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Milo Christensen
09-22-2010, 10:28 AM
:mad: The Michigan Civil Service Commission's annual Retiree Benefits Bulletin.

And I quote:


Important Insurance Information for Defined Benefit Retirees.

Premium rates for the State Health Plan PPO, administered by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, will increase by 15% for the 2010-2011 fiscal year.

Scott Rosen
09-22-2010, 10:43 AM
The point I get from Milo's post is that health care reform is not addressing the rising cost issue. Moreover, the rising costs or the reform are being spread out in a way that makes it more difficult for middle class folks to afford health insurance. It is especially bad for retirees and people on fixed incomes. It doesn't help that the Fed policy of keeping rates low makes it impossible to find a safe investment that pays even a modest return.

I don't know if the health care bill is good or bad, on balance. I do know that it's woefully incomplete.

paul oman
09-22-2010, 10:54 AM
just send the bill to Obama...

katey
09-22-2010, 11:09 AM
Mine has doubled in four years. This is for a high-deductible plan on which they have paid out exactly $123 in all that time.

Peerie Maa
09-22-2010, 11:09 AM
15% is one hell of a hike, what is inflation running at, and did the rates increase last year as well? If so, a hike that is difficult to justify.

elf
09-22-2010, 11:12 AM
Take it up with your Senators and Representatives.

switters
09-22-2010, 12:00 PM
Is there some sort of conclusion in your OP somewhere?

Insurance rates rising? Yawn... they've been doing that for years.

12-20% the last 6 years in a row here. I was happy to see that health care reform was being addressed, not happy at what got passed. I would have to agree with Elf on this one, it wasn't the white house that wrote the bill that got passed.

ccmanuals
09-22-2010, 12:31 PM
Then please explain here why none of you guys weren't screaming for a single payer option? All we heard from people on this forum was reform is bad, out with "obamacare". If your rates go up you have no one to blame but yourselves.

TomF
09-22-2010, 12:39 PM
IIRC, Milo was an advocate for single payer. Not an advocate for the bill which was passed though.

A 15% hike is unsurprising to me - we see that the overall costs of providing health care in our province are rising at about 9%/year overall, with some astonishing leaps far beyond that for certain procedures, drugs, and technology. A 15% hike in a program by a non-profit which isn't backstopped by tax revenue or the capacity to borrow sounds prudent, though grim.

Milo Christensen
09-22-2010, 01:01 PM
Thanks, Tom, I am indeed in favor of a simple, no frills, everybody's covered, everybody pays their share program.

Were we, here in the US to make everybody happy by redistributing all income above the mean (currently $71,500 per household) and use the proceeds to bring evey household below the mean up to the mean, then deduct 15% income tax, 15% Social Security tax, 18% Medical Insurance tax, and $1,500 per household member per annum for 30 years national debt reduction tax, letting the states, regional authorities, counties, and local government, schools, libraries, zoos, parks, bus systems, water and sewerage units tax as necessary to maintain necessary services, then I would be really on board with this, even though I'd lose a good bit of household income in the process.

Milo Christensen
09-22-2010, 01:05 PM
I would and I am.

JBreeze
09-22-2010, 01:07 PM
Milo, thanks for the heads-up...

I might as well plan on 15% or so for my share of retirement BC/BS - currently $176/month (a bargain in my view)!

Yeadon
09-22-2010, 01:09 PM
You're very lucky you didn't get a summons from the Death Panel. Very lucky indeed.

John of Phoenix
09-22-2010, 01:09 PM
That sounds down right socialist for a libertarian.

TomF
09-22-2010, 01:11 PM
That sounds down right socialist for a libertarian.True. I thought the Libertarian view was that bureaucracy's only fine if it turns a profit.

Milo Christensen
09-22-2010, 01:15 PM
John, unlike many here, I am capable of changing long held beliefs. To apply rational thought to the most serious problems facing this country. I am willing to apply the results of the latest social science research showing that happiness does not increase above a household income of $75K. I posted a thread on it. Since then, I've been thinking about the implications, I've been thinking about all the unfunded liabilities, I've been thinking about how unhappy people must be who pay no Federal Income tax, and I've come to the conclusion that to ensure happiness (something about that in some of the founding documents) we must all be equal (something about that too in some of the founding documents).

Scott Rosen
09-22-2010, 01:45 PM
I've come to the conclusion that to ensure happiness (something about that in some of the founding documents) we must all be equal (something about that too in some of the founding documents).Sarcasm, I hope.

The founding documents, if you include the Declaration of Independence, declares that the PURSUIT of happiness is an inalienable right. It doesn't say that happiness itself is a right. It also doesn't dictate that we must all be equal economically. It declares that all men are created equal in the sight of god.

Chris Coose
09-22-2010, 02:07 PM
State Health Plan PPO? You've got cadillac.
Anthem annually comes into Maine with a 22-25% proposal. They (the state government) knocks it down to 19.8% and we all feel great!!!

You are finishing it up as a retiree. You'll be well taken care of.
Imagine what it is like for a kid entering the job market with a trailer truck full of school loans?
Count your blessings.

Tom Montgomery
09-22-2010, 02:12 PM
Thanks, Tom, I am indeed in favor of a simple, no frills, everybody's covered, everybody pays their share program.

Amen brother. But it will never happen so long as the GOP and the Tea Party can strangle legislation in Congress.

Chris Coose
09-22-2010, 02:24 PM
The Tea Party is going to have a ball knocking the sh*t out of healthcare.

Milo Christensen
09-22-2010, 04:14 PM
State Health Plan PPO? You've got cadillac.
Anthem annually comes into Maine with a 22-25% proposal. They (the state government) knocks it down to 19.8% and we all feel great!!!

You are finishing it up as a retiree. You'll be well taken care of.
Imagine what it is like for a kid entering the job market with a trailer truck full of school loans?
Count your blessings.

Thank you Chris, I do. Both my kids have jobs with health care, one courtesy of the Navy, the other with a trailer truck full of school loans now working to be one of the best ER RN's for the best hospital system in Michigan.

But, one of my many objections to the current law is that young people will be forced to pay a disproportionate premium compared to the almost ready for Medicare older Americans. Underwriting actuarial experience indicates the young (I forget the exact age range here) should pay $1 in premium for every $5 the almost Medicare group should pay, but the law has them paying $1 for every $3 the almost Medicare groups' premium will be "capped" at. This isn't good underwriting policy. I suspect there are many, many more examples that will come to light as the various sections are implemented and the exact regulations are written.

Tristan
09-22-2010, 04:22 PM
Hey, never worry, just vote in the Republicans and Tea Party candidates and they'll move us back in the right direction.

Chip-skiff
09-22-2010, 05:10 PM
just send the bill to Obama...

Most of the Health Care Bill has yet to kick in. The insurance thieves are trying to jam through increases and other scams before that happens. And you're blaming the President?

Why does being a moron make you happy?

Chris Coose
09-22-2010, 05:24 PM
I saw a private practice physician in my practice today. She paid cash because she has, what they call, health insurance by way of that high deductable scam.
Imagine that?

Paul Girouard
09-22-2010, 05:29 PM
I saw a private practice physician in my practice today. She paid cash because she has, what they call, health insurance by way of that high deductable scam.
Imagine that?



Or she wants no record of visiting substance abuse healer.

paladin
09-22-2010, 07:07 PM
and in preparation for the arrangements of reducing costs of prescription meds some companies have already raised prices, as much as 100%...

JBreeze
09-22-2010, 08:18 PM
and in preparation for the arrangements of reducing costs of prescription meds some companies have already raised prices, as much as 100%...

Not only meds, but everything else, too! As a comparison, my spinal fusion in 2003 took 10 hrs O.R. time to fuse 9 vertebrae and install hardware w/ an ant/posterior approach. Co-pays were $1,500. Jump to 2010 - 5 vertebrae, 5 hrs O.R. time, again, ant/post approach. Total cost is even more than 2003, and co-pays are $4K. A couple of carbon fiber "baskets" between the vertebrae were list priced at $15,750 EACH.

The big winner when they read my will be the one that gets 28 screws, 6 small rods and two carbon fiber baskets!:D

P.S. this is what a typical carbon fiber basket looks like:

http://www.thebarrow.org/stellent/groups/public/@xinternet_con_bni/documents/webcontent/bqc00597.jpg

I've got the epoxy - anyone got any leftover carbon fiber?

Gerarddm
09-22-2010, 09:34 PM
BTW, did they say if the benefits are improving at all with that 15% hike?

troutman
09-22-2010, 10:26 PM
Hey, Canadians, how much did that lousy, lame a**ed healthcare plan of yours increase?

BrianW
09-22-2010, 10:49 PM
Then please explain here why none of you guys weren't screaming for a single payer option? All we heard from people on this forum was reform is bad, out with "obamacare". If your rates go up you have no one to blame but yourselves.

I've always supported a single payer system. Obama promised health care reform. In fact, Politifact.com (thanks Norman) claim Obama kept most of his heath care promises....

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/health-care/

So the results, as we got'em now, are Obamas responsibility. What I found disappointing was that Obama didn't have a plan ready when he won. He left it to Pelosi and Ried, and they screwed the pooch.

RonW
09-22-2010, 11:08 PM
Well there is an answer to the soaring prices of insurance and medial costs, as well as medicaid, medicare, high taxes, overpopulation and starvation.

It could be a good thing, and would be the responsible social solution, for the good of our fellow man.

Soylent green..

BrianW
09-23-2010, 12:20 AM
Soylent green..

I've been stocking up on garage sale aquariums.

RonW
09-23-2010, 12:40 AM
I think elf would approve..


http://www.bbspot.com/Images/News_Features/2006/07/soylent_green.jpg

TomF
09-23-2010, 08:36 AM
Hey, Canadians, how much did that lousy, lame a**ed healthcare plan of yours increase?The actual extra cost to consumers? Well, we had no tax increases this year, but like every other developed nation ... every government here is in deficit thanks to infrastructure spending and reduced tax revenue due to the recession.

But if you took the time to parse it out, you'd see actual health spending up overall by about 9%.

troutman
09-23-2010, 09:16 AM
Up 9% you say, but then you have death panels, long waiting periods during which you have to watch your kids get sicker and die. I feel so sorry for you.

pcford
09-23-2010, 09:25 AM
Hey, never worry, just vote in the Republicans and Tea Party candidates and they'll move us back in the right direction.

Assuming you want to live in a cave.

Chris Coose
09-23-2010, 10:09 AM
Just saw a new young man today who is uninsured and has night sweats, significant weight loss, uncontrolable nausea, swollen lymphs (systemic) over the past 8 months with no diagnosis yet. Employer and insurance company caught wind of his health crisis a couple months ago and he was fired and insurance (Harvard Pilgrim) terminated on the same day.

None of the scandals I come across have anything to do with the politics of healthcare. As long as the insurance companies run the drill, we are on the path to further failure in our society.

pcford
09-23-2010, 10:19 AM
Just saw a new young man today who is uninsured and has night sweats, significant weight loss, uncontrolable nausea, swollen lymphs (systemic) over the past 8 months with no diagnosis yet. Employer and insurance company caught wind of his health crisis a couple months ago and he was fired and insurance (Harvard Pilgrim) terminated on the same day.



Thoroughly disgusting. Yet this is what the teabaggers evidently want. Less government regulation...say, isn't that what got us into the current mess?

Paul Girouard
09-23-2010, 10:19 AM
Just saw a new young man today who is uninsured and has night sweats, significant weight loss, uncontrolable nausea, swollen lymphs (systemic) over the past 8 months with no diagnosis yet. Employer and insurance company caught wind of his health crisis a couple months ago and he was fired and insurance (Harvard Pilgrim) terminated on the same day.

None of the scandals I come across have anything to do with the politics of healthcare. As long as the insurance companies run the drill, we are on the path to further failure in our society.

What he on for drugs? Is Obama care going to allow him to continue using and be covered?

Chris Coose
09-23-2010, 12:47 PM
The kid is in abstinence for some time now looking to put his life back together by coming here to get his driver's license restored. His medical condition could be, but is not likely associated to his brief drug experience.
Doesn't matter anyway. The kid is surely not receiving the medical attention that is required to properly diagnose and treat his condition.
Kid paid me a reduced fee with a check that he got from his low paying part time cleaning job. He is in appropriate stress about his upcoming biopsy. He has found himself a decent hospital physician (hosptial free care) after being shuffled about since his insurance was terminated.
Once we are all relegated to free care we might turn a corner but the extrapolation of that event suggests America will be long be done-in by corporate greed.
God bless America.

RonW
09-23-2010, 02:00 PM
What a crock of ****...chris goose tells about this poor kid story...and in comes paul who says..the kid is on drugs...and then chris fesses up with ..yea but he is trying to get his life back in order....so the kid was justified in being canned...

And then we have this pc ford that lives in his own world...that really thinks that the teabaggers and less government got us into this mess..

2 more left wing socialist fantasy stories, that have nothing in common with reality.....but it makes good reading for other lefties....

pcford
09-23-2010, 11:06 PM
What a crock of ****...chris goose tells about this poor kid story...and in comes paul who says..the kid is on drugs...and then chris fesses up with ..yea but he is trying to get his life back in order....so the kid was justified in being canned...

And then we have this pc ford that lives in his own world...that really thinks that the teabaggers and less government got us into this mess..

2 more left wing socialist fantasy stories, that have nothing in common with reality.....but it makes good reading for other lefties....

Oh, let's see here...could the financial mess in which we find ourselves have anything to do with bank regulation? Of course not. The gigantic financial institutions have your best interests at heart...if the darned government would just get out of the way.

If only the teabaggers and wingnuts could see themselves as they really are: tools of those that put themselves and others in the horrible mess that the country now finds itself.

RonW
09-23-2010, 11:25 PM
PCford-Oh, let's see here...could the financial mess in which we find ourselves have anything to do with bank regulation? Of course not. The gigantic financial institutions have your best interests at heart...if the darned government would just get out of the way.


Hey Pc, what president signed the repeal of the glass-seagall act, which is the biggest banking deregulation of all time.

pcford
09-23-2010, 11:41 PM
Hey Pc, what president signed the repeal of the glass-seagall act, which is the biggest banking deregulation of all time.

Clinton. You won't catch me defending Clinton on that or many other points...though he was certainly better than the half-wit that followed. But half-wits must appeal to a number of people.

RonW
09-24-2010, 12:03 AM
though he was certainly better than the half-wit that followed.

O.K. so now what ? Do we argue over which half wit was the best ? Or which half wit was the worse ?

Maybe, just maybe this financial mess we find ourselves in, is the result of too many half wit politicians that are busy enrichening themselves instead of doing their job, overseeing the management of america, from both sides of the aisle.

B_B
09-24-2010, 12:54 AM
But if you took the time to parse it out, you'd see actual health spending up overall by about 9%.There is a difference between spending on health care and for-profit insurance premium increases.

TravisB
09-26-2010, 06:07 AM
Hey, never worry, just vote in the Republicans and Tea Party candidates and they'll move us back in the right direction.

Oh yes, they sure will, they'll send us right back to fully corporate controlled healthcare where we were before and we'll get .... 15% annual increases still. But of course those board rooms only have our best interests in mind. Sorry, but Palin and her jokesters are about as far from the type of people I want inventing my policies as I can possibly imagine. Her little movement makes me less inclined to vote Republican than ever before.

Sorry, the market is where the problem is, not the policy. The hospitals and the doctors and the insurance companies and pharmaceuticals still call the shots and will continue to fleece the people so long as they have the ability to do so. It doesn't matter who you vote in, it's not going to make a difference because the policies they advocate don't address the market itself and the source of the rising costs of healthcare, they just address how it is accessible and to who. People continue to just vote these special interests in (that's all political parties are) and then vote them out thinking all their problems will be solved when the entities that are responsible remain untouched and out of the public eye while they just point at politicians.

Vote in one or the other, it doesn't matter, nothing will change as a result of either of them just as nothing has changed in these matters as a result of politics in over 50 years. We're a free market society, so the power goes to the corporations, like it or not. You have to take your fight and grievances to those responsible or you're just wasting your time with your yard signs. Even when politics is involved the parties have their own interests in mind no matter what their ads and radio hosts say, and it's sick how people allow themselves to be programmed by their rhetoric. At least North Koreans don't have a choice when their governments propaganda programs them, what's our excuse?

SamSam
09-26-2010, 10:57 AM
Hey, it's Capitalism, that's how it works. Profits are the purpose. And in this line of business, they literally have you by the balls.

oznabrag
09-26-2010, 12:28 PM
... Anyone who thinks that the new crop of extremist right wingers are going to be any less influenced by the tidal wave of cash provided by the plutocrats, has got to be certifiably insane

+1.