PDA

View Full Version : A crude hatchet job on the Pope? Uk Channel Four programme by Peter Tatchell



Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-13-2010, 04:28 PM
I am not quite sure what I made of this; on the one hand it is fairly brutal about the shortcomings of the Roman Church, and this Pope in particular, to an extent that made me, a member of the Episcopal church, feel uncomfortable.

On the other hand, the filming in the Philippines showing the actual effects of the encyclical humanae vitae and the way in which the Roman church in that country actively intervenes in politics to prevent the use of condoms in anti-Aids campaigns, is absolutely true to my own experience.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-trouble-with-the-pope

McMike
09-13-2010, 04:34 PM
can't view it in my area.

S&S.
09-13-2010, 04:38 PM
I am not quite sure what I made of this; on the one hand it is fairly brutal about the shortcomings of the Roman Church, and this Pope in particular, to an extent that made me, a member of the Episcopal church, feel uncomfortable.

On the other hand, the filming in the Philippines showing the actual effects of the encyclical humanae vitae and the way in which the Roman church in that country actively intervenes in politics to prevent the use of condoms in anti-Aids campaigns, is absolutely true to my own experience.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-trouble-with-the-pope

Ummm. and where's the data that handing out condoms and telling the populace go and freely sleep around because they'll actually prevent Aids is working? IIRC HIV is about 20 times smaller than the pore size of a typical latex condom.
Show the data. ;)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-13-2010, 04:44 PM
I reckon that means they have sold the programme to a network in your area, so it will come up on television where you are.

Here are some reviews:

Tatchell himself in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/tvandradioblog/2010/sep/13/peter-tatchell-trouble-with-the-pope

Predictably, the Torygraph goes the other way - Damian Thompson is the former Editor of The Tablet, the main Catholic paper in Britain:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100052875/peter-tatchells-channel-4-hatchet-job-on-the-pope-is-so-crude-that-it-misses-its-target/

and this one is in the "dog bites man" category:

http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=16708

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-13-2010, 04:50 PM
Ummm. and where's the data that handing out condoms and telling the populace go and freely sleep around because they'll actually prevent Aids is working? IIRC HIV is about 20 times smaller than the pore size of a typical latex condom.
Show the data. ;)

Does your recollection extend as far as Mechai Viravaidya?

Peerie Maa
09-13-2010, 04:55 PM
Interesting that the ICN condemns the programme for failing to obtain Catholic input, when the Catholic Church were asked and refused. Good research there by the journalist.

Tom Montgomery
09-13-2010, 04:56 PM
Ummm. and where's the data that handing out condoms and telling the populace go and freely sleep around because they'll actually prevent Aids is working?

Are you actually aware of any evidence that people, upon given condoms to prevent AIDS, are also counseled to go ahead and "freely sleep around?" My understanding is that people are actually counseled to be monogamous.

But perhaps you presume that providing condoms implicitly encourages promiscuity? Are you Roman Catholic?

Tom Montgomery
09-13-2010, 05:24 PM
Ummm. and where's the data that handing out condoms... [to] prevent Aids is working? IIRC HIV is about 20 times smaller than the pore size of a typical latex condom.
Show the data. ;)

Here you go: (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/prevention.htm)


Latex condoms, when used consistently and correctly, are highly effective in preventing heterosexual sexual transmission of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. Research on the effectiveness of latex condoms in preventing heterosexual transmission is both comprehensive and conclusive. The ability of latex condoms to prevent transmission has been scientifically established in laboratory studies as well as in epidemiologic studies of uninfected persons at very high risk of infection because they were involved in sexual relationships with HIV-infected partners. The most recent meta-analysis of epidemiologic studies of condom effectiveness was published by Weller and Davis in 2004. This analysis refines and updates their previous report published in 1999. The analysis demonstrates that the consistent use of latex condoms provides a high degree of protection against heterosexual transmission of HIV. It should be noted that condom use cannot provide absolute protection against HIV. The surest way to avoid transmission of HIV is to abstain from sexual intercourse or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and you know is uninfected.

Additional information:
CDC NCHSTP Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention. Fact Sheet: Male latex condoms and sexually transmitted diseases. (http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/latex.htm)

Pinkerton SD and Abramson PR. Effectiveness of condoms in preventing HIV transmission. Soc Sci Med 1997; 44:1303-1312.

Davis KR and Weller SC. The effectiveness of condoms in reducing heterosexual transmission of HIV. Fam Plann Perspect 1999;31:272-279.

Weller S, Davis K. Condom effectiveness in reducing heterosexual HIV transmission (Cochrane Review). In: The Cochrane Library, Issue 2, 2004. Chichester, UK, John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

CDC NCHSTP. Condom Effectiveness Bibliography. (http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/references.html)

Enjoy your reading!

Chris Coose
09-13-2010, 05:28 PM
No words to describe an apologist when they get around to defending the Catholic Church on sexuality.
I mean it. I have no words. What comes to mind is not funny, not angry... nothing but dullness and vacancy due to having at some points in my life trying to negotiate the most absurd BS that has ever been uttered by the human tongue.
Hitler made more sense.

stevebaby
09-13-2010, 05:37 PM
Ummm. and where's the data that handing out condoms and telling the populace go and freely sleep around because they'll actually prevent Aids is working? IIRC HIV is about 20 times smaller than the pore size of a typical latex condom.
Show the data. ;)How is the size of the virus itself relevant? IIRC,the virus exists inside a cell,so it's the size of the host cell that's more relevant.
I know you won't answer though.

skuthorp
09-13-2010, 05:48 PM
No words to describe an apologist when they get around to defending the Catholic Church on sexuality.
I mean it. I have no words. What comes to mind is not funny, not angry... nothing but dullness and vacancy due to having at some points in my life trying to negotiate the most absurd BS that has ever been uttered by the human tongue.
Hitler made more sense.

Agree, but mentioning Mr H. usually disqualifies the protagonist. Rome head office does the good work of the church no end of harm.

willmarsh3
09-13-2010, 06:00 PM
can't view it in my area.

Wait a day or two and it may appear on a bit torrent download.

WX
09-13-2010, 06:22 PM
I see the Catholic church is in deep excrement in Belgium.

botebum
09-13-2010, 06:27 PM
Ummm. and where's the data that handing out condoms and telling the populace go and freely sleep around because they'll actually prevent Aids is working? IIRC HIV is about 20 times smaller than the pore size of a typical latex condom.
Show the data. ;)Moron


Here you go: (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/prevention.htm)



Enjoy your reading!Thank-you.


How is the size of the virus itself relevant? IIRC,the virus exists inside a cell,so it's the size of the host cell that's more relevant.
I know you won't answer though.Thank-you.

Doug

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-14-2010, 04:14 AM
The gist of the programme was really that Pope Benedict, although by all accounts a charming man, does not fully appreciate the nature of the problems that confront his Church, and his way of dealing with them, by hewing to orthodoxy, which he understands very well, may not be the best method. There was an implied contrast with John XXIII and to some extent with John Paul II.

As noted, as a member of a rather similar Church, viewing a programme made from the perspective of assertive non-belief, there were times when I felt uncomfortable, particularly in the first segments, dealing with the Roman Church in Europe and the USA and focussing inevitably on the child molestation issue, but I did feel the segment of the programme made in the Phlippines, where the Roman Chuch is very "traditional", was in accordance with what I had seen for myself.

Peerie Maa
09-14-2010, 06:23 AM
Are you aware of any evidence the Church on telling people not to use condoms then tells them to go ahead and freely sleep around? My understanding is that the Church counsels them to be chaste while single and monogamous after marriage.

Yep, that has a great record of sucess down through the years. ;)

Tom Montgomery
09-14-2010, 06:24 PM
Are you aware of any evidence the Church on telling people not to use condoms then tells them to go ahead and freely sleep around
Nope.

My understanding is that the Church counsels them to be chaste while single and monogamous after marriage.
Yep. I guess those who contract AIDS are only getting what's coming to them. Right? After all, engaging in sex without intending to procreate is evil and sinful. And those who are infected by cheating spouses should know better than to trust such low lifes.

Tom Montgomery
09-14-2010, 06:33 PM
I see the Catholic church is in deep excrement in Belgium.

Yep:

Belgian church officials will begin interviews Tuesday as a follow-up to a church-backed investigation that detailed hundreds of assertions of sexual abuse of children by clergy and others working for the church from the 1950s into the late 1980s. It was led by Dr. Peter Adriaenssens, who is both a church investigator and a psychiatrist.

"From the mistakes of the past, we wish to take the necessary lessons," said Archbishop Andre-Joseph Leonard, the head of the Catholic Church in Belgium. "In the interviews that will be conducted from tomorrow, we will consider the relevant reflexions and proposals of Professor Adriaenssens."

The process will take time, because "it is impossible to try to resolve these traumatic experiences too quickly," Leonard said.

"We want to commit ourselves to giving the maximum support for the victims," he said. "We must listen to their questions in order to restore their dignity and help heal the suffering they have endured."

The commission said it received about 500 reports from alleged victims, about 60 percent of them from males.

It cited 320 alleged abusers, of whom 102 were known to have been clergy members from 29 congregations.

Thirteen of the alleged victims committed suicide, it said.

"We can say that not a single congregation escaped sexual abuse of minors by one or more of its members," the Commission on Church-Related Sexual Abuse Complaints said Friday.

"The stories they contain and suffering make us shudder," Leonard said.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-13/world/belgium.church.abuse_1_clergy-members-catholic-church-belgium?_s=PM:WORLD

GregH
09-14-2010, 07:52 PM
Condoms, abortion, women's rights, it really doesn't matter the issue- the only goal of the pope and his perverted underling henchmen is to maintain their control and promotion of the catholic church at all costs- preferably at the expense of the poor and uneducated.

tigerregis
09-14-2010, 10:27 PM
The article said "absolute protection" cannot be guaranteed. We know that absolution can be handed out in a confessional. Do RC priests use condoms when indulging in their behaviour? Please reconcile the abuse of research (article) and the known and proven guilt of some clergy. Payments are proof enough that Ratslinger has known for years and Paul before him. " Oh you know,that's his little weakness." Meanwhile, a plethora of broken people have had their tough times getting back to normal.
Alta Res, a high place. Altar debased with some of these pedophiles.

downthecreek
09-15-2010, 02:41 AM
Interesting article.book review in the London Review of Books by Colm Toibin

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v32/n16/colm-toibin/among-the-flutterers

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-15-2010, 04:02 AM
Good article. Thanks.

BETTY-B
09-15-2010, 12:18 PM
Wait a day or two and it may appear on a bit torrent download.

Good call. Looks good, unfortunately I have to wait till after work to watch it.


http://www.kickasstorrents.com/dispatches-the-trouble-with-the-pope-ws-pdtv-xvid-ftp-t4436026.html

BETTY-B
09-16-2010, 02:55 AM
Good doc. Or bad, if you see it that way. Either way, that much power should not be in the hands of such cruel humans.