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Phillip Allen
08-08-2010, 02:39 PM
it would seem that I should slow down when measuring trim around my newly installed doors

feel free to laugh...I certainly would :)

Peerie Maa
08-08-2010, 02:41 PM
With out pichurs you are just imagining it.

Phillip Allen
08-08-2010, 02:46 PM
If I show a picture then I'll be gotten after for adding 1/4" pieces...

Peerie Maa
08-08-2010, 02:47 PM
If I show a picture then I'll be gotten after for adding 1/4" pieces...

1 in 12 scarf or finger splices?

Phillip Allen
08-08-2010, 02:50 PM
little chunks...to be filled later and then painted...

Phillip Allen
08-08-2010, 02:51 PM
BTW...I don't do carpenter talk very well...I was a mason

Peerie Maa
08-08-2010, 02:55 PM
Ah, gravity was your friend.

You'll like this then?
http://www.chinese-architecture.info/PEKING/012-Barco_de_marmol_palacio_verano_pekin.jpg

Bobby of Tulsa
08-08-2010, 04:30 PM
BTW...I don't do carpenter talk very well...I was a mason
Phillip, just do them in brick. I know you can do that. :d

bobbys
08-08-2010, 04:32 PM
it would seem that I should slow down when measuring trim around my newly installed doors

feel free to laugh...I certainly would :).

Dont know if i should admit this after being a Carpenter since i wuz 16 but i hold up the piece and mark it, I do not ever use a tape for door trim.

paladin
08-08-2010, 05:12 PM
Serious question, Phillip....but you may think rather silly.....If you lay up a wall, I assume that poured concrete will be stronger than cinder block......what would it take, block wise, to build a wall using mortar and block, with perhaps reinforcement, compared to poured reinforced cement.

I have a location that would be extremely difficult to get to with a cement truck, but block can be hauled in a couple hundred at a time.

LongIslandBoy
08-08-2010, 05:19 PM
BTW...I don't do carpenter talk very well...I was a mason

What degree?;)

Mrleft8
08-08-2010, 05:32 PM
Yanno Chuck, they got these new trucks that can go almost anywhere, and mix exactly what you need right on site.... Excellent for tight quarters.

Phillip Allen
08-08-2010, 05:36 PM
What degree?;)

depends on the season

Phillip Allen
08-08-2010, 05:38 PM
Serious question, Phillip....but you may think rather silly.....If you lay up a wall, I assume that poured concrete will be stronger than cinder block......what would it take, block wise, to build a wall using mortar and block, with perhaps reinforcement, compared to poured reinforced cement.

I have a location that would be extremely difficult to get to with a cement truck, but block can be hauled in a couple hundred at a time.

I suspect block will be cheper but I don't really know...many variables

paladin
08-08-2010, 06:08 PM
I understand cheaper...not the point...I want the wall equally strong, as a supporting structure......what will be the comparative dimensions for an equally strong wall.

Peerie Maa
08-08-2010, 06:18 PM
There is a good telly series on over here about unusual top end house builds. One was buried in and old quarry, roof grassed over and all, so that all you could see was one front wall of glass. The two stories of earth retaining wall were built out of a high density block, cast with two holes running through them. When laid in a bond these holes lined up allowing rebar to be dropped in and a small amount of concrete was then needed poured in around the rebar to tie the whole lot together. The blocks were heavy though, so hauling them in would be a chore.

Stiletto
08-08-2010, 06:39 PM
Chuck, Here in NZ blocks known as bondbeams would be used in your situation. I am sure they are available in the US too.
They are laid in the normal way and the webs are then knocked out, reinforcing tied in and concrete/grout poured into them.
1006

Phillip Allen
08-08-2010, 07:02 PM
I understand cheaper...not the point...I want the wall equally strong, as a supporting structure......what will be the comparative dimensions for an equally strong wall.

I prolly can't answer properly...but...
how long is the wall?
how tall is the wall?
minimum thickness and maximum thickness?
what will it be supporting if anything?
free standing or supporting something and with or without corners?
below grade parts?
anything else?

Phillip Allen
08-08-2010, 07:04 PM
Chuck, Here in NZ blocks known as bondbeams would be used in your situation. I am sure they are available in the US too.
They are laid in the normal way and the webs are then knocked out, reinforcing tied in and concrete/grout poured into them.
1006

we'll get to that when enough information is known (we call them bondbeams as well)

Larks
08-08-2010, 07:09 PM
Chuck, in Darwin for cyclone coding we'd build our besser block (you call them cinder block) walls with reo bar up the middle every @1200mm or so and beside every opening and core fill them with cement all the way from the base to the top then add a bondbeam accross the top as in Steletto's post, pretty much as strong as a solid concrete wall.

"H" blocks are easier to fill:

http://materialsintheraw.com.au/media/brochures/How%20to%20Build%20a%20Reinforced%20Besser%20Block %20Retaining%20Wall.pdf

Phillip Allen
08-08-2010, 07:13 PM
Chuck, in Darwin for cyclone coding we'd build our besser block (you call them cinder block) walls with reo bar up the middle every @1200mm or so and beside every opening and core fill them with cement all the way from the base to the top then add a bondbeam accross the top as in Steletto's post, pretty much as strong as a solid concrete wall.

"H" blocks are easier to fill:

http://materialsintheraw.com.au/media/brochures/How%20to%20Build%20a%20Reinforced%20Besser%20Block %20Retaining%20Wall.pdf

pretty standard here...every sixth cell is poured/rebar
a bondbeam every 4 feet of lift...roughly every 120 cm (or 140 cm...your blocks, being metric, lay-up 20 cm/course)

I have built with more and less according to what the engineers wanted

The Bigfella
08-08-2010, 07:18 PM
Hey Phillip.... if its a tad too long, I've discovered a new way to shorten it....

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Vietnam%20and%20Cambodia/DSC_0185.jpg

Phillip Allen
08-08-2010, 07:21 PM
junk gun... :)

Phillip Allen
08-08-2010, 07:22 PM
impressive firing line cover though

Shang
08-08-2010, 07:24 PM
Not sure how we got onto block walls, but there is a better way. Styrofoam forms with rebars, into which concrete is poured to form the walls. That's what we used in the addition to the lake house. The mfgr. claims it stands up to a 170 mph. wind, and resists fire. It also has a great R-factor. We had the 170 wind two years ago, and it worked.
NOT a DYI project... it takes an experienced crew to do this.

http://www.bobmccranie.com/A55656/bobmccranie.nsf/3004cd8a447bb5b486256caa0011c301/a9404deba9fd1bbf852574d3001b0c1e/Body/189.20AA?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

The Bigfella
08-08-2010, 07:44 PM
junk gun... :)

I hadn't realised how small the cartridge was. Has achieved some impressive results though.

Incidentally, I saw a very nice cut-off one of these rifles, slung over the shoulder of a policeman riding pillion on a scooter - at 2am one morning in Hanoi. I followed him for several blocks, but couldn't work up the courage to snap off a photo.

SamSam
08-08-2010, 07:57 PM
I understand cheaper...not the point...I want the wall equally strong, as a supporting structure......what will be the comparative dimensions for an equally strong wall.
As Phillip said in post #18.

Also, they can pump concrete a good distance, or crane in buckets. It really depends on the logistics of the situation. Like 1 concrete pump truck is the equivalent of x amount of low rent laborers. If you can get a few hundred block there at a time that must mean you can get a truck in.

As far as comparative strength, this site says
Poured concrete is three times (3x) stronger and resists water infiltration better than block. Poured concrete also offers a faster building cycle than block.. Well, I lost the actual site, so forget that. But what the site was talking about was 'Insulated concrete forms'. http://www.google.com/images?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=insulated+concrete+forms&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=uE1fTLKEC8OB8gbCpZG6DQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CEMQsAQwAw&biw=1280&bih=617
What's sort of slick is you can continue this stuff right up for the structure walls also and stucco or Dryvit the inside and outside.

Well, ****fire. Drink a beer or two and by the time I post, it's old news.

Stiletto
08-08-2010, 08:20 PM
Any wall will require a substantial footing that usually has to be poured, so you are back where you started.

paladin
08-08-2010, 10:18 PM
What I am interested in is a new "tornado proof" house or cellar using the above ground part on a sloping lot...it's on the side of a hill, a long sloping one, so the water will run off. There's a natural spring nearby so wells are no problem, and the ground perks well. The lot is relatively cheap about 5 miles from here but this area is sorta know for tornadoes...I have had one last year about 200 yards away and took out the local rest. and some of the other beach houses. They want a half mil for a house similar to what I have closer in to Annapolis. I figure for the half mil I can do a helluva lot better, same size house and still hire a nurse 3 days a week for dialysis.

gibetheridge
08-08-2010, 10:38 PM
http://www.sipsproducts.com/icf/Boom%20Truck.jpg

http://image.ec21.com/img/ec/no_image_t_x.gif

It's pretty hilly and rocky along the waterfront here, we often cannot get the redimix truck anywhere near the form work, so we call in one of these. It drives straight in. The boom goes forward and the redimix truck backs up and unloads into a hopper at the aft end of the truck. A good operator can control the volume to the point that just one man can handle the end of the hose. A bad operator and it's like trying to hang on to the end of the trunk of a pissed off drunk bull elephant.

I don't trust block retaining walls, I've seen too many of them with top to bottom zigzag cracks.

Larks
08-08-2010, 11:03 PM
You want, or need, poured concrete not laid block.

'big call Paul, try telling that to every house in Northern Australia that has to be built to very strict cyclone code. The process I mentioned above is the standard for housing in the cyclone belt, poured concrete walls and tilt slabs are pretty much reserved for commercial buildings.

The issue with cyclones is more to do with lift and lateral stability, keeping the roof on and the walls standing upright than it is to do with making them bullet proof. so the roof has to be well anchored to the slab/footings and the walls need to be sufficiently braced. It is still possible to build a framed house in a cyclone area, using plasterboard/drywall interior and a clad exterior other than brick, as long as it is suitably braced and tied down, as was my last house in Darwin, however I'd feel safer in a core filled besser bloc/cinder block building. There is certainly still the risk of flying debris to be worried about.

Iceboy
08-09-2010, 08:08 AM
Not to hijack here but that junk gun has probably killed more than any other in history. I have a couple and they are great fun to shoot. Cheap too with surplus ammo. I have even managed to get one of them to be fairly accurate.

Phillip Allen
08-09-2010, 09:49 AM
Not to hijack here but that junk gun has probably killed more than any other in history. I have a couple and they are great fun to shoot. Cheap too with surplus ammo. I have even managed to get one of them to be fairly accurate.

still junk though...can't be made to shoot well...it'll go off for sure but not much more than that. the public is mistaken to compare military weapons with civilian weapons...they are designed with much different parameters in mind...much like apples and oranges

Iceboy
08-10-2010, 11:25 AM
Phillip, I think this guy would disagree. http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=122&t=31796 Sure it's not a 1 moa hunting rifle but it can be made as accurate as any other auto. I suggest you take one out for a spin sometime. Jim...

Phillip Allen
08-10-2010, 11:31 AM
Phillip, I think this guy would disagree. http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=122&t=31796 Sure it's not a 1 moa hunting rifle but it can be made as accurate as any other auto. I suggest you take one out for a spin sometime. Jim...

I did...brand new from Russia...didn't like it

don't confuse what is desirable for military purpose with what is desirable for comercial use

Iceboy
08-10-2010, 12:44 PM
Glad you tried it. I have a few from different sources/countries. They really vary a lot. Not quite sure what you're getting at with "desireable for commercial use". I wouldn't hunt with one of these if that's what you are getting at. I am sure that anything that will kill a human would have little trouble killing your average size whitetail. I simply use mine for fooling around at the range, shredding objects and making noise. Got a couple in my bug out sack as well. They are well designed for thier intended use. Even your average fool could field strip one in less than a minute. I can personally vouch for the fact that they will operate under conditions that would render most other firearms into junk. They can be put together out of parts on the battlefield. Perhaps this needs to be moved to the how long would you last thread:)

Phillip Allen
08-10-2010, 01:45 PM
Glad you tried it. I have a few from different sources/countries. They really vary a lot. Not quite sure what you're getting at with "desireable for commercial use". I wouldn't hunt with one of these if that's what you are getting at. I am sure that anything that will kill a human would have little trouble killing your average size whitetail. I simply use mine for fooling around at the range, shredding objects and making noise. Got a couple in my bug out sack as well. They are well designed for thier intended use. Even your average fool could field strip one in less than a minute. I can personally vouch for the fact that they will operate under conditions that would render most other firearms into junk. They can be put together out of parts on the battlefield. Perhaps this needs to be moved to the how long would you last thread:)

I am not interested in the military uses of my firearms...competition/hunting/plinking/farm use and so on...what the military needs is what you describe in your post I have quoted...not the same parameters I use and for good reasons...there is no argument so long as we don't compare the AK types to something like a 700 Remington or the like

Iceboy
08-11-2010, 07:11 AM
"there is no argument so long as we don't compare the AK types to something like a 700 Remington or the like[/QUOTE]

No problem. Had no plans to go in that direction. Cheers.

paladin
08-11-2010, 08:19 AM
My personal bugout weapons are a high standard .22, and a companion Browning take apart .22 rifle. You can carry a helluva lotta ammo and still nail anything within 150 yards if you take your time. Also, with just a tiny bit of effort, they are as quiet as all get out, so then they have to determine where the shot came from. Also in the pack are several "space blankets" super good when you are hiding from I.R. equipment.

Phillip Allen
08-11-2010, 08:30 AM
My personal bugout weapons are a high standard .22, and a companion Browning take apart .22 rifle. You can carry a helluva lotta ammo and still nail anything within 150 yards if you take your time. Also, with just a tiny bit of effort, they are as quiet as all get out, so then they have to determine where the shot came from. Also in the pack are several "space blankets" super good when you are hiding from I.R. equipment.

I agree...(a lot can be said for CB caps too)

paladin
08-11-2010, 01:37 PM
I like cb caps for small game, but I also like the idea of one ammo only. The Fiochi ammo from Italy is subsonic.

chas
08-11-2010, 01:48 PM
My personal bugout weapon will be an able boat to take me up the coast aways more. You guys with the guns aren't comin' up here anytime soon, are ya'? LOL / Jim

paladin
08-11-2010, 02:47 PM
No...but I have another boat on the drawing board....if I live long enough to finish it...probably pi$$ off the kids who think I'm gonna leave everything to them....I have a couple that only call once or twice a year to see if I'm still alive. I had one to call their aunt to check on me but couldn't take the time to call me directly....I suspect their mom was behind it...they have already spent the inheritance from the other gramma....

The Bigfella
08-11-2010, 04:34 PM
150 yards is stretching it a bit for a .22

paladin
08-11-2010, 04:47 PM
Dunno...try one of the replacement barrels for the 10/22 and you can get everything into a 5 inch circle and that's the size of a man's head. We tried a sandbagged rest and a carbon fibre stock and the 22 inch replacement barrel and could get 5-5 1/2 inches at 165 meters at Quantico using a Leopold 4x40 scope.

Phillip Allen
08-11-2010, 05:19 PM
I have made predictable hits on a wooden crate (four foot square) at 400 yards...got to hold the rifle like a mortar

paladin
08-11-2010, 07:03 PM
I did that with my Browning at 200 yards....we had a 55 gal drum at about 20 yards past the 200 yard mark at the Navy small arms range....it was a game to see if you could drop an M-79 round in the drum...and guys were whacking at it with M-16's and I would sit back while they were reloading and fire one round, wait a bit and hear it hit the drum...repeat etc...it was neat waiting for the time delay from the 9mm firing until the round pinged the drum....you had to aim about 4 feet over the barrel with the Browning.

B_B
08-11-2010, 10:04 PM
Chuck, Here in NZ blocks known as bondbeams would be used in your situation. I am sure they are available in the US too.
They are laid in the normal way and the webs are then knocked out, reinforcing tied in and concrete/grout poured into them.
1006

Not sure how we got onto block walls, but there is a better way. Styrofoam forms with rebars, into which concrete is poured to form the walls. That's what we used in the addition to the lake house. The mfgr. claims it stands up to a 170 mph. wind, and resists fire. It also has a great R-factor. We had the 170 wind two years ago, and it worked.
http://www.bobmccranie.com/A55656/bobmccranie.nsf/3004cd8a447bb5b486256caa0011c301/a9404deba9fd1bbf852574d3001b0c1e/Body/189.20AA?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif
NOT a DYI project... it takes an experienced crew to do this.
Both of these methods, if done correctly, will still require a lot of poured concrete.
For the time and effort one may be better off to just build a properly reinforced concrete retaining wall.
Only way to tell would be to get quotes.
I've seen too many cinder block basement walls caving in to ever trust one.
The styrofoam forms are very neat, very expensive. They'd be my choice if insulation was an issue and cost wasn't.