How much is too far gone for lapstrake?

[artman]

I grew up with wood lapstrakes. My uncle offered me his 65 Oconto Cruiser 17ft lapstrake to restore. After pulling the floor I found ribs are gone where the floor met the side. planking is gone from floor to keel. Inside keel seams ok, but I'm sure needs work. the boat spent too much time outside. I hate to see her go to the scrap pile but i think it is close. I understand steaming ribs and have helped with this before, but they all need to be replaced in the back have of the boat. can this be done without the boat falling apart? I am not afraid of a big project, but i am concerned that the boat will become deformed if i start to take it apart.
Input from you very knowledgeable experts would be appreciated. I want to know if i should pull it home, or to the firepit!

[floatingkiwi]

You said yourself that your Uncle gave you the boat to restore, not to take to the firepit!
If it still floats and is in one piece, it can be restored. That is my opinion. Others may differ. Why don't you post some pics so that we can see what it is we are talkin about here?

Btw, you wouldn't want to take it apart either, but more replace each piece, a piece at a time so as to preserve hull shape etc.

[nedL]

I'm going through a second rebuild of a 16' lapstrake skiff of mine. I rebuilt her the first time back in the '70's from a rough gutted hull, and am now completely re-ribbing her & replacing about a half dozen planks in her bottom. This time her shape had some issues, some planking was really bad & most of her ribs were in pieces. I started by bending in all the new ribs, replacing every other one, replacing the bad planking, & then will be replacing the other half of the ribs.

What I started with in '77.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8df10b3127ccec36b5438c16b00000010O02Bbs3DVuzZA9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After the first rebuild int he '80's
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8df10b3127ccec36aa9e4a11d00000010O02Bbs3DVuzZA9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

New ribs going in a couple of years ago.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8df10b3127ccec36a29b0a10900000010O02Bbs3DVuzZA9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

This is how bad some of the planks were.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8df10b3127ccec36abf1da1ef00000010O02Bbs3DVuzZA9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

New planking on one side, - still have to do the other.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8df10b3127ccec36baf83813500000010O02Bbs3DVuzZA9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[JimD]

You can use the old boat as a template and replace every plank and rib and sundry other parts until nothing is left of the original. Its been done before. It comes down to whether or not you want to.

[artman]

I was ready to say no, but after sleeping on it i realize the price is right. If i go out and buy a fixerupper I will have more money and less time, But I think I can do this job. I do not have the boat yet, I have to figuer out how to get it home first. where to get the wood ect. This is my second restore job. the first was a fiberglass Glastron (given to me as well) that one the motor got expensive (volvo) this one I am mostly thinking of the boat at this time.
If I build a wood cage and frame work around it, and under it to hold it solid together, can i replace say every third rib at a time?

[240sxguy]

www.thompsondockside.com (http://www.thompsondockside.com) may be of some use to you as well. Lots of lapstrake guys over there, this site gets way more traffic though.

[artman]

When you replaced your planking, was the old ribs still in the boat? the one I am looking to the planking is all there (soft) but the ribs are gone on the bottom side bend. it is a tight bend. I am confused what would be replaced first, the planking then the ribs or vise versa?

[mucrewbtp]

If you have the hull supported well you should be able to replace every other rib without any problems. I wouLd replace the ribs first then do the planking when you have a solid framework. Take a look at my thread here: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?109112-Replacing-ribs-in-a-Lyman

I just finished replacing the majority of the ribs in the boat an it is all documented in detail on the thread. Feel free to email me if you want to discuss it in more depth: mike@zoneaviation.com

Regards,
Mike

[artman]

I have decided to take on the project. I will bring it home in the next few weeks and take a few pics to post. I feel I can do the restoration, But i will spend some time studying what is left. (which is not much). When i get to the reconstruction I will take all the help i can get. putting in the new ribs will be a challange for how much of a bend they make at the splash rail, and how soft the planking is where the rib is to go. I have never been called too speedy at my projects so this may take awhile.

Thank you for all your input. It is nice to know i am not alone in this.

Artman

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

Yup, go for it. There have plenty of similar boats completely rebuilt with all new ribs, keel, stringers, and planking, etc...


www.thompsondocksid.com (http://www.thompsondocksid.com) is the place to go - the discussion forum. It is the owner's group for Thompson et.al. boats. Cruisers, Inc. was a spin-off that came out of Thompson Bros. Boat Mfg. Co. in 1953.

Brochures for Cruisers, Inc. are available for purchase on CD-ROM at www.wcha.org (http://www.wcha.org) and www.dragonflycanoe.com (http://www.dragonflycanoe.com) and they are on the Thomspon Bros. Boat CD.

Andreas

[S&S.]

Aah memories. I had a 1958 17' thompson . :D :D

[RFNK]

Good luck! As far as building a framework around the hull to support it goes, you don't need much. But before you do that anyway, measure it to see what shape it's really in - check for symmetry. If you've already lost a few frames and planks, it may already be a little out of shape, so get it back into shape with a bit of bracing before you start installing the new frames. It would be great if you could get the original plan as a reference - might not be too difficult?
Rick

[artman]

From what i understand, Cruiser had a fire and most old information is lost. I believe the only shape issue I see is where it stands on the bunks on the trailer. But first, I have to make room for it in my shop, and do some wood shopping.

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

That's a "myth" about the fire and loss of information.

What kind of information do you want? Brochures are available for purchase on CD-ROM. Hull cards exist for their boats built after circa 1961. The company sometimes is willing to look up the information. Not always. Depends upon who you contact and how busy things are at the time. There are NO plans or hull offsets for any of their wooden boats. Never were.

Model year can be determined from the hull ID which is stamped into the wood of the transom inside the boat. Usually starboard side, sometimes stamped upside down. Sometimes covered up by some component added to the transom. On boats built after circa 1963 the hull ID is also stamped into a small metal strip that is nailed to the outside of the hull, about midships just under the gunwale. Can't recall if it is onport or starboard side. It gets painted over and sometimes gets removed and not reinstalled. Don't pay much attention to the paperwork as it is notorious for being inaccurte.

Model can be determined from construction details, seating, hull shape and dimensions: centerline length; gunwale length; beam; transom width. Is there a HP and weight capacity rating plate on the boat? This is important too.

Andreas

[artman]

I jacked the trailer up and pulled the flat tires out of the ground. I aired them all up and checked the bearings. 3 are good 1 not so much, but it should be ok for the 5 mile trip home. Now, I need to set up a day and a few guys to pull this out of the yard it is in and onto some pavement. she might come home thursday night. Sorry guys, I forgot to take a few picks while there.

[artman]

We had a 60 Thompson 17 foot Sea Lancer growing up. I have been looking for one like it to fix up, but they are far and few between.

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

Thompson 17 ft. Sea Lancers are a dime a dozen. OK, maybe not that common. But there are lots of 'em I see for sale all the time. I have restored and sold three of 'em: 1959; 1961; and 1965. All were made by Thompson Bros. Boat Mfg. Co. at Peshtigo, WI. Look at ebay and craigs list. I just did a quick national craigs list search and found four: Boston, Dayton, Appleton, WI, and Orange County, CA. And this only includes listings that have the "Sea Lancer" model name in 'em. Many folks may not know what model they are listing, so there could be many more.

Andreas

[artman]

I have the boat home, and I am taking the floor ect out to let it dry out. Very Very wet. Looking at your pics I noticed you put new ribs next to the old ribs. is this a better way to go? the whole boat is rotton from the floor down. the port side is still in shape. the starboard side did not fair well bringing it home and is buckeling outward. I will be doing some bracing to push it back into shape. I was planning on taking out each rib and replacing it with a new one. But maybe I should put the new next to the old one. What do you think. I will post a few picks when i get a chance.

[nedL]

I bent the new ribs in next to the old ones, and used the old ones for 'clamping' the new ones in place. As an old one is removed the new one is moved over to the exact location of the old one and riveted in place. New ribs will all end up in the exact location of the old ones.

[artman]

That is great information. About 12 ribs are basically gone at the sharp bend in the hull. the topp and bottom of the ribs are still there. I will look tonight, that might be a easier way for me to replace then other than one at a time.

[Canoeyawl]

Some things its better just to walk away from.
...

[James McMullen]

Unintentionally hilarious quote! :D Well said!

[artman]

Believe me I it has crossed my mind. I guess, I like how much this old boat has got my brain whirling. I like the fact that The boat is my age, and it has been in my life almost all of it. But i will confess, I didn't know my uncle still had it this long, and that he had it tucked away in his backyard. I will keep you all posted on its future.

[artman]

It has been awhile since I last posted. the boat is in the garage. stripped down to the bear bones. since the wood dryed out everything is pretty weak. I have steamed and bent and but inot place all new ribs on teh starbourd side from the transon to the deck. these have been temperarilly screwed in. Now i am out looking for the wood for the keel and other bracing in there. It has been so far a fun project. although it does not look like much to show interested friends. It has been hard to get back in the garage the last few weeks. the winter here in GB has been cold so far.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Good on you for staying with it. This part is the heavy lifting.... once you get this part done, the finishing is the icing.

[floatingkiwi]

Does this boat of yours really exist Artman? Are you capable of using a camera? Just wundrin'.

[artman]

Yes the boat does exist. i am not much of a camer guy. I do have pics. I will make an effort to get them on in the next week.
I have bent new ribs and installed them on the starboard side. I have removed each port side rib and either made a new one, or scarfed on a new piece on to them. so 80% of the ribs are new or redone. the bow section i did not do yet until i can get the boat turned over and remove the bottom plywood. everything that has to do with the keel in side and out is junk. I have finally found a supplier for the hunks of oak I need to start on that part. I am trying to hook up with him and that might be a few weeks.

It has been slow going for me with the holidays and now the cold temps here in Green Bay. I don't turn the heat on in the shop if i am not going to be out that long. I will also be on this forum more for now I need to start networking for information about glues, screws, nails and just about everything else I will need.

[artman]

spent hours trying to figuer out how to post picks to this site. No success. i will keep trying.

[floatingkiwi]

Have you posted the pics firstly, to a site on the web?
Like Shutterfly or something like that?
And the procedure involves posting the URL of the pic and not the pic itself.You will get it. Everyone else does.

[SMARTINSEN]

spent hours trying to figuer out how to post picks to this site. No success. i will keep trying.

Read through this thread and you will have you answers.
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?125747-How-to-post-pictures&p=2859579#post2859579

The best thing is to try it, then ask questions if anything goes wrong or you still have problems. Thorne usually checks in in the morning, I do not know if he is around tonight, you could try a PM.

[tomlarkin]

It has been awhile since I last posted. the boat is in the garage. stripped down to the bear bones.

I found a picture! :d
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/6/69/20100224194829%21BearSkeletonLyd.jpg

[kazeai1969]

You said yourself that your Uncle gave you the boat to restore, not to take to the firepit!
If it still floats and is in one piece, it can be restored. That is my opinion. Others may differ. Why don't you post some pics so that we can see what it is we are talkin about here?

Btw, you wouldn't want to take it apart either, but more replace each piece, a piece at a time so as to preserve hull shape etc.

artman> please note that kerry may be part bionic.....and doesn't like emoticons|:)

[floatingkiwi]

artman> please note that kerry may be part bionic.....and doesn't like emoticons|:)

I.......I....don't ..get it.

[kazeai1969]

I.......I....don't ..get it.

Haha all I meant was with what you've done with what you started with....definitely part machine and capable of much more than your "average man"....

[artman]

http://s1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/

Lets see if this works. here is pics of the boat!

[artman]

Ok, I learned alot and have the pics out there to see. as you can see there is not much to see. in other peoples forums, i think it would have been in the burn section. these pics are dark and do not show much. after spending many years outside and wet, the boat rained paint for weeks as it dried out. I will be asking you (experts) much in the next few months. But I will keep my questions to boats, for after reading other areas of this forum, we have too many experts in un boat topics

[earling2]

What's up with photobucket? Does anybody know? Is it in a holding pattern or something? I have a bunch of stuff on there but it doesn't allow me to log in, and the site looks bare bones, like it's a beta. Is it out of business? And why are the pictures even displayed if their only passport sized? Am I on the mobile device site? Many questions

[tomlarkin]

Works OK for me :-)

You've been busy!
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/100_8465.jpg

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

Photobucket pics worked fine for me.

Looks like a typical Cruisers, Inc. restoration!

Remember the Thomspon Antique & Classic Boat Rally taking place 24-26 June 2011 at Marinette, WI. Cruisers, Inc. is a part of this. No awards and no judging. Lots of restoration stories and networking. Boat rides, food and drink.

Andreas

[artman]

I already have the date wrote down to go. I am looking foward to it. Yes the boat is a basic Cruiser. I think I learned to ski behind this boat. the boat is on hold for a couple of weeks while I do things on my other list of things to do. (have to keep the peace)

[nedL]

Looks great! If you have had the time and ability to get this far & if it hasn't scared you yet I don't think you'll have a problem seeing her to completion. It's nice to see someone else who believes in 'basket cases'. :)

[artman]

I am suprised myself that this has not scared me. I am enjoying the work on it. Having teen age kids this is good therapy. I do a lot of studying what to do next. alone in the shop. this was a father and son project, but the son isn't real interested. He will be more interested when he sees more new wood and less rotton wood on the boat. It also gives me a place to sit and have a beer or two when (family) gets under the skin. I may have to name her ol Therapy!

[artman]

Picked up the white oak for the inside keel and stringers. Snowstorm today. hopefully I will start plaining these down to match the hull this week. there is really nothing left to go by for the original shape of the bottom of these pieces. so i will have to improvise by measurements and guessing.

[floatingkiwi]

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/th_100_8470.jpg
Is there a setting where you keep your pics, that you can use to make the things bigger than this?

[artman]

http://s1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/ (http://s1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/)

Not sure what the photobucket site allows you to do. when I go on there the pics are much bigger.

[Dave Katt]

You can't imagine how much I admire your dedication to this task. I am sure it will be well worth it, when done.

[artman]

Well thank you! Yes, I have a few friends that push me along asking how it is coming, and then saying I'm nuts at the same time. I have people wanting me to scrap it and take on their wood boats. But I want to see if i can make this turn out as good as I invision.

[artman]

Made all the new stringers and inside keel pieces. Big set back. A couple of big warm days here in green bay. My Garage/work shop has filled with water due to all the ice and snow. the old cruiser was standing in four inches of water. spent the last couple nights with a shovel and pumps trying to lower the tide. Nature finally melted the ice enough for the water to run away. I was afraid two of each animal was going to board her and float her out the door.

The water has gone down. Note sweep all saw dust up everyday. all the sawdust turned into thick sludge. looking foward to warmer weather.

[tomlarkin]

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/th_100_8470.jpg
Is there a setting where you keep your pics, that you can use to make the things bigger than this?

Open the full-sized picture and copy the path from there.
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/100_8470.jpg

[floatingkiwi]

I appreciate your attitude.
Set yourself a level of expectation and don't allow anyone or anything disrupt you from achieving that standard.
There are many things in life that are beautiful to behold, but nothing tastes quite as sweet or feels or looks as good,, as something born from sweat, thinking, time, and determination.
Like the rigours and hardship that a rough irregular stone undergos during its tumbling process, so are the challenges we take on for ourselves and through the endurance of such action, like the finished pebble, we shine, and look our best.
Pain and mistakes are a gift as it is through these things that we truly learn, and that, after all is the purpose of our existence.
At least, these are the things I tell myself .
We are only here for a short time and in a few years we will be gone and a few more short years, forgotten. But not the things we leave behind for others to enjoy and appreciate, to carry on from. So do a good job mate.
Good on ya.

[floatingkiwi]

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/100_8469.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/100_8466.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/100_8260.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/100_8259.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/100_8258.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/10Sept16_Cruisers-WoodenBoat33.jpg

[floatingkiwi]

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/10Sept16_Cruisers-WoodenBoat30.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/10Sept16_Cruisers-WoodenBoat28.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/10Sept16_Cruisers-WoodenBoat23.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/Artman496/10Sept16_Cruisers-WoodenBoat1.jpg She is gonna be a beaut mate.