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paladin
09-12-2010, 09:38 PM
Default Re: Gun Control Saves Lives

A little off topic....sorta.....
When I first moved to Thailand I was working the Thai/Lao border right on the river near Nakhon Phanom, across the river from Tak Ek, Lao, and every night watched the tracers run back and forth between the Khymer Rouge and other folks....once in a while they would come in our direction and the spent rounds would rattle on the tin roofs of our houses.....we lived right on the river. The landlords were a pair of Thai school teachers. They found me my Housegirl.
She was in her late 20's, very nice young lady, attractive, 2 kids and a husband that apparently not very nice.
I would come home, remove the magazine from my weapon, clear the chamber and hang the shoulder rig on a chair and toss a shirt over it.....shower, dinner, sleep........she never came near the gun...would walk around the table to avoid it. Thais are very quiet/polite people.
About 6 months on I had been on the Ho Chi Minh run several days in a row and came in beat to death every night...she had a hot bath for me ready, dinner, then would return home as a normal rule. One night I noticed she was sleeping on the sofa in the living room. I asked the landlords what was wrong. they were very polite and said they would ask her to go elsewhere if I objected.....it turns out that her husband had been whacking around on her to bring her earnings straight to him, he spent it on booze, and she was using it for food for her kids....I did notice that she had some bruises. She had sent her kids to stay with a sister and was staying in my house.
Husband shows up one weekend and demands money from me....I asked what for?....he wanted her salary...I said no, it was hers, not his. Don't come back to my house...another month goes by and I come home to find him in my house screaming and threatening his wife. Then he threatens me.....I threw him out the window...maybe 6 feet to the ground...he left...rather loudly.....I called cops...they agreed to "have a talk with him"...I greased their palms.
After that, I asked her to sit and have dinner with me, and not to hide in the kitchen. I helped her pick up the dishes etc.....then one evening I took out my little FEG, showed her how to remove the magazine, check the chamber for a round, then reload the magazine, and then insert into the weapon and rechamber a round. My next door neighbor did the same with his housegirl and we took them to the range one weekend and let them shoot.
Since I was flying over the Ho Chi Minh trail I started carrying the High Standard, and the Browning in the shoulder holster and leaving the FEG at home. I also had purchased a box of blanks to get the girls accustomed to the noise. I left the blanks at home also with a spare magazine.
One evening, late, I returned home, dropped off by our Microbus service, and the neighbor and his housegirl, the landlords, and my housegirl were all sitting outside laughing and joking, the charcoal was burning, satay on the grill, lotsa ice and cherry limeade as I had taught her to make...wondering what was going on. Husband had showed up with a couple of friends intent on teaching the Farang and his wife some manners....she ran into the house and locked the door....grabbed the gun and loaded it with blanks...they broke the door and came inside with a couple of clubs and a machete.....she cut down on them with the blanks..at close range and obviously made an impression...the racket made the girl next door load her weapon with live rounds and then she came charging....and Noi grabbed the magazine of live rounds and went after them. The local police got them....and came around.....they spent a month in a deep dark hole and were told to leave and go far far away...Noi got a divorce, the landlords were amazed and happy at the same time. She was my housegirl for about another year, eventually married the Thai "kicker" on my plane...and last check had six more kids....still living in the same place. I bought her a 90 cc Honda for her birthday and her status in the neighborhood soared. Her grandfather was the old man in the pictures that I posted building the centerboard case on the 31 foot Searunner tri, and also the lapstrake dink.

Wakan Tanka Kici Un
..a bad day sailing is a heckuva lot better than the best day at work.....
Fighting Illegal immigration since 1492....
Live your life so that whenever you lose, you're ahead."
"If you live life right, death is a joke as far as fear is concerned."

paladin
09-12-2010, 09:48 PM
For a few years our flight operations were out of Lopburi, and there was a small amount of wooden boatbuilding going on there, mostly displacement type cargo boats with small putt putts in them hauling grain (rice) from the northern parts of the country to the southern part. The boats would be built under sheds, sometimes and the wives worked all the time. The husbands would work from early morming until it was too hot to work (9:30-10a.m. until about2:3--3:30 p.m.. The wives and kids were expected to do work, just slow down a little. My housgirl brought me lunch at about 12. I had 2 airconditioners installed under the canvas while working on the boat. She and the kids would sit under it with me and have their lunch....husbands slept.

seanz
09-12-2010, 11:28 PM
A far superior thread to that "gun control saves lives" malarkey

:)

Phillip Allen
09-13-2010, 05:02 AM
yeah, but look at the attention it gets

Scott Rosen
09-13-2010, 05:27 AM
Thanks Chuck

mcclendon
09-13-2010, 06:19 AM
"Teaching gun control can save lives"......I have always thought so.

TerryLL
09-13-2010, 08:07 AM
Thanks for that story Chuck. Sure beats listening to Phillip and Ian scream at each other. There is so much middle ground between those two, and neither one will risk even the smallest step.

Phillip Allen
09-13-2010, 11:07 AM
Thanks for that story Chuck. Sure beats listening to Phillip and Ian scream at each other. There is so much middle ground between those two, and neither one will risk even the smallest step.

I don't see Ian as the other extreme at all...he gets upset that his brilliant (though biased) research isn't respected. I am also pretty sure that he thinks of himself as being even-handed

TerryLL
09-13-2010, 03:29 PM
I don't see Ian as the other extreme at all...he gets upset that his brilliant (though biased) research isn't respected. I am also pretty sure that he thinks of himself as being even-handed

Well Phillip, I believe I stand somewhere in the middle of the endless war of words that you and Ian are waging. I see both of you as highly opinionated (not a bad thing), but totally inflexible in your views. The number of gun deaths in the US is cause for concern, and there are very practical ways to bring that number down without treading on anyone's right of ownership.

The Bigfella
09-13-2010, 03:41 PM
Well Phillip, I believe I stand somewhere in the middle of the endless war of words that you and Ian are waging. I see both of you as highly opinionated (not a bad thing), but totally inflexible in your views. The number of gun deaths in the US is cause for concern, and there are very practical ways to bring that number down without treading on anyone's right of ownership.

I agree with your last sentence Terry. No-one here trod on my rights to ownership and I own the same number of guns now as I did in 1996. Same guns in fact. All that's changed is that I'm licenced and my guns are registered and secured. I shoot more often now than I did then.

Scott Rosen
09-13-2010, 05:02 PM
Statistics are interesting -- sometimes. But arguing over how many German Jews would have been killed if they had weapons is kinda like arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin . . . .

Anyway, no point in compromising over abstract principles or conceding hypothetical arguments, especially when you know you're right and the other guy is wrong.

Phillip Allen
09-13-2010, 05:09 PM
depends on the brand of pin...

diesel_pusher
09-13-2010, 09:35 PM
The only real gun control needed is a proper breathing, adequate "sight picture" and a steady sq.u.e.e.z.e..... make sure the RIGHT person gets shot. Its a forever decision, make sure its the right one. For those who believe in confiscatory gun control, a
trip to Luke.Gedeon's website would be informative. luke.gedeon.history-of-gun-control/html. Its "funny" how its ALWAYS
the "left of Center" folks want to "control" our guns. Socialist/Communists kind enough to give us Nazi Germany ( German Socialist Workers Party) the USSR and Communist China et.al. Any and every totalitarian state first wants the guns. THEN they can do anything they want and we're powerless to stop them. No THINKING person can study history and believe in confiscatory gun control. The Soviet Union was a total police state. Shoulda been safe right??? The only ones with the guns were the Government and the Russian Mafia. Everyone else in between was "little people". I find the Liberal argument to be infantile and unrealistic. In the abscence of guns, SWORDS, SPEARS, Rocks and sharp sticks etc will always be used by those bigger, stronger and more vicious and those lacking in Moral Conscience. The Human Race is "fallen". Thank God for Jesus on the Cross and John Browning in his shop in 1911.

seanz
09-13-2010, 09:53 PM
The only real gun control needed is a proper breathing, adequate "sight picture" and a steady sq.u.e.e.z.e..... make sure the RIGHT person gets shot. Its a forever decision, make sure its the right one. For those who believe in confiscatory gun control, a
trip to Luke.Gedeon's website would be informative. luke.gedeon.history-of-gun-control/html. Its "funny" how its ALWAYS
the "left of Center" folks want to "control" our guns. Socialist/Communists kind enough to give us Nazi Germany ( German Socialist Workers Party) the USSR and Communist China et.al. Any and every totalitarian state first wants the guns. THEN they can do anything they want and we're powerless to stop them. No THINKING person can study history and believe in confiscatory gun control. The Soviet Union was a total police state. Shoulda been safe right??? The only ones with the guns were the Government and the Russian Mafia. Everyone else in between was "little people". I find the Liberal argument to be infantile and unrealistic. In the abscence of guns, SWORDS, SPEARS, Rocks and sharp sticks etc will always be used by those bigger, stronger and more vicious and those lacking in Moral Conscience. The Human Race is "fallen". Thank God for Jesus on the Cross and John Browning in his shop in 1911.

The National Socialist German Workers Party?

diesel_pusher
09-13-2010, 10:10 PM
My apology, NSDAP, National Socialist German Worker's Party. Nazi for short. Freedom and Personal Safety require constant vigilance , either of ones immediate enviroment or of societal trends as a whole. There's a reason proper and detailed history isnt taught in our public schools. Its easier to mis-lead an un-informed population. Propaganda or how to manipulate people's mental attitudes, was invented by the Germans (Freud et.al.) and perfected by the Soviets.
The term propaganda, having such bad press, was called "Marketing" when the same science was brought over and used in the USA. The Socialist/ "closet communists" AKA Democrats have been using it quite regularly. Read Wayne Perryman's fine book, "Unfounded Loyalty" Hara Publishing Group 2004. To see how it has been used to mis-lead an entire segment of our society.

coelacanth2
09-13-2010, 10:28 PM
Don't forget Col. Colt...

RodSBT
09-13-2010, 10:37 PM
Murder has been immoral and illegal for thousands of years. What ever weapon is used to commit the crime is irrelevant.

Paladin's story exemplifies the very reason why George Washington referred to the Second Amendment as "Liberty's Teeth".

stevebaby
09-13-2010, 10:44 PM
My apology, NSDAP, National Socialist German Worker's Party. Nazi for short. Freedom and Personal Safety require constant vigilance , either of ones immediate enviroment of societal trends as a whole. There's a reason proper and detailed history isnt taught in our public schools. Its easier to mis-lead an un-informed population.

It's very easy to mislead the kind of person who believes that the Mormons defeated the US Army.

diesel_pusher
09-13-2010, 11:12 PM
True, No major Battles were fought in the UTAH WAR. HistoryNet.com. NOT the abreviated wikipedia version. However, the Mormons, being well armed and not trusting of the "great White Leaders" in Washington much as the indigenous tribes were, my money would be on the Mormons. The US Army's 2000 mile supply line and no modern communications. The Mormons woulda creamed them, having the hometown advantage. Also, the Jews DID do pretty well, all things considered, during Warsaw Ghetto uprising in 1943 against the German Army. Using captured weapons after having been disarmed years earlier by the various governments in control. Also, I dont see any disagreements with the luke.gedeon.history-of-gun-control website. Technology ( FLIR) today would give the modern army easy superiority over a public uprising. However, "Total Resistance" H.Von Dach is a mental attitude more than just owning the latest hardware. Another reason the LIBERAL LEFT is always trying to feminize and passify the USA. Testosterone scares them. The only people that are now confrontational ARE the LEFT as a form of social strategy. As Obama said, "Get in their face". Our children are taught to be passive. People were amazed when students at the Virginia College just sat there PASSIVELY waiting for their doom, 2007. The Professor, a Romanian Jew, Liviu Librescu, himself a holocaust survivor, blocked the door with his body while instructing students to jump from the windows. He was himself killed in the assualt. Americans must remember, Thomas Jefferson 1802 : "..... homeless on the continent their fathers conquered". We CONQUERED it, we fought to get it, we WILL Have to fight to keep it. Even in America's streets tomorrow. "Negotiations are for those who have lost" R.Burns 2010 just a few thoughts. dp

stevebaby
09-14-2010, 12:15 AM
True, No major Battles were fought in the UTAH WAR.

Technology ( FLIR) today would give the modern army easy superiority over a public uprising. ...which is exactly what I already told you. :D The fact is that no battles of any kind took place between the Mormons and the US Army.
Maybe you could try using your much-vaunted system of democracy to settle disputes with your government. Of course you won't.The agenda of your kind isn't to "usurp tyranny" at all,is it? It's to impose tyranny on others at the point of a gun.

Phillip Allen
09-14-2010, 06:35 AM
Oh, horse poop, Steve
(what do policemen impose at the point of a gun...?)

stevebaby
09-14-2010, 06:44 AM
Oh, horse poop, Steve
(what do policemen impose at the point of a gun...?)The Rule of Law...the basis of every modern democracy.If you don't like that you could always try living somewhere that doesn't have it.
If you survive,you'll change your mind.
The real reason some of these nutters want to hang on their weapons isn't to usurp tyrants,as I said.It's because they don't have the numbers to change their government by lawful means and foolishly believe (or profess to believe...they don't seem real keen to start) that their handguns will be effective at toppling a powerful modern state.

Phillip Allen
09-14-2010, 06:50 AM
The Rule of Law...the basis of every modern democracy.If you don't like that you could always try living somewhere that doesn't have it.
If you survive,you'll change your mind.
The real reason some of these nutters want to hang on their weapons isn't to usurp tyrants,as I said.It's because they don't have the numbers to change their government by lawful means and follishly believe (or profess to believe...they don't seem real keen to start) that their handguns will be effective at toppling a powerful modern state.

who's law?...Steve's or Hitler's or someone nice...it all looks the same from the ground lookin up at the muzzle

stevebaby
09-14-2010, 07:40 AM
who's law?...Steve's or Hitler's or someone nice...it all looks the same from the ground lookin up at the muzzleI don't make laws.The voters make laws by electing representatives who enact legislation on their behalf. If you or anyone else don't like obeying them,and you have made it obvious that you don't,then you will eventually wear the consequences that your fellow citizens have,through their representatives,decided on.
BTW...Hitler's been dead for 65 years,so I doubt he'll be making any laws.
Given the murder rate in your country,I rather think it's more likely that you'll be looking into a muzzle before I will.

Phillip Allen
09-14-2010, 07:51 AM
what law have you seen or heard of me breaking, Steve?

PeterSibley
09-14-2010, 07:56 AM
who's law?...Steve's or Hitler's or someone nice...it all looks the same from the ground lookin up at the muzzle

If a US citizen can't work out who's law a cop is enforcing you guys are in worse shape than I thought .:rolleyes:

Phillip Allen
09-14-2010, 08:00 AM
If a US citizen can't work out who's law a cop is enforcing you guys are in worse shape than I thought .:rolleyes:

I'm too lazy to look it up for ya...but the internet is full of cops breaking laws and getting by with it...I'll "discuss" but you have to join in in good faith

stevebaby
09-14-2010, 08:08 AM
I'm too lazy to look it up for ya...but the internet is full of cops breaking laws and getting by with it...I'll "discuss" but you have to join in in good faithAnd of course the internet is full of stories of other people who break laws too...far more than any police officer.

Phillip Allen
09-14-2010, 08:31 AM
And of course the internet is full of stories of other people who break laws too...far more than any police officer.

how about per capita?

stevebaby
09-14-2010, 08:44 AM
The United States Department of Justice ("DOJ") estimates that nearly seven million people are under criminal justice supervision, incarcerated in state and federal prisons and local jails, on probation, or on parole. (4) Tens of millions more have a criminal history record on file with state or federal governments. (5) This means that about twenty-five percent of the nation's adult population lives a substantial portion of their lives with a criminal record.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6562/is_5_30/ai_n29054798/

Phillip Allen
09-14-2010, 11:04 AM
The United States Department of Justice ("DOJ") estimates that nearly seven million people are under criminal justice supervision, incarcerated in state and federal prisons and local jails, on probation, or on parole. (4) Tens of millions more have a criminal history record on file with state or federal governments. (5) This means that about twenty-five percent of the nation's adult population lives a substantial portion of their lives with a criminal record.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6562/is_5_30/ai_n29054798/

to get back to guns...of the numbers above, remove all who did not perpatrate their crimes with a gun and we'll start it again. I may be cheating here since cops are, by defination in this country, armed...it would follow then that an armed cop who shoplifted something, did so while armed...there must be a way to compensate for this temptation

diesel_pusher
09-14-2010, 11:06 AM
I guess that coming from a nation that was initially populated by the "incarerated" makes you both experts on criminal activity in OUR country. I Dont think so. Throw another shrimp on the barbie while you're thinking about it. I was a cop for a couple years before going back to school for a medical degree. I never met an ARMED victim. many crimes are simply averted when the perpetrator has a good idea that the victim is armed and WILLING to defend themselves. The cowardly and lazy criminal will gladly seek easier prey. This was evident from a study by David Kopel 2001. The greatest fear a criminal had was being comfronted, in the act, by an armed homeowner/business owner. Also, Florida had a PRECIPITOUS drop in "crimes against persons" when their carry-conceiled law went into effect in 1987. Vermont has traditionally had one of the lowest levels of crime in the USA. This due in part because of their carry-conceiled law. In Vermont, if you're big enough to carry it, you CAN carry it. In the USA, those areas with the strictest gun control laws, have the HIGHEST rates of crime.
The criminals not being respectors of the law dont you know. Crimes are committed with sharpened screw-drivers etc if not ILLEGALLY possessed firearms, stolen from other locales.
The USA was founded by Farmers who defeated the Greatest World Power of that time, The U.K. with simple firearms AND the willingness to use them.
The Afghanis defeated the Soviet Union, with help from the USA (stinger missiles) with iron determination NOT to submitt to an atheistic totalitarian state.
The Islamic insurgents have caused no end of difficulty with I.E.D.'s in the Middle East. We shouldnt be there but taking the fight to the enemy was preferable to waging the war on home turf i.e malls and schoolyards.
As H.Von Dachs notes, it isnt the mere POSSESSION of weapons that makes a man dangerous but the MIND-set the individual possesses which cannot be taken away.
THUS, Totalitarian states seek to "educate" individuals into a passive routine of behavior. The Soviet State had individuals
standing in line all day for such basics as Soap, Tooth paste, Bread, Toilet paper etc. The individual was WORN OUT by their daily existance. Stevebaby: I find your arguement to be sorely lacking in historical if not contemporary fact.

Phillip Allen
09-14-2010, 11:14 AM
I guess that coming from a nation that was initially populated by the "incarerated" makes you both experts on criminal activity in OUR country. I Dont think so. Throw another shrimp on the barbie while you're thinking about it. I was a cop for a couple years before going back to school for a medical degree. I never met an ARMED victim. many crimes are simply averted when the perpetrator has a good idea that the victim is armed and WILLING to defend themselves. The cowardly and lazy criminal will gladly seek easier prey. This was evident from a study by David Kopel 2001. The greatest fear a criminal had was being comfronted, in the act, by an armed homeowner/business owner. Also, Florida had a PRECIPITOUS drop in "crimes against persons" when their carry-conceiled law went into effect in 1987. Vermont has traditionally had one of the lowest levels of crime in the USA. This due in part because of their carry-conceiled law. In Vermont, if you're big enough to carry it, you CAN carry it. In the USA, those areas with the strictest gun control laws, have the HIGHEST rates of crime.
The criminals not being respectors of the law dont you know. Crimes are committed with sharpened screw-drivers etc if not ILLEGALLY possessed firearms, stolen from other locales.
The USA was founded by Farmers who defeated the Greatest World Power of that time, The U.K. with simple firearms AND the willingness to use them.
The Afghanis defeated the Soviet Union, with help from the USA (stinger missiles) with iron determination NOT to submitt to an atheistic totalitarian state.
The Islamic insurgents have caused no end of difficulty with I.E.D.'s in the Middle East. We shouldnt be there but taking the fight to the enemy was preferable to waging the war on home turf i.e malls and schoolyards.
As H.Von Dachs notes, it isnt the mere POSSESSION of weapons that makes a man dangerous but the MIND-set the individual possesses which cannot be taken away.
THUS, Totalitarian states seek to "educate" individuals into a passive routine of behavior. The Soviet State had individuals
standing in line all day for such basics as Soap, Tooth paste, Bread, Toilet paper etc. The individual was WORN OUT by their daily existance. Stevebaby: I find your arguement to be sorely lacking in historical if not contemporary fact.

one must remember, Steve was a cop and therefore first victim of the education/conditioning you mention above. No one (not even me) wants to HAVE been wrong and we, therefore, defend our mistakes vigerosly (sp).

I try not to offend normally but it is too late for me with many here...I learn a bit every day though

purri
09-14-2010, 07:34 PM
I guess that coming from a nation that was initially populated by the "incarerated" makes you both experts on criminal activity in OUR country.

Initially populated?

Well then, I must just be a figleaf of my imagination.

History lesson on Aboriginal OZ anyone?

seanz
09-14-2010, 07:45 PM
I'm sure any sort of history lesson would be more than helpful.
;):)

paladin
09-14-2010, 08:07 PM
Darn...everyone knows that all youse folks down there are crooks......or whatizzitt youse calls yourselves..."Bushrangers"....You have Ned Kelly, we have Jesse James.

stevebaby
09-14-2010, 08:35 PM
Darn...everyone knows that all youse folks down there are crooks......or whatizzitt youse calls yourselves..."Bushrangers"....You have Ned Kelly, we have Jesse James.Ned Kelly was a ruthless killer and a thief who mutilated his victims. He was no great loss to the world when he was hanged.
Convicts were transported to Australia over a period of 80 years as a direct result of the American Revolution,which ended the practice of sending them to the Americas,something which had been going on over a period of 150 years.
Since convict transportation occurred earlier in America and given the present disparity in population size,there are probably more descendants of convicts in the USA than there are in Oz.
I doubt anyone in Oz cares in the slightest when convict ancestry is used as a slur though. Quite the opposite actually...there are plenty of descendents who are rather proud of it. Some of the convicts were political prisoners, while others were transported by compassionate Judges whose only sentencing alternatives were transportation or death,often for very trivial offences.
One of them (whose name i have forgotten) was an 11 year old girl who had been sentenced to death for "highway robbery". She had snatched a piece of lace from another child in the street

paladin
09-14-2010, 08:57 PM
sentenced to death for "highway robbery". She had snatched a piece of lace from another child in the street

Today, in some countries, you would have a hand removed.

seanz
09-14-2010, 10:18 PM
Ned Kelly was a ruthless killer and a thief who mutilated his victims. He was no great loss to the world when he was hanged.


Yep, he was a terrible, terrible person......he caused a Royal Commision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Kelly#The_Kelly_aftermath_and_the_lessons).... .and he never appologised for it.
:rolleyes: