as an interpreter?

Will you be joining Tom in voicing a similar welcome to whoring political scum?

[oznabrag]

That's your gentle welcome? looks like a nudge toward the exit.

A lot more gentle than I would have been, if I had been in charge of the welcoming committee.

A LOT.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

That's your gentle welcome? looks like a nudge toward the exit.

Don't let the door hit your butt on the way out.

[Phillip Allen]

LJ beaten down? Only in your dreams.

do you enjoy carrying water for that small minded guy? He'll throw you under the bus so fast you won't have time to pull your pants up

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

The executive summary: F*** you, you whoring political scum :D

Gentle welcome, indeed.

Kaa

Ditto to this guy... Go on git.

[Phillip Allen]

Ditto to this guy... Go on git.

okay Peter...I gotta step in here..."git" is strictly a Southern term and you haven't earned license to use it :)

[Y Bar Ranch]

...the WBF's perceived list to the Port.

It's hardly noticeable if you're not paying attention


http://www.wired.com/images/article/magazine/1603/ff_seacowboys_p2.jpg

[oznabrag]

do you enjoy carrying water for that small minded guy? He'll through you under the bus so fast you won't have time to pull your pants up

I don't see it that way, Phillip. LJ tends to be pompous, but he usually has his shtuff together. If the two of you could figure out how to actually talk to one another, I think both of you would be amazed.

[Kaa]

Will you be joining Tom in voicing a similar welcome to whoring political scum?

Nope. I take my beliefs in the freedom of thought and speech fairly seriously.

Kaa

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

It's hardly noticeable if you're not paying attention




Oh brother.

[Phillip Allen]

I don't see it that way, Phillip. LJ tends to be pompous, but he usually has his shtuff together. If the two of you could figure out how to actually talk to one another, I think both of you would be amazed.

I have made some SERIOUS efforts over the years and he still demands I get on my knees and beg his forgiveness every time he gets the chance...I have run out of cheeks

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Lj has one favourite dislike.... stupidity/ignorance. The fact that it's mostly right wing troglodytes on this forum that possess this quality... ooooh well.

[pefjr]

It's hardly noticeable if you're not paying attention


http://www.wired.com/images/article/magazine/1603/ff_seacowboys_p2.jpgThis must be Glenn Beck's Yacht. It's not a port list.

[Y Bar Ranch]

It's not a port list.
You think he's running bow down?

[pefjr]

You think he's running bow down?I can't tell, maybe it is port.

[Bruce Hooke]

You think he's running bow down?

Whatever the heck that ship is running, it sure ain't pretty, and wouldn't be even floating properly. That's one unbelievably ugly ship!

[Tall Boy]

Well, let me endeavor to clarify just why I’m here. There is a thread on the Lady Ada restoration that I’ve been following with great interest. I was the captain of the schooner during the late seventies and early eighties. Like my great great grandfather on down, I’ve been a boat builder and professional sailor all my life. So, that said, does my opinion matter any more or less; or is it east coast only need apply, or, is respect in this forum directly proportionate to one’s post count?

Funny, I’ve been on the scratch boat in a whole lot of wooden boat races and after sweeping the perpetual and class trophies, the majority of the fleet (with the exception of the big schooners and meter boats) were somewhat surprised that we were actually taking the race seriously. That’s OK I like a parade like anyone else. But I’ll tell you this; nothing ……..absolutely nothing is better than blowing by a gaffer that had a 40 minute head start, tacking around them and still finishing 10 minutes ahead just because the owner made some stupid comment about the slightly frayed condition of our widows net at the skippers meeting.

Woody boat enough for you, or should I just remove myself from this little mutual admiration society on the grounds that I don’t politically see eye to eye with the gang.

[Y Bar Ranch]

They had a show on Discovery, I think, about it. A car carrier on the Japan-US route. A Marine Salvage company went out and recovered it. It was full of autos for the US market.

The kicker was the auto manufacturer ended up grinding all of the cars into scrap metal to avoid any liability issues with the cars having been sitting on their sides for a few weeks.

[pefjr]

Well, let me endeavor to clarify just why I’m here. There is a thread on the Lady Ada restoration that I’ve been following with great interest. I was the captain of the schooner during the late seventies and early eighties. Like my great great grandfather on down, I’ve been a boat builder and professional sailor all my life. So, that said, does my opinion matter any more or less; or is it east coast only need apply, or, is respect in this forum directly proportionate to one’s post count?

Funny, I’ve been on the scratch boat in a whole lot of wooden boat races and after sweeping the perpetual and class trophies, the majority of the fleet (with the exception of the big schooners and meter boats) were somewhat surprised that we were actually taking the race seriously. That’s OK I like a parade like anyone else. But I’ll tell you this; nothing ……..absolutely nothing is better than blowing by a gaffer that had a 40 minute head start, tacking around them and still finishing 10 minutes ahead just because the owner made some stupid comment about the slightly frayed condition of our widows net at the skippers meeting.

Woody boat enough for you, or should I just remove myself from this little mutual admiration society on the grounds that I don’t politically see eye to eye with the gang. Well, these lefties need to know your political leanings to decide. Others will welcome you.

[Iceboy]

Well, let me endeavor to clarify just why I’m here. There is a thread on the Lady Ada restoration that I’ve been following with great interest. I was the captain of the schooner during the late seventies and early eighties. Like my great great grandfather on down, I’ve been a boat builder and professional sailor all my life. So, that said, does my opinion matter any more or less; or is it east coast only need apply, or, is respect in this forum directly proportionate to one’s post count?

Funny, I’ve been on the scratch boat in a whole lot of wooden boat races and after sweeping the perpetual and class trophies, the majority of the fleet (with the exception of the big schooners and meter boats) were somewhat surprised that we were actually taking the race seriously. That’s OK I like a parade like anyone else. But I’ll tell you this; nothing ……..absolutely nothing is better than blowing by a gaffer that had a 40 minute head start, tacking around them and still finishing 10 minutes ahead just because the owner made some stupid comment about the slightly frayed condition of our widows net at the skippers meeting.

Woody boat enough for you, or should I just remove myself from this little mutual admiration society on the grounds that I don’t politically see eye to eye with the gang.

I say welcome aboard. Pay no attention to the rabble. Me included.

[JBreeze]

Paid by the post, eh? Tea Party or RNC? What a way to make a living.


I wondered the same about Boston, who only wrote, many times, defenses of Israel's policies vis-a-vis the Palestinians.

[oznabrag]

I have made some SERIOUS efforts over the years and he still demands I get on my knees and beg his forgiveness every time he gets the chance...I have run out of cheeks

I understand that, Phil. He does tend to be a snob, and I think it's more than a little sad for both of you.

[Kaa]

Woody boat enough for you, or should I just remove myself from this little mutual admiration society on the grounds that I don’t politically see eye to eye with the gang.

Well, keep in mind that this is the bilge. It's darkish, dirty-ish, and the liquid sloshing around has pronounced mutagenic and psychoactive effects. The bilge is inhabited by rats with big pointy teeth and temperaments to match. Sensitive and thin-skinned souls generally run away screaming or become lunch. :D

Kaa

[pefjr]

I wondered the same about Boston, who only wrote, many times, defenses of Israel's policies vis-a-vis the Palestinians.:d We know where to go now if we need a loan til sadaday. Norman must be making a fortune.

[BrianW]

This must be Glenn Beck's Yacht. It's not a port list.

http://www.wired.com/images/article/magazine/1603/ff_seacowboys_p2.jpg

Unless they removed the prop, I'd have to guess we're looking at the bow. The anchor might be a clue too. ;)

That be a port list.

One of the recovery team slid to his death inside it. :(

[huisjen]

I say welcome aboard. Pay no attention to the rabble. Me included.

I'll wait until mid-November to render an opinion. It's like Tom said....

Dan

[B_B]

we used to say that about lj...
Your man crush is pretty entertaining.

[marshcat]

Not to be paranoid, but I think Ravi Zacharias or his publicist might have joined the forum recently.

[TomF]

Helluva translation, Kaa! :D I think you missed a bit of the nuance.

I'm all for free speech. Even the speech of RWW's lobbing in incendiary comments, possibly by posters-for-hire, and possibly with the goal of stilling some of the voices of established Dem-sympathetic posters through induced self-immolation.

Nope - they're certainly entitled to free speech. So am I; this thread is one place where I've exercized it.

And yeah, doubtless there are other folks who (like any other time) found the WBF through any of the ways that most of us found it ... and happen to want to play in the political discussions. You guys really are welcome, in my view. But if your views are expressed in rather, er, incendiary terms, forgive me for not engaging you a lot down here 'till I see you in November ... or see you posting a fair bit upstairs.

[Dave Gray]

.. Sensitive and thin-skinned souls generally run away screaming or become lunch...

Kaa

New headline:
WoodenBoat Forum Inhabited by Soul Eaters!

[pefjr]

Not to be paranoid, but I think Ravi Zacharias or his publicist might have joined the forum recently.:d..

[nw_noob]

Am I the only one here that suspects some of the more extreme right-wing persona's are nothing more than comical alter-ego's created by bilge lefty's?

I'm talking the 30 posts and banned type of characters here. Come to think of it, I haven't seen that Blight guy for a while... now some knucklehead is posting about how voting should be the exclusive right of smart wealthy people... kinda suspicious if ya ask me.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I've been here a while, and the crazy right and left tend to have multiple reincarnations... (The mysterious Dutch etc).... but for the most part the people who get "attacked" or "swarmed" by the so called left are usually right wingers without a single fact in their head. Funny, conservatism in a lot of places seems to be this sludge of philosophies that are mostly lies... you know, the idea that anyone can get ahead if they work hard enough-therefore all welfare cases are lazy...racism is a thing of past, Guns are wunnerful, support our military decisions or you're a traitor... blah blah blah. It's fairly tiresome stupidity... not even interesting stupidity. Just garden variety ignorance of how most of the world works. Oh well. Yawn.

[pefjr]

Am I the only one here that suspects some of the more extreme right-wing persona's are nothing more than comical alter-ego's created by bilge lefty's?

I'm talking the 30 posts and banned type of characters here. Come to think of it, I haven't seen that Blight guy for a while... now some knucklehead is posting about how voting should be the exclusive right of smart wealthy people... kinda suspicious if ya ask me.You might be the only one.:DI don't think Tom intended this thread to be comical, but......

[nw_noob]

Ya gotta admit Bud, some of the stuff you hear in this place is so far right it sounds like a caricature of an extremist... the far lefty stuff seems to be much more moderate in tone.

I'm just waiting for somebody to come along talking about their new rascal scooter, diabetes meds, medicare payout problems, hatred of that socialist Obama, and proud tea party patriot status.

[Garret]

No, actually that was ACORN.

Curious.... You have 15 posts. All to political threads. Have ya got anything to do with boats or, for that matter, any interest in boats? Or are you one of the folks this thread is referring to?

There was a post about "bilge cred" some time ago. IIRC, it mentioned the advisability of posting once or twice above decks first....

edit: No the # of posts isn't a problem, just that 100% are to political threads.

[Donn]

I believe the notion of 'Bilge Cred' was started by a member (who shall remain brainl...er..nameless) who has started and posted to more political threads than any other member.

[Garret]

I believe the notion of 'Bilge Cred' was started by a member (who shall remain brainl...er..nameless) who has started and posted to more political threads than any other member.

:d

This Zodiac guy does make one wonder though....

[Donn]

Isn't Zodiac a brand of inflatable dinghy?

[pefjr]

Curious.... You have 15 posts. All to political threads. Have ya got anything to do with boats or, for that matter, any interest in boats? Or are you one of the folks this thread is referring to?

There was a post about "bilge cred" some time ago. IIRC, it mentioned the advisability of posting once or twice above decks first....

edit: No the # of posts isn't a problem, just that 100% are to political threads.Where are those rules? or cred? Is there an active effort to limit new or old members by politics?

[TomF]

Ya gotta admit Bud, some of the stuff you hear in this place is so far right it sounds like a caricature of an extremist... the far lefty stuff seems to be much more moderate in tone....To quote the thought of someone who many would consider an actual "far Lefty" ...

... Noam Chomsky's notion of the manufacture of consent is useful here. I haven't seen anyone being reported in National media actually asking for "radical Lefty" stuff, though maybe I missed it:

Permanent nationalization of the banking industry?
Nationalization of all existing Health Insurance firms, and payment of all health providers via Govt. salary rather than free market?
Permanent nationalization of the entire auto industry? Or other sectors of heavy industry and manufacturing?
Taxation on a steep enough curve to essentially eliminate any financial incentive to earn more than perhaps 1.5X the current median income?
Those things aren't collectivization, Bolshevik style, but they're pretty hard-nosed Socialism. Where is it? Anybody heard Obama advocate any of it?

On the other hand, we've heard many Tea Party people say quite extreme things - veiled threats about using 2nd Amendment rights to forcibly take back Government, for instance.

The point is - the realm of "legitimate" discussion has been expanded to the Right, by virtue of the Tea Party and others defining the R-wing goal post way down the field from where it used to be. Now that they're defined as "radical," much that wasn't really thinkable before ... appears to be middle of the road.

In contrast, the Left has not got extremists frothing about at the same distance at the other end of the spectrum. "Radical Lefty" means thinking about maybe including a single-payer option alongside free-market health insurance firms. Or taking a temporary equity position in GM, in return for an infusion of billions of dollars.

Chomsky was right - by defining precisely who is a screaming weenie at the far reaches of the debate, you define what's "middle-of-the-road" thinkable. The fact that the Tea Party's defined the screaming weenies to the Right, and haven't been countered by equally wacko weenies to the Left means that the centre of the political field has been allowed to shift.

[pefjr]

Ya gotta admit Bud, some of the stuff you hear in this place is so far right it sounds like a caricature of an extremist... the far lefty stuff seems to be much more moderate in tone.

True, but Norm tries to make up for that with great #'s of Palin and Repub worship threads.. :D

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I believe the notion of 'Bilge Cred' was started by a member (who shall remain brainl...er..nameless) who has started and posted to more political threads than any other member.

and here we have a good example: Someone who in the past has physically threatened forum members..... and supported the use of torture. How do you counter that?

[nw_noob]

Good point Tom. I drew a little diagram the other day that I think illustrates Chomsky's point:

http://i.imgur.com/fnLwq.jpg

[Garret]

Where are those rules? or cred? Is there an active effort to limit new or old members by politics?

Nope - not at all! If you look at my post, what I asked was:


Curious.... You have 15 posts. All to political threads. Have ya got anything to do with boats or, for that matter, any interest in boats?

I find it curious (& even more so in light of this thread) that someone would come to a forum about wood boats & post nothing about boats. That's all. I could care less what side of the political spectrum he(she) is coming from.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Look at Puffy Jr's post list... not too much about boats. I don't think he even has a boat anymore.

[David G]

I guess Tom just isn't as redneck as me. He politely (if satirically) gives notice that he is not liable to engage with, nor take very seriously, people who show up just before election time and post nothing but political screeds.

I am likely to have a stronger reaction. Don't get me wrong... I have nothing against New Blood. We were all once new blood. I ofttimes feel like a newbie. That's not what Tom was talking about, and not what I'd be reacting to. Fact is - I'm just not likely to take kindly to some political paratroopers skydiving into our forum for the sole purpose of perpetrating propaganda.

Maybe some folks will welcome such tactics - as long as the perp supports their own politics. I don't care what their politics are - I'm not interested in being manipulated in that way.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Well said David.

[nw_noob]

I find it curious (& even more so in light of this thread) that someone would come to a forum about wood boats & post nothing about boats. That's all. I could care less what side of the political spectrum he(she) is coming from.

I may appear that way, it's because I have nothing to contribute to boat discussions. I just read the threads and learn. I guess I could turn this into my personal facebook and post "I like this!" every time I see a cool boat... I don't think people want to see that though.

[Bruce Hooke]

Well, let me endeavor to clarify just why I’m here. ...

Hi Tall Boy,

Welcome to the forum.

One of the problems with Internet forums is that anyone can say anything about themselves and especially if they post under a handle that does not identify who they really are, nobody can know whether they are telling the truth. One result is that on a forum like this you are judged by what you actually say on the forum. So, keeping that in mind, my experience has been that some of the key the ways to establish credibility and respect here are (note that I am not saying that you have or have not done any of these things, I am just laying out some principles):

1. Follow the forum rules...profanity, slanderous comments, threats and the like will get you banned sooner or later and will get you ignored by many sooner rather than later. This is by and large a fairly sharp crowd and someone who can't express themselves without resorting to foul language or personal attacks will not get much respect.

2. Contribute to the threads where people are genuinely looking for help. In your case, given your experience, I'd expect you'd have a lot to add to various discussions in the boat-related part of the forum. Yes, many of us spend a lot more time yacking in the "bilge" but we also pitch in when someone needs help.

3. If you are going to engage in political debates, have your ducks in a row as far as your arguments go. Folks may not love someone who espouses political views very different from their own, but you will get a fair amount of respect if you can logically lay out your positions and defend them with good arguments and without resorting to personal attacks.

4. Stick around for a while. This does not mean you need to have a high post count. It does mean that if you are here today and gone after the election in November you will not get as much respect as those who stick around and become part of the community. Also, longevity will earn you some "slack" when you slip up...and we all slip up occasionally.

5. If you want to get deep into the political debates, develop a bit of thick skin. You can expect to give as good as you get. If feeling like you are loosing a debate makes you fly off the handle, it may be best to not engage in such debates at all.

Cheers,
Bruce

[Bruce Hooke]

I may appear that way, it's because I have nothing to contribute to boat discussions. I just read the threads and learn. I guess I could turn this into my personal facebook and post "I like this!" every time I see a cool boat... I don't think people want to see that though.

I think it is very fair to stay quiet on the boat threads if you are in the learning phase. Do feel free to ask questions if you are genuinely interested in learning!

It is worth keeping in mind that we almost all have some area of expertise and it is most welcome if, when questions in your area of expertise come up (even if the question has nothing to do with boats), you pitch in a bit to help out. The questions in the bilge range across a broad range of topics...many are political but some are real requests for solutions to problems...

[pefjr]

Look at Puffy Jr's post list... not too much about boats. I don't think he even has a boat anymore.Yes, lets do that, or better yet I 'll confirm it and save you the trouble. So, now what?

[Garret]

I may appear that way, it's because I have nothing to contribute to boat discussions. I just read the threads and learn. I guess I could turn this into my personal facebook and post "I like this!" every time I see a cool boat... I don't think people want to see that though.

Yeah - but you got in well before the elections...:d

And - you do have posts in non-political threads.

[pefjr]

I guess Tom just isn't as redneck as me. He politely (if satirically) gives notice that he is not liable to engage with, nor take very seriously, people who show up just before election time and post nothing but political screeds.

I am likely to have a stronger reaction. Don't get me wrong... I have nothing against New Blood. We were all once new blood. I ofttimes feel like a newbie. That's not what Tom was talking about, and not what I'd be reacting to. Fact is - I'm just not likely to take kindly to some political paratroopers skydiving into our forum for the sole purpose of perpetrating propaganda.

Maybe some folks will welcome such tactics - as long as the perp supports their own politics. I don't care what their politics are - I'm not interested in being manipulated in that way.manipulated? :dHow is a post on WBF manipulative?

[pefjr]

Donn, what was that you said not long ago? Something about someone left the asylum computer room door open.

[Donn]

Donn, what was that you said not long ago? Something about someone left the asylum computer room door open.

I remember...but not who it was about.

[pefjr]

I remember...but not who it was about.I don't remember who either but the immature post to you reminded me of your humor.

[David G]

manipulated? :dHow is a post on WBF manipulative?

When: some political paratroopers <are> skydiving into our forum for the sole purpose of perpetrating propaganda.

You're not very quick on the uptake today, are ya? Or is the denseness deliberate?

[Kaa]

When: some political paratroopers <are> skydiving into our forum for the sole purpose of perpetrating propaganda.

Isn't it manipulative only if you allow it to manipulate you?

For example, I don't feel manipulated by Norman's tireless reposting of the Dem's talking-points-of-the-day. Why would you feel manipulated by right-wing posts, especially if, as you claim, you can easily recognize them as crude and stupid?

Kaa

[pefjr]

When: some political paratroopers <are> skydiving into our forum for the sole purpose of perpetrating propaganda.

You're not very quick on the uptake today, are ya? Or is the denseness deliberate?I guess not, I saw no skydivers waving Bush- 3 terms- YES. But I have seen much propaganda. Mainly from one member that may have escaped from an asylum in a foreign country to the north. I was able to recognize it and was not manipulated. Please forgive my slow reaction. Should we call up the reserves? :D

[oznabrag]

Isn't Zodiac a brand of inflatable dingy?

Fixed that forya.

[Y Bar Ranch]

When: some political paratroopers <are> skydiving into our forum for the sole purpose of perpetrating propaganda.
I think the "Islam just needs a hug" mass message brought a few down here chasing the bait.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Yes, lets do that, or better yet I 'll confirm it and save you the trouble. So, now what?


So why are you here? You're not a boater, you don't contribute to people needing help with their boats, and you don't seem to contribute anything except your own opinion down here. What's your purpose on this forum? Do you even buy the magazine?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

. Please forgive my slow reaction.

It is really really tiresome, but you still keep coming back.

[ccmanuals]

Curious.... You have 15 posts. All to political threads. Have ya got anything to do with boats or, for that matter, any interest in boats? Or are you one of the folks this thread is referring to?

There was a post about "bilge cred" some time ago. IIRC, it mentioned the advisability of posting once or twice above decks first....

edit: No the # of posts isn't a problem, just that 100% are to political threads.

Bingo.

[pefjr]

What were they doing behind the bus with their pants down? Sounds like a Barney Frank town hall meeting or something.OK, since no lefties has attacked you for your lack of gay sensitivity, I am going to venture out and risk the ridicule of welcoming you to WBF for your humor alone. Just keep the propaganda down and try not frighten or manipulate David G., or badmouth our Oregon Ducks.

[pefjr]

So why are you here? You're not a boater, you don't contribute to people needing help with their boats, and you don't seem to contribute anything except your own opinion down here. What's your purpose on this forum? Do you even buy the magazine?nunya

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

So this is a thread that basically points to people like you..... just insensitive politically based posts. No personal stuff, no contributions to other members, and on top of that you think that jokes about violence to women are funny.... and now gay jokes are funny. You're a real POS.

Nunya? I'm afraid not. I buy Woodenboat magazine, I have wooden boats, I try to contribute something to other wooden boat owners and restorers here, and I donate when I can to causes that have come up..... That is part of being a member here in my opinion.

You, on the other hand are kind of a parasite.... no real use, but always around.

Even people I disagree with, like Donn Westervelt, don't go as far as you .... He always has gardening advice that is golden, posts stuff about woodenboats, and donates to causes. I respect that, even if I don't agree. You and your kind... not so much.

[Flying Orca]

the far lefty stuff seems to be much more moderate in tone.

That's 'cause there ain't a far lefty in the joint.

[oznabrag]

That's 'cause there ain't a far lefty in the joint.

I'm thinking that all the 'far leftys' in the US could fit in The Elbow Room in Columbus. Mississippi.

[David G]

Isn't it manipulative only if you allow it to manipulate you?

For example, I don't feel manipulated by Norman's tireless reposting of the Dem's talking-points-of-the-day. Why would you feel manipulated by right-wing posts, especially if, as you claim, you can easily recognize them as crude and stupid?

Kaa

Kaa,

You really should read more carefully, and think more clearly.

If you review the bidding you'll find that my objections didn't have anything to do with being exposed to "right-wing posts". Isn't it rather pointless for you to misrepresent my position then argue against the new iteration you've created? Interestingly enough, here's one definition of manipulation:

3. to adapt or change (accounts, figures, etc.) to suit one's purpose or advantage.


You're partially correct, though, about allowing oneself to be manipulated. Some definitions of manipulation contain the assumption that an attempt to manipulate was successful. This is not what I was referencing. Other definitions refer to the attempt and the intent. This is the connotation I had in mind. In another sense, I was also referring to the manipulation of the WBF itself, in the way of this definition:

1. to influence, esp. in an unfair manner: to manipulate people's feelings.

The 'unfair manner' in this case, I'd view as people who would barge in here for purposes that are less than transparent and above-board. People, in other words, who aren't Forum members, don't intend to become Forum members, aren't here because of boats, and aren't interested in dialogue. People whose only intent is to influence the upcoming election, then leave.


Now... if such folks were to drop by, and actually contribute to the discussion, I don't think I'd mind much. What would that look like for me? They'd be strongly partisan from either left or right (no hope for anything else). But they'd share information that could be verified as correct. They'd engage with folks who responded to their posts, and defend their positions. They'd remain civil (at least to the relaxed standard of the Bilge). Anything less will find me bristling. Oh... and if they were honest enough to admit their intentions from the get-go... that'd be a big plus, eh?

You say you don't feel manipulated by Norm's postings. Good for you. I wasn't suggesting that you should, or reasonably would. I don't either. Nor do I feel manipulated by comparable postings from the other side of the aisle. As I said before (yes, you really do need to practice reading for comprehension) it's not such posts - no matter how partisan - that my comments were objecting to. Again, refer back to paragraph one thru three of this response.

[Tom Montgomery]

Most people join the WBF simply to peruse the info available above deck. A handful of them check out the Bilge. A portion of that handful choose to post in the Bilge. A fraction of that portion become Bilge regulars.

[nw_noob]

That's 'cause there ain't a far lefty in the joint.

Think left in terms of American politics. Some here are downright radicals compared to what passes for a liberal democrat in our system.

Remember, our congressional democrats never really pushed single payer health insurance, despite debating health care reform longer than any other issue in history. But you're right, we are short a couple Marxists around here if the whole spectrum is going to be covered.

[Tom Montgomery]

But you're right, we are short a couple Marxists around here if the whole spectrum is going to be covered.

I'm willing to volunteer to represent the REAL leftist view.

I am not a REAL leftist. But I am willing, for s--ts and giggles, to do my best to play devil's advocate.

[oznabrag]

I'm willing to volunteer to represent the REAL leftist view.

I am not a REAL leftist. But I am willing, for s--ts and giggles, to do my best to play devil's advocate.

Hit it, dude!

[nw_noob]

I'm willing to volunteer to represent the REAL leftist view.

I am not a REAL leftist. But I am willing, for s--ts and giggles, to do my best to play devil's advocate.

Hey, somebody's got to. I tried it once here, but was pretty bad at it.

[pefjr]

So this is a thread that basically points to people like you..... just insensitive politically based posts. No personal stuff, no contributions to other members, and on top of that you think that jokes about violence to women are funny.... and now gay jokes are funny. You're a real POS.

Nunya? I'm afraid not. I buy Woodenboat magazine, I have wooden boats, I try to contribute something to other wooden boat owners and restorers here, and I donate when I can to causes that have come up..... That is part of being a member here in my opinion.

You, on the other hand are kind of a parasite.... no real use, but always around.

Even people I disagree with, like Donn Westervelt, don't go as far as you .... He always has gardening advice that is golden, posts stuff about woodenboats, and donates to causes. I respect that, even if I don't agree. You and your kind... not so much.I have not been advised by WB of your authority to question me. I am not in Canada. Do you have any US credentials for questioning me on the # of magazines, boats, or other information(Humor politics) you are requesting or have criticized?

BTW, I think I must have about 2/300 WB Magazines laying around if you need one for information or care of that wooden boat you say you own. Not that I don't believe you, but we like pictures. Of all the contributions you brag on, I have never seen a picture of your collection of wooden boats.

Your POS parasite buddy,

[oznabrag]

...

Your POS parasite ...,

Bud

Finally you post something that rings true.

[B_B]

... Of all the contributions you brag on, I have never seen a picture of your collection of wooden boats.
Definite evidence you really never get out of the bilge! Sweet goodness. :)

[pefjr]

Definite evidence you really never get out of the bilge! Sweet goodness. :)uh oh, is that a hanging offense?

[Donn]

uh oh, is that a hanging offense?

No. The libs are against the death penalty. They simply make you wish you were dead, but lack the cojones to actually put you to death.

[pefjr]

Has nothing to do with Barney being gay. I just used him because of his live-in "friend" running his pimp business out of their apartment a few years back. I picked on him for his lack of ethics, not for being gay.Yeah sure, that's why I thought it was funny too, lack of ethics. The joke is on the Canuck self appointed bilge SS troop that has jumped to conclusions and accused me of being insensitive to gays.

[B_B]

uh oh, is that a hanging offense?
No, but you bitched about not seeing pictures of Peter's boats. Most folks discuss their boats upstairs. He's posted many pics of his boats. Many fairly recently.

It's your M.O.: Post stuff about which you know nothing. Stuff for which ample evidence is available if only you'd do a little looking. You choose to remain ignorant. Sad, but true.

[pefjr]

No, but you bitched about not seeing pictures of Peter's boats. Most folks discuss their boats upstairs. He's posted many pics of his boats. Many fairly recently.

It's your M.O.: Post stuff about which you know nothing. Stuff for which ample evidence is available if only you'd do a little looking. You choose to remain ignorant. Sad, but true.Oh I could not possibly be ignorant for very long with you and that brainy Canuck bilge cop educating me. I didn't know you were in the M.O. business, thought you were clerking? Surely, even you know the difference between a request and a bitch. But go ahead and exaggerate, some will fall for it.

[B_B]

Oh I could not possibly be ignorant for very long with you and that brainy Canuck bilge cop educating me. I didn't know you were in the M.O. business, thought you were clerking?
Libs been schooling you ever since you arrived. No improvement in your abilities though. Blame the teachers.

[Milo Christensen]

Of all the contributions you brag on, I have never seen a picture of your collection of wooden boats.

Your POS parasite buddy,

Out of line here, buddy. PMJ has nice boats. PMJ has Dove. PMJ does Chris Craft restorations. You should apologize.

[Tom Montgomery]

What were they doing behind the bus with their pants down? Sounds like a Barney Frank town hall meeting or something.


OK, since no lefties has attacked you for your lack of gay sensitivity, I am going to venture out and risk the ridicule of welcoming you to WBF for your humor alone.

Has nothing to do with Barney being gay.... I picked on him for his lack of ethics, not for being gay.
Hmmm...

Only 23 posts and you already come across as a liar.

[oznabrag]

Out of line here, buddy. PMJ has nice boats. PMJ has Dove. PMJ does Chris Craft restorations. You should apologize.

I'll bet ya a bottle of beer that he never will apologize for anything. Ever.

[pefjr]

Libs been schooling you ever since you arrived. No improvement in your abilities though. Blame the teachers.I have no problem in the ability to detect your insecurity and weakness. Otherwise why the name calling and .......?

[oznabrag]

What did I tellya?

[Milo Christensen]

There's no doubt that pef's pushing PMJ pretty hard and being pushed pretty hard by PMJ. Good thing they're separated by about 1,200 miles. On the whole, this thread just sucks and needs to go away. Who started this monster anyway?

Edit: This is a TomF thread! Shame on you Tom, flush it and put the lid down like any housebroken, civilized man.

[Tom Montgomery]

Are you speaking to me, Milo?

If so, stuff it.* Zodiac's words belie his weak excuse. Bigots need to be called out.


* And I mean "stuff it" in the nicest possible way.

[pefjr]

Out of line here, buddy. PMJ has nice boats. PMJ has Dove. PMJ does Chris Craft restorations. You should apologize.Ok, I will take your word for that. What would I apologize for? I still have not seen any pictures. Does that give him any authority to try to bully me and call other members names and make moral judgements based on his political views? He is the one that owes me and others an apology. He owes many apologies from a long way back, and when I see one I might adjust my opinion of him.

[Tom Montgomery]

I suspect PMJ is beyond caring one way or the other about your, or any other Bilge resident's, opinion of him. A healthy attitude, IMHO.

[David G]

http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Braam Berrub http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=2731236#post2731236)
Libs been schooling you ever since you arrived. No improvement in your abilities though. Blame the teachers.


Posted by pefjr
I have no problem in the ability to detect your insecurity and weakness. Otherwise why the name calling and .......?


Not just the liberals who've been schooling him. I've been calling him on his bs since he arrived. It's had some small effect. But... he's old. He's set in his ways. He's not stupid, but he's not well educated. His ignorance and his stubbornness seem to combine to make him closed-minded.

He's never learned to articulate his thoughts well, or engage in any sort of productive give and take. That's why all the ducking, dodging, deflection, obfuscation, name-calling and one-liners. Sort of a less bright version of Donn.

I also suspect that he likes the attention that comes from being outrageous and buttheaded. It may be mostly negative attention, but at least it's some attention. Less bitter than Donn, but still Ornery Ol' Fart mentality.

Having grown up a redneck, I can relate to him quite easily. He shows many signs of having a good heart wrapped up protectively in that cussedness. I even kinda like him at times. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize what a doofus he can be.

There's always hope... I suppose... but I'm not laying any odds on any great change on jr's part. Just as any of us would if we wanted to grow beyond our current limitations - first he'd have to admit to himself that he's been mistaken in certain ways for years. That would take some active, purposeful, and brave work on his part. I doubt that he'd think it was worth it.

[pefjr]

I suspect PMJ is beyond caring one way or the other about your, or any other Bilge resident's, opinion of him. A healthy attitude, IMHO.I suspect that is your attitude except where SamF is concerned. You have an infected Achilles heel. Hardly healthy.

[Tristan]

Tom, be easy lad, Jeezus and Karl Rove will lead us all to the promised land of privatized everything and great wealth for the SUPER rich.

[Tom Montgomery]

I suspect PMJ is beyond caring one way or the other about your, or any other Bilge resident's, opinion of him. A healthy attitude, IMHO.

I suspect that is your attitude except where SamF is concerned. You have an infected Achilles heel. Hardly healthy.

Huh? I don't understand your meaning. Please explain.

[ccmanuals]

This discussion is starting to sound like my 5 year old grandkids arguing.

[oznabrag]

Huh? I don't understand your meaning. Please explain.

Let it go, Tom. That stuff between his ears ain't mud, ya know?

[pefjr]

http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Braam Berrub http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=2731236#post2731236)
Libs been schooling you ever since you arrived. No improvement in your abilities though. Blame the teachers.


Posted by pefjr
I have no problem in the ability to detect your insecurity and weakness. Otherwise why the name calling and .......?


Not just the liberals who've been schooling him. I've been calling him on his bs since he arrived. It's had some small effect. But... he's old. He's set in his ways. He's not stupid, but he's not well educated. His ignorance and his stubbornness seem to combine to make him closed-minded.

He's never learned to articulate his thoughts well, or engage in any sort of productive give and take. That's why all the ducking, dodging, deflection, obfuscation, name-calling and one-liners. Sort of a less bright version of Donn.

I also suspect that he likes the attention that comes from being outrageous and buttheaded. It may be mostly negative attention, but at least it's some attention. Less bitter than Donn, but still Ornery Ol' Fart mentality.

Having grown up a redneck, I can relate to him quite easily. He shows many signs of having a good heart wrapped up protectively in that cussedness. I even kinda like him at times. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize what a doofus he can be.

There's always hope... I suppose... but I'm not laying any odds on any great change on jr's part. First he'd have to admit to himself that he's been mistaken in certain ways for years. That would take some active, purposeful, and brave work on his part. I doubt that he'd think it was worth it.Another gang member chiming in. Your opinion of yourself is too high for me to reach DG. I wouldn't want to be accused of manipulation twice in one day.

[David G]

Huh? I don't understand your meaning. Please explain.

Another thing I've noticed, and shared with jr. - the more he realizes he's gotten off on the wrong foot, the more he becomes aware that he's on unsupportable ground, the more defensive he is feeling... the more cryptic and less coherent his comments become. And the more personal and insulting he becomes.

You can see a bit of this in his comments to me above (#116).

[Tom Montgomery]

Let it go, Tom. That stuff between his ears ain't mud, ya know?

I just did not understand pefjr's SammyF reference. I love SammyF. He made a friend of me forever some time ago. I will remain by his side so long as he posts to the WBF Bilge.

[pefjr]

Huh? I don't understand your meaning. Please explain.I am disagreeing with you on that attitude being healthy and using you as proof. You don't recall my PM and your rejection of it?

[Tom Montgomery]

I am disagreeing with you on that attitude being healthy and using you as proof. You don't recall my PM and your rejection of it?

No. I recall vaguely that you PM'd me with regard to SammyF. But I have no recollection of what you had to say.

This has to do with my attitude toward SammyF... how?

[Steve Zodiac]

Hmmm...

Only 23 posts and you already come across as a liar.

And you come across as an ignorant lib.

[pefjr]

No. This has to do with my attitude toward SammyF... how? I am in no mood for games.

[Tom Montgomery]

Nor am I. Frankly, your attitude is pissing me off.

[Tom Montgomery]

...you come across as an ignorant lib.

Well of course you think I do!

Your best bet, Scorpio, is to write as few words as possible so that there is the least chance of them coming back to bite you in the a$$.

[pefjr]

Hold your insults, slights, smart @ss remarks,gang warfare, DG's back patting(don't hurt your arm),etc, I have to eat dinner.

[Tom Montgomery]

Banned already. Go figure.

[ccmanuals]

wonder why it took so long. :)

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Well he asked. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/Dove/006-8.jpg?t=1285894508

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/Dove/013-9.jpg?t=1285894619

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/Dove/015-6.jpg?t=1285894673

[Glen Longino]

wonder why it took so long. :)

:D:D
Me too!

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

and...:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/Mary%20Elizabeth/ChrisCraftss1.jpg?t=1285894822

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/Mary%20Elizabeth/ss9.jpg?t=1285894867

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

and the big girl...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/Vanora/011-4.jpg?t=1285895002


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/Vanora/073.jpg?t=1285895076

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/Vanora/041-1.jpg?t=1285895122

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/Vanora/028-3.jpg?t=1285895190

[Glen Longino]

Ah, this thread has taken a sudden upturn!:)
Thanks PMJ!
TomF, please don't delete the thread.
Don't listen to Milo!

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

and Miz Sampson...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/MizSampson011.jpg?t=1285895388

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Sorry I don't have pics of the Peterborough's one is under the deck all wrapped up... 1952 Nymph, and a 1938 Pal dinghy. Oh and a couple of Fibreglass dinghies and about six outboards and a whole shop full of parts :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/ss2.jpg?t=1285895569

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/015-9.jpg?t=1285895649

[TomF]

No. The libs are against the death penalty. They simply make you wish you were dead, but lack the cojones to actually put you to death.think of it as assisted suicide :D

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Nancy's first sail in Dove... two years past..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/Dove/035.jpg?t=1285895940

[oznabrag]

wonder why it took so long. :)

We ignorant libs tend to be tolerant, to a fault.

[David G]

PMJ,

On the plus side of the ledger, I got to see all your boats in one place. I had no idea of the extent of your afflictio...errrrr, addictio....ummmm, I mean... collection <G>

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I am modestly proud of my front hatch...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/Vanora/100.jpg?t=1285896383

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

PMJ,

On the plus side of the ledger, I got to see all your boats in one place. I had no idea of the extent of your afflictio...errrrr, addictio....ummmm, I mean... collection <G>

Umm yes, but we don't speak about it. There is no cure :D

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I suspect PMJ is beyond caring one way or the other about your, or any other Bilge resident's, opinion of him. A healthy attitude, IMHO.


Not true... there are many people here that I would listen to... and that I would ask for advice. Bilge, and other places

[pefjr]

[QUOTE=Peter Malcolm Jardine;2731320]
Nice pictures PMJ, I like the little Sailboat. The others are nice too but not my COT. But can we agree this gives you no authority to call anyone a POS or parasite or to investigate my or another member's particulars or make judgements based on the number of wooden boats one has owned or whether or not they post up top or down below. And certainly it gives you no right to make judgements as to another members right to join this forum or what they can say or find humor in based on the number of posts one has. Within the forums rules of course, (and may I point out you broke them today and have broken them constantly with your rude manner). In fact, it has only has to do with bragging rights and how important one might think these bragging rights are. My ego needs no bragging rights unless forced to do so with an ample amount of money on the table, or that little Sailboat. You can exercise yours all you want.

Tell us about the little sailboat.

[B_B]

I have no problem in the ability to detect your insecurity and weakness. Otherwise why the name calling and .......?I called you names? Or are you confusing things again? Why don't you go back and look at my three previous posts on this thread and quote where I called you names. Junior you get another failing grade.

[bobbys]

Port?.

I just left port.

I just LEFT port.

Red right returning.

Red RIGHT returning.

[McMike]

Look at Puffy Jr's post list... not too much about boats. I don't think he even has a boat anymore.

So . . . I guess because I don't have a boat to post about I'm not welcome? I'd love to have a boat build to ask questions about, right now and for a few years I won't. I came here because I'm into wooden boats and I love reading about the repairs and the new designs (I'm still waiting for the perfect 20fter).

My point . . . there may be some here who only want to stir the bilge water but I don't think P Jr is one of them and although I can see that it may seem otherwise, neither am I.

[TomF]

Gentlemen all.

Just for clarity, I launched this little thread in response to what appeared to me to be an influx over the last perhaps 2 weeks or so of posters whose only objective or interest seemed to be advocating for very R views in political discussions ... in remarkably sharp language.

We have seen this before. Twice in my memory on the forum ... both coincided with the final run-up to American elections. I wasn't as active in this part of the WBF prior to 2004, so maybe the pattern's longer, but I can't say.

By no means am I trying to point fingers at Bilgerats who've been hanging here for months or longer. Like the rest of us, you lot are part of the regular sort of rabble that gets sucked into the WBF's swirling vortex, and can't leave. :D (cue the Eagles ...)

[Milo Christensen]

Sorry, Tom, but I've lost some of the high regard I held you in as a result of this thread. Would you care to comment on the increasing shrillness coming from the members whose only objective or interest seemed to be advocating for very D views in political discussions? To me, a member is a member, but I guess if they're not part of the liberal clique I and others have commented on numerous times, they just aren't, what, worthy enough to belong or ignore, or just not liberal enough?

[Garret]

Sorry, Tom, but I've lost some of the high regard I held you in as a result of this thread. Would you care to comment on the increasing shrillness coming from the members whose only objective or interest seemed to be advocating for very D views in political discussions? To me, a member is a member, but I guess if they're not part of the liberal clique I and others have commented on numerous times, they just aren't, what, worthy enough to belong or ignore, or just not liberal enough?

I saw his point to be about people who seem to simply be here (& very recently at that) to post to political threads. He has said he is not talking about the longer term folk - just the few like Zodiac. I too find their sudden appearance right before the elections rather suspicious.

[TomF]

Milo, I don't delete threads, or lock them ... except on the very rare occasions (I think twice - both religious threads) when I explicitly say in my thread opener that the thread is to be civil ... and that I'll patrol it.

This thread was about what appeared to be newbie parachuted-in posters. I don't like'em, and wouldn't like'em any better whichever party they seemed to shill for. I don't like it when long-time D voices here get nasty, and I don't like it when long-time R voices get nasty either. But they've been here long enough, all of them, that they're an "organic" part of this place. I do hate the incivility, but I'm not gonna patrol or (for the first time ever) punch a report button.

If we see newbie parachute D-vitriol posters arriving over the next few weeks throwing verbal bombs at R candidates ... with the possible intention of trying to get long-time R-supporters here so lathered that they self-immolate ... I'll give them exactly the same kind of gentle welcome I gave in my opening post.

[Milo Christensen]

To bad the Great Litany is so long already, we could add a new line:

From the newbie parachuted-in posters, Good Lord save us.

[Milo Christensen]

Not sure how we would fit the new line in to something so perfect already, but, help me out here, where should we put it?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPBdIYU-AX8

[TomF]

I think it could get worked into this petition somehow:

From all blindness of heart;
from pride, vainglory, and hypocrisy;
from envy, hatred, and malice;
and from all uncharitableness,
Good Lord, deliver us

[Milo Christensen]

Thank you, although in my pride I think you're making my point. I will reflect on those four lines for awhile, care to join me? You know, I have been reflecting a great deal on inclusion lately. What limits should we place on inclusiveness in the great debate about where American goes next?

[John of Phoenix]

Milo, I get the feeling you're defending the recently deflated inflatable. What did he contribute that was worthy of defending?




Steve Zodiac
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/statusicon/user-offline.png Banned
Join Date: Sep 2010


http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=2731252#post2731252)
Hmmm...

Only 23 posts and you already come across as a liar.


And you come across as an ignorant lib.

[oznabrag]

Milo, I get the feeling you're defending the recently deflated inflatable. What did he contribute that was worthy of defending?








I wonder what's happened to the rest of the 5-post wingnuts?

The noise level has dropped considerably.

[Milo Christensen]

Milo, I get the feeling you're defending the recently deflated inflatable. What did he contribute that was worthy of defending? . . .

I don't know. You guys pulled your panties up your cracks and squealed in a such hurry that now we'll never know. The alleged dimeaposter might have developed some redeeming value, if only to deflect the pinata whackers. I'll tell you, I'll never object to having that first, expendable assault wave in front of me.

Given how fast the alleged dimeaposter disappeared, I suspect he wasn't parachuted out of a black helicopter, but was one of those us TomF thinks is so important, just one of those us who's banned.

[David G]

Milo (if that's your REAL name),

Lessee, now... how long have you been here????

If I drop the subject, and defend you... make believe that I remember hearing your voice around here for years... can I get a cut of your earnings? <G>

[Bruce Hooke]

So . . . I guess because I don't have a boat to post about I'm not welcome? I'd love to have a boat build to ask questions about, right now and for a few years I won't. I came here because I'm into wooden boats and I love reading about the repairs and the new designs (I'm still waiting for the perfect 20fter).

My point . . . there may be some here who only want to stir the bilge water but I don't think P Jr is one of them and although I can see that it may seem otherwise, neither am I.

As I believe I already said on this thread, it seems to me that we all have some area of expertise that may or may not be boat related but that can be brought into play at least occasionally when people are genuinely looking for help. Remember that some of the non-political questions asked here in the bilge have nothing to do with boats. One way to add to one's credibility is to be helpful when others are asking for help.

[B_B]

You guys pulled your panties up your cracks and squealed in a such hurry that now we'll never know...
If that's all it took to get someone banned Donn would've done all us lefties, and indifferent spellers, in by now.

[Donn]

If that's all it took to get someone banned Donn would've done all us lefties, and indifferent spellers, in by now.

Nah. Scot's a lefty, too.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

That's it, a big WB conspiracy of the left.

[Milo Christensen]

Milo (if that's your REAL name),

Lessee, now... how long have you been here????

If I drop the subject, and defend you... make believe that I remember hearing your voice around here for years... can I get a cut of your earnings? <G>

I've been here under another name (MJC), not been here, been here under another name (cedar savage), confessed and appealed to Scott for clemency, received clemency and been here under my name, not been here, been here, not been here, been here, not been here, and, voila! here I am.

Take a cut of my earnings? Why, no, unless you also want to supplement the losses? Do you have any idea how much this place has cost me? You're an economist, you have probably heard of opportunity costs, yes?

[Phillip Allen]

what'd you guys do while I was outa state?...run someone off?

[skipper68]

No one of any importance.They didn't run anyone out. It was a self imposed exile,IMHO.Even tried to sneak back in thru a bilge leak..

[huisjen]

Okay, time for the witch hunt: Who sicked these malformed puppies on us? I doubt they had the navigational skills to show up here on their own. Has one of our number enlisted them?

Very sad.

Dan

[Tom Montgomery]

I love newbies who make comments such as characterizing a group of guys standing behind a bus with their pants pulled down as "a Barney Frank town hall meeting."

Evidently so do Donn and Milo, judging by their defense of such critters.

[John Smith]

Speculation only, of courrse. But the breed seems familiar.
Such types to turn up on forums, but I'm not sure how effective they are.

On one forum I frequent there were a couple of "plants" for lack of a better word, and they posted much as one would expect Sharon Angle or Christine O'Donnell to.

Others would make the right's argument with more sincerety, but it's pretty difficult to tell us the republicans are good at handling money given their actual track record.

We see, in the division of this nation, the entrenchedness of people's opinions, and how facts cannot penetrate them. Not just in politics. I had a friend over who saw my Pegasus, and could not convince him that it didn't come from a Flying A station. If you ask 100 people who gave Elvis his first national television spot, probably 85 of them would say Ed Sullivan. They'd be wrong, but you'd not be able to convince them of that.

I call it she sportsification of America when one holds such great loyalty to a political party that the party doing well is more important than the nation doing well. And much of the "fiscal" argument is only put in the headlines to cover up the social issues and their views on those.

We have a public who is intentionally misinformed by much of the News Media and ads from conservative groups on issues, such as, for example, the health care bill. This misinformed public is then polled, and the results of those polls influence campains, and future votes. Even though these polls reflect a public that believes Ed Sullivan gave Elvis his first tv spot. Just because more people believe something doesn't make it true.

If it did, Islam would be the one, true religion.

[Garret]

I had a friend over who saw my Pegasus, and could not convince him that it didn't come from a Flying A station.


Anyone knows it was Texaco... :d

OK, OK... Mobil.

I guess wings confuse some people.

http://www.cartype.com/pics/410/full/flying_a_gas.jpg

[Milo Christensen]

. . . Evidently so do [redacted] and Milo, judging by their defense of such critters.

Wasn't a defense of a single such critter per se as it is an attempt at opening closed minds, thereby enabling communication in a more diverse society by being a more inclusive society.

[Tom Montgomery]

Does anyone know what remark resulted in Zodiac's banishment? I can't believe it was the one I quoted.

[Garret]

Wasn't a defense of a single such critter per se as it is an attempt at opening closed minds, thereby enabling communication in a more diverse society by being a more inclusive society.

I must admit I don't get banning anyone - unless it's for truly offensive language, etc. The Barney Frank post was certainly off-color - but I agree it didn't rate banning.

Will Scot ban someone simply because some people ask for it? If so - IMHO that's wrong. It's really wrong if the only objection was to someones political viewpoint!

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

If I were Scot I would assess the reason why people were here.... free speech is important, but if the only reason someone joins is to post nasty politically oriented posts, and laugh at jokes about gays and violence against women, then maybe that person should find another place to play.

The other thing that happens when a new "Dutch" appears in the bilge is that reasonable members get offended enough to leave or get wound up themselves. Not a useful exercise, and easily solved.;)

[Milo Christensen]

In the interests of balance and fair play, I've fixed that for you:


If I were Scot I would assess the reason why people were here.... free speech is important, but if the only reason someone joins is to post nasty politically oriented posts, and laugh at jokes about Republicans and conservatives and libertarians and Christians and Catholics and the Tea Party, then maybe that person should find another place to play.

The other thing that happens when a new "liberal dimeaposter" appears in the bilge is that reasonable members get offended enough to leave or get wound up themselves. Not a useful exercise, and easily solved.;)

[skuthorp]

During our election preamble the number of hits on the Oz Politcs thread rose dramatically, but it did not attract a group of new posters of either persuasion.

[ccmanuals]

PMJ a Chris Craft man!
I know there is a place in heaven for you.
Enjoyed the pics of your fleet.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

PMJ a Chris Craft man!
I know there is a place in heaven for you.
Enjoyed the pics of your fleet.

I have your disc buddy.... a very useful addition to my library.

[TomF]

Milo,

As soon as you see a Dem dime-a-poster show up here, let us know. Somebody with posting habits analagous to the dear departed Mr. Zodiac, for instance, but for the other team.

We'll make him every bit as welcome.

[pefjr]

Milo,

As soon as you see a Dem dime-a-poster show up here, let us know. Somebody with posting habits analagous to the dear departed Mr. Zodiac, for instance, but for the other team.

We'll make him every bit as welcome.posting habits? I thought he had less than 20 posts. Tell us TomF, how did you determine those posting habits? You want to see a Dem dime a poster, whatever that is, I 'd call it a promoting hate post, go to post #5 in this thread,
Many Dems do not know who their Veep is (http://forum.woodenboat.showthread.php?120694-Many-Dems-do-not-know-who-their-Veep-is)

Betty-B says it was just humor. I guess Zodiac could say the same but he/she can't be with us to say anything.

[TomF]

posting habits? I thought he had less than 20 posts. Tell us TomF, how did you determine those posting habits? You want to see a Dem dime a poster, whatever that is, I 'd call it a promoting hate post, go to post #5 in this thread,
Many Dems do not know who their Veep is (http://forum.woodenboat.showthread.php?120694-Many-Dems-do-not-know-who-their-Veep-is)

Betty-B says it was just humor. I guess Zodiac could say the same but he/she can't be with us to say anything.You can only base impressions on what you've seen, Pefjr. Perhaps Mr. Zodiac would have demonstrated his broad love for humanity given the opportunity to fill out his posting record to the low 1000s, but we'll never know.

To my eye, he arrived shortly before an election, uniformly posted posts in political threads, and all but uniformly used vicious language in making those posts. That raised my eyebrows, and prompted me to think that he might not be worth engaging with 'till after the election... when I could know whether he was a keyboard-for-hire warrior, or just another opinionated forumite.

Thanks to his behaviour, I now don't have that chance.

As to Betty-B's post - as I said to Milo, I'm not wild about namecalling and snarky posts whenever they arrive - but Betty-B's been here for some time now, which argues that he's not simply a partisan paid poster. Show me a <20 post newbie who's only posting Rep-attacks, and I'll happily join you in calling them out.

[pefjr]

You can only base impressions on what you've seen, Pefjr. Perhaps Mr. Zodiac would have demonstrated his broad love for humanity given the opportunity to fill out his posting record to the low 1000s, but we'll never know.

To my eye, he arrived shortly before an election, uniformly posted posts in political threads, and all but uniformly used vicious language in making those posts. That raised my eyebrows, and prompted me to think that he might not be worth engaging with 'till after the election... when I could know whether he was a keyboard-for-hire warrior, or just another opinionated forumite.

Thanks to his behaviour, I now don't have that chance.

As to Betty-B's post - as I said to Milo, I'm not wild about namecalling and snarky posts whenever they arrive - but Betty-B's been here for some time now, which argues that he's not simply a partisan paid poster. Show me a <20 post newbie who's only posting Rep-attacks, and I'll happily join you in calling them out. Big Surprise! BTW, bobbys had a post count of over 3000 and a history of the best humorist on WBF(IMO)yet the lefties beat a path to the hardware store for rope to hang him, some probably still have him on ignore. But don't let me stand in the way of double standards and the humor of Betty-B, I will give BB the benefit of the doubt but the squirming is noted.

[TomF]

Nobody claimed that bobbys was a paid shill, at least that I saw. Hell, SamF allegedly has Tom Montgomery on ignore too, but that doesn't mean that either of them gaid paid to post.

How I choose to respond to what seem to me to be possibly paid shills was, and is, the point of my thread. I get suspicious when someone starts their account this late in an election cycle, and almost only posts very partisan stuff. Show me a Dem who's joined in the past 2-3 weeks and done utterly nothing but throw muck at Reps, and I'll ignore them 'till after election day too.

If you can't show me such a Dem, then ask yourself what it says about them that they aren't indulging in such drive-by tactics.

[Tom Montgomery]

Nobody claimed that bobbys was a paid shill, at least that I saw. Hell, SamF allegedly has Tom Montgomery on ignore too, but that doesn't mean that either of them gaid paid to post.

How I choose to respond to what seem to me to be possibly paid shills was, and is, the point of my thread. I get suspicious when someone starts their account this late in an election cycle, and almost only posts very partisan stuff.

You mean to say that "paid-to-post-political-shills" are something other than an urban legend?

I always figgered these wing-nut one trick ponies were simply adolescent wankers out to create a bit of havoc.

Maybe not, eh?

[TomF]

Maybe, but maybe not. It does smell a lot like simple vandalism.

But I wonder if, as I said the other day, the more astonishingly out-in-right-field ones are perhaps playing a part intended to expand the "legitimate" size of political discourse to the Right, by shifting only one of Noam Chomsky's sets of goalposts. If so, then teenaged vandals would be ideal people to hire.

[Kaa]

If so, then teenaged vandals would be ideal people to hire.

That starts to sound worryingly paranoid.

If I wanted to spam 'net forums with political propaganda, the first thing that would come to my mind would be a set of Perl (or Python, etc.) scripts which would boost my "productivity" enormously :-) That ain't what we're looking at here.

The second thing that would come to mind would be hire the equivalent of the so-called Chinese Gold Farmers -- though probably out of India because of the language. These will be more expensive than the scripts, but actually able to hold up a conversation in limited ways. That ain't what we're looking here as well.

Given this, and given that the 'net is wonderful equalizer giving equal opportunity to speak to everyone regardless of his umm... cognitive ability, I am pretty sure all this "paid shill" hysteria is nothing but a bit of paranoia mixed with disbelief that actual people could really hold such views.

Kaa

[TomF]

That starts to sound worryingly paranoid.

If I wanted to spam 'net forums with political propaganda, the first thing that would come to my mind would be a set of Perl (or Python, etc.) scripts which would boost my "productivity" enormously :-) That ain't what we're looking at here.

The second thing that would come to mind would be hire the equivalent of the so-called Chinese Gold Farmers -- though probably out of India because of the language. These will be more expensive than the scripts, but actually able to hold up a conversation in limited ways. That ain't what we're looking here as well.

Given this, and given that the 'net is wonderful equalizer giving equal opportunity to speak to everyone regardless of his umm... cognitive ability, I am pretty sure all this "paid shill" hysteria is nothing but a bit of paranoia mixed with disbelief that actual people could really hold such views.

KaaI wonder. While googling around to see if there's any basis to the urban legends of paid-to-post folks, I ran across this story (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/QPeriod/20100523/government-online-forums-100523/). In which Stephen Harper's Canadian government, of all organizations, took out a $75k contract with a social networking consultant firm to "correct misinformation" in forums etc. regarding the seal hunt.

Don't know how I missed that story - it's astonishingly execrable behaviour.

If social marketing "management" is occuring regarding the seal hunt, for Christ's sake, do you really think it's not happening in national electoral campaigns?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

http://www.batesline.com/archives/PowerfulBrain2x2.gif

[Kaa]

If social marketing "management" is occuring regarding the seal hunt, for Christ's sake, do you really think it's not happening in national electoral campaigns?

The usual term is "astroturfing" :-)

I am sure it's happening in national electoral campaigns. But not in the Bilge and not in the ways that we're talking about here :-)

Kaa

[John of Phoenix]

If what we've seen is typical, they're not getting their money's worth no matter how little they're paying. What a dud.

[TomF]

If what we've seen is typical, they're not getting their money's worth no matter how little they're paying. What a dud.Paid on a piecework basis, with little oversight or quality control.

Isn't there some wonderful irony in R-wing paid-to-post wankers inadvertently making the case for regulation?

[bobbys]

If a person was diabolical they would post as a crazy person.

As if i was a very left lib i would come to a site as a conservative and scream to see birth certificates thus feeding ammo.

Or if a very crazy right winger pose as a lib and scream Bush is whatever..

Then your "side" could quote you as indicative as ALL ..

So the wackier one is makes me look for flags

I think some that came were here before and have been booted but still i wonder how they are banned right away for things that others say just as bad every day.

[John of Phoenix]

Thanks. Excellent example.

<shudder>

[Bobby of Tulsa]

If a person was diabolical they would post as a crazy person.

As if i was a very left lib i would come to a site as a conservative and scream to see birth certificates thus feeding ammo.

Or if a very crazy right winger pose as a lib and scream Bush is whatever..

Then your "side" could quote you as indicative as ALL ..

So the wackier one is makes me look for flags

I think some that came were here before and have been booted but still i wonder how they are banned right away for things that others say just as bad every day.

:d:d