Sharpies

[ishmael]

I'm sure many are aware of Chapelle's thirty foot sharpie from the boatbuilding book. Double ender not unlike Egret 'cept alot less rocker and quite a bit less sheer.

Okay, I've not seen it for awhile, but I remember it having a huge centerboard. So my question, do you think this design would be easily modified to leeboards? And/or, do you know of any traditionally built sharpies that use leeboards.

I've been looking at Bolger's Black Skimmer, but the thought of all that googe. :eek:

Any and all ideas entertained. Sharpies are wonderful, eh? Does Parker's book contain a cruising sharpie for traditional construction?

TIA

Jack

[imported_Conrad]

Hey Jack- I've been in love with the sharpie in "Boatbuilding" for some time. As an exercise, I put the offsets into a computer design program I've got and confirmed that the boat is indeed properly designed, with optimized Cp, etc. Displacement is about 3800 lbs.- if built in plywood to scantlings similar to those Parker suggests for similar sized craft, you'd need about 1500 lbs. of ballast to bring her down to her lines. I'd put it in a strip bolted to the exterior keel area.

As for the centerboard, I would either change the design to a thinner, more vertical board that would take up much less room in the cabin while offering better performance, or go with leeboards. Having used leeboards for years on our family "Meadowlark" (Herreshoff, in Cruising Designs) I know them to be efficient, cheap, and very little hassel. All in all, a great solution. A third option would be to offset a narrower board into one of the berth sides.

Performance numbers for the design, SA/D, L/D, stability, etc. suggest a much better than average sailer, one that would be further improved by modern construction materials and techniques and the higher ballast ratio that would result.

First guy to get one built shows pictures to the other! :D

[Greg H]

I think all of Parkers designs are plywood on frame with large centerboards. I'll have a look tonight.
I can't see a problem with switching them to leeboards. I have one of Bolger's little sharpies that I switched from leeboards to a daggerboard, and she goes fine.

[ishmael]

Thanks so far.

Conrad,

I used to meditate on that sharpie in Chapelle for hours. It's good to know the numbers work out.

The point of my question is I'm contemplating a boat to build over the next two or three years. I've got plans for Stambaugh's Bahama Moma, but the more I contemplate the more I realize that the goal of a boat is only part of the reason to do it. The other is the process of building, and I don't think I want to spend the time wrapped in tyvek and latex.

No question modern materials are superior, from an engineering standpoint, but I want the entire time to be pleasant. Plus, I'm going to be living next to a sawyer, and have the planking stock, on the hoof, on my new place. At least I think I do. Half a dozen nice second growth Pinus strobus.

Greg,

So that's what I think too. I can't see any reason not to shift to leeboards. No hole in the hull and all the complexity of a centerboard well, plus freeing the cabin up.

Thanks again guys. Others?

Jack

[brian.cunningham]

Trying to remember here, the book is in storage :rolleyes: ...

Peter Culler's? book "Skiffs and Schooners" shows a rather large, and quite nice looking ketch rigged sharpie with a leeboard on it. Be as traditional as you can get.

[johnw]

The reason that centerboard takes up so much room in the boat is that much of it isn't in the water. A modern, vertical board would sit much farther aft, could have a lower case and would probably allow far less leeway. The only trick is to make sure the cover doesn't leak if the boat takes on water, because the lower case does great things for the accomodations but could be not the best for seaworthyness if water could leak in at the top of it. A properly designed board would be so great for the interior.

[ishmael]

So an off center modern foil would be a possiblity, built into the berth flat. To save the cabin from that monster of oak.

Interesting. I'm not necessarily opposed to such.

If I go there, or even with the leeboards, perhaps I'll hire mmd to wonkle the design of it.

[RalphS]

Have you looked at Coot?

http://hometown.aol.com/polytarp/coot.htm

[JimD]

Jack, so far no one seems to have much to say about leeboards, nor I, except - nothing personal - I think they are hideous :D . They make a boat look like some sort of evolutionary wooden boat missing link, like the first boat that ever used its flippers to crawl out on land. They completely destroy the boat's profile (my humble opinion,of course). May I ask, kind sir, why you are considering leeboards? Shoal sailing?
jimd

[imported_Conrad]

more references to leeboards.

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000380

[ishmael]

Hey,

For some reason, Ralph, nuthin' but the beginning text is showing on that link.

HIDEOUS :D . They are a bit ungainly, but that bothers me less than some of their functionality: coming alongside for example. Ya must have to carry a bumper board or sumpthin' when tying up to a pier or going through a lock.

More! :D

[ 03-05-2003, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[N. Scheuer]

Leeboards need to be pivoted at the optimum location, just as do centerboards. Some boat designs have a better plan-form than others for doing this. It helps if the topsides are gerenerally fore-n-aft at the leeboard location.

Another issue is whether to make the leeboards rigid, like Dovekie or hinged, like Meadowlark. If hinged, and the plan form is not optimal, there will be a fair amount of bracing required outboard of the topsides.

Moby Nick

[Jack C]

ishmael,

Parker's book talks about how to build sharpies with traditional construction and modern. Although all of his designs are meant for ply, you could still build them with traditional techniques.

I'm not a fan of leeboards, since they tend to bang around a bit much for my taste. If you went with a leeboard, I prefer the Michalak style of rigidly fixed leeboard (like a centerboard only attached to the gunwale). Otherwise, I would definitely recommend offsetting the centerboard, like in my Norwalk Islands Sharpie 18. It does open up the cabin space enormously. For an extreme example, take a look at the Bolger Windsprint.

Cheers.

Jack

[Greg H]

Have a look at Oughtreds Eu Na Mara. It uses twin centerboards and the cases form the fronts for the berths, keeping the cabin clear. looks like a good arangement.
I looked quickly through Parkers book last night, and he does cover traditional construction. The comment he made about it was that plywood is prefered in larger sharpies, because a large, flat bottom, cross planked boat "works" a lot in any kind of waves. You should definatly get the book, it has plans, constrution details, offsets and material recomendations for half a dozen or so sharpies, round stern, double ended and transom sterned, up to 36'.
Good for dreaming. ;)

[Steve Paskey]

Ralph: Thanks for posting the link to COOT. Darned charming little boat.

Ishmael: Step back for a minute here. If you want leeboards and like BLACK SKIMMER, who says you need to use googe? Why can't you build Black Skimmer using traditional methods, with scantlings and construction details borrowed from other sharpies (such as COOT or the 24-footer in Chapelle's "Boatbuilding")? Given the shape, how hard could it be?

[Keith Wilson]

Black Skimmer is designed for plywood-on frame construction. Slathering the outside with epoxy and fiberglass wouldn't be necessary if you use good plywood, and maybe go a little thicker on the plywood to compensate for the lack of glass.

If I were going to build a sharpie of any type, particuarly a larger one, I'd want something other than a cross-planked bottom - plywood, or build-your-own plywood; multiple layers glued together somehow. It would strengthen the hull and keep the water out a lot better.

I really like the idea of using a long steel plate along the center of a sharpie's bottom for ballast, replacing the traditional big pile of oysters. Not only is steel plate cheap, readily available, and easily cut to shape, it makes a hell of a good grounding shoe.

[htom]

Brian's remembering Old Glory, detailed on pages 102-105 and 72-73. In the book she's discussed as a "file bottomed sharpie", and has a typically Culler clipper bow with high-lift boat falls aft. 36' between perpendiculars, 8'6" beam, 2' draft, 4'6" headroom.

Leeboards ... why put a hole in the bottom of a perfectly good boat, as some more-than-competent designer once asked? And in today's understanding of how bad critters like milfoil and zebra musscles move from place to place, leeboards are much easier to clean than the inside of a centerboard slot.

[Keith Wilson]

Black Skimmer:

http://www.instantboats.com/images/bskimpr2.gif

Bolger now has an optional rig for her, a solent lug, to make it possible to raise the mast singlehanded.

[Dave Hadfield]

I've been thinking about sharpies too.

What about tandem centerboards? Spalding Dunbar liked them. This allows you to put a small one up front, like in Bolger's St. Valery (under or alongside the foreward berth), and one off-center built into the galley front and extending under the bridge deck. Sure, you've got 2 to build, but frankly it doesn't look very difficult. Make the trunks out of plywood and googe them in solidly. On Drake the CB is simple 3/8" steel plate, galvanized, which is easy to make or replace. This configuration allows an open center area. Michalak doesn't build anything into there. (He sleeps on bedroll and sits on a folding chair!) You could copy the simplicity of that or build-in furniture like B and B's Princess Sharpie.

I really don't think having the 2nd board would slow you down all that much, at least with steel plate boards and a narrow slot.

Tandom CBs could be very useful. To heave to, just retract the aft one and sheet in the mizzen. You'd weathercock perfectly. To run downwind retract the forward CB and extend the aft one. Again you'd shoot downwind like an arrow. The WB article on Dakini hinted at slow tacking with the forward board down, but this board would be small, and shouldn't be too difficult to lift as you tack.

As for cross planking, I was thinking of that too, but I was leaning towards making it brutally heavy, perhaps ash, and then encapsulating it to keep the wood dry. This would serve as some of the ballast and provide a very solid bottom for grounding and trailering. Any pounding in a chop would shake the boat less. Easy to build and cheap to buy, too.

To complete the radicalization, I also like Michalak's slot-top open cabin, and the ability to walk on the boat's hull-bottom forward to the mast and sail up front. This simplifies many things, makes it difficult to fall overboard and allows a low profile while sailing, but lots of headroom at anchor. I would, though, want probably 3 "hatches" that would fit together snugly to seal the opening when I'm away or if the day totally craps out.

I love Drake, our ketch, but I also want to explore Canada's northern waters. I think this sort of sharpie would be practical for that.

[Gordy]

Ok guys, I understand not wanting simple, light weight,and strong, stitch-and-glue construction.
However, you mignt want to check out the keel configuration on B&B's Belhaven.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/bel.htm

[Dave Hadfield]

I like their idea of having an off-centerboard, and the other little bilge keel and skeg making a tripod is very creative. (But I wonder what those tiny little sidedecks are for? I think I'd build it raised and flush-decked -- it almost is anyway.) And I'm intrigued with the trimming possibilities of tandem CBs.

As for S and G, I've tried it and I personally would rather drive a ring-nail into a chine log. It's just simpler and neater. I would certainly tape and epoxy the outside of the chine though. I built a sharpie canoe that way last summer and I think it's the method I'll stick with. It produces a hull quickly that's light and strong.

[ 03-05-2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Dave Hadfield ]

[Cdog]

If you like sharpies you might be interseted in Iain Oughtreds new design "HAIKU" described in the latest copy of "Water Craft".

Specs:
LOA: 30'
Beam: 7'9"
Draught:
-boards raised: 12"
-boards lowered: 5'
Displacement: 4300 lbs
Ballast: 1700 ibs
Sail area: 337 sq.ft.

...Richard

[ishmael]

You gentlemen are such a wonder. It's like taking all my thoughts and questions and maunderings, and having them laid out, amplified, picked over, and in some cases answered. What a gift! I'll definately print this one when it's done.

I can't find "Water Craft" around here, more's the pity. I suppose I'll have to subscribe. What's the rig in "Haiku"? I assume it's designed for sheet ply?

Thank you all, very much.

Jack

[Cdog]

Watercraft is a UK based magazine. I'll try and get you some more details.

Water Craft (http://www.watercraft.co.uk)

It has a 2 mast rig, wishbone booms, both sails have a small Gaff.

Looks like it'll be a sweet little boat!

[brian.cunningham]

I forget the WB issue that covered sharpies.
But tandem board were covered along with leeboards.

If your serious I'd get a copy.

BTW Parker has several books.
Both googe and non-googe tradional boats with cross planked bottoms.