The old 'Which Boat" question

[daddles]

I'm currently trying to decide what our next boat will be.

Specs are:
- very shallow draft, under 1' (critical, centreboard up of course
- able to carry five people, preferably six
- sleep two in the cabin, comfortably, not on the floor
- able to sit in the cabin
- space for a burner and porta-potti

There's lots out there that fit that list. Now to narrow it down.

- plywood lapstrake construction, definitely NOT interested in stitch and glue
- outboard mounted in a well or similar. I'm not really interested in it sitting on a bracket out the back though I can compromise there. The motor must be able to tilt up.
- would prefer a yawl rig
- a comfy cabin is important - my wife wants to spend weekends on this boat and she's not a camper (exit the Chebacco unfortunately)

The Lapstrake requirement is the one I can't seem to fill (lots of stitch and glue and multi-chine), which raises the question, how practical is it to take a multi-chine hull and build it lapstrake using the existing frames as a basis for your round hull. Lofting doesn't scare me.

This also raises the question, why aren't there more lapstrake designs out there - not everyone is averse to planking.

Cheers
Richard

[Aramas]

Your draft is the biggest restraint, and you're probably going to have to look at sharpies and barge yachts if your wife 'doesn't like camping'. Those hullforms are not particularly amenable to lapstrake, but there are always ways and means...

Steve Redmond's Elver (http://www.sredmond.com/index_boat.htm) springs to mind - hard to beat for a 12" draft, and the sides could easily be clinker built. The accomodation is quite clever too a canvas settee converts to a double.

http://www.sredmond.com/boat_images/ElvSailpl_sm.jpg

[chrisk]

The Drascombe Peter Boat in Thirty wooden boats comes close, except for the cabin headroom. It does have a well for an outbard. The write up in Thirty wooden boats mentions that there are alternative cabin arrangements in the plans, but doesn't say if that would include a taller cabin, it's says it's 2'6". But, it can be rigged with a Yawl, has 10" draft with board up, and is glued lapstrake plywood over plywood frames and bulkheads.

I also believe there are other types of these Drascombe boats around on the web that may have taller cabin arrangements. You may want to google and see.

Chris Kottaridis (chrisk@quietwind.net)

[chrisk]

The Drascombe Coaster (http://www.drascombe.co.uk/coaster.html) seems to fit all of your specs (http://www.drascombe.co.uk/coasterspec.html)

Don't know if it's the "look" you want though.

Chris Kottaridis (chrisk@quietwind.net)

[daddles]

You're right Chris. It looks mighty interesting. Any idea how one goes about getting plans for one? I'm not having a lot of luck googling them.

Cheers
Richard

[Meerkat]

Peterboat plans where withdrawn years ago, alas.

You didn't mention how large a boat you wanted - if you can tolorate 1'6" draft, the Cape Cutter 19 (http://www.dixdesign.com/inspir19.htm) might exactly fit your bill. It's a glued lapstrake centerboard cutter that sleeps 2-4 people and has a generous sized cockpit, plus an outboard well. It also offers an arrangement that gives reasonable privacy while using the pot.
http://www.dixdesign.com/inspiration4.jpg
http://www.dixdesign.com/nv19rigs.gif

If you really want to carry 5-6 adults and don't mind paying for/maintaining all that extra space for the times when you have that many aboard, the larger Cape Henry 21 (http://www.dixdesign.com/ch21.htm) might suit. Unfortunately, her draft is 1'7".

Having looked long and hard myself, it's @#%!! hard to find sitting headroom in traditional looking boats much under about 20' - unless you adapt a design or pay a lot to have one designed for you.

[ 01-07-2004, 03:18 AM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[daddles]

Sorry Meer, the 1 foot draft is pretty important because of the two areas I'll be using her and because I can get boats that fit the bill, with 10" drafts but not lapstrake, I need to stick to it.

Size? Under 20' but that's determined by the other factors as a matter of course. For example, I was quite excited by the Chebacco until I discovered how much cabin space they don't have.

Having said all that, the Cape Cutter and Cape Henry are two boats a mate and I keep looking longingly at. Very nice they are.

Cheers
Richard

[chrisk]

Well, a google search for Drascombe shows lots of associations out there. But, I didn't see anybody touting any plans. I did see that Churchouse Boats (http://users.powernet.co.uk/churchouse/index.htm) will build you one. So, maybe you can check with them for availability of plans if you want to build one yourself. There also seems to be a web page out there of a home built one by Andrei Fedorov (http://www.cesr.fr/~fedorov/DRASCOMBE/HEADER/) who apparently got his plans from a russian yachting magazine?

[chrisk]

By the way, I like the Cape Henry myself. But, my wife is a bit "iffy" as to wether a curtain for the head is enough privacy for her. The only boat I've been able to find with an enclosed head in the 20' range is George Whistock's 20 footer (http://www.whisstock.com/frameset_123.html) I haven't been able to see any pictures of it though to know a whole lot more then is on their web page. It's a yawl rig with two head sails, lots of "strings" to pull! The drawings look nice, and I like the idea of an inboard engine which I wouldn't have expected on a 20' boat.

But, a boat with a cabin is still a ways off for me I am afraid, I need to keep my eyes open now for when that day comes though.

Chris Kottaridis (chrisk@quietwind.net)

[N. Scheuer]

DOVEKIE will sail everywhere you want, and do everything you wkant. Of course it is Airex foam cored fiberglass, however, BIRDWATCHER, another very similar Bolger design , is plywood, and not "stitch & glue, either.

A friend has a Michalak designed, professionally built sharpie called NORM'S BOAT (because it was designed and built for Norm) which is Lug Rigged instead of Leg-O-Mutton Sprit Rigged, and it would fit your bill, too.

Agree with someone else above who said Sharpies arethe way to go for draft under 1-ft, yet having cruising capacity.

Moby Nick

[Aramas]

That drascombe thing looks nice, but what's the big packing crate in the bow for? smile.gif

And those Whisstock plans are really expensive - the 23 footer is $799 for downloadable plans - you have to pay for printing on top of that. For that money I'd want full size mylar patterns, not just a pdf file.

[ 01-07-2004, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

[Mike H]

The current object of my boat lust. www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/index.htm (http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/index.htm)

[Venchka]

I knew Penguin would surface sooner or later. I was all set to shout "PENGUIN" about an hour ago. That's when I went GOOGLING around cyber space to confirm the boat's board up draft. Guess what? It ain't out there. So, you'll have to ask John himself for that critical dimension or hope someone who knows chimes in here. It does satisfy your head, planking style, outboard motor and sail plan requirements.

http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/BoatPenguin/tropicalpenguinfolder/penguinau10.jpg


PENGUIN (http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/BoatPenguin/tropicalpenguinfolder/PenguinAust.html)

What you may have to do is decide which of your parameters are cast in stone and those which you might have to loosen up on. My guess is that you may have to be more flexible on the type of planking and sail rig.

[Keith Wilson]

The lapstrake Chebacco is a really nice boat, and could tolerate a higher Penguin-type cabin. Another strake on the hull wouldn't hurt, either. I think you could get reasonable accomodations (reasonable for a shallow 19' catboat hull, anyway) without making the boat ugly. As it is, the cabin is only useful for storing gear and small tired children. I'm not sure I'd want Bolger to do the mods, though; the glass house version is hideous!

[ 01-07-2004, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Steve Paskey]

I can't find a listing for Penguin's draft either, so I carefully measured beam and draft on a drawing in John's book, and scaled up both proportionally. Looks like about 16 inches, give or take an inch. Given the hull shape, I doubt that she'd be as low as 12.

[daddles]

I may have found the answer to my search. Selway Fisher's Highlander 19 smile.gif

Highlanders (http://www.selway-fisher.com/Highlanders.htm)

I've already spoken to Paul Fisher who told me that it has also been done in lapstrake. :D :D It's got a decent outboard arrangement, not just tagged on the back. ;) Choice of rigs - I'll be going for the yawl but what type of yawl is yet to be considered. The cabin can be modified and he's offered help there. Standard is two berths with cooker and portapoti. The water ballast can be replaced with fixed if I desire. 10" draft. She's long but not excessively - I won't be strething it though. It seems to answer all my requirements. smile.gif

The other short runner was Welsford's Sweet Pea but that's a hard chine boat with no option at this time for lapstrake. They are similar boats otherwise - SP being shorter but also wider and having that bowsprit.

Study plans for the Highlander have been ordered but please keep the suggestions coming. I'd like to conisider ALL the options before buying the full set of plans for a change. :rolleyes:

Does anyone know anything about Selway Fishers boats/plans and the Highlander 19 in particular?

Cheers
Richard

[chrisk]

The Highlander looks a lot like the Drascombe Coaster doesn't it?

I have ordered plans from Selway-Fisher for the JC-10 and Waterman 16, sailing canoes. I hope to be starting the builds on those this spring, I am hoping they'll be quick and easy. The plans look adequately detailed to me, I'll know more when I actually start building. But, more importantly if you get on the selway fisher yahoogroup you can get some good help. Paul Fisher Keeps a close eye on it and seems to be ever available for help.

Chris Kottaridis (chrisk@quietwind.net)

[Meerkat]

It would surprise me beyond words if Sweet Pea was hard chined. John's standard build method for his home build stock plans is stringer-lap. There are certainly no other stitch and glue boats in his current offerings.

Chrisk; The Golant Gaffer, at 18'9"/17'6" x 7' x 2'9" has a private head compartment behind a wooden door. Pretty as a picture too! smile.gif (the boat, not the head ;) ). Plans are ~$400 and include full sized patterns for the bulkheads and longitudinal members. http://www.classicmarine.co.uk is the designer's sales agent now.

[Banjo]

Originally posted by Meerkat:
It would surprise me beyond words if Sweet Pea was hard chined. John's standard build method for his home build stock plans is stringer-lap. There are certainly no other stitch and glue boats in his current offerings.
Hello Meer and all, my ears have picked up smile.gif
Sweet Pea was S&G in the very early days, John changed the construction to stringers on frames to make it easier for most home builders.

And yes she is hard chined, just like the Hartleys and the Chebacco's out there. See pic.
http://users.bigpond.net.au/banjos-backyard/images/sweetpeadwg.gif
For me I wanted performance so the flattish bottom and clean run aft was more important than slack chines and a curvey bum in lap strake. Not that I have anything against lap strake, I think they look real perty on the right boat.

Cheers Banjo.

[chrisk]

I didn't know it had an enclosed head, thanks for pointing it out. I am a sucker for a gaff cutter rig too! But, most importantly it's only 7' beam! The double doors on my two car garage are each only 7' 10" wide. So, I have promised myself to stay less then 7'6" wide, preferrably 7'0" to make sure I really have room to work.

If it were a double ender it'd pretty much cover all of my wish list. When I get around to building a weekender boat it'll be on the list. That's a ways out though.

Chris Kottaridis (chrisk@quietwind.net)

[Meerkat]

Banjo; I would say something, but since I am supposed to be speechless in surprise... ;)

It sure would be nice if the Golant Gaffer where stringer-lap (sigh).

[daddles]

Don't be too put out Meer, I was under the same impression. Mind you, if I hadn't found the Highlander, I would probably have opted for the Sweet Pea. Banjo, the Highlander also has a flat bum. It apprears to be very similar to the Sweet Pea. Good thing it's longer and narrower so we have a difference to argue about. When we get our respective boats finished, we'll have to set sail and meet in the middle. Scotland sounds nice ... oh, did you think I meant going the OTHER way.

Cheers
Richard

[Banjo]

It's me again! smile.gif

The Highlander looks good, but is it lap strake? Hard to tell with their flakey little sketches. And that rudder head looks huge! smile.gif

While in Fishers site I spotted this one, you probably did too. This one is designed for lap strake const. I imagine the cabin on it would sure be nice and cosey smile.gif

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Gdanskd1.gif http://www.selway-fisher.com/Gdanskp1.jpg

Again the design may be adapted and fitted out much as you require and the cuddy may be lengthened or shortened or finished as an enclosed cabin. With the cuddy. the mast is stepped in a tabernacle. LOD 17’3’’; Beam 5’8’’; Draft 10’’/3’3’’; Sail Area 100 sq.ft.; Approx. wht. 600 lbs ex. ballast Banjo

[daddles]

The standard Highlander isn't lapstrake but they have the plans for a lapstrake version. It has a flat bottom like your Sweet Pea. They are very similar boats.

Richard

[Banjo]

Originally posted by daddles:
Good thing it's longer and narrower so we have a difference to argue about. When we get our respective boats finished, we'll have to set sail and meet in the middle. Scotland sounds nice ... oh, did you think I meant going the OTHER way.
G'day Richard,
Sounds great mate, get cracking on the boat! Chop Chop!! smile.gif
Scotland? Crikey! I think a cruise around Port Philip Bay is a big undertaking! ;)
Banjo.

[Hwyl]

I like the blue storm designs http://www.bluelightning.co.uk/ts/index.htm . I think (and I'm surprised that no one has said it) that to fill your parameters; you need a bigger boat.

[Stiletto]

I think that Blue Storm looks like a fast boat. Not at all traditional.

[helmuth]

Hi daddles,
have a look at thales 22 at www.yachtbau.cz, (http://www.yachtbau.cz,) perhaps you can get the plans. I've seen the finished boat in Berlin/Germany, it's lovely and suits all your specifications. Try to get in contact with Mr. Sarfert from Sarfert yachtbau, i think he can help you getting the plans.
best regards
Helmuth

[daddles]

Thanks for the link Helmut. She's a lovely little boat ... er ... largish boat. Pity there are no photos in the cabin. They claim two berths plus a kid in there but it looks very low. Also quite a bit bigger than the Highlander ... which perhaps is how they squeeze three people into the cabin.
The biggest hassle is the draft - at 2', it's far too deep for my bay.

Good looking boat though. I wonder how many interesting designs we english speakers miss by not looking at the european offerings.

Cheers
Richard

[imported_Steven Bauer]

How critical is that 12" draft requirement. Eun Mara is 16" with the boards up. She meets all the other requirements.

Steven

[daddles]

Twelve inches is probably too much Steven. I'm sailing from a very shallow bay and she'll be launced and retrieved from the beach. Sure, there's a boat ramp about 5km away. but that'd mean leaving the car and trailer that far away from the house. If the boat is left moored in the bay, it means messing with a tender though in reality, that'll probably be happening anyway. Considering I can find designs with less than a foot draft, I'm making that a point of non-compromise.

Cheers
Richard

[Venchka]

Richard,

Have you bought plans yet? John Welsford has finally got round to adding a cabin & two berth arrangement to PATHFINDER. Give John an email shout and pick his brain about this new development.

If you have the HIGHLANDER plans, no worries.